On a TE 96 and i'm experiencing drag with all windows up and doors shut. I need my inner peace driving in the morning and every day i can hear the sounds of wind seeping into the car. Do i just check for the rubber seals for the door or is this pretty common on TE's?

Design flaw of frameless window cars. At higher speeds the windows will actually peel back letting a small amount of air in.

I dont thave this problem on my TF.
Are you sure maybe one of your windows in not dropping slightly or out of alignment because of a dodgy window reg?
You need to ascertain exactly where the noise is evident and diagnose from there.

I had no wind noise at all, after I had the side of my car repaired (small panel damage), the rear passenger door/window lets some wind noise in.
It goes back to the panel beater soon to get the door/window re-aligned.

I know the doors can be adjusted for alignment, but is there some adjustment possible for the window glass as well?

I had no wind noise at all, after I had the side of my car repaired (small panel damage), the rear passenger door/window lets some wind noise in.
It goes back to the panel beater soon to get the door/window re-aligned.

I know the doors can be adjusted for alignment, but is there some adjustment possible for the window glass as well?

Sure is. I'm sure it is detailed in the work shop manual.

Have this issue on my TF on the left rear door. I keep making sure the rubber seals are completely tight and in place and the windows are wound up tight and the problem goes away. I've also heard the doors and windows can be adjusted, but haven't needed to so far (crosses fingers).

When the doors are shut and you are outside the car, do the pannels between door and body meet evenly?
Sometimes the alignment can be out with the doors being slightly out. Run your hand over the gap in the pannels between the door and body near the door handel. Does it feel even? If the door is poking out a little, you can adjust it in by the latch the door hooks onto inside the door seal.
If this is the case, then it will bring ytour window in closer and close the possible gap.

I had no wind noise at all, after I had the side of my car repaired (small panel damage), the rear passenger door/window lets some wind noise in.
It goes back to the panel beater soon to get the door/window re-aligned.

I know the doors can be adjusted for alignment, but is there some adjustment possible for the window glass as well?

Yep, the windows can be adjusted, (i did this before when i had to replace a window when my car got broken into) there is some tolerance allowed on the stopper that holds back the window when fully wound up.

;1303733']Design flaw of frameless window cars. At higher speeds the windows will actually peel back letting a small amount of air in.
Thats crap. The top edges of the windows push against the seal pretty firmly and are under a ridge to stop air getting under them, the faster you go the more the air pressure outside is going to push them against the car. The only way they'll pull back at all is if the windows are part down, and for that to even be noticeable you'd have to be way over the speed limits in this country anyway (not to mention if they're part down they'd be heaps of wind noise already at speed).

Thats crap. The top edges of the windows push against the seal pretty firmly and are under a ridge to stop air getting under them, the faster you go the more the air pressure outside is going to push them against the car. The only way they'll pull back at all is if the windows are part down, and for that to even be noticeable you'd have to be way over the speed limits in this country anyway (not to mention if they're part down they'd be heaps of wind noise already at speed).

Actually its ****ing fact. Do your research.

Have to agree with TuffTR.

When i was doing some rediculous speeds once upon a time, the windows did start to peel back which gave the sound like they were slightly open. One way to fix this when doing these very high speeds is to put your air conditioning on re-cycle rather than fresh and instantly the problem goes. Its the air being forced into the car at those speeds via ac ducts which must go somewhere which in turn pushes the windows out.

the faster you go the more the air pressure outside is going to push them against the car. The only way they'll pull back at all is if the windows are part down

other way around, the faster you are travelling the less pressure will be holding the windows in against the door as the static pressure acting on an object will decrease as the dynamic pressure increases. Static pressure inside will stay around 14.7 psi but outside will drop, might not be much maybe only 14.4 but that's still 0.3 pounds of force on every square inch of the window trying to push it out.

My rear right window starts to hiss above about 80km, I've never really bothered about it much though as I usually have a window down anyway.

Air is pretty damn powerful, it will always work its way in at the point of least resistance at high speed, which is 3rd gens windows. Obviously how they are aligned etc. dictates how much resistance it takes before they let air in.

Interesting, goes to prove everything I post wasn't picked out of thing air :)

Raziel summed it up perfectly with regards to pressure differences.


Thats crap.

Seems not. mmmm, I love being right, getting challenged then 3 people backing me up, still proving me right















For the record, I was right.

For the record, the sound from back door/window is still killing me. It's like silent wind seeping through and annoying my nerve brains. I can see the rubber being slightly loose for the window panel. (Rubbers on the door). I'm pretty sure it's the back door, drivers side. It could be the door, as it looks slightly uneven, and i notice that i have to slam the door tad harder to close it. Or it could just be that rubber being mis-aligned

Googling it reveals that it *can* be fixed by lubing up the rubber seal with a conditioner at a quick fix.

Thats crap. The top edges of the windows push against the seal pretty firmly and are under a ridge to stop air getting under them, the faster you go the more the air pressure outside is going to push them against the car. The only way they'll pull back at all is if the windows are part down, and for that to even be noticeable you'd have to be way over the speed limits in this country anyway (not to mention if they're part down they'd be heaps of wind noise already at speed).

Your whole argument about air pressure is incorrect, if the air pressure is higher outside the car (to lazy to figure it out) then it is going to push air through any gap, it's not going to help seal anything.

Imagine a gas bottle with a fracture in it, does the pressure of the gas seal the fracture or does it leak out?

Back on topic- again- how do we fix up this sealing issue? Replace the seals or can we just fiddle with the allignment until we get the window to seat right?

i had this problem, i adjusted the hinges and brought the top hinge slightly in so when the door was shut the window was pressing firmly against the seal. it only needs a tiny adjustment ie couple of Millimetres

At speed there will be a low pressure area along the sides of the car.
Go and have a look at the Wool tuft photos on Autospeed.

With the heater vent system open at the front, it is likely that there will be a slightly higher pressure inside the car.
The rear exhaust position under the car at the rear will be in a low pressure area, this is to create an airflow through the car from front to rear.

I had this issue, just slightly reset the glass guides to push the glass onto the rubbers a little bit more. Helps to keep the rubber weatherstrips nice and clean as well. A thorough clean up and go over with Armorall seems to help, also creates a slippery surface so the glass goes up and down more smoothly.
Another trick is to drop and raise the glass after shutting the door. I have found that this helps the sealing.

Gerry

I find the back door, drivers side in my TE has / had the same problem, I noticed the seal had partially come off (not really obvious) on the curved part and once I was able to get the seal back in properly it made a world of difference, now I check the seal occasionally as it was coming off every so often ( I think there's partially damage but not enough to warrant replacing it). Now if I hear a noise its simply a matter of making sure the window is fully up as I find they come down slightly (couple of mils) over time.

The car is quiet enough for me to have a normal conversation on the freeway without any annoying noises.

Thats crap. The top edges of the windows push against the seal pretty firmly and are under a ridge to stop air getting under them, the faster you go the more the air pressure outside is going to push them against the car. The only way they'll pull back at all is if the windows are part down, and for that to even be noticeable you'd have to be way over the speed limits in this country anyway (not to mention if they're part down they'd be heaps of wind noise already at speed).

Sorry mate thats aerodynamic fail. On an aerofoil high velocity air runs over the top of a wing creating a low pressure zone. The difference in pressure between the underside (low velocity high p) and overside creates a lift force from high pressure towards low pressure. Its how planes fly.

Same thing here high velocity over window will tend to suck the windows out due to bernoulli principle. Pressure is inversely proportional to the velocity (squared?).

People think planes angle their wing upwards so air pushes them up but it's purely to increase the area on the upper side of the wing as F=pA and also it decreases the velocity over the topside therefore increasing pressure difference.

Also you are all forgetting that with a third gen, if you switch to recirc on the climate control or the vent setting you will reduce the pressure inside the car and get less hissing as such lol

But yes, Paul is correct, the windows will "pop" out, when I hvae had Magna's at higher speed (in legal locations of course) I have actually had my drivers window pop out due to the increased pressure inside the car and reduced, outside, hitting recirc actually did help but not solve the issue

There are about 6 adjustments that can be made on a third gen window but again yes, Paul is correct, the draw back with self supporting glass can be wind noise

In future, if you know absolutely jack shit about the topic/cars in general, please don't post.

Bring back Julius Sumner Miller, well at least someone like him....Here some reading on the Bernouli principal. (http://www.gcdataconcepts.com/carairflow.html)

:oopssign: I stand corrected. I could have sworn it were the other way around. Somebody's immature attitude however wasn't necessary :roll:

Still seems like an issue you shouldn't really have with these cars if everything is adjusted correctly, I've never had such issue with either of my cars even up to near the top end of their capable speeds.

Immature was called for as I don't need my posts being referred to as "crap" when i am posting factual information about these cars.

:js:

Settle down ladies

;1305380']Immature was called for as I don't need my posts being referred to as "crap" when i am posting factual information about these cars.

As usual..........on & on & on.........yawwwwwwn! you 2 should come to MMX......We'll set aside 30 seconds of time for you "boys" to sort out your constantant teenage bickering in the ring, rather than ruining more tech threads with grand-standing and baby dribble!

Winner gets a bag of marshmallows! :gfight:

Forget the marshmallows. I say the winner gets a stick of window lube to fix there wind issues.:-)

I can tell you a story about Magnas and frameless doors...

A few years ago a mate was telling me when i bought my TF that they had a Magna on the Ford proving ground track doing tests on it at max velocity. They had rolled all 4 windows down and then up at approx 200km/h and what happened was all 4 windows pulled outward by about 5 cm and could not be shut. Only when the car was bought back down to a "normal" speed were the windows shut.


Sorry mate thats aerodynamic fail. On an aerofoil high velocity air runs over the top of a wing creating a low pressure zone. The difference in pressure between the underside (low velocity high p) and overside creates a lift force from high pressure towards low pressure. Its how planes fly.

Same thing here high velocity over window will tend to suck the windows out due to bernoulli principle. Pressure is inversely proportional to the velocity (squared?).

People think planes angle their wing upwards so air pushes them up but it's purely to increase the area on the upper side of the wing as F=pA and also it decreases the velocity over the topside therefore increasing pressure difference.

F*ck i love you sometimes AJ! lol Great post!

As usual..........on & on & on.........yawwwwwwn! you 2 should come to MMX......We'll set aside 30 seconds of time for you "boys" to sort out your constantant teenage bickering in the ring, rather than ruining more tech threads with grand-standing and baby dribble!

Winner gets a bag of marshmallows! :gfight:

I'm trying to post information about these car's and I always have to have a certain "someone" argue the point even though I know I'm right. Which in this case has worked out great as he was proven wrong by about 76 other members :)

I believe Lugo made a valid post, he started with a poor choice of words but i thought his post was valid, I think you could of handled it in a better way if your response had a little more maturity. Looking back at the post you gave factual information to show the Lugo was wrong and did it in a rather immature way. Lugo then took it on the chin like a man and admitted he was wrong and you still carried on like a pork chop.. You are a good bloke Tufftr but im telling you now that you can really be immature sometimes and it has really shown alot in the last few months.

Just for anyone else, Conflict like this will not be tolerated between members as it always turns to rubbish like this has. if you an issue with another member please deal with it in a mature way or just forget about it all together and ignore them. If you want to attack each other on a forum like the way you are now i am happy to hand out more infractions for Abuse/Disrespect for another club member. Since the both of you have had infractions for this matter in the past the next infraction will be a major and might be a Perma ban. Now it has been made public you both cant say that you havent been warned and that you cant run off and say the Mod team is picking on you. I am sick and tired of you both acting like this and i am very sick and tired of getting reported posts from other members about it. There is enough reported posts in the Mod section now about you two that we can start a Sub Forum.


One more peep out of either of you towards each other and you both will be getting a Month off to think about your actions. I and many many others are just sick and tired of hearing about it. If you are not happy with what i have posted please feel free to discuss it with me further via PM or MSN..

Thanks.