Noticed that there are signs displayed above bowsers advising that Shell Unleaded will be changed to E10 and the price will be adjusted accordingly. This is in Sydney Eastern Suburbs, so don't know if similar notices are being displayed nationally.

Are other fuel companies doing the same!

yeah a lot of the fuel company's such as wollies are changing to just E10 and getting rid of the standard unleaded not including the unleaded 95 and 98 premiums which they will prob jack up in price just because they can

At one stage a couple of years ago I thought they were required to by a certain date, but I hadn't heard any more on it since then.

Isn't E10 95 octane already? Why keep 95 standard unleaded if that is the case?

Something to keep note of with Shell E10 as opposed to other brands. Ethenol actually boosts octane, so most distributers are using crappy fuel to begin with (sub-90 octane) before mixing. I will gladly use Shell E10.

What is the octane rating of Shell Unleaded E10?
Shell Unleaded E10 has a minimum 94 octane rating, much higher than the Federal Government mandated minimum of 91 octane for regular unleaded fuels.

Edit @Madmax, most are 91 octane due to the above.

Wouldn't touch that E10 stuff if you paid me. As said above, they start with a very low grade of petrol, then mix it with other stuff to get the octane rating of 94 or 91. What do you think happens when the ethanol breaks down in the fuel?

ok, thanks. E10 = 91 octane minimum.

Wouldn't touch that E10 stuff if you paid me. As said above, they start with a very low grade of petrol, then mix it with other stuff to get the octane rating of 94 or 91. What do you think happens when the ethanol breaks down in the fuel?

zactly, gives them excuse to provide poor fuel and ad stuff to make it seem better (even though its just crap to begin with)

it is due to government regulation

It said so on the sticker on the bowser

V power FTW!!!!!!!

I used the Shell E10 for 6 months when it was first introduced, and I found it cost me more for less kilometres. I keep pretty stringent records on cost and fuel consumption. I would love to use V Power, but can't afford the cost.

I think with K Rudd taking the Environment Policy off the table, that a lot of these things that are down to be introduced can be delayed.

...unleaded 95 and 98 premiums which they will prob jack up in price just because they can

with woolworths fuel, the 95 is ALWAYS 9c more than the unleaded and 98 is ALWAYS 14c more, so you may see it go down if anything, plus 95 is the least used fuel, atleast where i work, its either 91 or 98.

I ran E10 fuel in my car, Nothing has happened over the last 12 months Oh Wait it has here is what i found.

1, 2 Fuel filters
2, 6 New injectors
3, New Cat
4, Burnt out exhaust
5, New Rear bumber from burning hot from the exhaust tip
6, 450kms or average fuel consumption around 15.6l/100kms

Theres sumone who has tested for ya and all up ive spent $1000 on parts. Thanks Mr E10 fuel This has been done with United 98. As united are the only sellers of E10 fuel in tasmania Since using BP unleaded cars is around 11 - 13 l/100km. I dont use Bp fuel all the time i use caltex and Shell aswel and havent found any problems yet :)

I ran E10 fuel in my car, Nothing has happened over the last 12 months Oh Wait it has here is what i found.

1, 2 Fuel filters
2, 6 New injectors
3, New Cat
4, Burnt out exhaust
5, New Rear bumber from burning hot from the exhaust tip
6, 450kms or average fuel consumption around 15.6l/100kms

Theres sumone who has tested for ya and all up ive spent $1000 on parts. Thanks Mr E10 fuel This has been done with United 98. As united are the only sellers of E10 fuel in tasmania Since using BP unleaded cars is around 11 - 13 l/100km. I dont use Bp fuel all the time i use caltex and Shell aswel and havent found any problems yet :)

Which BP fuel? Reason I ask is all BP standard unleaded is E10 also.

Which BP fuel? Reason I ask is all BP standard unleaded is E10 also.

They only Fuel thats E10 In Tasmania Is United fuel. Bp Only sells regular unleaded, Premium Unleaded and Ultimate fuel in Tasmania. I can tell u using normal unleaded fuel from either station my fuel consumption is on par and maybe 10 -15 kms difference in tanks I mostly use Shell as its easy for me to access but if they decide to use E10 then i will use caltex if they decide to then i start using premium fuel as its cheaper in the long run with servicing over the 5 cent saving from E10

Interesting. BP Unleaded, at least in QLD, is E10 only, tho it's not labelled E10.

it is due to government regulation

It said so on the sticker on the bowser

V power FTW!!!!!!!



TWICE a week, couldnt care less for the price what ever day it is thats all ill use in my car, i think its rather funny getting very little change out of 100 bucks lol it is worth it but do get annoyed when it goes over 100 bucks to fill

Interesting. BP Unleaded, at least in QLD, is E10 only, tho it's not labelled E10.

think its due to "supporting the sugar cane plantation" policy... I did find alot of E10 fuels around QLD when I was there last year

Personally would never put E10 in my car. Only use Caltex fuel as well. Over here VTX 95 is 10c dearer and VTX 98 is 4c dearer again.

Im currently getting over 700ks to a tank on Caltex 91, have been recorded every tank since January. Will be trying 98 soon to gauge if there is any real difference, as my weekly driving schedule is very similar each week.

Okay, can I just say, this is BS, fine enough for the average motorist, but where this is shortsighted is for boaties, people are forgetting that outboard motors CAN NOT be run on E10, which will mean putting 150L+ of over-inflated priced premium at a time.

Interesting. BP Unleaded, at least in QLD, is E10 only, tho it's not labelled E10.

That could be the reason why my car has been idling a little bit rough.
I use BP ULP and stay clear of the E10 stuff, basically if it wasn't designed to run it from factory I don't use it.
Plus I thought all fuel companies had to display if there using E10 fuel on the bowsers by law?

E10 in older engines is also not good.

and it smells like anus.

Yea I used E10 for first time the other day. Less kms out of it, higher average fuel. Car does feel any different but yea the numbers show

I ran E10 fuel in my car, Nothing has happened over the last 12 months Oh Wait it has here is what i found.

1, 2 Fuel filters
2, 6 New injectors
3, New Cat
4, Burnt out exhaust
5, New Rear bumber from burning hot from the exhaust tip
6, 450kms or average fuel consumption around 15.6l/100kms

Theres sumone who has tested for ya and all up ive spent $1000 on parts. Thanks Mr E10 fuel This has been done with United 98. As united are the only sellers of E10 fuel in tasmania Since using BP unleaded cars is around 11 - 13 l/100km. I dont use Bp fuel all the time i use caltex and Shell aswel and havent found any problems yet :)

Same shit happened in my corolla

never again

apparently you can mess with a shitload of timing to get out more power, though

Interesting findings.

I've almost exclusively used Liberty E10 94RON for the last 3 years. I average ~9.5L/100kms, 700kms per tank.
I've tried BP Ultimate 98RON, no power or fuel economy change over E10.
What can I say? It works for me :)

with woolworths fuel, the 95 is ALWAYS 9c more than the unleaded and 98 is ALWAYS 14c more, so you may see it go down if anything, plus 95 is the least used fuel, atleast where i work, its either 91 or 98.

it will only go down on a Tuesday every other day they will jack it up lol

They won't put the e10 down, they'll either jack the 95 and 98 up even more to make it appear that way or keep things exactly how they are now.

Interesting findings.

I've almost exclusively used Liberty E10 94RON for the last 3 years. I average ~9.5L/100kms, 700kms per tank.
I've tried BP Ultimate 98RON, no power or fuel economy change over E10.
What can I say? It works for me :)

so you have a base of 91RON regular unleaded and then the ethanol is added to make it 94RON

we are talking about 91 RON E10
alot of problems from the lower grade fuel

apparently you can mess with a shitload of timing to get out more power, though

your thinking of e85......

The following has been copied from the Australian Shell website:

We go to great lengths to understand the needs of our customers. That's why there is a range of Shell Unleaded petrols for you to choose from.

Shell V Power

Designed to improve responsiveness

Shell V-Power contains powerful cleaning technology, developed to help enhance everyday driving performance and responsiveness. These cleaning components are designed to prevent the build up of power-robbing inlet valve deposits and to help remove those which may have been left behind by other fuels.

Formulated for enhancing power delivery

Shell V-Power is also a high-octane fuel (98 RON) designed to improve the performance of many modern engines. This is aided by Shell V-Power’s Friction ModificationTechnology (FMT) which is formulated to reduce friction between the cylinder and piston rings, a critical area of the engine where lubrication is difficult to achieve. FMT is designed to help the engine turn more freely, and so help transfer energy from the fuel to the wheels more efficiently.

Find out if Shell V-Power is the right fuel to use with your car.
Shell V-Power can be used in any car designed to run on unleaded petrol (except that some pre-1986 cars will also require the use of an anti-valve seat recession additive like Valvemaster). Its formulation is designed to help cars operate at their best, using powerful cleaning agents and Friction Modification Technology (FMT). The cleaning agents are formulated to control the build-up of deposits in new cars and to assist in removing deposits in older cars. This can help restore performance. And FMT can help cars benefit from friction reduction.


Shell Unleaded Petrol
Shell Unleaded petrol has a minimum Research Octane Number of 91.

Shell Unleaded petrol is designed for use in all motor vehicles registered in Australia since 1 January 1986 and some pre 1986 models (refer to owners manual to confirm this application). It is also suited for all 2 and 4 stroke applications associated with motorcycles, marine, motor mowers, chain saws, brush cutters, etc., which have a requirement for petrol with an octane number of 91 or less.

Shell Unleaded petrol contains our Fuel Economy Formula, designed to clean deposits within the engine. A clean engine means your vehicle will be working at its optimum performance and with reduced emissions.

Shell Premium Unleaded Petrol/Shell Unleaded 95*

Shell Premium Unleaded has a minimum Research Octane Number of 95 and is designed for use in many imported and high performance vehicles which are designed to run exclusively on high octane fuels.

Shell Premium Unleaded is designed to ensure your engine operates at maximum performance and efficiency and also contains our exclusive fuel economy formula, designed to clean deposits within the engine. A clean engine means your vehicle will be working at its optimum performance and with reduced emissions.

*Shell Unleaded 95 is available as Shell Premium Unleaded in WA, NT & TAS

Shell Unleaded E10

Now more than ever motorists are looking for cleaner, more efficient fuels.

Shell Unleaded E10 contains 10% ethanol which is cleaner burning and helps to reduce Greenhouse gas emissions. It also contains our exclusive Fuel Economy Formula, which is designed to take you further by keeping your engine clean.*

More info on Shell E10:
http://www.shell.com.au/home/content/aus/products_services/on_the_road/fuels/e10/

Yes, I don't really see how e10 can reduce fuel economy as much as people say, when done correctly. If you get 10 percent less mileage, that means the ethanol is doing nothing at all! If ethanol is 30 percent less energy dense (not sure exactly what it is!), the 10 percent component should reduce economy by no more than 3 percent. Is it possible due to the oxygen in the ethanol the ECU is making the car run too rich as its detecting an oxygen rich combustion! (since the ethanol adds 3 percent oxygen to the fuel)?

Yes, I don't really see how e10 can reduce fuel economy as much as people say, when done correctly. If you get 10 percent less mileage, that means the ethanol is doing nothing at all! If ethanol is 30 percent less energy dense (not sure exactly what it is!), the 10 percent component should reduce economy by no more than 3 percent. Is it possible due to the oxygen in the ethanol the ECU is making the car run too rich as its detecting an oxygen rich combustion! (since the ethanol adds 3 percent oxygen to the fuel)?

Why not try it yourself for a month and see what figures you get.

Here is the DRIVE website that produced a report in December 2008 - "False economy: fuel types compared" comparing different fuel types.
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=59627&s_rid=smh:rainbowstrip:content2:15-12_ethanol&pg=2&vf=0&IsPgd=0

Any ethanol or bio fuel is bad for the environment - it uses land that can otherwise grow food, requires carbon hungry machinery to grow and process it, requires carbon hungry machinery to mine and manufacture the fertilisers thrown at it, the byproducts pollute our waterways and whatever Shell says there is absolutely no way ethanol fuel reduces carbon emissions. All the carbon captured is released on combustion. It's like those idiots with electric cars thinking that they are doing the environment a favour because they're not consuming fuel but what they are indirectly burning is a truck load of coal. And if bio fuels become popular demand for oil will fall, become cheaper and thus be available to other industry types. Oil will always be consumed until it is gone. End rant.

My TE is most efficient using the 95 :)

Well, sometimes... but the ethanol primarily used in Australia comes from the byproducts of sugar cane refining, which means that it is being grown anyway so no extra land is being used. The efficiency (amount of energy produced for a given fuel amount) of a coal power plant far exceeds that of any car engine, so overall less carbon is being released by an electric car.

As for ""All the carbon captured is released on combustion"", yes, it is, but it is carbon that was already in the air and creates little overall increase in the total CO2 in the air, where petroleum from crude oil releases carbon into the air that was safely tucked away underground.

Biodiesel, now that is where the real possibilities lie. A really good bio-fuel process that they are working on at the moment is using algae to to produce bio-diesel, the algae requires little land space compared to farming projects to make vege oil biodiesel.

I filled up today with Shell Unleaded as normal, and when I went to pay, I asked the cashier if the unleaded had been changed over to include 10% ethanol. He said it has, and I told him then why doesn't it say on the bowser where the nossle is. He was lost for words, and I'm not sure if that is a breach of some kind of inproper labelling. Will now see what difference in fuel consumption occurs over the next month. Previously there was a 4 cents per litre difference between E10 and Unleaded, now Unleaded with 10% ethanol the difference is 3 cents.
Not sure if the price reduction should be more.

I filled up today with Shell Unleaded as normal, and when I went to pay, I asked the cashier if the unleaded had been changed over to include 10% ethanol. He said it has, and I told him then why doesn't it say on the bowser where the nossle is. He was lost for words, and I'm not sure if that is a breach of some kind of inproper labelling. Will now see what difference in fuel consumption occurs over the next month. Previously there was a 4 cents per litre difference between E10 and Unleaded, now Unleaded with 10% ethanol the difference is 3 cents.
Not sure if the price reduction should be more.

Noticed this as well. Filled my 1989 Feroza up and saw E10 on the tiny label ontop of the bowser - mind you being my height I literally had to look up - defo not in my eye sight.

Shat myself as E10 isnt meant to be used within the earlier ferozas. Found it crappy instead of putting the normal green label around the now E10 - theyve got the yellow which generally suggests 91.

This is why the labelling at the bowser for the various fuel types is important. The following has been copied from the Shell Australia website:

Please note the nozzle branding for Shell Unleaded formulated with 10% ethanol at these sites will be yellow. You should also note that the maingrade of fuel sold at all sites other than those listed overleaf will be Shell Unleaded 91 (without ethanol) which will also have yellow nozzle branding.

I wonder if the operators of the various Coles Express stations are aware of this!

This is why the labelling at the bowser for the various fuel types is important. The following has been copied from the Shell Australia website:

Please note the nozzle branding for Shell Unleaded formulated with 10% ethanol at these sites will be yellow. You should also note that the maingrade of fuel sold at all sites other than those listed overleaf will be Shell Unleaded 91 (without ethanol) which will also have yellow nozzle branding.

I wonder if the operators of the various Coles Express stations are aware of this!


and there is absolutley nothing more maddening that all the servos having different color hoses for there fuel....why cant they all get together and agree on a std color for each of the fuels....

and there is absolutley nothing more maddening that all the servos having different color hoses for there fuel....why cant they all get together and agree on a std color for each of the fuels....

That would be too easy.

In short will the 6G72 run on this E10 stuff as around the Highlands.. Normal Fuels are dissapearing and even when you do find it, its bloody premium...

Yes, I have been running my families magnas (3 magnas & 1 verada) on E10 for over 2 1/2 years without a problem.
Fuel economy averages between 7.5 (country) and 9.5 (working week) l/100kms.
The mitsu website said that it can be used, so I use it.
Approaching 240,000kms on one of them now.

I found one shell petrol station in Warrawong that still sells normal unleaded.

Anyone else notice the increase price difference between Shell Unleaded (yellow) and V Power. Previously it was 14 cents, today it was 17 cents. Asked the attendent and he just smiled. Filled up with Unleaded 95 today (12 cent diff), costing too much using Ethanol 10 due to less fuel consumpion.

A few weeks ago I changed my oil from Castrol Edge 5w30 which I have used for years to Penrite HPR10. Almost immediately I noticed a change in the revvabilityof the engine and it generally felt sluggish, thought to myself that the HPR10 was a bit too thick or my engine just didnt like it so planned to go back to Edge next change. Then the other day I realised I had been using E10 from Shell for the past few weeks.

Long story short, I found a United that still sells regular unleaded and gave the accelerator pedal a stomp and what do you know, massive improvement. Not back where it was performance wise but once the remainder of mixed-in E10 works its way out of the tank Ill see how it goes. Never going E10 again.

Also economy has improved massively. I only have a short drive to work so the engine runs cold almost all the time but according to the trip computer I use 0.5L getting to work compared to 0.8 on E10.

I don't like E10 at all, yes it's cheap but you're running less k's so in fact E10 is more expensive than unleaded.

with woolworths fuel, the 95 is ALWAYS 9c more than the unleaded and 98 is ALWAYS 14c more, so you may see it go down if anything, plus 95 is the least used fuel, atleast where i work, its either 91 or 98.

Interesting. I actually used 95 for a long time before i had my car returned to 98 octane. I noticed better response time with 95 compared to 91, but using 98 made no difference and actually felt like it was using more fuel per km. So I was happy with 95. Now that the car is tuned to 98, they better not ethanol that stuff....

I found one shell petrol station in Warrawong that still sells normal unleaded.
When I spoke to the manager at my local shell one evening he said they had no intentions of changing over to E10, or even stocking it as an alternative, so it certainly seems some of the servo's are pretty reluctant to drop ULP.

In today's Daily Telegraph Car Guide, Graham Smith wrote an article about E10. In the first part of his article he talks about the law in NSW, where it already requires fuel companies to blend 4 per cent ethanol in the regular unleaded they produce, and that will rise to 6 per cent on January 1, 2011 before going to 10 per cent on July 1 2011.

The second part of his article he says, "for now, NSW is only replacing regular unleaded petrrole with E10, a blend of 10 per cent ethanol with 90 per cent unleaded petrol".

If the current NSW law says that fuel companies are required to blend 4 per cent ethanol, are the fuel companies breaking the law by already blending 10 per cent ethanol, which is not suppose to be introduced until July 1 2011.

wait until only E85 is available . . . . .

If the current NSW law says that fuel companies are required to blend 4 per cent ethanol, are the fuel companies breaking the law by already blending 10 per cent ethanol, which is not suppose to be introduced until July 1 2011.

No, there is a mandate on the minimum, not the maximum. They could blend any amount they wanted, but since people are against 10% so drastically, it would not make business sense to have anything higher.



wait until only E85 is available . . . . .

I seriously doubt that is going to happen. Hopefully they start bringing it in more as an alternative if you want it, but they would never be able to produce enough to make it the primary source. That and people would still irrationally think that regular or a lesser percent blend is better for their engine, even though the majority of cars would be specifically designed for it by then...

In other news I just hit 750km on my tank of E10, combined cycle. Still a few more litres to go before I'll top it up. :happy:

No, there is a mandate on the minimum, not the maximum. They could blend any amount they wanted, but since people are against 10% so drastically, it would not make business sense to have anything higher.




I seriously doubt that is going to happen. Hopefully they start bringing it in more as an alternative if you want it, but they would never be able to produce enough to make it the primary source. That and people would still irrationally think that regular or a lesser percent blend is better for their engine, even though the majority of cars would be specifically designed for it by then...

In other news I just hit 750km on my tank of E10, combined cycle. Still a few more litres to go before I'll top it up. :happy:

It is a known fact that E85 requires 30% more fuel than standard 98 RON unleaded for the same bang. So you effectively get 30% less distance from your tank of fuel. Until car companies can address this massive issue, this is not going to change, and I will not use the stuff, unless for a race car and it's specifically tuned to run it.

Ive tried E10 from woolies and shell and in both cases i end up with a car that dosen't idle properly

It is a known fact that E85 requires 30% more fuel than standard 98 RON unleaded for the same bang. So you effectively get 30% less distance from your tank of fuel. Until car companies can address this massive issue, this is not going to change, and I will not use the stuff, unless for a race car and it's specifically tuned to run it.

I don't know about 'known fact,' more like 'common myth' if you ask me. Most flex-fuel cars will use 30% more, because using E85 was an afterthought. Nobody ever designed a Chevy Tahoe or Ford Crown Victoria to run on E85, so in an effort to seem more eco-friendly, they just cranked up the fuel when E85 is being used.

On the other hand, European carmakers like Saab are putting more thought into it, and their cars only use about 15% more than regular. Sure, it's still more, but with the price difference, you'd be breaking even, if not slightly ahead. And it won't be long before they manage to make it equal to regular too. The Aero-X concept is 10% more efficient running on E100 than it is on regular. Interesting stuff.

Whether you (and others) use it or not doesn't bother me really. Less demand means lower pricing, which is better for me. :happy:

Like I said, if car manufacturers can figure out a way to make it as efficient as regular unlreaded then it may be a viable alternative. Certainly other factors like deforestation etc need to be looked into when making a push for ethanol fuels, as most ethanol is made from sugar cane that is grown in Brazil as far as I know, and there's quite an environmental impact in doing so.

The thing is, it doesn't have to be as economical to be useful. It's not just about how much people use on a trip, it's about alternate sources of fuel other than oil. We import massive amounts of oil, and by introducing ethanol blends we will be able to be more self sufficient. 85% ethanol minus the 30% efficiency drop (at worst) still equals a whole lot less oil needed. Got to think of the big picture here people.

I was running the pajero(daily driver) on 91ron till it was banished from Sydney servos and now have switched to 95ron. I fill up with 1/4 of a tank left. I was getting 400kms on 91ron and now with 95ron I'm getting between 450 - 500kms a tank. The price difference is between 5-10c a litre higher over e10. With 70l of fuel on each fill up it's between $4 and $8 dollars a tank extra to fill up on premium. On the road the extra 100 kms a tank it's about $17-$20 worth of value on the road. So if you don't use 95 it really is costing you money. Now use e10 and it will cost you even more than my comparison to 91.

The thing is, it doesn't have to be as economical to be useful. It's not just about how much people use on a trip, it's about alternate sources of fuel other than oil. We import massive amounts of oil, and by introducing ethanol blends we will be able to be more self sufficient. 85% ethanol minus the 30% efficiency drop (at worst) still equals a whole lot less oil needed. Got to think of the big picture here people.

Appears we have another who has fallen for the peak oil myth.

Check out the abiotic oil theory. Not proven yet, but appears far more credible than peak oil, which has been doing the rounds for 30 years now and still never seems to arrive.

Put simply, ethanol is a sick joke and cannot possibly replace oil as the primary source of motor vehicle fuel for the next 20 years at least. We would need to give over huge amounts of farmland currently used for food production to make it remotely feasible. Hydrogen fuel cells make much more sense .

It's a current lefty fad to push alternative fuels like ethanol, and that's the main reason we have E10 and E85 in Australia. The other reason is the fairly powerful Qld sugar cane lobby, headed by Manildra.

Don't just think of the big picture, think of the whole picture.

KJ.

Appears we have another who has fallen for the peak oil myth.

Check out the abiotic oil theory. Not proven yet, but appears far more credible than peak oil, which has been doing the rounds for 30 years now and still never seems to arrive.

Put simply, ethanol is a sick joke and cannot possibly replace oil as the primary source of motor vehicle fuel for the next 20 years at least. We would need to give over huge amounts of farmland currently used for food production to make it remotely feasible. Hydrogen fuel cells make much more sense .

It's a current lefty fad to push alternative fuels like ethanol, and that's the main reason we have E10 and E85 in Australia. The other reason is the fairly powerful Qld sugar cane lobby, headed by Manildra.

Don't just think of the big picture, think of the whole picture.

KJ.

Appears we have another who is highly self important and opinionated but not well informed.

That's not what I was trying to get across. 'OMG we have no oil' is a long, long way away. I'm not concerned about that.

What I'm talking about is the economy, politics and all that business. If we use more ethanol blended fuels we will not be so dependant on backwards-ass countries in the Middle-East. Don't tell me that is not a good thing.

Of course it can't completely replace oil, but it's a halfway step to using less of it until something better comes along. Hydrogen is just bollocks, further from replacing petrol than ethanol is at the current stage.

For a 'fad' it's been around for a while, and has no sign of disappearing any time soon. I'm no leftist eco-friendly save the world kind of people either though. In fact I am the very opposite.

Please follow your own advice and look at the whole picture. Try to be less conspiracist about big evil sugarcane companies too. Does the company you work for not ever try and encourage something that would be good for business?

Oh, and EGO, I had forgotten about it until this topic caught my eye again - the servo supposedly 'nearby' to me stopped stocking E85 months and months ago because people were too scared to use it. What a wasted three hours driving it was that day. :doubt:

if we stop buy oil from OPEC then how are supposed to build a tower to heaven to see Kenny
or build on an island shaped in the shape of some symbol

MEH arent we suppose to be zooming around all jetson like anyway??

if we stop buy oil from OPEC then how are supposed to build a tower to heaven to see Kenny
or build on an island shaped in the shape of some symbol

MEH arent we suppose to be zooming around all jetson like anyway??

It's the CORPORATIONS man, keeping us down so they can ruin the environment. It's a conspiracy I'm telling you, the MAN has the technology to make engines run on pollution and emit vanilla scented oxygen. But they're not gonna let us have it! Hey.... Don't hog the smoke, bro.

http://i34.tinypic.com/2cfzled.jpg

I was running the pajero(daily driver) on 91ron till it was banished from Sydney servos and now have switched to 95ron. I fill up with 1/4 of a tank left. I was getting 400kms on 91ron and now with 95ron I'm getting between 450 - 500kms a tank. The price difference is between 5-10c a litre higher over e10. With 70l of fuel on each fill up it's between $4 and $8 dollars a tank extra to fill up on premium. On the road the extra 100 kms a tank it's about $17-$20 worth of value on the road. So if you don't use 95 it really is costing you money. Now use e10 and it will cost you even more than my comparison to 91.

:stoopid:, i use BP ultamite in my sports(cuase i have to) and i find if i use the 95 with 10% ethnol in my dailiy driver (TE Altera), its a lot better than the 91 with e10 crap

Yeah no doubt Perry, if possible I always fill up with the 95 octane E10 at United or 94 at Shell. I mean, I'll still put 91 in if I have to, but how can you go wrong with a higher octane and 2c/L cheaper? :)