Hey everyone, after fitting the extractors I'm trying to find a way to get rid of the big restriction caused by the LPG mixer ring before the Throttle body.. diamater is about 40mm :(

I found these things, they sound good in theory, anyone used or seen one before?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/BLOS-Propane-Carburetor-LPG-Mixer-Replacement-NEW-/220652711932?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item335fed2ffc

Damn looks good on paper, i have got same problem as you. Extractors, cold air intake (just ducting), & intake manifold (from RPW) all cant realize their full potential cause of damn mixer choking air supply. Im gonna drive to few places around my area & ask if they can fit it. Im willing to try it out. Ill actually get my car on the dyno first to see if it actually makes the diff

The wife gave me the ok to buy one in a few weeks, I'm definately going to grab one, it may fix the LPG acceleration issues I've been having which are getting worse the more I mod intake and exhaust???, if not atleast it should give some power back when on PULP.

Yea that would be my main goal, is to get power back when in petrol mode... The only thing that im not sure about is that its says vehicles with 80 to over 200hp, how much more over is it? I mean at stock me are 207hp (at the flywheel)..............

Very interested in your findings with this guys. Keep us updated!

Hmm, 200HP = 150kw..
it would be interesting to see what figures we're currently getting from the standard mixer setup..

Given that the BLOS has a bigger diameter opening I'd have to say it would give more power.
Based on the figures listed if stock we do 146kw then with the mixer we're only getting around 110ULP 95LPG..
So, even if it maxes out at 150kw it's still better than 110 and 95? that's more than a 50% increase for LPG.. I'm a bit skeptical that that is possible..

Just for fun I turned off my LPG and removed the mixer ring (and sealed up the hole in the intake) then did an hour drive around town on PULP.. I don't want to put the mixer back in now :(
So, I will get one even if just to get the power back on PULP, I drive my car around town on PULP and LPG out of town, but if I can get rid of the accelleration lean out on LPG with one of these and get more power I may go to using PULP just to keep everything running on petrol..

I'm wondering how 'legal' these are on a closed loop system.
Everything from the converter to mixer comes out including the stepper\power valve. Which is good because my problems lie between the power valve/stepper and mixer.

I guess I could pull the guts out of the stepper motor (not working correctly now) so it doesn't try to adjust the mixture and leave it there just to retain the closed loop look, who would know unless they take the stepper off and look at it?.
From what i can tell though you set the idle on the converter as normal then the BLOS has another two adjustments for idle and an adjustment similar to the power valve/stepper motor.
Unlike a manual power valve which is set at a constant this will adjust the mixture along with the suction change so it will be more effective than the manual power valve I currently have in.

The fact that my accelleration issues have increased along with exhaust and intake mods suggests that the current setup is maxing out in spots and can't add enough LPG to the air coming in.
The BLOS in theory will fix this.. I'm very excited about getting one of these..

Same here man, i will buy one today, i assume it was you who posted a question on eBay in regards to postage... So we ll have to wait 3 weeks :(

Same here man, i will buy one today, i assume it was you who posted a question on eBay in regards to postage... So we ll have to wait 3 weeks :(

No, that wasn't me but handy to know lol

Hye how much difference you rekon taking out your mixer makes? I mean was it like a little bit or like driving two different cars??

Just wondering how that LPG carb can enhance the flow characteristics of your intake when the orifice of the carb thing looks about half the size of your stock throttle body.

If you are after a less restrictive LPG mixer there are plenty of aftermarket ones available.. Just a matter of finding one to match your intake! If your car runs out of puff on LPG then you generally need a bigger converter as all the mixer does is mix the vapourized LPG with air in the intake ducting.

Let us know how everything goes as I too am interested to how this all works & whether it ends up being beneficial!

Hye how much difference you rekon taking out your mixer makes? I mean was it like a little bit or like driving two different cars??

Somewhere between a little bit and driving two different cars lol..

Just wondering how that LPG carb can enhance the flow characteristics of your intake when the orifice of the carb thing looks about half the size of your stock throttle body.

If you are after a less restrictive LPG mixer there are plenty of aftermarket ones available.. Just a matter of finding one to match your intake! If your car runs out of puff on LPG then you generally need a bigger converter as all the mixer does is mix the vapourized LPG with air in the intake ducting.

Let us know how everything goes as I too am interested to how this all works & whether it ends up being beneficial!

I'm also wondering the same thing, but considering the mixer ring is half the size already then it can't be any worse, perhaps it's due to the shape of it?

Going to try one of these instead of the BLOS, seems more 'legal' and should have better flow on PULP, not too concerned about power increases on LPG as I use LPG for the price not performance.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/LPG-Propane-Autogas-STREAM-MIXER-MORE-POWER-LOOK-/220655570940?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item336018cffc

OK, taking the mixer out makes a massive difference, I didn't notice until I put it back in to go for a long drive, it's still in and it's sucked away all the torque and power, feels like crap to drive, absolute sluggy crap..
Even my wife noticed and she never notices performance improvements.
I'm definately buying a BLOS.

Just wondering how that LPG carb can enhance the flow characteristics of your intake when the orifice of the carb thing looks about half the size of your stock throttle body.

If you are after a less restrictive LPG mixer there are plenty of aftermarket ones available.. Just a matter of finding one to match your intake! If your car runs out of puff on LPG then you generally need a bigger converter as all the mixer does is mix the vapourized LPG with air in the intake ducting.

Let us know how everything goes as I too am interested to how this all works & whether it ends up being beneficial!

From what I can tell it's something to do with the cone shape that's less restrictive..

This is interesting! Probably explains why my old car always seemed to loose power mid-way through the rev range for a brief moment running on LPG, the mixer could've been choking it at the intake. Funny how you find these things out after! lol

I couldn't wait, so i pulled out my mixer ring as well, it definitely drives a lot harder especially at higher rpms.....

I couldn't wait, so i pulled out my mixer ring as well, it definitely drives a lot harder especially at higher rpms.....

lol obviously. the restriction is meant to work like a typical carby setup with a venturi style effect pulling gas in.

It'd be great to see if this idea worked, I'd love to put the diamante on gas. but weighing 1800kg it's already got enough of a disadvantage as is lol

Ordered my BLOS today, will post results when I have some.

Still not sure on legality of these.. You have to take out your stepper motor, so there's no O2 feedback, but it controls the mixture as well if not better than the stepper anyway.

Idea, put the stuffed stepper motor back in but pull the guts out so it doesn't work and is stuck full open, that way it will still look like it's ECU controlled.
There are version available that have a o2 feedback stepper on them, but that's not what I ordered.

Just wondering how that LPG carb can enhance the flow characteristics of your intake when the orifice of the carb thing looks about half the size of your stock throttle body.

If you are after a less restrictive LPG mixer there are plenty of aftermarket ones available.. Just a matter of finding one to match your intake! If your car runs out of puff on LPG then you generally need a bigger converter as all the mixer does is mix the vapourized LPG with air in the intake ducting.

Let us know how everything goes as I too am interested to how this all works & whether it ends up being beneficial!

Because of the shape of the inlet (Venturi)
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venturi_effect

Ok, a BLOS compared to a mixer ring, will definately provide more flow.. only 3 weeks till I get mine :(

http://www.jeep.org.pl/wiki/images/3/3d/Blos2.JPG

BLOS arrived today, the diameter is about twice the size of the old mixer, will install tonight and report back on initial findings, I still need to get an LPG tune done at a garage with testers etc.

Holly cow Batman!
Runs much better on petrol as expected.
I adjusted the LPG to a thereabouts point and went for a cruise, coming out of a corner in 2nd the wheels spun! it's never done that on LPG before, EVER!
It would normally just do the granny acceleration.
Going to get the LPG tuned properly asap and see how it goes, but.. it would seem I will be running on LPG more often now than petrol as it's got much more go on LPG..

How about sticking up a pic to see how it looks in there & I want to see the rest of your setup to compare it to mine.

What the actual minimum diameter?

How about sticking up a pic to see how it looks in there & I want to see the rest of your setup to compare it to mine.

Will do tomorrow, bit tanked atm watching Queen live at Wembley lol

Would be interested to know how the fuel economy goes now too.

Same, making me want a conventional gas system even more if your getting that kind of response!

;1318193']Same, making me want a conventional gas system even more if your getting that kind of response!

As having the BLOS by itself is illegal (no ecu feedback) I removed the valve from the stepper motor so it appears to have ECU feedback, but doesn't.
If anyone does a test on the ECU they will see the stepper adjusting and the fuel mix changing accordingly haha..

The BLOS is really a fantastic peice of engineering.. so simple but effective!

And... I am pissed as a maggot.. btw...

Hmm, note to self, stay off forum when you've had half a bottle of bourbon

fuel ec will be hard to gauge as I don't have a trip computer, but will do some calcs and repost... give me till next weekend as the Gas dude can't tune until next Friday, he's never heard of a BLOS, or even and Impco so this will be interesting.

FYI, the BLOS cost a total of $220 including deliver (with our dollar so high) and took 15 days to get here..

What the actual minimum diameter?

My ruller is broken, I'd say it's about 60% bigger than the mixer..
If you have the spare $$ buy one, even if your stepper works unlike mine, they can be tuned to work with a stepper but you lose some perf.

Sorry for my lack of gas knowledge, but whats this stepper motor you talk of (idle motor?!) and whats some of the "perf" I lose?

;1318322']Sorry for my lack of gas knowledge, but whats this stepper motor you talk of (idle motor?!) and whats some of the "perf" I lose?

it's a motor between the converter and mixter linked to the O2 sensor that opens and closes to adjust the mixture, albiet slowly.
I don't know how much of a performance difference there is, it just says so in the manual

Pics.

Converter, Stepper motor is the little black thing in the LPG hose after the converter, the piston has been removed so it doesn't actually do anything but the ECU still gets feedback, I left this in so it looks legal and anyone testing the ECU shouldn't pick up on the fact that the stepper is doing nothing as it still steps, just that there's no piston for it to move.
I think the deal with the performance difference with a stepper is that a stepper always adjusts for the best emissions, best emissions does not equal best performance, it also means that you lose some of the ability to tune the BLOS as the stepper takes over most of it, you could set high and low idles full open and it would still run at the right mixture due to the stepper.

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/p-nichols/DSCF0440.jpg

It's a lot harder to remove and install the pipe between the MAF and TB now as it's a lot less flexible with the BLOS, a future mod is to replace the whole peice but silicon pipe is expensive stuff

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/p-nichols/DSCF0441.jpg

Here you can see the a

What converter is that you have?
Mine is smaller & looks very different(actually looks crap compared to yours).
I have an Airod converter I scabbed of a Magna wreck also sitting around & it looks better than mine but not as good as yours also.
I don't know if yours is better or not but it looks much cleaner & bigger.
The BLOS looks very tidy well done.

Cheers
Craig.

What converter is that you have?
Mine is smaller & looks very different(actually looks crap compared to yours).
I have an Airod converter I scabbed of a Magna wreck also sitting around & it looks better than mine but not as good as yours also.
I don't know if yours is better or not but it looks much cleaner & bigger.
The BLOS looks very tidy well done.

Cheers
Craig.

It's a Poliauto converter, I took the BLOS out 5 times cutting and adjusting until it looked ok.

I too don't know much about lpg except it's cheap.
What is aPoliauto is that a brand or type?
Is it a big capacity so to speak as my 2 here are really skinny.
Does it have a part #?

Cheers
Craig.

Poliauto is the brand, no idea on capacity or anything else about it, I really don't know much about LPG other than what I've read about in the last few months.

http://www.poliauto.net/83_c5.html

Thanks that link is very helpfull.
Now who did your lpg conversion & or where did you buy this converter from as this & the Blos seems to be the way to go here.
Keep us posted on how your tune goes & how the car runs eg power economy smoothness to drive & idle etc.

Cheers
Craig.

So it's the car's ecu the 'stepper' talks to, correct? Or is your LPG connected to a computer as well?

Now you're asking hard questions lol..
There's a separate ECU for the LPG which is piggy backed off the main ECU (after looking at the diagram below I don't think it actually is piggy backed), it controls the mixture via the stepper which is connected to the O2 sensor and TPS.
It also switches off your petrol pump, injectors etc.

With the stepper piston removed the LPG ECU no longer controls the mixture and it is all done via the BLOS, which again isn't legal but can only be picked up on by connecting to the LPG ECU with a tester or doing an emmisions test because the stepper motor is still there just not opening and closing the supply line.

www.parnell.com.au
register then you can log in and download the install guide for a TE/TF which has all the diagrams etc..

http://i991.photobucket.com/albums/af37/p-nichols/parnellPC2000.png

Is your car straight lpg or dual fuel?
According to some research im doing there is certain types of converters that can't be used on dual fuel.

Cheers
Craig.

Duel.

haha, no I don't want to fight, I can't spell !

Dual.

If it was straight LPG I would have been stranded in QLD a couple months back.

Hmm so if it doesnt have O2 feedback does that mean it can start running rich/lean & there is no way to correct it, UNLESS you go & physically adjust it?

Hmm so if it doesnt have O2 feedback does that mean it can start running rich/lean & there is no way to correct it, UNLESS you go & physically adjust it?

BLOS is a carby

Hmm, interesting. I haven't got an ECU controlling the LPG on the TL. (Not sure how it's controlled, actually.)

Obviously, you've got a system that's a bit more 'modern/ advanced' than my mixer set-up. Perhaps this will be easier for me than I thought?

It's probably got a simple lambda chip..
I didn't realise you could get mixer setups for a TL
You'd have to have a stepper motor, basically if you have a simple mixer ring you can use a BLOS.

It's tuned the same as a Petrol Carb and works on the same principal, the more air that enters the more LPG let through.
It may need to be retuned occasionally like a carb but the performance difference is worth the extra tunes (If needed)

Driving around on Petrol is heaps better with the BLOS than with the mixer ring, and when I tested the LPG (would have been tuned way off) it ran better than petrol.

Just so everyone know's, on any car past a certain year (96 I think) you legally MUST have a closed loop LPG system, meaning electronic control and feedback from Lambda sensor, it's a legal emissions requirement.
removing your stepper/mixer setup and installing just a BLOS is not legal because you have removed all electronic feedback (there is a version of the BLOS with an integrated stepper).
So, if your stepper motor is good leave it in, if it's stuffed like mine find a way to lock it to full open (without cutting wires) and leave it in, still not legal but harder to spot and it gives you the chance to say "Is it not working?" or replace the Stepper if you can find one that's compatible.
a BLOS will still work well with a stepper and give you better economy but obviously less power, it will still be more power than you're getting from a mixer ring setup.

The main problem I see with the LPG steppers is that they open slower than the throttle plate meaning the throttle is fully open while the stepper is still opening, it may only be half a second or so before it catches up but that's quite a long time to wait for the power to kick in.

With a BLOS it's the mainfold pressure (If that's what you call it?) that opens and closes the valve almost instantaneously, I can tell you that these are not a gimmick, they actually work, while the power figures on Ebay may not be right (I'm not going to bother with a dyno) the drivability is definately improved by a great degree.

Hmm, interesting. I haven't got an ECU controlling the LPG on the TL. (Not sure how it's controlled, actually.)

Obviously, you've got a system that's a bit more 'modern/ advanced' than my mixer set-up. Perhaps this will be easier for me than I thought?

Have a look under the dash behind the steering wheel, you will have some sort of LPG ECU somewhere.

Hey man, make sure to follow up with mileage increase results vs your old mixer system. I actually decided to invest in VSI kit, it would be interesting to see my gains vs your gains, considering im going to spend a whooping $2,600 for Impco VSI system vs $150 for BLOS

OK, tuned it myself using one of the Jaycar mixture display kits (10 led circuit board that measures the o2)
while cruising it constantly oscilates evenly between rich and lean which I can only assume means it's at roughly the right spot, just need to fiddle with the idle mixture and I'm done.

Much more responsive, not sure about mileage but my flat spots are gone and I can't tell the difference between LPG and PULP anymore which is great :)
I just need now to install the LED display somewhere in the dash rather than having it plugged into the lighter socket and sitting infront of the fuel gauge lol.
Then again, it may be better to keep it as is so I can still palce it where it's visble from the engine bay for tuning later.
Or, I could place it in the dash for incar display and attach a plug to it and have some portable LEDS that i can place in the engine bay

Just finished my first tank of LPG on VSI system, i gained approximately 50ks more out a tank, so based on tadoys lpg prices it will take approximately 12 years to pay for itself! I ofcourse didnt go ahead with it for better economy, i just wanted to get my performance back on petrol & get more on LPG. Which it most certainly did.

You guys should have a look at the Impco vapour injection system.

My old dedicated LPG TW magna had it....there is no mixer ring of course, so no restriction, 6 injectors drilled into the plenum.

You couldn't tell it was running on LPG, everything worked perfectly.

On a private road it got to to 230km an hour and had plenty left in it.

55l tank used to get over 500k between refills.

OK, finally got the BLOS tuned (myself using a Jaycar Digital Fuel display guage)
Runs a bit rich around town, around 14.5, but runs spot on 15.6 at 110, I calibrated it based on the average reading while on PULP (which came up as 15.6 on the mixture display due to the display being configured for LPG).

Flast spots and hesitation are completely gone, I can't tell any differance at all between PULP and LPG.
Definately runs better on both fuels than before.
I now just need to do a mileage test but I don't really care much about that. I've done around 80k and used 1/8 a tank.

How about a BLOS update please?

How's the fuel economy... how many K's per tank are you getting...still performing well ???