Hiy a Folks.......a nice little parcel arrived from down south on Friday....containing my new Front and Rear Disc Rotors...and pads for them.....they'll be going in during the next week when time permits....in the meantime, ...here's a sneeky at what i got........

http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz322/72pug/DSC_2402.jpg

As you'll probably be able to see, they're the 4000 series, with slots and edge wiper slots also....

As for pads.....i have gone with HAWK Sport Ceramic for the front......and Bendix 4WD for the rear.

Ca'nt wait till they're installed and bedded in.... :-)

Cheers,

Pug.

Oh well........it's taken a week or so, but the Discs and pads finally went on last night, the originals from the front had 76,ooo on them and only had about 2mm left, the rears were only worn by about 2mm........ but all the pads were worn exactly even. The new ones went in without a hitch......went through the bedding in process last nite then let them cool overnight, repeated the process this morning then allowed them to cool for a couple of hours.

Have'nt given them a decent try yet, but the difference in just moderate braking is night and day....you can really feel them scrubbing off speed now, so just what's needed for a heavy beast like the AWD.
They should only get better.....

cheers,

Pug. :-)

I see no new brake fluid?
And those disc's were a waste.....standard blanks with new pads will do the same job....personally all the wiper slot shit does nothing better...it's ALL in the pads.

What were your original pads?

I see no new brake fluid?
And those disc's were a waste.....standard blanks with new pads will do the same job....personally all the wiper slot shit does nothing better...it's ALL in the pads.

What were your original pads?

Brake fluid was changed less than 3k before......i do it every 25 k.......before depending on drive conditions.

As for the slots in discs doinfg nothing, you're wrong......i've had plenty of these type of discs before....both on road cars....and also in race applications.....they help to keep the pads ...and discs clean, plus they help to outgas............it can be heard when u apply the brake.

This upgrade was'nt some pie in the sky idea because they look fancy......i spent the money because i know it works.....plus, i know what i'm talking about from real life experience.

The pads do their job, and were chosen specifically, again, not so i could just follow the pack.....

Cheers,

Pug.

Gases eh....lol
Well I'm glad you know what your talking about, I've spent the money before on slotted's and the do sweet FA. Marketing gimmick if you ask me. Plus been in numerous FWD magna's with standard and upgraded brakes and there is no difference at all :) What are the pads worth? never heard of "Hawk" pads...

Seriously, you aren't using your brakes much then.

Brake fade is caused by 2 things - one, the brake fluid boils - this happens more easily when the fluid is old and has absorbed more moisture.
second cause of brake fade is that gasses are produced by the braking surfaces of the pads & disc. This gas physically forces the pads away from the disc.
Having slotted rotors gives the gasses an escape route and greatly reduces that source of brake fade.

Just to add some more info, another brake problem is a spongey pedal - when the brake fluid heats up, the rubber brake line can become more flexible and actually balloons under pressure - then you need to apply more pedal for the same braking effect.

My old Daihatsu Applause had very good factory brakes, but they were very one-shot.
In one instance, braking from 160 to 60 worked amazingly well, but then a few seconds later from 160 to 0 was almost impossible - the second stop just ran out of brakes completely.
It did slow down to ~80kph, but then I had to use the hand brake and the gear box, including 1st at ~40kph just to get the thing to stop.
It was definitely NOT a track car with the brakes in stock form.

Yep....gases.......and yes...again...i do know what i'm talking about. Besides.....why on earth do u think that just about every performance oriented vehicle uses slotted discs.....and for certain applications drilled also......it's because they are proven to to IMPROVE the braking performance AND to improve the life of both the disc and pad. NOT JUST TO LOOK PRETTY.
As for you never hearing of HAWK pads......well, i rest my case......they're widely used by some of the top drivers around the country...including Jim Richards in his Porsche, they're an American Friction manufacturer. ...... the cost.....i got the whole lot at Trade including the discs, but retail you would be looking at around $185 for the front Ceramics.

So far the performance of the whole package together is brilliant, the fronts actually get better with more heat, as per most ceramic compounds.....and you can actually feel the rears pulling up in secondary braking too.

Oggy.....you took the words out of my mouth re the Brake fluid, as i mentioned before....it's only done very few k's so far but will be short changed at next oil change.....also, the flexi lines may be replaced with some decent braided ones. Would like to go the whole hog with Dot5 fluid like i raced with but do'nt want the drama of having to replace all the seals due to incompatibility.....

Anyone interested in where i got the parts from....give me a pm......

Cheers,

Pug.
P.S. Pads taken out were the original Factory items.
Cheers,

Pug.

Wow...so what do you say to those many race car's which use blank disc's?

All that cost and effort for the standard shitty floating brake calipers. Even a set of front Evo 6+ Brembos and their stock rotors would have netted you much better gains - and comparable cost.

All that cost and effort for the standard shitty floating brake calipers. Even a set of front Evo 6+ Brembos and their stock rotors would have netted you much better gains - and comparable cost.

No Lucy - He knows what he is talking about.

Tuffy whats with all the negative rubbish?

He's modifying his car the way He wants to, just as you did and still are.
Let him do what he wants and give positive advice where you can, coming out negatively straight off the bat isnt exactly friendly...

I noticed a vast improvement with my brake upgrade which included crossdrilled rotors; but on the same token it also upgraded to rada calipers...
twin piston ftw!

Tuffy whats with all the negative rubbish?

He's modifying his car the way He wants to, just as you did and still are.
Let him do what he wants and give positive advice where you can, coming out negatively straight off the bat isnt exactly friendly...

I noticed a vast improvement with my brake upgrade which included crossdrilled rotors; but on the same token it also upgraded to rada calipers...
twin piston ftw!

Not trying to be negative. I'm pointing out these rotors are all show. there are countless race cars I've seen with massive calipers and blank disc's. It's all a marketing ploy. If you were "serious" about doing a brake upgrade, like luke said, you'd get some decent caliper's first. Not stick with the stock calipers.

Also he's comparing this to crappy worn out OEM pads and rotors. The difference is all in the pads and new rotors.
But meh what do I know.

;1281540']Not trying to be negative. I'm pointing out these rotors are all show.

And nothing on your car is for show?? :bowrofl: :gtfo:

Each to their own I say. I'm sure it will be a big improvement over what it was.

Ok......here we go.......again.....not comparing the new pads with only the originals.....i'm giving an opinion.....in the past have used many different brands.....EBC , ( Race application) Pagid (Racing also), endless.....Lucas....just to name a few.....each with their own benefits and negatives....but, ....on the whole, this set seem to be so far at least as good as the best of the rest, plus the fact they are silent.....and there is virtually no dust, whilst giving great performance.

As for the Calipers.....the front stock Twin Piston's are just fine and give plenty of bite on that size of rotor...........of course, bigger is always better.....or more pistons are definately....but for the cost i outlayed, this set up is perfect.

I stick by what was said prior however, that Physically any disc that is slotted will be more effiecient and last longer without warping than any blank......

Cheers,

Pug.

race cars have blank disks because slotted and especially cross drilled are much more prone to cracking under the immense heat and pressure, but i think you willl find MOST have cross drilled or slotted rotors.
the most effective brake mod i have achieved was getting alloy wheels, and changing the brake fluid. the wheels seem to vent more and the fluid doesnt let the brakes go spongy as easily. i have had my disk red hot, literally glowing, with very small affect on the performace of the brakes, and i use cheap 20 dollar pads, given the last set only lasted 35000 k's, but the disk looks new.

that looks like a nice setup you have though.

Thats a nice set-up Pug.....i'll probably go the same rotors next time around....SKR says theyre good long lasting units.

Excuse the negative green eyed children spamming in here! I guess we cant ignore their vast knowledge and combined 5 yrs or so of experience...........lol

Brake upgrade looks the goods. I know from personal experience that slotted rotors are worth it - quite a big difference in my car when I upgraded. Slotted rotors not only allow the gas to escape as has been mentioned, but they also clean the surface of the pad with the slots allowing a better, fuller contact of pad on disc.

Thankyou Gentlemen.........nice to know the late comers to the subject also carry the required ....and i must say APPRECIATED real knowledge.....

Pug.

;-)

Did my fronts yesterday and removed the stone-splash shields while i was at it......i'll do do the rears tomorrow.

Thats a nice set-up Pug.....i'll probably go the same rotors next time around....SKR says theyre good long lasting units.

Excuse the negative green eyed children spamming in here! I guess we cant ignore their vast knowledge and combined 5 yrs or so of experience...........lol

Yeah, I know nothing! :roll: (wonder how you can go wiring up a whole car?)

And nothing on your car is for show??
Unlike most of the car's here, it actually goes aswell;)


=ticker70]and i must say APPRECIATED real knowledge
Again, I have no knowledge in brakes whatsoever, I have never changed rotors, pads, fluid, or spent money on high performance brake items thus never forming my own opinion on the matter. I Must bow down to you oh braking god. How I dare I enter thy car forum with my noobery on every subject known to man and tell people how for even spirited mountain runs slotted brakes are a waste of money. I must surely have no clue on the subject after seeing and reading about countless 3000GT race car's using nothing but good pads and blank rotors. Again God, I apologize

:facepalm

:facepalm

lol

on a side note, i got a set of bendix ultra premiums 3 days ago for $20 (clearance sale, the pack was damaged), man they are bitey. best pads for feel by far. after they were bed in properly of course.
now i have to do something about the horribly underpowered rear brakes. i think there is something wrong with mine because even with 205mm tyres, in the wet, pushing the brakes about 5 x as hard as it takes to lock up the front wheels, the rear doesnt lock up. 1 thing i am jealous about dads old el work wagon, they lock up front, pretty closely followed by the rear. (i know the rear isnt meant to lock up so the car doesnt spin out, but it makes the brakes really quite shitty.)

...Have to agree there Disciple.......

Keego.......yeh, nothing wrong with the bendix eh.......in fact i am really pleased with the Bendix 4wd compound i put in my rears.....you can feel them really bite in secondary braking......they had that titanium strip in them too which is supposed to make it unnnecessary to bed them in, but i still did it for good measure. They were supposed to be around $115, but got them trade for $92 i think.......would be happy with them in the front to if i had'nt gone the ceramics.

Cheers,

Pug.

I changed my standard blank rotors for same ones as Pug's on my TJ AWD and the change was immediate. With same factory pads the bite improved straight away. Once I wear them out, I'll get a 380 front brake upgrade again with slotted rotors.

The 380 set-up is a minimal improvement over our AWD brakes....hardly worth it. The next step up would be Evo 4 spot calipers & discs IMO.

As a matter of interest what did this all set you back?
My brakes are about ready to be replaced the rotors at least are looking a bit sad..

Hi Hobit....
Sorry for the late reply, i have'nt signed in here for months....

Just looked at the original invoice from exactly a year ago.... and these were the prices and part numbers

FRONT ROTORS DBA 4417 SL -$170 inc gst (Front / Rear Rotors and Hawk Pads purchased from V-SPORT NSW)
DBA 4417 SR -$170 inc gst
REAR ROTORS DBA 4429 SL-$170 inc gst
DBA 4429 SR-$170 inc gst

HAWK CERAMIC FRONT PADS- HB214Z.618 CER $151 inc gst

I also got BENDIX 4WD compound for my rear pads..... cost about $92 trade price from Burson's in Brisbane .

BOUGHT some decent Brake cleaner and Copper slip grease for back of pads...... so all up cost was about $1000

Have done just over 30,000 K's so far and estimate approx 5-8 k left in fronts still. Have never had ANY brake fade or judder, they are silent, and throw virtually no DUST either so i'm happy. When they wear out i may try some of the QFM Performance ones i hear great reports about from guys using them here....

Hope the information helps.....

Cheers,

Pug.

Forgot to mention one thing though........ as good as they are...... they do look a bit SMALL inside my 18's :-( LOL

Hi Hobit....
Sorry for the late reply, i have'nt signed in here for months....

Just looked at the original invoice from exactly a year ago.... and these were the prices and part numbers

FRONT ROTORS DBA 4417 SL -$170 inc gst (Front / Rear Rotors and Hawk Pads purchased from V-SPORT NSW)
DBA 4417 SR -$170 inc gst
REAR ROTORS DBA 4429 SL-$170 inc gst
DBA 4429 SR-$170 inc gst

HAWK CERAMIC FRONT PADS- HB214Z.618 CER $151 inc gst

I also got BENDIX 4WD compound for my rear pads..... cost about $92 trade price from Burson's in Brisbane .

BOUGHT some decent Brake cleaner and Copper slip grease for back of pads...... so all up cost was about $1000

Have done just over 30,000 K's so far and estimate approx 5-8 k left in fronts still. Have never had ANY brake fade or judder, they are silent, and throw virtually no DUST either so i'm happy. When they wear out i may try some of the QFM Performance ones i hear great reports about from guys using them here....

F*** not bad at all!!!
Unfortunately looks like mine will be getting replaced with just stock blank rotors and most likely QFM Pads.. Funds are a little too tight and i have other stuff that needs doing as well (new front shocks, and a tranny service) as the brakes :(