Gday everyone, doing a timing belt on my 2000 model TH today as the chattering belt noise when cold has been happening for a while now but do i REALLY need to replace the hydraulic tensioner as well or can I get away with just belts seals & pulleys etc ??

the cars done 235,000K on the original timing belt !.. the belt is very sloppy when the engines cold but after running it a few seconds and recheck the belt is tight!, typical of the hydraulic tensioner but my question is Q: is the tensioner bleeding down over night OR is the belt simply that old & warn the tensioner cant take it up any longer ?

the tensioner its self costs more than the full belt kit !!.. REALLY dont want to do it if I can get away with it the pockets really hurting ... if i have to do the hydro tensioner as well im looking at over $500 in parts alone @ thats trade price - OUCH !!

i think you need it. you may just put the belt on, then drive down the road and be up for a new engine. thats crazy that it made 235k on the original belt.

literally driving a time bomb

After that age, personally, I'd be replacing it. Better to do it now while its all apart then have it fail within the next few months and you'll have to do it all again.

And yeah, it bleeds down overnight to loosen tension on the belt.

235K on OEM Belt? Jesus playing with fire there...

I had the tensioner done on my TL earlier in the year due to the same issue you are describing, when I had the TB replaced. The tensioner is failing... which is why you are getting that horrible sound when it is cold on starting up - replacing the belt alone won't fix it.

RE: $$$ - tensioner set me back approx $200, so not a significant cost as a part. A good proportion of the cost in getting it done with the TB is labour.

The tensioner would be taking up the slack with some difficulty if the belt is that old, it would be quite stretched. It takes a while for oil pressure to build up, and the tensioner to move out. I'm not in favour of replacing parts on the "it might be worn out" theory, so I'm suggesting that you examine it carefully before you junk it. Perhaps with a new belt, properly tensioned by the other, non hydraulic tensioner, the hydraulic tensioner will function perfectly. If the hydraulic tensioner checks out ok off the car, I would not hesitate to put it back. There is some risk that it will act up, and you would be doing the job again, but having done the belt off/ belt on job before you would be able to do it easily. Your choice.

I would be more concerned about the water pump and idler bearings, check for rough turning and bearing play.

If you find everything needs replacing, you can get the full kit, belt, idlers, seals, water pump at a good price from the US of A, despite the horrendous postage costs.

Service manual says the belt should be replaced at 5 years or 100,000 km. You have gone twice the time and 2.3 times the distance, just goes to show how much of a safety margin in built in. (Or were you just lucky?)

The common wisdom on this forum is that only the belt gets changed at 100,000 but at 200,000 everything get changed. If you pay someone to do so, a lot of people hesitate at the cost and sell the car off cheaply. lol Lots of Magnas with about 200,000 km on the clock on the used car market, usually described as "reliable, never had a problem with it, good for years to come." lol

"im' not in favour of replacing parts on the "it might be worn out" theory .,. wasnt the response I was expecting but - 100%.. dont like wasting time but hell its better than wasting money when the funds are limited..

yeah I know 235,000 is mad, my mate in Brisbane bought it at 75,000 with advise to do the belt within 25,000 or void warrenty, 6 years later he never done the belt & I purchased the car cheap with a few dents!! .. I have the belt exposed now & it is the factory mitsubishi belt lol.. last time I started the car it sounded like the belt was going to jump off & smash stuff so I parked it in the yard & started to take the thing apart

anyway so these things are designed to bleed down over night ? thats NOT just mine being silly ?? .. thats a good thing coz at 235,000 that belt has to be streatched, suppose all I can do is take the tensioner off & inspect it like Max said, if anyone knows how to determine a good from a bad tensioner please let me know, im not a mechanic im just a backyarder doing all I can to fix my car without spending all my gillards !!

Look for oil leaks around the tensioner before you pull it off, use a vice to compress it, release and see if the tensioner returns to the full out position. Check the shaft for scores and wear marks, especially on the end that does the pushing. Check the oil hole in it and the engine for blockage. If it checks out, its good to go back on. Getting the right tension on the non hydraulic idler is important, as are all the torque settings on the bits you have removed. Read and understand the correct procedure in the manual.

Second gen is easy compared to the third gen, a big spring sets the tension for you, can't go wrong on the TS V6 really. lol

ok thanks HEAPs all, I feel much more at ease now i know exactly what im looking for/ how to check it .. I done a belt on a 3.0 pajero a couple months back & that was piece of cake so fingers crossed !!..

i will go back out to the yard & see how much more I can get done before it rains again :) .. will keep you posted & thanks again for your time guys

Hey! Good luck and enjoy! Can you do me a big favour and photograph the teeth on the old belt when you can? I always wanted to see how these belts hold up at crazy mileages! lol

yes mate definitely will, the belt actually doesnt look to bad for wear but its stretched to buggery !!.. i show you later tonight. One more quick question, when you say "idler bearings" are you talking about the 2x "pulley" style thingos that come in the kit with the belt & 3 seals for like 200buks ?

Oh, I thought you were going to keep the old pulleys, but if you have new ones ignore what I said and use the new ones. I thought you just had the belt, but you have the kit. Don't do the seals if they are not leaking, my car was done at 200,000 km but the mechanic who did the belt change (before I bought the car) got the crank seal in wrong and I had to replace the seal and belt through oil contamination at 240,000 km. If you replace that seal, look at the crank carefully and see where the oil seal lip needs to sit, and don't hammer it in. The seal I took out had been hammered and was distorted, with the lip not sitting correctly on the crank etc.

naah I havent bought a kit yet coz I wasnt sure of the stage I needed.. but I will get the one with the 2x idler bearings & 3 seals .. im skipping water pump & hydraulic tensioner if I can coz I just cant afford to be doing this right now but i need to do a belt before i have to do a whole engine so this is a safety thing for me right now NOT a "lets do everything while were there" thing.. as much as id like to do everything $$$ ... id also like a new car but $$

m@tt - You will need one of these and a 1/4" torque wrench to do the job "to spec"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MITSUBISHI-TIMING-BELT-TOOL-DSM-ECLIPSE-4G63-EVO-3000GT-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ140438151357QQptZMotorsQ5f AutomotiveQ5fTools

Means you apply a certain amount of torque to the (cant for the life of me think of the name of the part but has 2 little holes in it) something tensioner (see there <<< lol) the one that the hyraulic tensioner push's on.

Also when you put the hydraulic tensioner in the vice, wind the vice back SLOWLY 1/4 turn by 1/4 is how I was told to do it and to keep the piston in the tensioner use a very thin allen key

;1293010']m@tt - You will need one of these and a 1/4" torque wrench to do the job "to spec"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MITSUBISHI-TIMING-BELT-TOOL-DSM-ECLIPSE-4G63-EVO-3000GT-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ140438151357QQptZMotorsQ5f AutomotiveQ5fTools


+1

These things are pro (havent used mine yet though :P)

They're tiny and look like they're easy to lose, but worth it for $30

Check the oil hole in it and the engine for blockage


It takes a while for oil pressure to build up, and the tensioner to move out.



what you talking about madmax.... u ever pulled a hyd. tensior off a 3rd gen?

Don't bother flaming me, I'm not going to respond. You will just look silly having an argument by yourself, gremlin.

Don't bother flaming me, I'm not going to respond. You will just look silly having an argument by yourself, gremlin.

hahaha gold response... i wont argue with you, ill just correct you so the OP gets correct info

to the OP .... 200,000 + kms tensior... personally id change it... in saying that i pulled out an original one a few weeks ago that was 280,000kms old (tensior that is) and it was ok..

tensior might not be your current problem but id still change it if i was you

tensior doesnt feed oil from the engine, ignore that... there are no holes to check, no seals to replace for the tensior itself..

Stupid 4am toothach :( sulk moan wHinge ///... frown

Gday Gremlin, yeah i did notice its self maintained .. thanx

how did you come to the conclusion the 280,000k tensioner was OK? .. im still not 100% on a way to say for sure if there good or not. Those silly tensioners shouldnt need replacing to often surely ?? I mean a bit over $200 when the timing belt kit its self is only like $190 for the 3seals 2idler pulleys & the belt.. a bit rude of mitsubishi to throw in these expensive little serviceable nastys isnt it I mean the 3.0 timing belt setup works ok without this hydro thing, makes for a damn expensive timing belt job specially if your getting all this done at a workshop you would get little change from a thousand buks ? ahh I dunno dont get me wrong I love the magna but I hate it at the same time lol.. its a great thing to drive but a scary thing to work on & shell out parts money for haha ahh i hate disposing of money - im such a tite a$$ :) better shuddup now before i get told to go buy a commodore :) .. anyone got a good VT they wanna swap for this magna ??/ lol nah just jokin'

I didnt take pix last night Max coz by the time I got the thing apart I was to filthy dirty to use the MRS's camera lol.. I will do it today before i get dirty

Youy can get a hydraulic tensioner from www.rockauto.com
A Dorman aftermarket one landed in the Sydney area at your front door with freight and exchange for $71
A genuine Dayco one landed in Sydney $102
Search under "mitsubishi, 2000, Diamante, G674 engine, Hydraulic Tensioner"
It will arrive in 5 days.

OK, I confess, I've never been up close and intimate with a third gen hydraulic tensioner. If they don't get fed with engine oil under pressure, why are they slack when the engine is off, and how do they work? If it has its own internal hydraulic oil supply, it would act more like a belt vibration damper than a tensioner? I'm going to buy a third gen and pull it apart just to see. . . . .

JohnVRAWD is right though, shipping from the US of A is fast (and expensive) but the car bits from rockauto are cheap enough to make it very worth while. I have bought a full gasket set for the gen 2 from them at half the price of the local product, and that included shipping.

Those silly tensioners shouldnt need replacing to often surely ?? I mean a bit over $200 when the timing belt kit its self is only like $190 for the 3seals 2idler pulleys & the belt..

When I spoke to the service dept at Mits, apparently not uncommon for tensioners to fail on these cars, I'd just bite the bullet and get it replaced. I bought my car at 76,000kms and the tensioner was already in need of replacement - I put up with it for 9 or so months and had it replaced with the timing belt (& glad that I did).

i cant see why some tensioners last forever and some need replacing so early in an engines life. with my own V6 ( a grey import ) i found the tensioner pivot bush was seized , and had been like that for ages. engine was still running ok though , so i replaced the belt and re used the tensioner and its still ok.
my personal suggestion - for people who are capable of replacing timing belts themselves ,they may be able to take the risk of not replacing the tensioner. but for those who cant , get it done !

ok heres a couple pix the GF took for me today coz I was once again to grubby to use the camera lol, I know there not great I will take more later on if needed.

tensioner seems to work well from what i can see, its surprisingly tight to pump up in the vice & releases perfectly, only thing that worried me was the yellow stuff on the back you can see in the pic, looks like its just grease not hydraulic fluid but im not sure thats why I thought I best ask.. there is a hole on the back near the grease maybe its just a protective thing to stop weather getting in ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/matt29502/stuff/IMGP0497.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/matt29502/stuff/IMGP0498.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/matt29502/stuff/IMGP0502.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/matt29502/stuff/IMGP0500.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/matt29502/stuff/IMGP0501.jpg

Belt looks good, I'm surprised. The tensioner lookes stuffed to me, but I'm no expert on them. Where did all that grot come from? Perhaps give it a good clean, then work the plunger up and down a few times, and see it it is bleeding whatever fluid is in there?

yeah the plundger thing comes in and out really well and theres no leaks at the front of it near the bore or anything like that .. its REAL tight in the vise to compress it & it releases perfectly .. The back end of the tensioner (end with the grot) is exposed, its down near the power steering pump, its no surprise that its a bit grubby considering where it is I was just a bit concerned about the yellow grease stuff. Just hope its not the "hydraulic" goope its self coming out ..

after putting it in the vise & seeing how tight it is, im almost convinced its working fine ? would expect a dead one to be to easy to compress OR not return after being compressed or something like that

Tensioner is dirty as it hangs outside the engine, no other reason

The yellowish grease is cv grease, it is common for the inner boot to weep around the larger end where the clip is, you will notice it up the firewall, k frame and back of the power steering pump

I really hope you have either made or purchased the correct tool to re tension the belt when you put it all back together

That explains the mess on it. lol Sounds like it is working as it should.

Thanks MadMagna, sounds like I better regrease & seal that CV then to before it goes dry !!.. good tip, thnx..

Yeha Max the belt looks fine mate, no sign of wear until compaired to the new one you can tell its got some stretch, just noticeable.. enough to make that pre-tensioner struggle to work properly anyway

is it just me or these blue dayco replacement seals a pain in the but?.. i got it greasy N oily slipery as but can NOT get it on the crank without the stupid spring falling off the back of it ?.. I must have tried 30 times before I distroyed the thing

fit heaps of the black & brown ones in the past & never had a issue but this blue dayco things annoying the crap out of me, it ended up with a screwdriver through the side of it anyway so i gota replace it tomorrow morning :( the dayco cam seals might be easier but that silly BLUE DAYCO crank seal really sucked!

Youy can get a hydraulic tensioner from www.rockauto.com
A Dorman aftermarket one landed in the Sydney area at your front door with freight and exchange for $71
A genuine Dayco one landed in Sydney $102
Search under "mitsubishi, 2000, Diamante, G674 engine, Hydraulic Tensioner"
It will arrive in 5 days.

Can you provide a link, as I cant seem to find it....

I really hope you have either made or purchased the correct tool to re tension the belt when you put it all back together

welded 2 pins off a 1/2 inch socket so I can get my 1/2" torque wrench onto it.. That was the best I could come up with !

welded 2 pins off a 1/2 inch socket so I can get my 1/2" torque wrench onto it.. That was the best I could come up with !

Legend!! Very inventive, and now you can sell 'em to the rest of us for $30- a pop! What you've done should do the job nicely as long as you have room to get the 1/2" tension wrench in there.

You've seen TUFFTR's post above about using a small allen-key or similar to hold the hydraulic tensioner back in its bore while you refit parts? Apparently, if you get the correct tension on the new belt with your makeshift tool twisting the idler pulley - then you should be just able to pull the allen-key (or whatever you use) from the tiny hole and release the Hydraulic tensioner. Ie: correct belt tension should just overcome the friction on the allen-key....

Hope it goes well! Did the water pump look OK?

Yep - that's how you know the belt is tensioned correctly with the tool - the pin, or nail, or allen key, should slide out easily to release the plunger on the hydraulic tensioner.

hmm ok I had a FAIL on the 1/2" torque wrench, theres plenty of room for it to fit in there but it only goes down to about 15/20NM minimum.. my mate has a 3/8 torque wrench he uses for transmissions I will go grab that if hes kind enough to let me take it, and make another dodgey tool out of a 3/8 socket.. 1/2" = fail

I know im taking my time but im in no rush, ive been spending a hour on it here & there doing other stuff as well, its not a priority job or anything still got my pajero to drive ! + it keeps raining on me

I would not bother with a torque wrench. Just apply some torque with your 1/2" tool, and check with the other hand that the pin in the hydraulic tensioner is free to move. Then hold the torque on the pulley, while you tighten its bolt up. When the pin slides easily in and out of the hole, you know the pulley is set correctly. (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm talking BS.)

Sorry mate you are talking BS (well you asked)

The torque is vital as it is designed this way to ensure that the belt itself is under the tension and not sitting slack on the other side, the pulley is sitting up square against the belt etc etc

Thus why a specified torque is set.

ok then! I've learnt something new.

hmm I dunno Id really like to see the torque on that idler set correctly, call me a fuss pot just theres some things with cars that need to be done proper & this is probly one of them !!..

back yard mechanical repairs are only as dodgey as the back yarder himself !!

Yep, do it once and do it properly. I don't actually own a 3rd gen (yet), when I do and its time to change the belt I will see if my little shortcut is feasible. Madmagna says do it by the book, and he is the local guru, mmm, yes, enough said. Carry on!

My mental image of Madmagna

http://www.xaraxone.com/FeaturedArt/zeb/assets/images/guru.jpg

No offense intended! The book should be labelled "Magna bible"

I just wanted to say that those kms on an original belt is insane and I would strongly urge you to mount the belt in a frame and hang it on your wall. I would be because that has to be the most awesome timing belt EVER.

nah! It looked good enough for another 200,000 km. The original manufacturer (assuming Mitsu don't make their own belts) might like it in their museum though!

nah! It looked good enough for another 200,000 km. The original manufacturer (assuming Mitsu don't make their own belts) might like it in their museum though!

I know the Lancer timing belts are made by Dayco. I bought a genuine one for a Lancer I modded and sure enough it was stamped with Dayco.
Good bless em.

haha good one, might do that!! its actually not in to bad shape really, i wouldnt hesitate to use it again (if i was desperate) once retensioned coz it had stretched a bit .. & yeah Max its Mitsubishi Belt, if you have a good look at my shabby pix you can see it written on it .. just

pressing the tensioner in and out in a vice isn't really an accurate check of how good the tensioner is. Mine went at around 45-50,000kms and it would be slack on cold and once the engine was restarted it would be tight, sounds the same as yours. So there's a good chance when you compress the old one in the vice it will be fine. Once the car had restarted the tensioner was working fine, it was only dodgy on start up where it couldn't tension the belt, after that it was fine. I didn't replace it until 103,000kms but I never let the car run with it rattling. I would turn the engine off and restart it, and 99% of the time the noise went away on the 1st restart and the belt was tensioned properly. . I have the old one in the shed and it looks like new, still didn't work properly on start-up though. I got the new one from bearing traders, it was a good price at the time. If you're going to all the trouble of fitting a new belt then it would be wise to fit a new tensioner but you may get away with it if you don't let the car run with it rattling.

hmm ok Steve, Im not sure what to think mate im getting mixed reports, pretty convinced this one of mine is working as it should but it might surprise me yet. Was that 45 - 50,000 after a timing belt was replaced or total Klms on the car from brand new ?

in my case the idler pulley tensioner thingy had lost all tension (from belt stretch) its meant to have 5nm of torque on it, mine had zero nm!.. the belt was sloppy when cold you could pick the belt up from the top of a cam gear and clear it from the teeth, very VERY bad .. soon as the hydro tensioner kicked in the belt got tension! ..

General info for anyone following this thread wanting to replace the whole lot in one go without spending the dosh for local parts:

What a fresh one looks like.

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getimage.php?imageurl=http%3A%2F%2Finfo.rockauto.c om%2FRB%2F420-106-007.jpg&imagekey=1268424-0&width=450

$50 odd dollars US from rockauto, they also do the full kit (belt, 2 idlers, water pump. no seals or hydraulic tensioner) for about $80 US, postage and conversion to AU $ doubles this, easily, arrives in a week or so.

Sorry - a bit OT. So, I've got a tappety tappety noise coming from around the timing belt and my neighbour says "timing belt needs adjusting". I'm seeing Mal Thursday - what's my risk level here? She's driving fine, is it possible it could just go kablooey on me and the belt comes off (have been there once, never want to go there again). It's come and gone a couple of times since Sunday. Realistically, have around 200km's driving in the next day and a half.

only when cold or all the time ?.. if it only happens when cold have you tried starting it & switching it straight off, waiting 10 seconds then restarting

Coming and going, but may have been all the time on the way home tonight. Was better when I got home, left it for 30 minutes and then put her away. Definitely changes note when I hit the accelerator - noise speeds up (sorry, know next to nothing about cars).

And absolutely no noise when starting up this morning. So, now I know to ensure there's no noise on start up, don't stress her and see MadMagna tomorrow to fix. Thanks!

im sure mad will sort you out !

I just wanted to say that those kms on an original belt is insane and I would strongly urge you to mount the belt in a frame and hang it on your wall. I would be because that has to be the most awesome timing belt EVER.

I 'll raise you a few more Klm. LOL. Years ago I bought an R31 Skyline that had 275,000 klm on it. Original T belt. When I changed it, the old belt literally fell off once the tensioner was released. Had to lever the new belt on with a screwdriver. Made a big difference in performance.
Too bad the Magna's not as easy to change as the old skyline though.
fre00z

Yes mine pretty much fell off to lolol, was very unhealthy!! some seem to make this job out to be painfull but im not sure what all the jumping up & down is about myself, fiddly & a bit tedious but easy enough really, well if you have a general mechanical understanding its easy anyway, id rather do a belt on a magna than many other cars, its really pretty straight fwd!.. only have to move one engine mount out of the way & you can go for it .. I done mine in the back yard with a selection of different size & shaped axes & hatchets, spanners, a mates torque wrench.. a lump of wood. LOL.. -barbarian

theres been easier jobs, but theres been lots harder to !!

Hi Madmagna Trev here, is this the tool i need to correctly retention the timing belt, MITSUBISHI TIMING BELT TOOL MD998767 and how many NM do i need,i assume i can use my small tension wrench,i think it goes as low as 2.5nm i did my tappet covers with it.

Go to the Gates Belts page on replacing tensioners and be sure to follow the instructions.

The "cam" pulley (the one with the offset bearing shaft) is used to adjust the tension on the belt, I have always fitted the belt - checked the timing, rotated the engine 2 to 3 times by hand and then made a cup of coffee - gone back and made sure the tensioner was extended as per the manual - if not adjust and drink again....