I have read the threads on wildly spinning front wheels and I just havnt had a major problem so I decided to give it a test this afternoon. I even took a stopwatch to check my 0-100.
I have this straight bit of quiet country road (110) Came to a dead stop, floored the throttle. bit of torque steer but nothing to mention One hand holding stopwatch. No wheel spin, got to 100 in 7.8 secs.
Repeated the same thing. No front wheel spin. I had TC on. Road undulates a bit.
Make of that what you will.:woot:

7.8secs to a 100kmh sounds fairly slow for the mods you have done. Should be in the low 7s.

I'm very surprised that with exhaust & intake mods plus stock tyres (looks like it in the pic) that you get no wheelspin flooring it off the mark??

You obviously need more mods!!! :P

I'm very surprised that with exhaust & intake mods plus stock tyres (looks like it in the pic) that you get no wheelspin flooring it off the mark??

You obviously need more mods!!! :PYes my thoughts exactly

Yes my thoughts exactly

Maybe it's those Kings Lows helping a bit? I have the stock 17" wheels on my SX also, and if I did this , I'd stay still for the first 2-3 seconds, maybe longer.
What tyre pressures you got, I'd love to get more bite on the road, but I think it will be a case of new 19" rims, as it's already fairly low with the stock springs.
Maybe I could put a huge cow catcher on the front :roll:

Well I'm going back to my bit of road tomorrow and give it another go. If you dont hear from me again I'm probably wrapped around a tree LOL

Maybe it's those Kings Lows helping a bit? I

it wouldnt be the lows cause ive got super lows and am currently running my 17's instead of my 20's and all i get is wheel spin if i plant it and alls ive got the same in terms of mods is the 90mm intake, hardly any spin if any with the 20x8.5 wheels tho :)

I'd better get it on a dyno. It feels very responsive and my previous car was a V8.

never mind.

Seems like there are 2 issues here.
I dont get significant wheelspin on WOT from standstill and 7.8 to 100 isnt that far off the pace assuming I wasnt spot on with the stopwatch and the road isnt dead flat.

never mind.

I wont worry now if you dont spin it on the TMR
I dont get wheelspin in my TMR380 on take off.

I do on the GT though with same blower.

Good suspension and rubber is doing its job, maybe yours as well...so why worry?

I dont get wheelspin in my TMR380 on take off.

I do on the GT though with same blower.

Good suspension and rubber is doing its job, maybe yours as well...so why worry?
No wheelspin at all in a FWD sedan with 230kw and 440nm. Wowsers. Does it have an LSD?

No wheelspin at all in a FWD sedan with 230kw and 440nm. Wowsers. Does it have an LSD?

No it dont.

Might have to take into account the road surface too hey.

Some surfaces are more grippier than others though.

I find the smoother, darker, black road surface grips far better than the lighter coloured, aggregate type of road surface.

I guess it's a case of greater surface area - more contact between tyre and road?

No it dont.

Well that's strange then. When I drove Richards 380 the other week there was a bit of wheelspin and his has nowhere near 230kw and 440nm.

Well that's strange then. When I drove Richards 380 the other week there was a bit of wheelspin and his has nowhere near 230kw and 440nm.

You didn't get a drive in mine the other week but obviously I have quite a lot of wheelspin in 1st & I run exactly the same width & type of Yokohama rubber as a TMR380.

You didn't get a drive in mine the other week but obviously I have quite a lot of wheelspin in 1st & I run exactly the same width & type of Yokohama rubber as a TMR380.

Does Blackstars' have the S3 blower tho? Doesn't that make significantly less power than the S5 in your car?

Does Blackstars' have the S3 blower tho? Doesn't that make significantly less power than the S5 in your car?

Yep it does but he has had it upgraded to the S5. No extractors though or open exhaust ....... or water/methanol injection & CAI Pod :badgrin:

So why is excessive wheelspin seemingly not an issue in other 'performance/powerful' fwd cars?
Someone here stated he would spin the fronts for 2 or 3 seconds on WOT on takeoff. I should state that my 380 is my first ever fwd car.
Just read writeup on the new golf gti. No mention of excessive wheelspin there.

So why is excessive wheelspin seemingly not an issue in other 'performance/powerful' fwd cars?
Someone here stated he would spin the fronts for 2 or 3 seconds on WOT on takeoff. I should state that my 380 is my first ever fwd car.
Just read writeup on the new golf gti. No mention of excessive wheelspin there.
New Golf GTi has ESP which eliminates/limits wheelspin by cutting power to the engine under heavy acelleration. Our Ralliart Colt does the same thing. You can mash the throttle off the start and the ASC system will manage the wheelspin for a fairly quick takeoff.

never mind.

Chrisv what fuel are you on? 91,95 or 98?

Dave

Well I'm going back to my bit of road tomorrow and give it another go. If you dont hear from me again I'm probably wrapped around a tree LOL

chrisv, you might've missed my question in amongst all that.. I asked what tyre pressure you had during your tests. I want to know if it will make a difference to my WOT traction issues if I let some air out (mind you I don't know what's in them right now either..) by the way... prettty impressed with the Traction control on these cars, very subtle and responsive , the BA falcon I had used to practically disengage the wheels with the tiniest traction loss

Chris,take TC off mate! I found it killed my 0-100's. 7.8 is a stock time.

never mind

My tyre pressures are 32psi allround. I use standard unleaded which I assume is 95.
I dont want wheelspin, I just wonder why I'm not getting any(much)
As I said before my timings on the 0 - 100 maybe a bit out as its only a stopwatch timing not GPS.
Still a good car though

.....

Chris,take TC off mate! I found it killed my 0-100's. 7.8 is a stock time.

Interestingly I leave TC on all the time in mine because it's so subtle, still get excessive Wheelspin tho' even though the TC kicks in after a bit
Not bragging by the way, wheelspin is stupid... just a waste of good velocity, I'd prefer to have none and launch up the road instead :(
Maybe it's just my poxy Sakura tyres. They ARE new tho' and strangely they seem to hold very well during wet road takeoffs (not with WOT of course...don't think anything would achieve that!)

Hey, maybe I'll even try and get a recording together so you can see what I mean

lol ing on using a stopwatch to record 0-100 times hahahahahah

Use fingers?
What do you suggest to get close?
The time was only a secondary consideration while I was trying to induce wheelspin as others seem to encounter

Maybe it's just my poxy Sakura tyres. They ARE new tho' and strangely they seem to hold very well during wet road takeoffs (not with WOT of course...don't think anything would achieve that!)

Actually, you may be surprised at the difference available in just tyres alone. (and Sakura do not sound like good tyres to me) :)


One of best cars I've owned was a 1.6L 16v SOHC Daihatsu Applause in the mid 90's - it was quicker than a VN Commodore and supposedly had 77kW and about 170Nm with a 6500rpm redline. A certain rally driver took it for a spin and said I got lucky with a freak motor.

In the wet, it could spin the wheels at a standstill without a problem. eg: gentle throttle and clutch until you're moving, once at 5kph, smoothly apply full throttle and it would turn into constant wheelspin, pull 2nd with a quick shift and it would just keep spinning until you were going over 60kph road speed (90kph wheel speed) and then it would grip and the revs drop back to normal.

I then put Koni shocks (non adjustable) and k-mac lowered 1.5" springs onto the front. Very comfortable now and grip was better, but still not great.
Then I upgraded tyres from something like 175/60 P.O.S. brand to 185/55 Yokahama A520's.

I could then launch the car in the wet with about 3000rpm, quick on the cluch (not gentle, not dumping it) and straight to full throttle. The car would move and the tyres would spin a bit, like 3 revolutions, then squeal for another 2 revolutions and then grip and go flat out like the road was dry, flat shifting into 2nd would only turn the tyres momentarily if the water on the track was actually deep and not just wet, only a chirp available if surface is just wet or dry.
Mind you, those tyres would wear the fronts to nothing in just 20,000kms without rotation.


So my opinion & experience is that tyres alone can make a huge difference.

Correlating that my Applause had about 60% of the power & weight of a Magna then getting great grip should be possible since the Magna has 4 tyres like the Applause and the extra weight means a higher amount of friction (grip) on the tyres to offset the extra power. So to me it looks similar, except maybe the 3.5L V6 has porportionally more torque?

As already stated, a Magna configured to prevent the weight shift to the back plus good shocks that will conform to the road surface and then tyres that provide really good grip should do quite well. I haven't played with tyres much since the Applause, but I'm thinking of 225/50 or 55/17" quality brand and tread patterned tyres would do quite well. I find that 15 & 16" tyres have too large a profile so require very high air pressure to reduce tyre roll - I feel this improves cornering a LOT but probably reduces straight line grip a little.

IMO jack the back up and lower the front and it will be a grip master in a straight line. :D Drag car style.

Or just get an Auto AWD - less than half the power at each driven wheel compared to a FWD and there is zero wheel spin except with near worn tyres and the shiny white stripes at traffic lights.
(I'm constantly reminding myself that when turning corners an AWD has the same lateral grip as a FWD, so I can't go into roundabouts any quicker, just come out of them in more interesting ways)

Cheers!
p.s. sorry for the long story/post.
p.p.s. someone had to mention AWD ! :)

good tyres make a *massive* difference! i think for most people driving on the street upgrading tyres makes a bigger difference than upgrading suspension setup (and it's cheaper too)

i've always thought of it as: the stickiness of your rubber determines the maximum amount of grip your car has. the suspension setup determines the % of maximum grip that you can use in different situations (accelerating, braking, turning). crap tyres on the best suspension setup in the world will still give you poor grip!

I have Khumo Ecsta. An excellent tyre in wet and dry and quiet too. I will replace with the same when the time comes.

I have Khumo Ecsta. An excellent tyre in wet and dry and quiet too. I will replace with the same when the time comes.

i have the same tires as you in the 20". Great tire hold like crap to a blanket, wasnt aware they made them in the size for the standard 380 wheel size

I have Khumo Ecsta. An excellent tyre in wet and dry and quiet too. I will replace with the same when the time comes.

what number Ecsta???

there are different types which have different properties

You can't compare a manual to an auto either. Manuals are so much easier to achieve wheelspin than auto's :)

So I go back to my bit of quiet road. Turn off TC. Plant right foot. Front wheels chirp for about 1sec then off we go. I reckon using my intrepid timing device I was slower by 1sec..... Hoooray wheelspin at last!!!
PS Tyres are Kumho Ecsta ASX

So I go back to my bit of quiet road. Turn off TC. Plant right foot. Front wheels chirp for about 1sec then off we go. I reckon using my intrepid timing device I was slower by 1sec..... Hoooray wheelspin at last!!!
PS Tyres are Kumho Ecsta ASX

Well , I found at least one source of my traction problems: the guys at Subaru Mentone who serviced it before they gave it to me put 38 psi in the front wheels and 22psi in the rear. Picture a dog with an itchy butt dragging it's saggy bum along by two front paws.lol Also would've put the front higher and the rear lower, not good either

So.. I corrected these back to 32psi all round. I swear it actually feels like the car is tilted more forward when sitting in it now.
I then did a full WOT test at the lights afterwards (in peak hour) up a gentle slope using G-tac dyno. Wheels still spun for about 2 seconds, but I'm sure it there was more intermittent bite during the spin.. TC kicked in for a second or so , but still launched to 100Kms in 7.84 secs

Don't think the pressures were the only issue, but I'm pretty sure correcting them has helped a bit at least

I use 42 PSI all round

except ATM when I have a slow leak in one

I use 42 PSI all round

except ATM when I have a slow leak in one

recommended pressures are 32psi according to tyre placard are they not?

Well , I found at least one source of my traction problems: the guys at Subaru Mentone who serviced it before they gave it to me put 38 psi in the front wheels and 22psi in the rear. Picture a dog with an itchy butt dragging it's saggy bum along by two front paws.lol Also would've put the front higher and the rear lower, not good either

So.. I corrected these back to 32psi all round. I swear it actually feels like the car is tilted more forward when sitting in it now.
I then did a full WOT test at the lights afterwards (in peak hour) up a gentle slope using G-tac dyno. Wheels still spun for about 2 seconds, but I'm sure it there was more intermittent bite during the spin.. TC kicked in for a second or so , but still launched to 100Kms in 7.84 secs
Don't think the pressures were the only issue, but I'm pretty sure correcting them has helped a bit at least Very similar time to my guesstimate

recommended pressures are 32psi according to tyre placard are they not?

I am not running standard size tyres and BJT told me to run my tyres at that for better contact to the road

tyre placard on my AWD says...

front 29 psi, rear 26psi. but with 3 ppl max.
loaded, it should be 35/35psi fr/rear.
If going over 140kph increase both by 9psi.

SO, mine run 44psi all the time.
Actually, no they don't. I've got them at 40psi now - 36 had too much tyre roll so cornering was suffering. 40 is better but the bumps are much harsher, so I've accepted the tradeoff of more performance less comfort. Very important in this wet weather to maximise grip.

See:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b129/Ogier/Magna/IMG_0205-TyrePlacard.jpg

IMO, 36psi minimum in most cases, BUT any settings depend on your tyres. If you are not running the factory specification of wheels & tyres, then do not go by the factory specification of air pressure in the tyre.


EDIT: Oh bugger, I did it again and spouted Magna info in a 380 thread. Sorry, move along, nothing to see here.

Good stuff Oggy

yeah I sort run off the same sort principle

I run 34 PSI in my Maxxis MA-Z1 245/35 19's.

Reasonable compromise between grip & ride comfort.

If I wanted more grip through slightly stiffer sidewalls & less flex I could go to 38 PSI or more, and put up with a harsher ride.

But I find 34 PSI gives adequate grip even for reasonably 'spirited' cornering, before I get any squealing.

For extended high speed running (140km/h+) I would bump up the pressures to 42 PSI, but I haven't needed to do that for years (and not in Nanny State Oz where 140km/h = shock horror we're all gunna die lock him up & throw away the keys).

AFAICT the recommended pressures on tyre placards are way too low for good grip. They are skewed towards a soft ride, and you should use at least 4 more PSI than shown on the placard for good grip & handling.

And lower profiles usually means higher PSI needed to keep the correct stiffness in the sidewalls.

tyre placard on my AWD says...

front 29 psi, rear 26psi. but with 3 ppl max.
loaded, it should be 35/35psi fr/rear.
If going over 140kph increase both by 9psi.

SO, mine run 44psi all the time.
Actually, no they don't. I've got them at 40psi now - 36 had too much tyre roll so cornering was suffering. 40 is better but the bumps are much harsher, so I've accepted the tradeoff of more performance less comfort. Very important in this wet weather to maximise grip.

See:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b129/Ogier/Magna/IMG_0205-TyrePlacard.jpg

IMO, 36psi minimum in most cases, BUT any settings depend on your tyres. If you are not running the factory specification of wheels & tyres, then do not go by the factory specification of air pressure in the tyre.


EDIT: Oh bugger, I did it again and spouted Magna info in a 380 thread. Sorry, move along, nothing to see here.

ROFL! I was just thinking that !! In any case , I always drive this car solo, and never get an opportunity to do 140KM. I am running the factory spec 17" wheels and tyres, and as chrisv has pointed out , the placard says 32psi for this setup.

I don't really know if they could do with a bit more , I certainly don't think the 22psi that was in the rear would do, and given that I was having traction issues I thought I'd bring the fronts back to factory also

Mine are now 36psi all round.
I'll see if I notice any difference.
I used to run my 18's on my SS at 42 psi on the recommendation of BJ but it nearly shook my fillings out on some of the Gawler roads. LOL

I run 34 PSI in my Maxxis MA-Z1 245/35 19's.

Reasonable compromise between grip & ride comfort.

If I wanted more grip through slightly stiffer sidewalls & less flex I could go to 38 PSI or more, and put up with a harsher ride.

But I find 34 PSI gives adequate grip even for reasonably 'spirited' cornering, before I get any squealing.

For extended high speed running (140km/h+) I would bump up the pressures to 42 PSI, but I haven't needed to do that for years (and not in Nanny State Oz where 140km/h = shock horror we're all gunna die lock him up & throw away the keys).

AFAICT the recommended pressures on tyre placards are way too low for good grip. They are skewed towards a soft ride, and you should use at least 4 more PSI than shown on the placard for good grip & handling.

And lower profiles usually means higher PSI needed to keep the correct stiffness in the sidewalls.

Funny I used to run 38 mine (same size as yours), after a thread here which I started most people recommended 36ish. Last time I went for a tyre rotation the guy looked at all 4 and said they're underinflated, and to up it to 40 all round - which I did. Can feel the ride is firmer now.

I run 40PSI in the front & 36PSI in the rear. All tyres are now ready for replacement & I have even wear across the tread indicating those pressures were a good choice.

Loss of traction was noticable today on WOT with 36psi in fronts. Although it was a bit damp here.

i run 40-42 all around n i have noticed my tyres wear perfect i use to be a tyre fitter and i found out i got better life out of my tyres but i think it comes down to what people like keep a eye on your tyres if the edges start wearing to much put the pressuse up so the middle of the tyre wears more get better life out of your tyres but saying all this if you have a bad w/a it will wear your tyres

Loss of traction was noticable today on WOT with 36psi in fronts. Although it was a bit damp here.

Chris,
With the 32 psi I put in the tyres all round the other day to try and reduce wheelspin, I re-ran a launch on a flat stretch with 98 RON (last time was a gentle upward slope) and this time with a quick bit of spin and TCL , G-TAC reckons she did 0-100 in 6.76 secs :badgrin: . Maybe it all comes down to how much time you lose in the spin- bit of right foot control required i guess
(LOL - Let the 3rd gen flames commence :flame::flame: :booty:lollol)

thats agood time. Whats G-TAC?

thats agood time. Whats G-TAC?

GPS and accelerometer Software for the iphone . I use this and Bosch Light-em-up to give an indication of the 0-100 times.
It's pretty fair and I think I get better accuracy than with a stopwatch, basically starts measuring as soon as the accellerometer in my iphone hits a configured weight (you can make this more or less sensitive to make sure it senses the exact moment you take off, migh take a couple of go's to calibrate). Same sort of technology guys like Wheels use except it's inside the car with you (you have to wait a bit while it gets an exact GPS fix for accuracy). I'm sure somebody will be along to question it's accuracy , but I don't really give a rats as long as it's consistent, then I can see the before and after effects of mods etc. In fact it's probably more consistent than a wheel dyno with some of the crap that's going on with them these days :nuts::D

Am watching this with great interest. The 380 feels like 6.76 but not on my stopwatch.

Wow, just read most of this thread.

I get a lot of wheel spin when flooring it from stand still, and mine is just stock!

About to take it in for a warranty service, could there be something wrong with the TCL?

If so, is it covered under warranty?

Damn, I am worried now, considering others aren't getting any....

I'm assuming all you guys are trying this with the TC ON? If so, maybe there was a programming revision between the different series' of 380s?

Meh...

There will always be wheelspin.

At the track i got wheelspin regardless - less brutal with TCL on but crappy take offs. TCL off - more wheelspin for longer = crappy take offs

I take it you get..... crappy take offs? hehe :P

I have to work real hard to get wheelspin now in the dry.

But I have an LSD....:happy:

Solution ..... get a Blackstar Special LSD like I will be :)

Ahhhh you beat me to it lol

LOL...great minds post at the same time Fooz...


shit thats twice!


"Blackstar special LSD"......sounds like I am a dope dealer ...or maybe a dopey dealer....:happy:

Yep the "Blackstar special LSD" :lurk: Lurking in the back alley with a great coat full of LSD's lol

I remember back to my Verada, on the stock suspension and wheels if you mashed it from launch it'd spin completely through first, up to 60 or 70km/h, once the 18"s went on that was reduced to spinning up to about 20km/h, with the suspension it just chirped a little for the first few metres. So I'd be putting it down to tyres and suspension when your comparing.

Having said that, your bogging down pretty hard from launch if it doesn't slip at all even on the stock 175kw motor. Hell our 117kw Camry will slip if you just mash it from launch. Not that there's any real practicality to this of course.

I remember back to my Verada, on the stock suspension and wheels if you mashed it from launch it'd spin completely through first, up to 60 or 70km/h, once the 18"s went on that was reduced to spinning up to about 20km/h, with the suspension it just chirped a little for the first few metres. So I'd be putting it down to tyres and suspension when your comparing..

Yeah, that's all well and good, and had a KE the same.... but these 380s have TCL which is supposed to allow some some traction loss but manageable. With stock tyres and suspension they just spin, spin spin.
But I'm not complaining - I'd rather that than no torque down low.

Yeah, that's all well and good, and had a KE the same.... but these 380s have TCL which is supposed to allow some some traction loss but manageable. With stock tyres and suspension they just spin, spin spin.
But I'm not complaining - I'd rather that than no torque down low.
Well in theory you shouldn't get any traction loss with TCL engaged, much like ABS is supposed to kill lock up completely. I thought his reports were both with and without TLC on though.