Hi all,
Do any of you guys who have gotten into the performance side of things with the 380 have any info you can give on the standard narrow band 02 sensors (Make/model, voltage range, AFR equivalency). I'm trying to map the AFR's to the voltages from the 02 sensors, and have composed a fairly good (for narrow band) graph of the voltage fluctation at the various load points, but don't have any real world AFR readings to compare them to (lots of generic info/tables out there for other cars etc. but not for the 380).

What I'm after is a real world voltage to AFR table, specific to a 380. i.e. I know that at 0.85 Volts the mix is very rich, but whether it's 11.5:1 or 10.5:1 isn't clear.
I know I can take it to someone with a dyno and a wide band meter, but I'm trying to get a map together first because I'm pretty sure they're going to sneer at my silicon chip voltage interceptor kit as a mode of tuning, and not bother to help unless I buy a $700 dollar piggyback, and I'm not interested in getting into this argument

Cheers,
RG

I can do a log printout on my laptop but it is the LPG kit

Why don'y you purchase an AEM Wideband kit?
Comes with the oxy sensor, the bung to get welded into the exhaust, a gauge (with 5 faces/bezels) and a very nifty wiring loom for about $260

You only need to power it with - and + so it's VERY easy to get working.

Main point is, you can log with it out of the box. Just need a laptop and to hook one of the wires up to an RS232 connection.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/AEM-GAUGE-6-in-1-TYPE-WIDEBAND-UEGO-CONTROLLER-30-4100-/300380046100?cmd=ViewItem&pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45f00bc314

From this not only can you log whats happening (never used the built in log function so I'm not sure just how it works and what it will look like) But also if you did get it dyno tuned, or if you use a piggyback you can use it to do realtime tuning :) but you already knew that so I'll stop talking now

I can do a log printout on my laptop but it is the LPG kit

Pretty sure the LPG tune is too different . Thanks anyway mate, would've been very useful otherwise
Anyone with a petrol engine?

;1279309']Why don'y you purchase an AEM Wideband kit?
Comes with the oxy sensor, the bung to get welded into the exhaust, a gauge (with 5 faces/bezels) and a very nifty wiring loom for about $260

You only need to power it with - and + so it's VERY easy to get working.

Main point is, you can log with it out of the box. Just need a laptop and to hook one of the wires up to an RS232 connection.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/AEM-GAUGE-6-in-1-TYPE-WIDEBAND-UEGO-CONTROLLER-30-4100-/300380046100?cmd=ViewItem&pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45f00bc314

From this not only can you log whats happening (never used the built in log function so I'm not sure just how it works and what it will look like) But also if you did get it dyno tuned, or if you use a piggyback you can use it to do realtime tuning :) but you already knew that so I'll stop talking now

heh! you're as bad as some of the others with the expensive kit recommendations. Obviously you haven't cottoned on to what a tightarse I am yet lol. Thanks , but I've seen a few of these kits and I just don't want to spend that sort of money. Seriously tho' I can get Binenca Auto to dyno and tune it with me using their AFR for about $200, and I don't expect to be doing it once a week.
In fact I've already got a gauge , just need a Wideband sensor , and didn't even want to part with $150 for that lol!
The thing is , there are a lot of changes I want to make to the car overall, and so I have to keep to a tight budget (no good getting the AFR if I then don't have enough cash for an important mod like the exhaust)
Even if I have to go down to Binenca , once I know what AFR's match what voltages, even just using the narrow band sensor readings, I should be able to tune with these (if I even need to again) until I can source a cheap wideband

BTW I heard a rumour that the front 02 sensor on each bank might actually be a WB and only the rears are Narrow, anyone confirm or deny? I thought they were all narrow band. They all certianly seem to be 0-1v but I guess you could have a 0-1V WB, just a bit rarer I suppose

You have a $10,000+ car don't be cheap with modifications!

Also factor in, everytime you do do a new modification you can use the wideband and any potential ECU software to do changes yourself.....Saving you money on a dyno.
What I do now is (since I've had the cam gears adjusted) go for a drive and log it, come home, view log, alter fuel map to suit more or less fuel, upload map the next day, log that day...change...etc etc....

I mean hey your trying to do good by getting this list of voltage vs AFR made up to use which is always good.........but this is the much easier way in the long run!
Anyway....good luck with your research!

;1279486']You have a $10,000+ car don't be cheap with modifications!

Also factor in, everytime you do do a new modification you can use the wideband and any potential ECU software to do changes yourself.....Saving you money on a dyno.
What I do now is (since I've had the cam gears adjusted) go for a drive and log it, come home, view log, alter fuel map to suit more or less fuel, upload map the next day, log that day...change...etc etc....

I mean hey your trying to do good by getting this list of voltage vs AFR made up to use which is always good.........but this is the much easier way in the long run!
Anyway....good luck with your research!

Thanks mate, I agree this would be a valuable tool, I'd love to have one and am still trying to source a cheap sensor to go with my AFR meter. It's just a bit like the Federal budget, not enough to buy everything, so I have to focus the cash on the stuff I can't get around.
Actually I rang Mitsubishi today , still trying to find out if either of the stock sensors is a WB and how much to get a spare , but nobody there knows, they just get a part number and that's it
I'll keep looking...

Hi all,
Do any of you guys who have gotten into the performance side of things with the 380 have any info you can give on the standard narrow band 02 sensors (Make/model, voltage range, AFR equivalency). I'm trying to map the AFR's to the voltages from the 02 sensors, and have composed a fairly good (for narrow band) graph of the voltage fluctation at the various load points, but don't have any real world AFR readings to compare them to (lots of generic info/tables out there for other cars etc. but not for the 380).

What I'm after is a real world voltage to AFR table, specific to a 380. i.e. I know that at 0.85 Volts the mix is very rich, but whether it's 11.5:1 or 10.5:1 isn't clear.
I know I can take it to someone with a dyno and a wide band meter, but I'm trying to get a map together first because I'm pretty sure they're going to sneer at my silicon chip voltage interceptor kit as a mode of tuning, and not bother to help unless I buy a $700 dollar piggyback, and I'm not interested in getting into this argument

Cheers,
RG


:bump:

C'mon Guys! Knotched , Mecha, Kif, Alan J, Foozrcool, kj380, Sh00t, anyone!......oh yeh!, I'll name names!! Someone must have the goods...... puleeze!

:bouncin:

BTW, strangely Binenca auto didn't sneer at my silicon chip kit at all, but in fact were familiar with it and happy to work with it, although they expressed concern that the ECU might error check against the 02 sensors and MAP sensor even in open loop and re-learn it's way back
If you guys let me dow.... I mean if I don't get anything from the forum :tantrum: I'll probably take Joe Binenca up on his offer of $200 to help me dyno and tune it (will end up doing it eventually , would just like to spread the cost out a little)

Can't really help, mate. I let Chiptorque do it all for me, so didn't need to get down to that level.

It's difficult for the 380 because the techs at Mitsu seem to have disappeared into the ether when the plant stopped. Dave TJ seemed to know a fair bit about tuning and I suspect he may have been part of the team.

Can't really help, mate. I let Chiptorque do it all for me, so didn't need to get down to that level.

It's difficult for the 380 because the techs at Mitsu seem to have disappeared into the ether when the plant stopped. Dave TJ seemed to know a fair bit about tuning and I suspect he may have been part of the team.

heh , no worries mate. Don't mind my rant.
The main reason I really want some voltage figures from other people is that the voltages I'm seeing would indicate a slightly leaner condition than most people have talked about on this forum as typical for a 380.
Mine don't go above 0.86 volts which is rich , but would generally map to somewhere between 12:1 and 13:1 depending on the sensor, and most people on here who've seen any kind of readings have mentioned mixtures as rich as 9.6 and 10:1 (although they didn't say under what load , but I assume WOT)

I'm wondering if my boring the MAF screen has had a way bigger leaning effect than I imagined. If so, then I'm proabably wasting my time attempting any further tuning unless I actually block some holes in the MAF screen off again. Probably explains why my car seems to go like rabbit sh*t out of a shanghai already.
Don't suppose Dave TJ still posts does he?

Blackstar may have some contacts - PM is your friend.

Blackstar may have some contacts - PM is your friend.

Thanks for the tip. Here's where I fess up to the fact that I'm not much of a user of Internet Forums, so I didn't actually know I could just go ahead and do this.
Cheers

Thanks for the tip. Here's where I fess up to the fact that I'm not much of a user of Internet Forums, so I didn't actually know I could just go ahead and do this.
Cheers

As an update for anyone actually interested, it seems the factory bosch sensor doesn't really do 0-1V but more like 100mV to 900mV as a range, so 0.86-0.88V is a pretty normal reading of very rich. However , apparentley the hysteresis is so bad that this could mean anything from 14:1 to 10:1 with nobody knowing which, except the guys who did the calibration at bosch and tonsley (who are all long gone from both sides of the fence)
Short story is : Bung a Wideband sensor in before a cat or bust
............ <goes off to source a WB sensor from somewhere>

As an update for anyone actually interested, it seems the factory bosch sensor doesn't really do 0-1V but more like 100mV to 900mV as a range, so 0.86-0.88V is a pretty normal reading of very rich. However , apparentley the hysteresis is so bad that this could mean anything from 14:1 to 10:1 with nobody knowing which, except the guys who did the calibration at bosch and tonsley (who are all long gone from both sides of the fence)
Short story is : Bung a Wideband sensor in before a cat or bust
............ <goes off to source a WB sensor from somewhere>

Isn't that the case with most narrowband sensors?
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2004/10/Innovate/images/graphNarrowBand.gif
i.e. the sensor only realllllllly wants to know when stoich is, everything else can be either very lean or very rich.
AEM wideband is the way to go!

With my larger injectors, piggyback & blower setup I get "too rich at idle" & too lean off idle" codes or maybe the other way around, can't remember. I'm running the factory O2 sensors so they must be sensing something is different than 'normal' with my setup.

Do you have some sort of piggyback? Without altering say a MAF signal, at idle it will most def run richer.

;1280688']Do you have some sort of piggyback? Without altering say a MAF signal, at idle it will most def run richer.

Yep running a Unichip Q. I know at WOT I'm running 11.8 right through the rev range not sure about idle & part throttle. Running a bit on the rich side as a safety for the blower.

Without trying to spam the thread, interesting...is this just a "safety" thing or does it ACTUALLY NEED to run richer at idle? My idle is about 13.8-14.2:1....my part throttle is all 15.5-16:1ish

AEM wideband is so handy though....for ANYONE running some serious engine work or an aftermarket ECU.....seeing what is happening in real time is fantastic...I data log all my runs and then make acute changes to the MAP at home.

Like I said not sure of AFR at idle as I didn't have anything to do with the tuning. It might be a case of the Unichip Q can only scale the larger injectors back so far at idle & part throttle. At WOT in boost it won't be a problem though as a lot more fuel is required.

RG I have NFI

you are pioneering with this stuff The corolla had already being "tuned" engine wise and well I have no idea this is like black magic to me