my mate with his 2002 tj got a wheel alinment today and siad it was way out and they could not get it right and say he needs some sort of pins put in to adjust the camber more
its out by 70
the car has had a hit in the front in the past
now i take it somthing ois bent to cause this is it just a case of replacing the control arms?
i know nothing when it comes to steering to help me out he got quoted 115 per pin
thanks to anyone which can help

Id say for $70 they will be changing the two or even one of the pins in the base of the strut towers. Usually after a car has had a decent hit you will find it will never be straight again. Doesnt mean thats a bad thing but when they wheel align it will pic up the differance down to the mm. You wont need to replace arms unless it is way way out. Id say the camber bolts will do just fine if its only a pinch out. If they are offering camber bolts im assuming its not to bad and that will correct it.

all i know is they siad he needed after market pins which is 115 per side so 230 for the front if that helps the 70 was what it is out by with no more adjustment avaliable

Camber adjustment is measured in degrees. To have his car reading 70 would mean his wheel is laying almost completely flat on the road. Camber pins will not resolve this issue. It may be reading 7 degrees positive which would cause the car to handle terribly and a set of camber pins could sort it out. $110 a side is a bit steep but if that quote is for fitting and a re-check/adjustment of the alignment then it's not to bad.

yeah must be 7 deg out

camber bolts that go in the lower strut bolts place will give you a maximum adjustment of 1.5 degrees. he may have meant its out by 70%, but thats a pretty retarded thing to say. Camber bolts from whilteline are a max of 70 bucks (35 per side.) its a 10 minute job to put them in, and 5 mins to align them properly.

and 7 degrees out is massive. like more than double a really cambered out street car.

any one got a link so i can order these i think it was 7 out not 70
might see what mal reckons

camber bolts that go in the lower strut bolts place will give you a maximum adjustment of 1.5 degrees.

Depending on what kit you buy some can adjust up to 3 or 4 degrees


its a 10 minute job to put them in, and 5 mins to align them properly.

It's a 10 minute job to install them but once you do it throws out your toe adjustment and then you need a proper alignment done on a machine.


and 7 degrees out is massive. like more than double a really cambered out street car.

If the camber is positive then no street car should be running it. Positive camber is when the top of the wheel is leaning out and negative is when the top of the tyre is leaning in as you would see on a race car.

Most street cars should be adjusted to run about -1.0 to -1.5 degrees of camber with toe adjusted to suit.

ive sent madmagna a pm to get a clear answer thanks guys

Depending on what kit you buy some can adjust up to 3 or 4 degrees



It's a 10 minute job to install them but once you do it throws out your toe adjustment and then you need a proper alignment done on a machine.



If the camber is positive then no street car should be running it. Positive camber is when the top of the wheel is leaning out and negative is when the top of the tyre is leaning in as you would see on a race car.

Most street cars should be adjusted to run about -1.0 to -1.5 degrees of camber with toe adjusted to suit.

i know all about camber, i was just saying to give an idea of the degree of camber, not the direction.

also, never seen a camber bolt or pin that gives 4 degrees of adjustment, and a good Tyre shop like the one i used to work at will take about 5 minutes to get the to in and out set per Tyre, depends on whether they have laser alignment tools or if they do it other ways. setting the camber with the bolt can take longer to get tight because they dont have a precise adjustment. The only way to get front wheel adjustment of over 2-2.5 degrees is to use camber tops, these cost around 500 for a decent set. as you probably know


Most street cars should be adjusted to run about -1.0 to -1.5 degrees of camber with toe adjusted to suit.
and hence the "more than double a really cambered out" street car

and here is a link (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Alfa-145-Nolathane-Front-Camber-Adjustable-Bolts-12mm-/220601646219?cmd=ViewItem&pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item335ce1fc8b) i THINK that a magna uses 12mm bolts!!! but i cant be 100%

I really doubt you'd be running 7 degrees camber in any direction. According to Google, this is an example (http://www.autorush.com/gallery/MagneticMinis070905/IMG_0024.jpg) of a vehicle running -10deg camber. It's not 70 minutes (I think that's the terminology?)? That would make it 1-and-a-bit degrees out, which would be much more reasonable.

thanks guys somthing seems a bit odd about what this tyre shop was on about i might have to go down with my mate and find out for my self
yeah going by that pic at 10 deg out ha ha ha no way his wouls be 7 out then maybe its 0.7of a deg out and no more adjust ment avaliable

What was the tyre wear like before the alignment?
Was it that bad?

70 what? Assuming it was minutes. Magna recommends 0 deg + - 30 min Camber at front (depending on Model of course). If you have or purchase or manufacture a Camber board, use degrees only, bit easier to calculate using trigonometric formulas. The reading should then be + 0.5 deg to - 0,5 deg. Personally I stay away from any amount of positive, to keep cornering decent. But wouldn't go past -1 deg to keep it reasonably steady on flat roads with deep grooves - these beautiful Austrailan roads.
This assuminig the rear is in order to start with....
Camber tops are easier to to use and adjust than pins. Adjusting pins require removing the wheel, estimating camber change when suspension is unloaded etc. Hardly a 5 min job. Diff story when taken to a work shop, but then you have no input and cannot monitor work quality.

here is my print out i got mine done today same thing telling me i need camber bolts
tell me what you think
http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/2560/ccf2505201000000.th.jpg (http://img710.imageshack.us/i/ccf2505201000000.jpg/)

It is in deg, RH is .55 so not bad, the LH however either you have a bent lower control arm or the machine is out

It is in deg, RH is .55 so not bad, the LH however either you have a bent lower control arm or the machine is out
what about the rear

hey mal so what is the chances of my mates and my car both having camber out like this is it common for machines to be out
i have no problems going somewhere else just dont want to waste money if i dont have to
unfortuanitlly my mate did not get a print out but was told to get camber pins like me

Both cars had the same camber issues on the same side, same corner?

You'd have to say it's the machine at fault. Go somewhere else to check. Call first to see when they last calibrated their gear. If they can't answer that go someplace else.

Or the head of the machine may have been recently dropped, not put on the wheel correctly etc etc, see this all the time

As I said in the PM< I refuse to use these bolts as in my opinion and in the opinion of a few big name suspension people, these can be dangerous especially if not adjusted correctly in the future, if you have a camber problem, especially only on the one side, then the chances are you have something bent

if you have a camber problem, especially only on the one side, then the chances are you have something bent
My front wheels are both over -1deg camber. Do you think my camber level is reasonable for a car with King Lows (35k old) and 18" rims? I do a bit of highway driving, which in Queensland, is murder on suspension; but I've never been in a prang. My suspension shop recommended a camber kit, but I don't want to install one if something else is the problem...

My front wheels are both over -1deg camber. Do you think my camber level is reasonable for a car with King Lows (35k old) and 18" rims? I do a bit of highway driving, which in Queensland, is murder on suspension; but I've never been in a prang. My suspension shop recommended a camber kit, but I don't want to install one if something else is the problem...

So you've got just over 1 degree negative camber without the help of camber bolts? Nice. I paid good money for bolts, then strut tops to achieve the same thing! I'd leave it alone if it's not causing problems as it's probably where most people here will put there's given the option.

So you've got just over 1 degree negative camber without the help of camber bolts? Nice. I paid good money for bolts, then strut tops to achieve the same thing!
My suspension shop suggested a camber kit to set it back to zero, but when I did some research on camber, I decided against it lol

There's still *some* difference between left and right (about 20" if I recall correctly) and the camber has increased over time (used to be -0.5deg on an older alignment, but on my old rims), so Mal's comment got me worried that something might be broken. Still drives fine though...

yeah just been to two suspension shops nothing is bent or worn he siad that the set up i got is really good
same thing both siad if you really want to get camber bolts but advised me not worth the effort and as its not that bad
so ill see how the tyres wear in a couple of months see what i get

Everybody perceives variations differently – my mate considers my car very hard and uncomfortable, where as his Magna is std and wobbles like an Ocean Liner. You might prefer the car to drive in this manner – who knows. And it’s your car and so forth. And it also depends on other suspension mods like stabilisers etc and tyres. For example, stiff rear stab makes steering more responsive or even agile.
But what I said before and add some more.

Front camber variations might cause the vehicle to steer to one side more than the other. I prefer less than -1 deg camber to make it less “drifty” on uneven (99% of our roads). Such low suspension doesn’t compress much so it’s not gonna change much (to more neg) in cornering (subject to other mods) as per the geometric design.
There might be no bent suspension parts, but perhaps bushes are worn/damaged.
The front toe seems very good. But depends on how you want the car to behave and do you have rear stab? Toe out makes car to steer in more responsive manner but makes it also less stable on straight. I prefer very minor toe in with my mods.

Your rear camber looks bit excessive too, but it aids with stability and wears tyres on the inside more. Can only be changed with spacers and discussed on various posts.
Rear toe looks bad. It should not be out, but 0 or bit in. Toe out makes the car restless.

Do what you can to improve the values to specs above. Obv you’d need camber kits at front and back. Both front and rear toes are adjustable. Best is to get some equipment and learn to do this your self, you’ll get what you want and learn to tune your suspension to your preference.