I drive a Magna Exec 1993 (v4) TR, I'm a woman who knows at a little bit about mechanical things--a very little. ;-)

Clutch hydrolics went so one mechanic replaced the master and slave cylinders and she drove okay for a while, but had been slipping previously. Then, she went entirely. Over rev'ing barely able to get moving out of first, so a new clutch was put in by another mechanic. They put in a new Exedy clutch kit, which was my first choice, or it would have been a PBR.

Picked her up today. The clutch peddle is really light, hardly any resistance, certainly not like it had been previously. Drove the first 4km okay, a bit of slipping and over rev'ing. I put it down to driver error. Sure. Fine. BUT then I go to take off at traffic lights and its grinding into first. Each light, each stop where she's idling for a little while and its more like 'if you can't find em, grind em'!

So, what could they have done wrong? Is it a simple job of a minor adjustment, as they've just told me on the phone, or am I looking at bad workmanship (hope not) or it is a sign the gearbox needs work (I really hope not!)

Thanks heaps to Madmagna on here for the email convo and pricing earlier this week. Wish I could have gotten her across to you for the clutch.

Any advice? Suggestion? Thanks for the op to rant ;)

Jules

More details. Took the car for a run down the Eastern freeway. Got off of the freeway, made way back along Doncaster Road, stopping at lights, idling, back onto freeway for another long stretch and pulled off and parked on the bus parking area near the freeway there. Let her idle for 5-10 mins, turned off the engine for another 5-min and then started up and started driving.

As soon as the car has heated and been running, driving, for a while, when I have to take off at lights or use first gear in any way, it grinds and chunks.

The clutch had to be replaced because as it heated, after only 15-mins driving, I was losing 1st and 2nd gear, the car was over rev'ing trying to go. Now, with the new clutch, after 15-mins of driving it still feels and sounds like the clutch (gears) are slipping and when out of gear trying to get back into 1st is a b&tch.

Was it the clutch, or is it the gear box? I rang the crowd here in Mitcham who installed the clutch, putting in a new Exedy and put on four new Hancook Optimos, they think it may need a simple adjustment. :/

Hi Jules,


There is an adjustment to be made, although should have been done when it was put in.. basically you adjust the pedal "Free play" which also adjusts the start and stop points for the clutch position.


Simple test you can do.. get down and use your hand to gently push the clutch pedal.. you should be able to feel some "Free play" i.e. it's loose for a little bit then you feel it start to take up (when car is off is fine)..

If it has none, then the clutch will not be properly engaging and causing these problems, if it does have freeplay then that won't be the problem. It should be more than 1 cm I forget the exact measurement I think its roughly 1-2cm is the standard


On mine it was starting to slip when i put my foot down when the freeplay was gone. The opposite end of this adjustment, if there is TOO MUCH free play.. then you won't be fully disengaging the clutch which can cause it to grind trying to get into gear... so bit weird to have both..


What I really recommend you do since you seem to be in Victoria.. is go see MadMagna he is well known and seems to know what he is doing and won't mess you around and knows Magna's inside out.


You can find him here:
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75228



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Hi Lathiat,

Thanks for the info and the quick test. The clutch peddle doesn't have any free-play after testing it out. So hopefully a slight adjustment today will have it all fixed, am about to head off to them now. I love the tyres though, the best handling I''ve had in the car for a quite a while.

I've spoken with MadMagna in emails this week, he was really nice and answered a lot of questions. Wishing now that I'd been able to get the car to him instead of going for this crowd only three blocks from home, would have had far more confidence in the work carried out if I had. But I know where I'll be taking the car from now on for all other work and services! ;-)

Sounds great Jules, good luck!

sounds to me like 1) pedal free play adjustment 2) possibly have the system bled so that all air is out of the system. It is the only way I could imagine slipping and then the clutch not fully operating (Crunch on 1st gear shift - hopefully the syncro is still ok)

Just as an update for those curious, the issue stems with the pivot ball, the clutch pedal adjustment and also the fact that the installer put a longer push rod in. I have the car here, when in 3rd the clutch slips badly

I have recomended Jules take it back AGAIN and tell them to fix it and replace the clutch at their expense due to the slipping being so bad. I took the car to my Exedy supplier and they confirmed my thoughts and also stated that she should demand a new clutch.

The pedal is rock hard from the get go, in other words no toe play at all, not even a mm. When the clutch slave is removed the fork is under so much pressure from the longer push rod it comes back about 5mm thus the bearning is under constant heavy load

Hopefully they will fix it for Jules this time

If there was air in the system, it would not slip at all as the pressure plate would not pull back all the way due to lack of pressure from the air.

The longer push rod was most likely put in to compensate for wear on the pivot ball and socket in the release lever. This approach does not work (obviously) as it stuffs up the angles of the working components as well as the clutch not releasing correctly because the lever hits the trans housing when you depress the clutch. The ball and lever need to be replaced (pricey) or the ball needs to be shimmed up with one or two 2mm thick washers (much cheaper), in conjunction with the standard push rod. The clutch kit I installed last year came with instructions to do the above, ie compensate for wear with washers (Valeo kit IIRC). I wrote this up last year.

Original mechanic is obviously not familiar with this wear related problem, ie not a Mitsu workshop mech. Using a longer pushrod probably works in a rear wheel drive car, where there is more room in the bell housing. The car should never have left the workshop like that, they now owe the car's owner a new clutch and a repeat of the install labour.

If the workshop refuses to rectify this problem, the owner may need to get the problem sorted at a Mitsu dealer at her expense. If the situation is explained to the workshop manager he may be willing to document the mistakes made and the damage done. She can then seek financial compensation in the Small Claims Court.

Thanks for the update MadMagna always good to hear some updates on such things.

I noticed some wear on the pivot rod on my 3rd gen.. maybe a mm or so.. does that tend cause any issues? Or only the ball on the 2nd gen thats notorious for it?

Second gen has a push type clutch, third gen has a pull type design. No comparison, really. Third gen clutch doesn't have the same wear induced problem.

Hi guys,

As Mal has mentioned, I was able to get to car to him and he's done some other work for me and given great feedback on what the first mechanics screwed up.

What was interesting, I rang them immediately after leaving the shop with the car following the new clutch install and let them know the problems, that it was stil slipping. When I took it back I also let them know it was pulling to the right when excelerating and really pulling, or grabbing, to the left as soon as you backed off the excelerator. They diagnosed it to be a wheel-bearing, and that their wheel alignment was spot on. The replacement wheel bearing was what I had it booked in with Mal to have replaced. Instead it turned out to be the steering rack. Big difference.

The car goes back to the original crowd on Wednesday for their mechanics to diagnose the problem with the clutch install. Driving it tonight was a nightmare. Stalling at take-off getting used to the new release point, feeling like there was no clutch at all. I won't be holding my breath that they will give me a new clutch, unless they can convince their supplier that the clutch itself was faulty and not the installation by their mechanics. Another complication--the car was driven for two weeks, near to 500km with the clutch being in the state they had installed it. I now know that the hot metallic smell I smelt after a few of the driving trips may have been the flywheel overheating, which may have caused cracking. Or so it was explained to me as being a possibility.

I may well be writing down the feedback you've all given, so that when I speak with the first crowd I'll be able to let their mechanic know what needs to be done. As MadMax has mentioned above, however, they may simply have no idea of what needs to be done. Sadly, I can't afford to have another mechanic redo the entire thing at my expense.

Wish me luck, I may need it!

Jules

Take it from me, he has no idea what he is doing, otherwise he would have done it first up. He didn't test drive the car after the install, otherwise he would never have let you drive off. Also, he doesn't need to "diagnose the problem", just tell him about the washers needed under the ball to compensate for wear. If he has half a brain his little eyes will light up with sudden insight. I hope he still has the original pushrod.

By the way, ask him if his work has a guarantee or warranty on it.

If I sound a bit annoyed at this situation, it's only because I have been through this process, ie replacing a worn clutch and finding out there's more to it than just replacing bits, and I had to pull it all apart again to do the washer trick. As is, you have a mechanic lacking in experience and knowledge (at least as far as this problem is concerned) and you will simply end up with a car that cannot be driven at all, so yes, I wish you GOOD LUCK!

By the way, ask him if his work has a guarantee or warranty on it.

I'm trying to be positive and not too pissy as to the work they've carried out so far, which included four new tyres and a wheel alignment, during which they didn't notice that the bald front left tyre may be an indication that something was wrong? That their wheel alignment couldn't be 'spot on' if there was free play in that wheel? That they didn't even notice the free play? I'm a girl and I knew that! Okay, sorry, I said I wouldn't get too sarcastic about it all. (But it felt good to vent).

I will be asking them to redo their entire work, at their expense and to correct any problems it may have caused. ie. the flywheel and not merely mechaning it. My problem will be, that short of having another mechanic take out the clutch to inspect it, I will have no way of knowing if they have replaced this clutch or the flywheel and will may have to take their word for it. :-/

Nothing like a good sarcastic vent, is there? I do it all the time!

You will know that they have fixed the problem because the clutch will behave itself!

(Could you ask them to take photographs of the job being done so you can see it has been done properly?)

I was wondering if I could ask them to take photos, but figured no mechanic would do that. Would they? Could they? Would it be too rude and untrustworthy to ask? I'd almost be willing to leave my camera with them for them to use!

Thanks for clarifying my mistake on the air in the system MadMagna, I was thinking of two faults that as you pointed out can't really co-inside with each other, will check that issue when I do my 5spd conversion (Wear and shim it up)

Final update on the clutch situation.

The car went back to the original mechanics this morning and after discussion upon the work carried out I was offered and accepted a full refund on the clutch installation costs, parts and labour, which frees me to be able to take the car elsewhere to have a new clutch installed. A very good outcome, without any hard feelings on either side.

Thanks, everyone, for your feedback and suggestions, they were all extremely helpful!

Jules

Ho Hum. Back to Square One! Take it to a Mitsu dealer.

Ho Hum. Back to Square One! Take it to a Mitsu dealer.

Why to a mitsu dealer when the person who has had made it drivable can keep an eye on it and can do it properly when needed

I have backed off the clutch pedal about 15mm on the adjustment to give it some toe play and is so much better now

given the stress it has been through it will most likely be ok for now but certainly will not last as long as you would expect a clutch to last but having said that jules has been refunded by the place so is not out of pocket and this may still out last the car anyway

Oh good. I didn't know you had sorted it.

this may still out last the car anyway

Hey, don't go jinxing my car on me!

If not an entirely new clutch being installed it would seem I may well have to have someone (Mal) remove this current new one and reinstall it as it is slipping quite noticeably. As long as I don't mind over-reving, losing power/speed going up hill etc, then I could possibly leave it as is, but...

Have also noticed ware on the new tyres, which are only three weeks old. Both front tyres are showing ware marks on the outside edges, more noticable and wider on the left than the right. Apparently a wheel alignment was not carried out when they were installed.