Hay all

Ive done abit of search on ralliart cams. Say if i got my mechanic to fit these cams into a TH 3.5l manual these cams will fit straight in. Do u have to change timing or anything or do u just pull the old cams out and new cams in put back togethor and away u go? I know with a tune u get most benifit with cams aswell. Wat benifit with cam gears can u get with magnas aswell. Can u do cam gears with stock tune?

Thanks Kurt

If i put ralliart cams in my car How much would i retard or advance my timing on my front and rear bank with cam gears.? I dont wont to loose top end or low end power i only wont a gain in power in either one if thats possible?

The ralliart cam is only a 10% lift over stock.

If i were you i would get a custom cam and tune package. Getting a cam and no tune wouldn't be worth it at all.

The ralliart cam is only a 10% lift over stock.

If i were you i would get a custom cam and tune package. Getting a cam and no tune wouldn't be worth it at all.

Im doing a tune a month after i get my ralliart cams fitted

The ralliart cam is only a 10% lift over stock.

If i were you i would get a custom cam and tune package. Getting a cam and no tune wouldn't be worth it at all.

Sorry but you are quite incorrect.

The Ralliart / 380 cams have proven to be a very good bang for buck improvement, many in the club have them myself included and the increase is quite noticable.

You are right about getting a good tune done, many hve been over to SKR and a few have been over before cams and after cams and the results speak for them selves

You can go to get some after market cams but as history has shown, these are very hit and miss and many here have had very dissapointing results, one cam grinder in particular for some reason can not even manage to get the same profile on 2 of the same cams in a row!

The cam's drop straight out the back of the block You will obviously have to seperate the manifold and air intake system from the engine to be able to get to all this. but hey atleast you don't have to drop the engien out.

As for power I'm getting a tune next month so will let you know, I am currently running the factory tune, notice a little bit more in the high end of the rev range, so i can't wait to get a real tune on it.

hehe, sorry i am still in commodore mode lol have only owned a magna for 3 weeks or so.

But i think i am right by saying the ralliart cam has %10 lift and thats about it?

More info Here: http://www.wermspowke.net/wiki/index.php/Engine

The cam's drop straight out the back of the block You will obviously have to seperate the manifold and air intake system from the engine to be able to get to all this. but hey atleast you don't have to drop the engien out.

As for power I'm getting a tune next month so will let you know, I am currently running the factory tune, notice a little bit more in the high end of the rev range, so i can't wait to get a real tune on it.

So when u remove the cam u just put the ralliart cam in and away u go pal?

Sorry but you are quite incorrect.

The Ralliart / 380 cams have proven to be a very good bang for buck improvement, many in the club have them myself included and the increase is quite noticable.

You are right about getting a good tune done, many hve been over to SKR and a few have been over before cams and after cams and the results speak for them selves

You can go to get some after market cams but as history has shown, these are very hit and miss and many here have had very dissapointing results, one cam grinder in particular for some reason can not even manage to get the same profile on 2 of the same cams in a row!

Do u know anything about cam gears when i put the ralliart cams in the car watch should i set the cam gears to the front and rear bank?

kurt,

Are you going to be installing cams and cam gears yourself?

You can install them and change nothing else and it will be fine. I had mine done about 10,000km ago and have had no issues. You could upgrade the valve springs if you plan on taking the motor further. I didnt as i dont have that intention, and it will add a lot more to the cost of the install.

Take the opportunity to replace cam seals, front cam blanking plate o-ring and distributor o-ring. Rocker cover and tube seals are reusable if not leaking.

Thermostat housing has to come off so plan ahead and get all those seals and fresh coolant.

Timing belt has to come off so consider replacing that too if it's got more than 50K on it.


Hay all

Ive done abit of search on ralliart cams. Say if i got my mechanic to fit these cams into a TH 3.5l manual these cams will fit straight in. Do u have to change timing or anything or do u just pull the old cams out and new cams in put back togethor and away u go? I know with a tune u get most benifit with cams aswell. Wat benifit with cam gears can u get with magnas aswell. Can u do cam gears with stock tune?

Thanks Kurt
Cams will fit straight in. Timing does not need to be changed. Straight forward replacement.


If i put ralliart cams in my car How much would i retard or advance my timing on my front and rear bank with cam gears.? I dont wont to loose top end or low end power i only wont a gain in power in either one if thats possible?
Ok, I slotted my cam gears and advanced the timing to +4deg front +6deg rear (From memory).
I picked up bottom end torque but the engine fell flat above 5K RPM.
On a FWD Magna like mine that already struggles for traction it just didn't work.

I went back to stock timing.
Low/Mid RPM feels the same as the #6 cams, top end is a noticeable improvement.
Where the #6 cams drop off noticeably above 5.5K RPM, the Ralliart cams pull hard all the way to 5.5K then flatten out to 6K. It's a bigger improvement than that sounds.

Basically before it felt pointless revving past 5K. With the Ralliart cams it's willing to pull all the way to redline :)

First, when you fit new cams you should also fit new lifters.
Second, take the opportunity to replace cam seals, front cam blanking plate o-ring and distributor o-ring. Rocker cover and tube seals are reusable if not leaking.

Thermostat housing has to come off so plan ahead and get all those seals and fresh coolant.

Timing belt has to come off so consider replacing that too if it's got more than 50K on it.


Cams will fit straight in. Timing does not need to be changed. Straight forward replacement.


Ok, I slotted my cam gears and advanced the timing to +4deg front +6deg rear (From memory).
I picked up bottom end torque but the engine fell flat above 5K RPM.
On a FWD Magna like mine that already struggles for traction it just didn't work.

I went back to stock timing.
Low/Mid RPM feels the same as the #6 cams, top end is a noticeable improvement.
Where the #6 cams drop off noticeably above 5.5K RPM, the Ralliart cams pull hard all the way to 5.5K then flatten out to 6K. It's a bigger improvement than that sounds.

Basically before it felt pointless revving past 5K. With the Ralliart cams it's willing to pull all the way to redline :)

Thanks mate answered all my questions. So basically u reckon its not worth putting cam gears on the magna with ralliart cams?

Are the 3.5's SOHC or DOHC? its surprisingly hard to find that piece of info for someone who just got into magnas

Single.

First, when you fit new cams you should also fit new lifters.

Second, take the opportunity to replace cam seals, front cam blanking plate o-ring and distributor o-ring. Rocker cover and tube seals are reusable if not leaking.

Thermostat housing has to come off so plan ahead and get all those seals and fresh coolant.

Timing belt has to come off so consider replacing that too if it's got more than 50K on it.


Cams will fit straight in. Timing does not need to be changed. Straight forward replacement.


Ok, I slotted my cam gears and advanced the timing to +4deg front +6deg rear (From memory).
I picked up bottom end torque but the engine fell flat above 5K RPM.
On a FWD Magna like mine that already struggles for traction it just didn't work.

I went back to stock timing.
Low/Mid RPM feels the same as the #6 cams, top end is a noticeable improvement.
Where the #6 cams drop off noticeably above 5.5K RPM, the Ralliart cams pull hard all the way to 5.5K then flatten out to 6K. It's a bigger improvement than that sounds.

Basically before it felt pointless revving past 5K. With the Ralliart cams it's willing to pull all the way to redline :)

What's the reasoning behind that? I had 2 cam changes in my 3.5l & had no new lifters put in.

Thanks mate answered all my questions. So basically u reckon its not worth putting cam gears on the magna with ralliart cams?

I put adjustables cam gears in my AWD, when it was still a 3.5l.

I advanced both banks 4 degrees. There was no extra power/ torque gained but it brought the torque on earlier & brought the top-end down a bit. BUT, that was for an AWD, which needs all the low down help it can get. Your FWD won't need that, however. Just whack 'em in & have the car runed. Have you upgraded your full exhaust from the headers back yet?

I put adjustables cam gears in my AWD, when it was still a 3.5l.

I advanced both banks 4 degrees. There was no extra power/ torque gained but it brought the torque on earlier & brought the top-end down a bit. BUT, that was for an AWD, which needs all the low down help it can get. Your FWD won't need that, however. Just whack 'em in & have the car runed. Have you upgraded your full exhaust from the headers back yet?

Ive done everything except headers. Do tuners play around with the timing of the cam gears when doing a tune of a car?

Ive done everything except headers. Do tuners play around with the timing of the cam gears when doing a tune of a car?

I guess they do, if you ask them to. If you're planning on doing this, when you have the cams installed, cut the rear timing belt cover in such a way that the rear bottom corner bolts on on it's own leaving the top part removable - otherwise it's a pain to get the covers off to adjust the gears.

Spend your money on headers instead, though. & a high flow cat - if you haven't already.

What's the reasoning behind that? I had 2 cam changes in my 3.5l & had no new lifters put in.
Oops. You don't. I was thinking old skool where the lifters ride directly on the camshaft. Ours don't, so your right, no need to change lifters. I'll edit the other post to save confusion.
When I changed my cams I did replace the lifters, but that's because they where stuffed.

I've got a set of adjustable cam gears on mine, i know when my cams were installed they did advance the timing a little but not sure how much

With your cams Perry, being Tighe's or similar, as were my first set of cams, it was wise to put in the adjustable cam gears as they're a bit of a hit & miss cam which could require adjusting.

The ralliarts, however, are a known & tested product, producing good results when installed in the stock position with no adjustments.

Does anyone know of a more aggressive cam i can use than a ralliart cam but not have to basically rebuild my head?

The ralliarts, however, are a known. At least the ones ground in Australia were....sort of :shifty:

For those about to type "Ralliart Cams" into ebay, be mindful that your car will feel a little more willing and perky. It will not put you in the same league as a cammed up 6L SS - thats what RS4s and M5s are for. You wont even feel yourself getting sucked into your seat. Sorry, that's the real-world result. Bang for buck? Maybe. There are better cam profiles on their way if people can hold out. JasonsVRX amoung others have shown what a well researched and thought-thru cam profile can achieve in our motors. They've got excellent heads and will breathe very efficiently with increased duration and overlap in natmo guise. For SC extra lift is nice and some more duration. Turbo likes a bit of everything. In fwd I'd be aiming to get your torque solid from 23-2500rpm so adjustable cam gears can be handy but there's not very big numbers there with the oem profiles.