So over the past few weeks the car has not been starting properly. It really struggles to start (Rgggggggg,d,d, vrroom, like that :P). Some days it wont start, so I need to jump it.

Anyway, got into my yesterday and it only JUST started. So I figured I would not play any music for the next few trips in my car to let the batt recharge (As im certain the car audio is putting A LOT of stress of the battery). Anyway, last night, got into car, tried to start and NOTHING! Didnt turn over..just made a whirring noise. So had to push start it (Was midnight and nobody was around, plus where a work, the carpark is on a huge slant). So it started and I drove home.

So I put the battery on charge all night. Anyway, got into it this morning to go to uni, and again, NOTHING! The battery has the little green thing to say its fine, which I didnt trust, so I tried to jump my car with our commodore, but still NOTHING!

So im pretty sure it must be the starter motor?? Maybe starting so many times on a dying battery has killed it??

Anyway, one thing I noticed, is when I have the key on acc/on I can hear a fluttering/scratching sound coming from in/under the intake maniford? Sounds like there is a rat in there trying to escape!! lol, and when I turn the car off, I hear it go zzzzzz, then goes quiet.....

Can anybody help??

take the battery from the commy and switch it. try starting again. id put $100 on the fact with the other battery it will be fine... if so go buy a new battery.

sounds like the starter the same thing happened to my dads starter motor he took it out and cleaned the bushes and works fine

take the battery from the commy and switch it. try starting again. id put $100 on the fact with the other battery it will be fine... if so go buy a new battery.

Will try mate! Im just suprised that it wouldnt start when I jumped it from the commo battery if it is just the battery?


sounds like the starter the same thing happened to my dads starter motor he took it out and cleaned the bushes and works fine

Is taking out the starter a big job?

no not really

Will try mate! Im just suprised that it wouldnt start when I jumped it from the commo battery if it is just the battery?



Is taking out the starter a big job?

2 Bolts, a nut, and a plug... Takes about 5 mins.

Just switched the battery's over and nothing.... Still exactly the same.
Forgot to disconnect my alarm too, so when I took the battery out the siren nearly blew an eardrum!! lol

Just had a look down at the starter, seems to be COVERED in dirty oil (Leaking rocker cover gasket, put on <10,000k's ago, that's getting fixed tommorrow) So maybe the oil caused a short, or just blocked something up? Either way, kind of annoying, if the gasket was put on correctly in the first place then this would not be happening (If it is the SM thats playing up..)....

Do I need to disconnect the battery when I take the SM off? How should I clean it? Degreaser?
Thanks guys :)

Disconnect battery ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. the positive line going to the starter motor is unfused and you will melt wires if it shorts out, possibly causing more damage. always disconnect the battery when taking out the starter motor.

Would be worth cleaning it with degreaser and blowing it all out with a gun if you have one. But a whirring noise is the motor spinning but the solenoid is not engaging. So it's your starter motor.

;1308368']Disconnect battery ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. the positive line going to the starter motor is unfused and you will melt wires if it shorts out, possibly causing more damage. always disconnect the battery when taking out the starter motor.

Would be worth cleaning it with degreaser and blowing it all out with a gun if you have one. But a whirring noise is the motor spinning but the solenoid is not engaging. So it's your starter motor.

Ahh kk, thanks!
The whirring noise isnt very loud though... just a faint "phhhhh"
There is also some weird clicking/grinding sound when I change from Acc to off..??

You do know how to test a starter while its still on the car, don't you? Run a thin insulated wire from the battery "+" to the spade connector on the starter solenoid. It should thump in, and the engine should turn over.

Common problem with oil soaked starter motors. The solenoid has a big metal bar in it that gets slammed against two large contacts to give power to the starter motor, except when oil gets in there it turns into carbon and stops the contact from happening. A new solenoid will fix it, or another starter from the wreckers - just get one that has no oil on it. lol If you want to play with it, pull the solenoid apart, degrease, clean off the carbon, and reassemble. Good as new!

Ahh kk, thanks!
The whirring noise isnt very loud though... just a faint "phhhhh"
There is also some weird clicking/grinding sound when I change from Acc to off..??

Ghosts in the works, nothing to worry about! lol

Yep, common problem with oil soaked starter motors. The solenoid has a big metal bar in it that gets slammed against two large contacts to give power to the starter motor, except when oil gets in there it turns into carbon and stops the contact from happening. A new solenoid will fix it, or another starter from the wreckers - just get one that has no oil on it. lol If you want to play with it, pull the solenoid apart, degrease, clean off the carbon, and reassemble. Good as new!

Ill give it a shot, really cant afford to be forking out money for what could be a fairly simple fix...

Does anybody know what page of the workshop manual this is covered on? Cant seem to find it...

Edit: Nvm! Found it, was under 'elec' and not 'engine'.....

Ok, managed to get the SM off! Damn this thing is just covered in oil!!

Anyway, I notice a few of the teeth has little chips on the edges (on the pinion), but cant really see much else other than that. Gonna get a batt hooked up to see if the little thing engages now that its out of the car...

Another thing, will the run still run without the SM attached? If it is dead, surely it would save the mechanics time if I already had it off for them?

Nope, car won't start without it. I suggested you test it with it still on the car, but anyhow . . . . . take it to an autoelec type person to get it tested and fixed if you don't want to do it yourself. Don't worry about the chips off the teeth, they are all like that.

Testing off the car: Rest the starter motor on the "-" side of the battery, run a wire from the "+" to the solenoid spade connector. Should see the pinion jump out, but the motor wont spin. Touch the wire to the motor external connector, it should spin. If it checks out, clean it up and put it back. lol

Ok so I attached the positive of the batt to the little tab near the two nuts, and the neg to the thread where the nut goes on. When I do this absolutely nothing happens.... However, if I attach the neg to the other nut (The one that connects the two bits together or something) The pinion jumps out!
Does this mean that there is just a bad connection???!

For starters the solonoid on a third gen is a sealed unit so oil will not worry it. Oil is common down there especially if the cam thrust cap is leaking

Secondly a bench test is useless as most o the cause of a dead starter is worn brushes and bench test will not have the starter loaded up

The other sound is actually normal and is your fuel pressure reg coming up to pressure. You will hear this on most cars to some degree. The abs will also do a random solonoid test which is a buzzing sound if fitted

Nope, car won't start without it. I suggested you test it with it still on the car, but anyhow . . . . . .

Ohh woops, missed that........... ah well its off now! lol

Just seen tour next post brhe cause is either as I said worn brushes or stuffed solonoid b either way needs fixing or replacing

Just seen tour next post brhe cause is either as I said worn brushes or stuffed solonoid b either way needs fixing or replacing

Hmm ok. Is it possible to just get the solenoid replaced? (As it seems to be a separate unit?)
How much am I looking at for a new solenoid/whole starter motor?

most (all?) solenoids are sealed units, but oil still gets in. lol Solenoids are available seperately, but an exchange/recon unit is the way to go. Last time I checked a solenoid was $75 and a recon motor $150, but that was eons ago.

most (all?) solenoids are sealed units, but oil still gets in. lol Solenoids are available seperately, but an exchange/recon unit is the way to go. Last time I checked a solenoid was $75 and a recon motor $150, but that was eons ago.

Ahh kk, where should I be going to get it exchanged/get a new solenoid/motor? Mitsubishi? or will other places stock these parts too?
Im taking my car to the mechanics tommorrow so get the gasket fixed, but would rather get the SM fixed myself it if means I wont be paying for labour...

Also, how can I test to see if the pinion will spin? Where do I hook up the neg/pos?
Thanks!

Mate, you are really wasting your time on an old starter, once you determine if it is the solonoid or the brushes, then you have to get the parts, if brushes the armature needs to be resurfaced etc etc

I can do you a second hand starter with between 40 and 80k on the car for $100 (usually I sell them for a bit more) and I recon $20 freight will cover it

The only set back will be it will take a few days to get there but at the end of the day problem solvered and no labour

Mate, you are really wasting your time on an old starter, once you determine if it is the solonoid or the brushes, then you have to get the parts, if brushes the armature needs to be resurfaced etc etc

I can do you a second hand starter with between 40 and 80k on the car for $100 (usually I sell them for a bit more) and I recon $20 freight will cover it

The only set back will be it will take a few days to get there but at the end of the day problem solvered and no labour

Hmm ok..... the only prob is the few days it takes to get here, really need this fixed like tommorrow....

Would a 2nd gen 2.4L solenoid fit? As we have a 2nd gen just sitting out the back (Dead from broken timing chain..)

Edit: Had a look at some pics, pretty sure it wont fit. Think I might just have to get it replaced tommorrow by the mechanics... :(

Does anybody know where I might be able to buy a new solenoid from? (Tommorrow)?

Mate forget about the solenoid. just go to a Mitsubishi wreckers and purchase a second hand working starter motor, install it the same way you took it out and you will have no worries. Least hassle, cheapest and most effective :)
attempting to repair an old starter/ solenoid will lead to disappointment and $50 burnt

Mate forget about the solenoid. just go to a Mitsubishi wreckers and purchase a second hand working starter motor, install it the same way you took it out and you will have no worries. Least hassle, cheapest and most effective :)
attempting to repair an old starter/ solenoid will lead to disappointment and $50 burnt

I would, but the wreckers over here have some crazy prices.... The last time I was looking for parts, it was the same price to buy new from mitsubishi!! Maybe I can find somebody over here wrecking and get it..... really need this sorted by the end of the weekend.... :(
There is still a fair chance though that the second hand SM is gonna die as quickly, if not quicker than an old SM with a new solenoid?

Not much chance, just one of those things that happens. Starters go every 10 years with heavy abuse. TR starter finally shat itself at 220,000 so it had a good run. went to wreckers, paid $80 swapover, re-install, beautiful.

Im sure if you look around you will be able to find one sub $100
and yeah, starters shouldn't go that easy, mines done 255k and still going strong :D

Your thinking is flawed lol

The starter you have still has 10yr old brushes etc, you cant just pop in new brushes and expect it to go forever either

The solonoid may not even be the issue, may be worn brushes

fixing a broken starter is like fixing a Chinese motorbike, it will just break again lol

fixing a broken starter is like fixing a Chinese motorbike, it will just break again lol

Ahha, but doesnt a second hand chinese bike still have a huge possibility of breaking just as quickly? (Or a new one for that matter :P) ahaha

So it was mentioned earlier that I could test the starter while still on the car (Thought id test if just to make 100% sure it is the starter..) ? Could somebody explain how that is possible please?I read something about using a screwdriver to short out the connection between the nut and the pos tab or something, but tuffy said that the pos is unfused so I really dont want to test this before confirmation for fear of doing some serious damage......

Ahha, but doesnt a second hand chinese bike still have a huge possibility of breaking just as quickly? (Or a new one for that matter :P) ahaha

So it was mentioned earlier that I could test the starter while still on the car (Thought id test if just to make 100% sure it is the starter..) ? Could somebody explain how that is possible please?I read something about using a screwdriver to short out the connection between the nut and the pos tab or something, but tuffy said that the pos is unfused so I really dont want to test this before confirmation for fear of doing some serious damage......

on a 3rd gen it may be fused but from my knowledge on the matter the starter motor needs the maximum current it can, meaning it could pull 100A+ no worries.

quick way to test it is with a clip lead or something (piece of wire with alligator clips on the end) clip one end on the positive stud and the other end just tap quickly the ignition feed, this will put the starter motor under the same conditions as starting it (as flicking your key to start will send juice down that wire to the starter)

if it just whirrs your solenoid is gone.

but honestly, i would of just gotten another starter and then your car would be fixed by now.

;1308773']on a 3rd gen it may be fused but from my knowledge on the matter the starter motor needs the maximum current it can, meaning it could pull 100A+ no worries.

quick way to test it is with a clip lead or something (piece of wire with alligator clips on the end) clip one end on the positive stud and the other end just tap quickly the ignition feed, this will put the starter motor under the same conditions as starting it (as flicking your key to start will send juice down that wire to the starter)

if it just whirrs your solenoid is gone.

but honestly, i would of just gotten another starter and then your car would be fixed by now.

Hey tuffy, you couldnt just explain what the 'ignition feed' one is could you? Just dont wanna hook up the wrong terminals.
So I have 2 big nuts, one connecting solenoid to starter and the other one connection big wire from batt? (Positive?) and a little clip (Is this the ignition feed?)
Thanks!

Hey tuffy, you couldnt just explain what the 'ignition feed' one is could you? Just dont wanna hook up the wrong terminals.
So I have 2 big nuts, one connecting solenoid to starter and the other one connection big wire from batt? (Positive?) and a little clip (Is this the ignition feed?)
Thanks!

I'll try my best at explaining it
but yeah that little clip wire (maybe 3-4mm in diam) is your "ignition"
When you hit start on your ignition barrel it sends power down that line to activate your starter solenoid.
so if your under the car and want to "simulate" that, you need to feed that little wire 12v.

So since you already have a giant power source right there (positive off starter terminal) you just need to tap it off that however you see fit.
That will put the starter under the same conditions as you turning the start key.

Just be VERY VERY VERY careful in doing this as you will be partially under the car, take your precautions and don't do anything jesus wouldn't do.

;1308789']I'll try my best at explaining it
but yeah that little clip wire (maybe 3-4mm in diam) is your "ignition"
When you hit start on your ignition barrel it sends power down that line to activate your starter solenoid.
so if your under the car and want to "simulate" that, you need to feed that little wire 12v.

So since you already have a giant power source right there (positive off starter terminal) you just need to tap it off that however you see fit.
That will put the starter under the same conditions as you turning the start key.

Just be VERY VERY VERY careful in doing this as you will be partially under the car, take your precautions and don't do anything jesus wouldn't do.

Cheers tuffy! Tried as you said, but absolutely nothing happened! no noise, nothing!

So I took the SM out again, and tried the same test with it off the car (Hooked the pos of a battery up to the big pos thread terminal, grounded the SM and then hooked up an allegator clip from the threaded bit to the little tab thing, the pinion popped out and spun for a few seconds (Slower than I though it would...), and that was it. Tried it again, but nothing happened....So seems almost completely dead. Im sure if i try in a few minutes it will spin for a few seconds though.....
Seems like its def the starter then!

Problem is now fixed!! :D :D

Got a starter motor off member 'pocketz' for $50 today as he is currently wrecking his old magna.
2 hours later its in my car and working great! :D Definately seems to turn the engine over alot quicker than my old one!!! (Probably because it was slowly dying..).
Dont know how long the new ones gonna last, but hopefully should last awhile! Definately looks in better condition than my old one (New one has no chips or anything on pinion gear, so hasnt been abused...)

I did notice though that the starter motor that I took out (My broken one) is slightly different to the one I got today. Its still made my bosch, but is just a slightly different design. Will upload a pic for comparison.
Pic (The dirty one is the broken one, really wasnt worth degreasing for a comparison shot...) :

Edit: Will upload pic when photobucket loads.... (Gotta love being capped... :()

Thankyou guys for all your help! I appreciate it :)