Sending a sample piston to a company in melbourne that makes custom forgies..

Got a spare 6G75 so might build it up as a side project. :happy:

Anyone interested by any chance?

What did the 6G75 cost you? And what would the forgies cost anyways??

forgies give or take about $1K

Sending a sample piston to a company in melbourne that makes custom forgies..

Got a spare 6G75 so might build it up as a side project. :happy:

Anyone interested by any chance?
Yeah mate I would be interested in the New Year, was something I was thinking of doing myself after the LSD. Slowly accumulate some parts for a rebuild & more booooost!

AMC, the only place that encourages me to spend more money on my car lol.

I guess these would be only suitable to people planning FI or have FI?

Does anyone know how the 380 cams are coming along? I havent heard anything in a while. Maybe the cams and forgies would be good to do at the same time?

AMC, the only place that encourages me to spend more money on my car lol.

I guess these would be only suitable to people planning FI or have FI?

Or a squirt of giggle gas!

No probs using them in a N/A motor but unless it is totally worked I can't see the point really. A must for FI if you want to push the limits.

Does anyone know how the 380 cams are coming along? I havent heard anything in a while. Maybe the cams and forgies would be good to do at the same time?

You can try PMing Knotched, he was following that one up but I think it might have turned into a fizzer.

Err... yes.

The only person i know who did cams was White. He did it quietly and didn't get a good result.

I was in contact with one other who was developing cams but after Alan and Graham got a bagging it all went very quiet. A shame because I think some good gains could come of it, but it just has to be done properly - particularly with the 380 tuning. Otherwise leave alone.
An engineer told me it took 12 months to get the tuning right for production.

Have been quoted around $1600 for the first set of pistons if made in Australia, about $900 if imported.

I want them made in Australia...for a variety of reasons.

The second set should be cheaper though.

Have been quoted around $1600 for the first set of pistons if made in Australia, about $900 if imported.

I want them made in Australia...for a variety of reasons.

The second set should be cheaper though.
Trouble with imported is that they aren't made specifically for the 380 so you will never be 100% sure what compression you will end up with.

A little bit lower than stock would be good for some more booooost! I'm assuming that is what you are thinking? You mentioned rods, are they making a set of them too? I think you can get Crowers anyway so probably not neccessary.

Trouble with imported is that they aren't made specifically for the 380 so you will never be 100% sure what compression you will end up with.

A little bit lower than stock would be good for some more booooost! I'm assuming that is what you are thinking? You mentioned rods, are they making a set of them too? I think you can get Crowers anyway so probably not neccessary.


Or maybe some G674 "fat" rods which are fine for up to 450-500hp as a cheap option (as long as you get the engine balanced)

Or maybe some G674 "fat" rods which are fine for up to 450-500hp as a cheap option (as long as you get the engine balanced)

Thats true, are they the same length as the 6G75 rods?

Thats true, are they the same length as the G675 rods?

They are.

i.e. Anyone with a 74 wanting to do a stroker just needs a crank and some custom pistons made up. I have a comparison photo of the two rods side by side, identical

Err... yes.



I was in contact with one other who was developing cams but after Alan and Graham got a bagging it all went very quiet. A shame because I think some good gains could come of it, but it just has to be done properly - particularly with the 380 tuning. Otherwise leave alone.
An engineer told me it took 12 months to get the tuning right for production.

Shame really I had learnt alot from Alan's posts and Graham's work

Trouble with imported is that they aren't made specifically for the 380 so you will never be 100% sure what compression you will end up with.

A little bit lower than stock would be good for some more booooost! I'm assuming that is what you are thinking? You mentioned rods, are they making a set of them too? I think you can get Crowers anyway so probably not neccessary.


Initial discussions are that I am possibly aiming for 12-14-psi, which I am told needs a lower CR...about 8.5 psi.
The rods are same as 6G74, the crank is already forged.

Lucky me with a spare motor that i got for $850 with auto, all bolt ons, steering rack (half cut)


I'm just gunna give this crowd the motor and say...here...fit all that shit to it please....

Blackstar i'll be going these http://www.spoolimports.com/content/SPOOL6G74MITSUBISHICONRODS.asp i've spent hours researching these and i haven't come across a single failure as of yet.What compression ratio are you going for?

Blackstar i'll be going these http://www.spoolimports.com/content/SPOOL6G74MITSUBISHICONRODS.asp i've spent hours researching these and i haven't come across a single failure as of yet.What compression ratio are you going for?

8.5 is the aim

Ive seriously been thinking the last few days of doing a "boosted" build for s**ts and giggles, although i feel id probably upset a few people along the way and with the outcomes lol.

Have already been offered a near complete new "380" blower setup for a very good some of $$$ Hmmm decisions decisions

Ive seriously been thinking the last few days of doing a "boosted" build for s**ts and giggles, although i feel id probably upset a few people along the way and with the outcomes lol.

Have already been offered a near complete new "380" blower setup for a very good some of $$$ Hmmm decisions decisions

Just do it.....life is not a dress rehearsal, it's the one and only live performance.

Ive seriously been thinking the last few days of doing a "boosted" build for s**ts and giggles, although i feel id probably upset a few people along the way and with the outcomes lol.

Have already been offered a near complete new "380" blower setup for a very good some of $$$ Hmmm decisions decisions

Make sure it is a S5 blower & not the S3 pile of crap they originally started out with.

Make sure it is a S5 blower & not the S3 pile of crap they originally started out with.

Yes its the lasteset and greatest blower setup with some special mods

Yes its the lasteset and greatest blower setup with some special mods


Now you just need a "4th gen" to bolt it onto....

Now you just need a "4th gen" to bolt it onto....

sif that will ever happen lol

Ive seriously been thinking the last few days of doing a "boosted" build for s**ts and giggles, although i feel id probably upset a few people along the way and with the outcomes lol.

Have already been offered a near complete new "380" blower setup for a very good some of $$$ Hmmm decisions decisions

I'll be your fall back purchaser! You won't have to feel bad for turning down a good offer then :D

Now you just need a "4th gen" to bolt it onto....

Why would i want to own a "heavy" 380 lol ..... IF the 380 VRX had the goodies that it shouldve when released (curtain airbags, Stability control, decent manual gearing etc) then one may have been bought by me a few years ago when i was actually looking for a brand new car but in all honesty the 380 has never really impressed me all that much from the time i drove some of the pilot build cars thru to the actual production cars. They were ok in isolation but not enough of a advancement in my opinion over my magna

Why would i want to own a "heavy" 380 lol ..... IF the 380 VRX had the goodies that it shouldve when released (curtain airbags, Stability control, decent manual gearing etc) then one may have been bought by me a few years ago when i was actually looking for a brand new car but in all honesty the 380 has never really impressed me all that much from the time i drove some of the pilot build cars thru to the actual production cars. They were ok in isolation but not enough of a advancement in my opinion over my magna



oh...ok.....I get it, you wanted it to be even heavier? ;)

oh...ok.....I get it, you wanted it to be even heavier? ;)

DSC and curtain airbags would add SFA to the cars weight, hell most of the equipment needed to add that stuff was already in the car (like the ABS sensors, airbag sensors etc) plus they had already made the car weigh nearly 1700kgs, so they may as well have fitted it with all the safety features.

AND if i had bought a 380 it wouldve been as a everyday/family car not a car to be stuffed around with by doing big engine mods etc.... Thats why i have the modded XP coupe, the magna and to a certain extent the evo, they are the play cars lol

Anyway lets get back on topic for you thread regarding forged slugs :)

Got a meeting with a crowd who are perpared to manufacture forgies in Melbourne.

Unbelievable as it seems, yes they can do it in this country....(I'll go aussie made every time if posiible....even if it costs more)

Anyone know what compression ratio i should be needing for about 12 psi on the 6G75?

Got a meeting with a crowd who are perpared to manufacture forgies in Melbourne.

Unbelievable as it seems, yes they can do it in this country....(I'll go aussie made every time if posiible....even if it costs more)

Anyone know what compression ratio i should be needing for about 12 psi on the 6G75?

SPS (special piston services) in melbourne??

If so they have already made forged pistons for the 3.0L and 3.5L sohc and dohc (so they know a little bit about mitsubishi engines) of various comp ratios.

I'm using a set of SPS forgies in a build at present (not a mitsi engine) - very high standard slugs.

Just found a complete piston,rod,bolts,bearing shells as a sample.

For the whopping price of $20 plus postage.

(used one of course)


Now i don't have to pull mine to pieces just yet...:)

Since noone has posted 6G75 pistons/rods etc, I'll post these so i can find them later..

side view


http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/4895/6g75pistonsideincrod.jpg (http://img704.imageshack.us/i/6g75pistonsideincrod.jpg/)

piston diameter


http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/4889/6g75pistondiameter.jpg (http://img100.imageshack.us/i/6g75pistondiameter.jpg/)

its a 6G74 rod on a 6G75

http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/3558/6575rod6g74rod.jpg (http://img814.imageshack.us/i/6575rod6g74rod.jpg/)

piston top

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/2630/6g75pistonfac.jpg (http://img202.imageshack.us/i/6g75pistonfac.jpg/)

pin

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/5715/6g76gudgeon2.jpg (http://img811.imageshack.us/i/6g76gudgeon2.jpg/)

pin again

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/7651/6g75gudgeon.jpg (http://img191.imageshack.us/i/6g75gudgeon.jpg/)

skirt


http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/3343/6g75skirt.jpg (http://img46.imageshack.us/i/6g75skirt.jpg/)

Yep we have said on here plenty of times that the 3.8L uses the 6G74 "thin" rods :)

Ewwww. You can see why the stock rods and slugs are rubbish for any reasonable amounts of boost.

As a comparison - see below the stock and then upgraded piston/rod assemblies for my Landcruiser motor.

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2609/pistonsrodske4.jpg (http://img403.imageshack.us/i/pistonsrodske4.jpg/)

The stock piston on the right survived to 26psi boost + 100hp shot of gas - at which point the rod collapsed.
The big difference between those and the 6G75 slucks is the thickness of the crown and ringlands.

The rod on the left is a Crower unit and the piston an SPS unit.

Hey Blackstar..... now everyone knows your pin code for your new Citibank credit card lol

Just got back from a meeting with a local engine rebuilder in Winchelsea....( I like to buy Australian and spend local)

Looks like I will be going slightly oversize with a just a hone, custom piston set (including a full set spare for later), forged rods

and big end bearing replacements of the cheap NDC fitted as stock.

Ugrading the head gasket and big end bolts etc.


Not touching the cams, head will be polished and all that fancy stuff...


A CR of 8.5 tops....aiming for 300kw at the flywheel, maybe about 250kw at both wheels.

I elected for a conservative 15 psi boost maximum.


Looking around $7k for a bullet proof 6G75 including crank and head work.

I am pretty relaxed about that price.


This project is officially started, have shaken the man's hand.

Just got back from a meeting with a local engine rebuilder in Winchelsea....( I like to buy Australian and spend local)

Looks like I will be going slightly oversize with a just a hone, custom piston set (including a full set spare for later), forged rods

and big end bearing replacements of the cheap NDC fitted as stock.

Not touching the cams, upgraded head gasket, revised bolts.


A CR of 8.5 tops....aiming for 300kw at the flywheel, maybe about 250kw at both wheels.


Looking around $7k for a bullet proof 6G75 including crank and head work.

I am pretty relaxed about that price.


This project is officially started, have shaken the man's hand.


So this motor isn't going in your AWD build?

$7k for a fully built engine from start to finish? I'd like to see that!

Best of luck with it mate. I would be upgrading the cams at the same time - boosted engines love bigger cams.

$7k for a fully built engine from start to finish? I'd like to see that!

Best of luck with it mate. I would be upgrading the cams at the same time - boosted engines love bigger cams.


Agreed...but it won't be the only car I do, and after we went for a drive in the GT we both agreed it was out of character to have the "feel" of the ride compromised with the unbalance that may ocurr with a cam change.

I am under no illusion that it will be on budget...nothing ever is.

The consolation prize for all others is that the first set of forgies is the most expensive, so I am wearing the initial cost.

I would be building the TMR engine personally. Do the AWD on the TMR too. AWD TMR 380 with forged goodness and 260+kwatw sounds like a drool fest to me with all the extras like brakes, seats etc it already comes with.

So this motor isn't going in your AWD build?

I haven't thought that far now that you mention it....

I want the GT to be more of a "GT" by aussie standards, the LSD would have to come off if it had the AWD...and am loathe to do that.

The AWD is a two year project I estimate..and I can't wait that long, I need tax deductions this year...LOL

I would be building the TMR engine personally. Do the AWD on the TMR too. AWD TMR 380 with forged goodness and 260+kwatw sounds like a drool fest to me with all the extras like brakes, seats etc it already comes with.

damn You Disciple...LOL...I have been thinking the same thing....but wrestling with the idea of unexpected disappointments if it goes pear shaped.

damn You Disciple...LOL...I have been thinking the same thing....but wrestling with the idea of unexpected disappointments if it goes pear shaped.

Like what?

damn You Disciple...LOL...I have been thinking the same thing....but wrestling with the idea of unexpected disappointments if it goes pear shaped.

Only one solution then.

Buy another TMR, then you have one to mod and one to leave stock!

Like what?


It might get...dirty...:happy:

Only one solution then.

Buy another TMR, then you have one to mod and one to leave stock!


There would be a very messy divorce, and she who must be obeyed would probably get it/demand it in the settlement then crush it.

There would be a very messy divorce, and she who must be obeyed would probably get it/demand it in the settlement then crush it.


Only one solution then.

Buy another wife, then you have one to let you mod and one to obey!

fixed

save yourself some money with the heads - do not bother with a big port job. Clean up the bowl and be careful with the valve angles.

This weekend will be stripping all the bolt ons,

then on the pallet and loaded in the Transporter.....tooo easy.

They need to strip it down to confirm the state of the bore, before sizing the pistons.

Hoping to have it all done in time for Xmas.

Now to find someone who can do a custom magnetic particle clutch for the special bit.....:)

Here we go...let's get all this crap off for the forged pistons, rods etc....


http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/4362/engineontrolleybeforepu.jpg (http://img529.imageshack.us/i/engineontrolleybeforepu.jpg/)


Here is the firewall side bits...


http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/1989/firewallsidebeforepulld.jpg (http://img838.imageshack.us/i/firewallsidebeforepulld.jpg/)

The exhaust comes off as one piece if you are careful, not like the idiots who put on my extractors and dismantled it into a thousand jigsaw pieces...

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3148/exhaustintact2.jpg (http://img214.imageshack.us/i/exhaustintact2.jpg/)

Gotta get the crank pulley off...a wheel brace will do it, it turns anticlockwise to undo...just a belt with a rubber hammer and off it pops.
You can't get the bottom timing belt plastic cover off without removing the crank pulley...theres a hidden bolt.

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9995/crankpulleyoff.jpg (http://img716.imageshack.us/i/crankpulleyoff.jpg/)
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/5520/crankpulleyandboltnorma.jpg (http://img145.imageshack.us/i/crankpulleyandboltnorma.jpg/)

The water flows under the lower inlet manifold and its an O ring press fit....


http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/5875/coolingsystemunderinlet.jpg (http://img827.imageshack.us/i/coolingsystemunderinlet.jpg/)

Here is the crank angle sensor removed.......


http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8201/crankanglesensor.jpg (http://img405.imageshack.us/i/crankanglesensor.jpg/)


You want Top Dead Center on the belt? Take note....


http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/8789/tdc1.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/i/tdc1.jpg/)
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6804/tdc2.jpg (http://img403.imageshack.us/i/tdc2.jpg/)

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5870/tdc3.jpg (http://img254.imageshack.us/i/tdc3.jpg/)
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/5672/tdc4.jpg (http://img841.imageshack.us/i/tdc4.jpg/)

Notice the cam ends...that's where you fit your 6G74 distributor...

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5594/transmissionendview.jpg (http://img88.imageshack.us/i/transmissionendview.jpg/)

We all know the three holes on the head signify LPG hardened valves...what do the same 3 holes on the block signify?

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/4039/threeholesinheadandbloc.jpg (http://img340.imageshack.us/i/threeholesinheadandbloc.jpg/)

Water pools in the "Vee" under the inlet manifold and rusts....might do something about that when it comes back....

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6535/waterinthevee.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/i/waterinthevee.jpg/)
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/3648/inletmanifoldremovedsho.jpg (http://img534.imageshack.us/i/inletmanifoldremovedsho.jpg/)

Note the anti knock sensor in above pic...its under the lower manifold....
This is the lower manifold...


http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2320/inletmanifold.jpg (http://img98.imageshack.us/i/inletmanifold.jpg/)



Okay...let's not piss about...gotta get this started monday morning.....



http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/7378/readytogo.jpg (http://img830.imageshack.us/i/readytogo.jpg/)
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/4923/sendingtoengineworx.jpg (http://img205.imageshack.us/i/sendingtoengineworx.jpg/)

This is where the cam pulleys need to be at TDC, note the white factory markings in above photos

So...as well as the crank pulley mark, you need the pulley marks aligned to the notch on the rocker covers.

basically...very hard to find TDc without rocker cover on...


http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/5751/tdcon6g75.jpg (http://img534.imageshack.us/i/tdcon6g75.jpg/)

Top pictures Blackstar. And if you wanted to advance the cams by, say 6 degrees...

Top pictures Blackstar. And if you wanted to advance the cams by, say 6 degrees...

stuffed if i know mate...:)

Have updated my instructions to the rebuilder.

Have decided to go for 15 psi pistons instead on 12 psi.

One full atmospheric pressure is easier to work with.

I like the idea of the potential of the engine handling 300kw without stress.( I won't be heading that far though)

Yet again it was emphasised that the crank bearings are shockingly inadequate, so another added cost agreed to.

Have updated my instructions to the rebuilder.

Have decided to go for 15 psi pistons instead on 12 psi.

One full atmospheric pressure is easier to work with.

I like the idea of the potential of the engine handling 300kw without stress.( I won't be heading that far though)

Yet again it was emphasised that the crank bearings are shockingly inadequate, so another added cost agreed to.

As a guy who just built an engine, knowing what the quote was and parts needed at the start, to knowing what the final price was and the final amount of parts needed, believe me when I say this is just the beginning, and to embrace it. :)

What do you mean by press fit O ring on the water tube?
Should just needs lube em up and slide the pump /other end right on

Excellent pictures too, shows the difference in the CAS triggering wheel compared to a 72/74 motor.

;1323967']What do you mean by press fit O ring on the water tube?
Should just needs lube em up and slide the pump /other end right on.

It's nice tight fit and seems to pop when you get it to a certain point.


;1323967']Excellent pictures too, shows the difference in the CAS triggering wheel compared to a 72/74 motor.

A picture tells a thousand words as they say.

this is Fantastic Blackstar!!!!!!

Subscribing to thread!!

The mods cleaned up the previous 5 posts, so this comment now not relevant.
.

What's the deal with the mains?

Why does the engine bloke reckon they are underdone?

Sonething else to add to the build will be a set of uprated valvesprings - boosted motors with stock springs can suffer from boost induced valve float. (i've got a dyno sheet somewhere showing stock and uprated valvespring runs) www.performancesprings.com.au are good - just send a stock spring and he'll work out which of his catalog is appropriate. Springs sets for a 6cyl are generally under $350.

How are you planning to control the motor? Stock ecu and piggyback? The most improtant thing will be good control of spark - you'll need boost referenced spark retard capability.

What's the deal with the mains?

Why does the engine bloke reckon they are underdone?.

He looked at the motor and said something about 35 years experience reconditioning/rebuilding engines....something about being "thin NDC bearings built to a price no doubt"
(Seems to know what he is doing..)


Something else to add to the build will be a set of uprated valvesprings - boosted motors with stock springs can suffer from boost induced valve float. (i've got a dyno sheet somewhere showing stock and uprated valvespring runs) www.performancesprings.com.au are good - just send a stock spring and he'll work out which of his catalog is appropriate. Springs sets for a 6cyl are generally under $350..

It will not be revving past 6000 rpm, part of the reason for reinforcing lotsa bits is to get the higher boost down low.
We all say we do blah blah boost at the top end...i want something with more boost down the bottom.
At the moment it gets 4 psi boost at 2000 rpm, I want 7 psi at 2000...and dont care what happens near redline.

In fact an inverse boost curve would be much more driveable in my opinion.
(am looking at magnetic particle clutches on the blower drivetrain with uP control as a plaything also)


How are you planning to control the motor? Stock ecu and piggyback? The most improtant thing will be good control of spark - you'll need boost referenced spark retard capability.

It works fine at the moment with the Sprintex SMT-6 and 7th injector.
If it becomes an issue I would investigate a full ecu replacement and retro fit a 3rd gen Magna distributor...all that magna stuff is cheap and all over the wreckers yards.

Have updated my instructions to the rebuilder.

Have decided to go for 15 psi pistons instead on 12 psi.

One full atmospheric pressure is easier to work with.

I like the idea of the potential of the engine handling 300kw without stress.( I won't be heading that far though)

Yet again it was emphasised that the crank bearings are shockingly inadequate, so another added cost agreed to.

AFAIK, the main bearings are interchangeable with the 3.5l ones - which are apparantly a lot stronger. It was suggested that I swap mine over when getting my engine put together. I chose not to, but others have & have had no issues so far.

Valve float doesn't have to occur at redline - I ran into trouble at less than 5000rpm.

In any engine that's a boosted N/A uprated valvesprings are a good idea as the original springrate is decreased by the pressure at the back of the valve. Losing control of the valve movement can result in a bounced collet, and that's curtains as you'd know.

If you're after boost off idle then a good PD will be the go. Just size the blower and pulley appropriately and it'll make good boost from idle to redline. There's no real point in trying to run a varible speed blower drive - all that will do is make your torque taper as the revs rise, and that will just make the motor feel like it's nosing over badly. If you run 15psi throughout the whole rev range the 6G75 will make a gobload of torque - around 500ft/lb - and feel brilliant. Tapering the boost will also make it more difficult to tune and add another system that can fail.

That Perfectpower SMT-6 looks fine. I couldn't see a specific reference to it having a map (boost) sensor - but I suspect it does if that's Sprintex chosen control system.

The single extra injector will be insufficient to feed the additional fuelling needs, but adding a couple more or fitting one larger one won't be difficult. Whatever you do, do not change the stock primary injectors as you will forever be battling mixture codes - just increase the capacity of the supplementary fuel supply.

I assume Sprintex has locked the SMT-6? To unlock it you'll have to speak to sprintex - and they will probably wipe the tune - however you'll need to start again as you will be runnig a lower comp ratio and higher boost pressure.

Valve float doesn't have to occur at redline - I ran into trouble at less than 5000rpm.

In any engine that's a boosted N/A uprated valvesprings are a good idea as the original springrate is decreased by the pressure at the back of the valve. Losing control of the valve movement can result in a bounced collet, and that's curtains as you'd know..


Thanks for thye advice, i do seem to recall valve springs being mentioned by TMR a while back...something about forcing compressed air into the spark plug thereby not having to remove the heads to change the springs?


If you're after boost off idle then a good PD will be the go. Just size the blower and pulley appropriately and it'll make good boost from idle to redline. There's no real point in trying to run a varible speed blower drive - all that will do is make your torque taper as the revs rise, and that will just make the motor feel like it's nosing over badly. If you run 15psi throughout the whole rev range the 6G75 will make a gobload of torque - around 500ft/lb - and feel brilliant. Tapering the boost will also make it more difficult to tune and add another system that can fail..

I appreciate the advice, but will nonetheless proceed with a magnetic particle clutch wish...am not looking for variable boost, am looking to taper it off approaching redline for safety.


That Perfectpower SMT-6 looks fine. I couldn't see a specific reference to it having a map (boost) sensor - but I suspect it does if that's Sprintex chosen control system..

It does indeed support a map sensor, the Sprintex Series 5 kit comes with a 3 bar sensor provided and is sensed independently by the SMT-6.


The single extra injector will be insufficient to feed the additional fuelling needs, but adding a couple more or fitting one larger one won't be difficult. Whatever you do, do not change the stock primary injectors as you will forever be battling mixture codes - just increase the capacity of the supplementary fuel supply..

Hmmm..I have it on good advice that the JDM Wr-x injectors plug straight in with no modifications at all.

I suspect the stock injectors are 305cc.
The wr-x have straight shaped injectors in 450 and 540cc flow rates...and not expensive.

In any event Foozrcool has fitted larger injectors and dispensed with the 7th injector, however he is using a more sophisticated piggy back ECU setup.

I think i'll stick with the SMT6 for now...wait for the dyno before spending the money to see if it's really an issue...


I assume Sprintex has locked the SMT-6? To unlock it you'll have to speak to sprintex - and they will probably wipe the tune - however you'll need to start again as you will be runnig a lower comp ratio and higher boost pressure.

Haven't decided a lot of things yet, including the type of induction....

Yeah - there will be a number of different injectors that will fit - Injectors are of only a small number of standard sizes.

There will be many types that will fit the stock fuel rail.

Have a look here www.injectorsonline.com.au for some examples.

EDIT - If you need any help with the build - ie advice on injectors, blower system setup, tuning, engine, parts sourcing etc etc etc just drop me a PM - I'm happy to help. (I've been doing this stuff for FAR too long)

Sean =-)

Yeah - there will be a number of different injectors that will fit - Injectors are of only a small number of standard sizes.

There will be many types that will fit the stock fuel rail.

Have a look here www.injectorsonline.com.au for some examples.




Rang and spoke to them....they don't carry 380 injectors, but offered to sell me genuine second hand ones.

I'm pretty sure thats where my injectors came from, they can machine the tops down on the 11mm to fit the 380 fuel rail.

I'm pretty sure thats where my injectors came from, they can machine the tops down on the 11mm to fit the 380 fuel rail.


which model mate? When i spoke to him he hardly knew what a 380 was till i said Mitsubishi...LOL

which model mate? When i spoke to him he hardly knew what a 380 was till i said Mitsubishi...LOL

I can't really remember it could've even been powerflow I got them through, one of them.

Best bet is to contact Tim (Tradewind) on here, he organised them for me through one of those companies. He will get you the right ones with the right impedence etc. Mine are 420cc but you may need to go 470-480 with 12+PSI, thats if you are flicking the 7th injector. I had to solder different connectors on too.

Use these http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/fuel-injectors/?itemid=160

been looking at stroker kits, looks like the yanks are using 74 rods on a 75 crank and moving the piston pin 2mm. Maybe something to consider for a bit more capacity...

great link here: http://www.club3g.com/forum/3g-eclipse-gt-gts-specific/107356-4-0-6g74-stroker-swap-discussion.html

I can't really remember it could've even been powerflow I got them through, one of them.

Best bet is to contact Tim (Tradewind) on here, he organised them for me through one of those companies. He will get you the right ones with the right impedence etc. Mine are 420cc but you may need to go 470-480 with 12+PSI, thats if you are flicking the 7th injector. I had to solder different connectors on too.


Was thinking the subaru 550cc...

been looking at stroker kits, looks like the yanks are using 74 rods on a 75 crank and moving the piston pin 2mm. Maybe something to consider for a bit more capacity...

great link here: http://www.club3g.com/forum/3g-eclipse-gt-gts-specific/107356-4-0-6g74-stroker-swap-discussion.html


Quite a few threads on that forum, the only one that had success is by a fellow called Silverside.
Unfortunately he killed himself road testing his 6G75 transplant a little while ago.

They are a lttle bit behind us in terms of experimenting with boost etc.
If you believe what a particular guy says he gets 200kw atw with minor mods on his NA 6G75......

I'd like to see that......:happy:

Was thinking the subaru 550cc...

Yeah just depends on how much scalability your piggyback has to pull the fuel back when not on boost. If you go to big you will need a replacement ecu & there your headaches will start with the 380 & canbus lol

Quite a few threads on that forum, the only one that had success is by a fellow called Silverside.
Unfortunately he killed himself road testing his 6G75 transplant a little while ago.

They are a lttle bit behind us in terms of experimenting with boost etc.
If you believe what a particular guy says he gets 200kw atw with minor mods on his NA 6G75......

I'd like to see that......:happy:

200 fwkw with minor mods to 6G75 isn't a problem - especially if it was recorded using a US spec Dynojet dyno....................(they record a good 10-20% up on a typical eddy current dyno =-))

200 fwkw with minor mods to 6G75 isn't a problem - especially if it was recorded using a US spec Dynojet dyno....................(they record a good 10-20% up on a typical eddy current dyno =-))


Agreed...with the right dyno operator you can get any reading you want...LOL

i still think the stroker option would be viable in your build, easy power seeing you're going to get custom slugs made

Our IPRA Magna's are making NA 220 kw atw out of the 6G75's with minor mods. Excellent engine, that is under rated to say the least.

Cheers Dave.

Our IPRA Magna's are making NA 220 kw atw out of the 6G75's with minor mods. Excellent engine, that is under rated to say the least.

Cheers Dave.

What else have you done to your 380 powered Magnas? Love hearing about them.

Our IPRA Magna's are making NA 220 kw atw out of the 6G75's with minor mods. Excellent engine, that is under rated to say the least.

Cheers Dave.


What do you call "minor mods" ?

Standard internals. The minor mods are 1. Extractors & exhaust.
2. Valve seat to port alignment.
3. Opening up of the air box with K&N
4. Camshaft & adjustable sprocket change. (which is were the big gains are with the excellent breathing 75 heads)
5. ECU re-mapping.

You may not consider the cams as minor change, but compared to alot of other engines the 6G series is up there with for ease of changing while still in vehicle.

With the totally stock 6G75 and only the exhaust & re-flash we obtained 167kw atw. So you can see how camshaft sensitive they are. Cars are manual transmission, so very little drive train loss.


Cheers Dave.

Standard internals. The minor mods are 1. Extractors & exhaust.
2. Valve seat to port alignment.
3. Opening up of the air box with K&N
4. Camshaft & adjustable sprocket change. (which is were the big gains are with the excellent breathing 75 heads)
5. ECU re-mapping.

You may not consider the cams as minor change, but compared to alot of other engines the 6G series is up there with for ease of changing while still in vehicle.

With the totally stock 6G75 and only the exhaust & re-flash we obtained 167kw atw. So you can see how camshaft sensitive they are. Cars are manual transmission, so very little drive train loss.


Cheers Dave.

"With the totally stock 6G75 and only the exhaust & re-flash we obtained 167kw atw."

Yep, in effect that is what I have done to mine + minor intake mods, and I'm getting 170kw atw. So sounds about right to me.

I'm also guessing that Dave TJs figures are on the SKR dyno? Dave?

Hey Dave - when you say reflash, do you mean a piggy back paired with the Bosch ECU, or are you guys running the 6G74 ECU that can be re-flashed?

Cheers,

Sean

Standard internals. The minor mods are 1. Extractors & exhaust.
2. Valve seat to port alignment.
3. Opening up of the air box with K&N
4. Camshaft & adjustable sprocket change. (which is were the big gains are with the excellent breathing 75 heads)
5. ECU re-mapping.
You may not consider the cams as minor change, but compared to alot of other engines the 6G series is up there with for ease of changing while still in vehicle.
With the totally stock 6G75 and only the exhaust & re-flash we obtained 167kw atw. So you can see how camshaft sensitive they are. Cars are manual transmission, so very little drive train loss.
Cheers Dave.

And


Our IPRA Magna's are making NA 220 kw atw out of the 6G75's with minor mods. Excellent engine, that is under rated to say the least.

Cheers Dave.


You are talking about a 6G75 transplant in a Magna with manual transmission...right?


I suspect the Magna ECU reflash would be the most significant mod there, (unfortunately not an option for us poor 380 owners with our mere viagra based piggy back ecu's.)
With that and the significant cam work 167kw would certainly seem a credible output figure....even on the SKR dyno.
The manual transmission would probably contribute some gain over an auto, for sure.

But can you please clarify this?

In post #80 you say 220kw at the wheels...with only minor mods
In post #83 you say 167kw at the wheels...with only minor mods

So...I assume you are saying the valve seat and cam sprocket change yields an extra 53 kw at the wheels? on top of the ecu mods?
Is that the difference between the two minorly modded examples above?

With stock 6G75 internals?

You are saying that you can get 80kw at the wheels over a stock 380 manual with external mods?




Why should I bother with a supercharger, forged pistons,rods,lower compression when you could do it for me in a couple of hours for a tenth of the cost?

Are you sure you haven't forgotten to list one of the other simple mods like a twin turbo......:happy:

Blackstar,

The 220kw @ wheels figure INCLUDES different higher lift and longer duration cams being fitted as well as the other small mod (port alignment) plus extractors, tune and modded airbox with K&N filter.

167kw @ wheels figure was just a stock 3.8L fitted with there race exhaust and tuned accordingly.

Thanks Jason, that's exactly what I meant. You read it OK. Blackstar please re-read slowly and digest before jumping on the key board, I'm to old for public humiliation.
Yes on Steve's Dynolog and also Blackwoods dyno dynamics when they are in calibration they are very close, I don't own or operate either. Chassis dynos are painfull things as far as I'm concerned.

To MS-75, That sounds so Toyota crownish? Yeah we use the MELCO 6G74 TJ ECU to gain re-flash purley for costing reasons on all cars apart from Ian's which is the development mule because it has the Haltec with real time tuning. The piggy back should do the the fueling and ignition changes required?

Blackstar, the big gains where with the camshaft change which was item 4. on the list of mods. I was trying to see if this was callled a minnor mod or not? I know the big question 230 @050" 9.5mm lift.

Hope this helps Cheers Dave.

You wouldnt mind divulging the exact cam spec for us? Pleeeeeeaaaassseeee?!

You wouldnt mind divulging the exact cam spec for us? Pleeeeeeaaaassseeee?!

Well just so you know... Norbys 3.5L (Chris Chadwicks old car) and my spare 3.5L (not the engine that is currently in my car) are using the same cams as DaveTJ's racers....
As far as I know (well actually so chris and I were told), Tighe ground up 5 pair of cams the same (supposidly) as a batch for us all a couple of years ago.... Unless Dave has since changed to different cams again in there 3.8L racers.

I have the spec card somewhere but im sure Dave will know the exact specs :)

Blackstar please re-read slowly and digest before jumping on the key board, I'm to old for public humiliation.
.

Sorry you read it that way, but it wasn't the clearest post on the forum



.

You may not consider the cams as minor change, but compared to alot of other engines the 6G series is up there with for ease of changing while still in vehicle.

Cheers Dave.

Dave...you can not change the cams in my 380 easily....too many things in the way, like blower and LPG.

It would take an hour just to move the LPG injector rail.....

Standard internals. The minor mods are 1. Extractors & exhaust.
2. Valve seat to port alignment.
3. Opening up of the air box with K&N
4. Camshaft & adjustable sprocket change. (which is were the big gains are with the excellent breathing 75 heads)
5. ECU re-mapping.

You may not consider the cams as minor change, but compared to alot of other engines the 6G series is up there with for ease of changing while still in vehicle.

With the totally stock 6G75 and only the exhaust & re-flash we obtained 167kw atw. So you can see how camshaft sensitive they are. Cars are manual transmission, so very little drive train loss.


Cheers Dave.

Here you go Blackie....nobody else had trouble reading it!......lol

Here you go Blackie....nobody else had trouble reading it!......lol


LOL....yeah,I know about that bit.
(seems you are also having trouble with engrish...lol

The fuzzy bit is what were the minor mods, and specifically what the difference in the minor mods were to make one get 164kw and the other 220kw...not what transmission it had....

The way I read his post it implies that fitting minor mods got him 164kw...(extractors+reflash?)

But then fitting something after that got him another 56kw on top of the 164kw to get a final 220kw

So...I wanna know what was the 56kw gain due to? Mods to the cams only? And if so what are the details?

My point is if he can get 220kw atw without FI then we may as well ditch our superchargers, cause they produce less at the wheels than his normally aspirated mods......?

Over to you Dave....hopefully with some details?


EDIT: spoke to my rebuilder...NA cam profiles will most likely be very unsuitable for my project if using FI.

Don't forget we are talking about a racing engine. Dave uses long duration cams and massive advance along the power curve. I don't know how his IPRA car drives but it might have nothing much below 3000RPM. Not much good for a road car.

Don't forget we are talking about a racing engine. Dave uses long duration cams and massive advance along the power curve. I don't know how his IPRA car drives but it might have nothing much below 3000RPM. Not much good for a road car.

As i said in a previous post.
Norbys 3.5L (and my spare engine) runs the same 294 cams as daveTJ racers and and personally i think they drive ok around town under 3000rpm (there is a small amount of torque loss down low compared to a bog stocker but the midrange/top end more than makes up for it) BUT remember all our cars are using manual trans which makes a big difference in our cars as we all know.

Maybe blackstar could tee up a drive of Norbys car to see how the cams "feel" to him but really a manual NA magna compared to a supercharged auto 380 isnt going to give a clear indication to it all.

As i said in a previous post.
Norbys 3.5L (and my spare engine) runs the same 294 cams as daveTJ racers and and personally i think they drive ok around town under 3000rpm (there is a small amount of torque loss down low compared to a bog stocker but the midrange/top end more than makes up for it) BUT remember all our cars are using manual trans which makes a big difference in our cars as we all know.

Maybe blackstar could tee up a drive of Norbys car to see how the cams "feel" to him but really a manual NA magna compared to a supercharged auto 380 isnt going to give a clear indication to it all.

i agree with Jason here, the 294 cams are slightly sluggish to around 3000, but i would say on par with a stock manual (with stock cams) a 380/ralliart cammed manual would probably get the jump, but the difference is really more to do with drivers than anything.

After 3,000rpm its definitely show time for the power difference.

I drive my car everyday and with the manual trans its very much streetable.

For reference, my cammed non lsd vs a 380 cammed manual with lsd = mine winning comfortably

As i said in a previous post. .

Hmmm.

OK. Didn't know they were the same (can't read). In that case the 6G75 should make up for for the loss below 3000rpm - might be worth trying in an auto (with piggy and headers).

For reference, my cammed non lsd vs a 380 cammed manual with lsd = mine winning comfortably


I'm pretty sure you mean your cammed 6g74 equipped magna without lsd Versus 6G75 equipped magna with lsd =yours winning comfortably.

Nothing to do with a 380......?


(cause there's only one LSD equipped 380 in the world and it ain't a manual lol.....)

I'm pretty sure you mean your 6g74 equipped magna without lsd Versus 6G75 equipped magna with lsd =yours winning comfortably.

Nothing to do with a 380......?

what i mean is

My Car - 294 Cammed 6g74 with no lsd
Car X - 380 Cammed 6g74 with LSD

= my car comfortably winning

Indeed has not much to do with 380s, except suggesting there are HUGE benefits to be made with the correct cams.

Indeed has not much to do with 380s, except suggesting there are HUGE benefits to be made with the correct cams.

Betcha it wouln't work right with our ECU that can't be reflashed...


In case you guys haven't noticed...this is the 380 section.....and not the cam discussion, it's the forged pistons/rod thread....

Any chance you could wizz over to the Magna area and chew the fat over there?

Every time you post something useful, us 380 guys are wondering WTF you are referring to....lol

Betcha it wouln't work right with our ECU that can't be reflashed...


In case you guys haven't noticed...this is the 380 section.....and not the cam discussion, it's the forged pistons/rod thread....

Any chance you could wizz over to the Magna area and chew the fat over there?

Every time you post something useful, us 380 guys are wondering WTF you are referring to....lol

What has to be done in order for this CANBUS to be......flicked off so you guys can use a full replacement ECU and have some fun?

Sorry Blackstar, will try and sort this out for you and the rest of the readers.

1. All external mods, extactors, exhaust, air box, panel filter, re-map, on the standard 6G75 yielded 167kw atw.

2. progressive power gains were made with cam changes and some re-mapping to suit said cam change. (yes Jason & Chaddy got a set each plus our 4 sets)

Peak power is about 5900. we use a standard 3.5 manual box so we have to tune the enine to suit it we rev them to just under 7000. We can go to 7300 but thats only to help in corners or avoid an unecessary up shift. The engine pulls very well from 3500 and has a very long flat torque curve, which makes it very easy to drive. Like I said very underated..

At 220 kw atw we are at 100% duty cycle on the injector and we needed to up grade the fuel puump to an EVO unit at about 200kw's. We've maxed our buget for now new injectors are on the waiting list. We are going to concerntrate on our mid corner speed now because thats we're we are loosing out big time over a lap.

Hope this clears some of myy post issuse up.

;1326507']What has to be done in order for this CANBUS to be......flicked off so you guys can use a full replacement ECU and have some fun?

For the canbus to be switched off?


Most of the car's systems would need to be redesigned...

Air bag control,traction control, entertainment system,abs brakes, sunroof control, cruise control and security system would need to be reprogrammed.....

hard work.......

but a US galant wiring loom and US galant ECU,( that has been cracked), would do it....

Just an idea for a blown 6G75, would be to use the early 6G74 3.5 crank and rods this gives you a beefer rod that can take plenty of horse power when fitted with ARP bolts which are off the self. This combo will reduce the capacity by150cc but gives you some room to get a bit more material on the piston crown and open up the ring pack, plus you can tailor the comp ratio suit the boost level. I think the ability to run more boost safely would far out way the 150cc reduced capacity plus the saving on not having to buy rods. It's just an idea guys.

Cheers Dave

Thanks for the suggestion Dave.

My problem is I have a very low klm's 6g75 engine and have already committed to using the stock crank, which is forged I understand.

The 6g75 rods are in fact the same as the 6g74 rods and are inadequate.
The 6g74 rods are not forged I believe.

My project brief to the rebuilder is the word "bulletproof" at 15 psi.

Thanks for the suggestion Dave.

My problem is I have a very low klm's 6g75 engine and have already committed to using the stock crank, which is forged I understand.

The 6g75 rods are in fact the same as the 6g74 rods and are inadequate.
The 6g74 rods are not forged I believe.

My project brief to the rebuilder is the word "bulletproof" at 15 psi.

If it's any help, people are running stock 74 rods and not having any rod issues until 500HP+ in the states.

;1327228']If it's any help, people are running stock 74 rods and not having any rod issues until 500HP+ in the states.

So they say, a lot of people say a lot of things...but never speak of their failures.

The rods are about 10% of the budget...small price for absolute piece of mind.

Just an idea for a blown 6G75, would be to use the early 6G74 3.5 crank and rods this gives you a beefer rod that can take plenty of horse power when fitted with ARP bolts which are off the self. This combo will reduce the capacity by150cc but gives you some room to get a bit more material on the piston crown and open up the ring pack, plus you can tailor the comp ratio suit the boost level. I think the ability to run more boost safely would far out way the 150cc reduced capacity plus the saving on not having to buy rods. It's just an idea guys.

Cheers Dave


When you say 'early' Dave, do you mean rods & crank from a certain year? I remember reading somewhere about there being different rods used, with thicker ones being replaced by thinner ones as time went on, if that's correct?

When you say 'early' Dave, do you mean rods & crank from a certain year? I remember reading somewhere about there being different rods used, with thicker ones being replaced by thinner ones as time went on, if that's correct?

Correct!

On the topic of CAN bus.. somethign that is done increasingly with newer cars is a "Parallel" ECU install.. where the factory ECU is disconnected from engine functions but kept to help run the rest of the car.


Oz garage talked about this in an aston martin recently:
http://www.ozgarage.com.au/season2-video/season-2-episode-1-online-now

The Bosch system in the 380 seems to use a separate EMS and BCM, the latter controls such things as ABS/airbags etc.

The Bosch system in the 380 seems to use a separate EMS and BCM, the latter controls such things as ABS/airbags etc.

agreed...but try disconnecting any one of the ecu's in teh car and it complains big time.

even if you change the sound system it pokes errors at you.

This is very bad news for me and my project. I do not have a BCM and will need to find a way to emulate it...all 380's came with a BCM I suppose?

This is very bad news for me and my project. I do not have a BCM and will need to find a way to emulate it...all 380's came with a BCM I suppose?

yep....

Progress report is engine completely stripped...( and it's confirmed to be in mint condition...thanks Deer Park wreckers...lol)

The pistons have been sized and started, the rods are being examined, in case Mitsi changed anything and not told anyone, particularly around gudgeon area.

Crank is being nitride treated to about 3mm, this will take it from a 30 rockwell rating to over 50....whatever that means...lol

Crank/big end bearings are proving difficult, man is looking into what can be done in terms of alternative metallurgical composition.

Oh...and of course the first request for money just came.....;)

An update today.

The forged pistons will be ready next week, apparently will be indestructible and an absolute work of art, will post pics asap.
(Cost of custom forged pistons? $2000 including rings etc.)

The con rods are coming from the US and left last week....(aroung $800 plus DHL freight, includes bolts)

The rebuilder has sourced main/big end bearings interstate, apparently from a much harder composition.

So far on budget I am told.

Met with TMR today.

They have quoted me the $$$ to fit the forged engine to the GT

While they have the engine out they will also do a mock up removal of 380 rear end and a test fit of the magna AWD rear axle.

Date set for mid February of engine fit to 380 GT.

Why would you fit it to a GT and not the TMR?

Why would you fit it to a GT and not the TMR?



Long term plan is to do both.

First proto of anything gets spanner scars, it all slips in so much easier the second time...lol

Well done, sounds awesome!

Got a call from Engineworx that my forged parts had arrived and that I can come and see progress so far.


Are you ready to see a lot of pics?...lol




Very nice owner called Rob who used to be Northern Cylinder head services in Melbourne for 40 years.

Now runs a small engineering shop near Geelong.

Can't beat experience, and he certainly has had his share.

Here are a few happy snaps in random order for your enjoyment.

The entire engine will be fully balanced, the crank is away being Nitride treated at the moment.






http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5623/workshopo.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/workshopo.jpg/)


the man

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/4479/bobtheboss2.jpg (http://img340.imageshack.us/i/bobtheboss2.jpg/)

the other man

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/324/robtheboss.jpg (http://img262.imageshack.us/i/robtheboss.jpg/)

6g75 sump showing baffles

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/6254/sumpbaffles.jpg (http://img543.imageshack.us/i/sumpbaffles.jpg/)

more of the same

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2274/sumpm.jpg (http://img23.imageshack.us/i/sumpm.jpg/)


the block, no lip which is great

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7232/blockbeforehone.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/i/blockbeforehone.jpg/)

another view of the block

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/9757/noliponboresolowkilomet.jpg (http://img813.imageshack.us/i/noliponboresolowkilomet.jpg/)

heads

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4896/heads2.jpg (http://img440.imageshack.us/i/heads2.jpg/)

another heads pic

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1751/headsp.jpg (http://img839.imageshack.us/i/headsp.jpg/)

old pistons etc, still perfectly serviceable.

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7872/oldbits.jpg (http://img41.imageshack.us/i/oldbits.jpg/)

oil pump mechanism

http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/8844/oilpumpandcrankgirdleas.jpg (http://img195.imageshack.us/i/oilpumpandcrankgirdleas.jpg/)

old and new piston comparison

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/5675/pistonoldandnew.jpg (http://img607.imageshack.us/i/pistonoldandnew.jpg/)

another old and new comparison

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4224/comparisono.jpg (http://img9.imageshack.us/i/comparisono.jpg/)

The bolts are stamped ARP

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2075/arpbolts.jpg (http://img149.imageshack.us/i/arpbolts.jpg/)

kit of bits


http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7500/kitofparts.jpg (http://img149.imageshack.us/i/kitofparts.jpg/)

another kit view, rings etc...rings are cast by the way, as per the stock rings

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6697/kitview2.jpg (http://img69.imageshack.us/i/kitview2.jpg/)

note the new rod's busihing, the pin is tapered inside to reduce weight.

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/6956/newrodbushings.jpg (http://img254.imageshack.us/i/newrodbushings.jpg/)

Pauter logo


http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/650/pauterrods.jpg (http://img132.imageshack.us/i/pauterrods.jpg/)


note the massive improvement in material mass

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3289/pistonskirtunderneathvi.jpg (http://img258.imageshack.us/i/pistonskirtunderneathvi.jpg/)

more ring views

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6892/ringsm.jpg (http://img101.imageshack.us/i/ringsm.jpg/)


rods again

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1919/rods2.jpg (http://img23.imageshack.us/i/rods2.jpg/)


where do you get it?

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/9072/spsdoco.jpg (http://img262.imageshack.us/i/spsdoco.jpg/)

Looks good mate, like the look of those rods!

Looks good mate, like the look of those rods!


they are so light by comparison...

they are so light by comparison...

She should rev it's tits off then :)

Yeah nice rods,not seen ones like that before, only H or I beam!

She should rev it's tits off then :)


I can run it as lean as I like with no intercooler.

But...we have a nitrous deviant in the family....for those special ocassions just outside Ford in Geelong...lol

Are you changing the valves? That will be the next weakest link in the combustion chamber now on detonation!

Are you changing the valves? That will be the next weakest link in the combustion chamber now on detonation!

I told the man...he doesn't seem to think it's a problem....just going to port and polish the head lap the valves and all that stuff.

Maybe the valve springs, but thats a simple job later if required.....


If the heads are a problem i will import two mivec heads from the US...definately.

Couldn't use the pajero heads from the later model aren't they mivec on a 3.8L engine :)

Nice pistons, good to see a nice dish to reduce the comp for the blower. I'm a bit concerned that you think the piston will control deternation.
Yes the pauter rods are very good, we use them exclusively were I work and they great to work with. Noticed the thrust oil squirter has been deleted on the new rods is that because they have got rid off the pin offset in the new pistons?
Quite suprised the pauter rods would be lighter than the standard ones. the factory rod is around 628 grams how much weight did the pauters save?
Looking good so far keep the updates coming, this is excellent project and I think it's going to produce some good numbers.

Cheers Dave

Nice pistons, good to see a nice dish to reduce the comp for the blower. I'm a bit concerned that you think the piston will control deternation.


I was thinking of controlling detonation...not deternation...lol...(just kidding mate, debtor nation sounds like Greece economy)
The pistons won't control detonation,(where have I said that?)... but in any case they wont smash as easily, they won't melt as easily, the rods wont bend as easily...the knock sensor works well in a 380 ...it almost doesn't knock at all. So this will be as good as it gets me thinks.
If you have any sggestions I am all ears......but I am pretty sure that I am pioneering this platform.

Can't find any instance of a forged 6G75...anywhere.....?




Yes the pauter rods are very good, we use them exclusively were I work and they great to work with. Noticed the thrust oil squirter has been deleted on the new rods is that because they have got rid off the pin offset in the new pistons?

Stuffed if I know mate, I did notice a huge taper inside the pin though....
Bear in mind it is not me in any of the photos, i'm just the guy with the cheque book and camera...lol



Quite suprised the pauter rods would be lighter than the standard ones. the factory rod is around 628 grams how much weight did the pauters save?

Again stuffed if i know...and i could be in error with my recollection of what is lighter, the builder goes way over the top of my head usually....as long as it works I guess...?

He has mentioned that alot of time will be spent on balancing...everything, and somethinga bout the rod clearance on the bottom bore lip....etc etc


Looking good so far keep the updates coming, this is excellent project and I think it's going to produce some good numbers.

Cheers Dave

Not really after great numbers, actually looking to build safety margins.
By doing that I can focus on more interesting aspects of a 380 build, like the AWD portion.

I love this 6G75 engine, it's a work of art in my opinion...i just want to enhance it if i can,.

Oops...one other important bit of info.

Apparently the main crank bearings are fine, and good quality in stock form, but the big end are cheap and cost cut...so they will be made different.

the oil pump is in the opinion of the rebuilder as being absolutely failure proof...even if you clog it with sand it will continue pumping.

For the amount of $$$ you are throwing at this (by the looks of things) I for one definitely wouldn't cut corners. Yes to the heavier springs but I would also at the very least upgrade existing valves and seats or at the very, very least double check on composition of them. I know when I was trying to sort out the problem of why you cant run LPG on all heads I found out that there were different valves in play. Now if they aren't going to cope with LPG then they certainly will let you down under pressure with this build. Last thing you want is to drop a valve. My 2c worth anyway.

For the amount of $$$ you are throwing at this (by the looks of things) I for one definitely wouldn't cut corners.

Yes to the heavier springs.

Money isn't an issue with this project, it's 100% tax deductable.

Convince me why you think i need heavier springs when the rebuilder has said it doesn't for the target compression ratio/boost ambition.


but I would also at the very least upgrade existing valves and seats or at the very, very least double check on composition of them. .

Apparently these engines are very well endowed in the breathing dept, a few people have said that now.

It will be getting a port and polish though...


I know when I was trying to sort out the problem of why you cant run LPG on all heads I found out that there were different valves in play.
My 2c worth anyway.

I appreciate your comments and those of others, gives me stuff to think about while i wait....and wait...and wait...:happy:

Money isn't an issue with this project, it's 100% tax deductable.

Convince me why you think i need heavier springs when the rebuilder has said it doesn't for the target compression ratio/boost ambition.



I may be suffering from memory loss here but weren't you going for cams as well with higher lift? Also what redline are you thinking of out of this? 100% tax deductible eh? now that's a happy thought!

I may be suffering from memory loss here but weren't you going for cams as well with higher lift? Also what redline are you thinking of out of this? 100% tax deductible eh? now that's a happy thought!

I am definitely not interested in changing the cam profile on a 6G75 fitted to a 380 at this stage.

Was talked out of it due to boost and ECU constraints. (have a read of posts from around #80 - #100 in this thread)

If I could flash the ECU to rev to 7000+ rpm like the Magna boys instead of the 6000 rpm that it is limited to now I would prolly outperform just about any recammed NA 6G74/75 motor due to the boost rising to over 10 psi with the extra 15% ...
Even though I have the auto trans it would yield 230kw at the wheels theoretically, at 7000 rpm...
(though the engine wouldn't last long without forging...lol)


But I do like my airbags and cruise control to work...so replacing the ECU aint an option.

Yep technology can be a pain sometimes cant it?

Update, have been told engine will be ready Tuesday/wednesday next week.

Oh my

I love how this just gets better

So what do they reckon for a run in?

So what do they reckon for a run in?


I will be running this engine up on the bench.

I have almost extracted (from a VRX wreck) the entire wiring loom, ecus, ignition barrel, fuel tank etc to achieve that.

It's my intention to forge more than one 6G75 so I need a test rig.

planning on flywheel dyno ?

planning on flywheel dyno ?


nah...just want to play around with electronics, timing etc

Got a call to say that the balancing won't be finished in time for Xmas.

However the rods clear the bottom of the bore, so that's one less head ache.

Will pick this project up in about a month.

Blackstar can i ask how this is going budget wise?

Blackstar can i ask how this is going budget wise?


still on budget.


$7k

still on budget.


$7k

That's with you supplying the pistons and rods separately?

I will be running this engine up on the bench.

I have almost extracted (from a VRX wreck) the entire wiring loom, ecus, ignition barrel, fuel tank etc to achieve that.

It's my intention to forge more than one 6G75 so I need a test rig.

From a magna VRX or a 380 VRX wreck?

That's with you supplying the pistons and rods separately?


thats including pistons,rods,rings,gaskets,balancing,honeing,porti ng,polishing etc

but not installation under the bonnet...will do that myself



From a magna VRX or a 380 VRX wreck?


380

thats including pistons,rods,rings,gaskets,balancing,honeing,porti ng,polishing etc

but not installation under the bonnet...will do that myself

That's really good value.

Any updates on this?

yep...the update is that they are balancing the engine...it's apparently hard work....done on the harmonic balancer???

it will take till the end of the month.

Ahh hopefully it's all installed by this time next month??

nah....will take longer...the hoist is in use.

In any event will be looking...looking...thinking...drinking...and then looking long and hard some more.

Anyone who wants to jump ahead of me please do...lol

When i think about it , this engine probably would be best served in a foced induction Magna, since the ECu is cracked.

A little bit of diversion to get some stock tools on the shelf for later on.

Ordered 4 custom series 5 Sprintex pulleys today.

10,11,12,13 psi pulleys to mate to the 6G75 stock harmonic balancer.

Gotta have flexibility...we'll start with the 10 psi...already getting 8.5 on the stock unit.

What PSI does the smallest give you?

What PSI does the smallest give you?

8.5 is the stock sprintex blower pulley..... that is on right now.

8.5 is the stock sprintex blower pulley..... that is on right now.

Of course,sorry mate, completely miss read the original post

Ready for some maths?...lol



Been trying to decide on the boost to run this thing at.

The only benchmark for reliability I have is my own Gt which has been running an 8.0 pulley for over a year now, and I haven't had a single problem with it....so...
I will use 7.5 psi as a "safe" boost for a 6G75 with stock internals since i never red line the engine anyways...does that seem fair enough?


On that basis I can play with some numbers to see what i can push the new engine to...safely.

According to a lot of forums/people I have spoken to the following formula determines the final compression ratio...or FCR for short.

Final compression ratio = ((boost psi / 14.7/ +1) X piston CR) = Final compression ratio


So...at the moment my proven "safe" numbers with a 7.5 psi sprintex pulley are:-

((7.5/14.7 +1) X 10)= 15.10 final CR (about 264kw at flywheel) stock 10:1 CR engine



If I then change the pulley to a 10 or 12 psi instead of 7.5 psi the numbers look like this:-

For a 10 psi sprintex pulley
((10/14.7) + 1) X 8.5 = 14.28 final CR (about 294Kw at the flywheel) forged 8.5:1 CR engine

For a 11 psi sprintex pulley
((11/14.7) + 1) X 8.5 = 14.86 final CR (about 305Kw at the flywheel) forged 8.5:1 CR engine


For a 12 psi sprintex pulley
((12/14.7 +1) X 8.5) = 15.43 final CR (about 317kw at the flywheel) forged 8.5:1 CR engine


From the maths, calculating the final CR, it seems that a 10 psi pulley with a forged low compression engine will be miles safer than the current 7.5 ?????


In all the above calcs I am assuming that the stock engine produces 175Kw at the engine.


My engine KW output is calculated by the ratio of boost and atmo pressure x 175 kw mitsi claimed figure.

So...for example 7.5 psi boost is about 175+((7.5/14.7) x 175)0 = 264 kw

Is my maths correct or am I missing something?


The whole point is that at 12psi or below i don't think intercooling is required with the numbers above ?

Um, in a few words, no - I don't think the numbers are quite right.

I don't have time to go through it all atm (might try looking more in depth later on), but essentially you can't have the 10psi/forged combination producing more power than the 7.5/NA combination with smaller forces on the piston - that defies physics. Essentially, the more power you are developing (ie you are comparing 294kw to 264kw), the more force there is on the pistons. You can't have something for free :)

I have made the assumption of torque is proportional to power as we are talking constant RPM of 5250.

Um, in a few words, no - I don't think the numbers are quite right.

I don't have time to go through it all atm (might try looking more in depth later on), but essentially you can't have the 10psi/forged combination producing more power than the 7.5/NA combination with smaller forces on the piston - that defies physics. Essentially, the more power you are developing (ie you are comparing 294kw to 264kw), the more force there is on the pistons. You can't have something for free :)

I have made the assumption of torque is proportional to power as we are talking constant RPM of 5250.



I eagerly await your sunstantiated analysis, however be sure to note that the question I am asking is whether stock@7.5psi Vs forged @10 psi (The forged having the lower FCR) are as safe as each other without an intercooler.

Well any boost/compression ratio is safe provided it is tuned correctly.

If you want the engine to produce max power or don't want to sacrifice economy, then yes you probably need to start thinking intercooler.

The question is probably best answered by whoever will dyno tune your piggyback. And given that you don't seem to do things in halves, I'm guessing they won't have much trouble convincing you to go down that road.

I guess your answer is no. If you develop more power from the same cubic inches (depends on the extent of the forged mods as to whether this changes much), there will be less "safety" as you call it (more likely to run into pre-ignition/detonation problems).

Well any boost/compression ratio is safe provided it is tuned correctly.

The two main purposes of an intercooler are:
1. To jam more air/fuel into each stroke (more torque)
2. To prevent higher combustion chamber causing pre-ignition and detonation (and destroying your engine).

Pre-ignition and detonation can be managed by changing ignition timing and increaing fuel-air ratios. It really depends what you want - there's no line in the sand. There is no point where you suddenly have to have an intercooler, it's simply a sliding scale into a rich/inefficient tune to manage the heat.

If you want the engine to produce max power or don't want to sacrifice economy, then yes you probably need to start thinking intercooler.

The question is probably best answered by whoever will dyno tune your piggyback. And given that you don't seem to do things in halves, I'm guessing they won't have much trouble convincing you to go down that road.



I guess your answer is no. If you develop more power from the same cubic inches, there will be less "safety" as you call it (more likely to run into pre-ignition/detonation problems).



Thanks for the lecture on details I am already familiar with.



The FCR at 10 psi with a CR of 8.5 is lower than with a CR of 10 so I am guessing you have NFI what i am talking about?

From my previous experience back in the high boost turbo days, as a general rule of thunb, halve the boost & add it to the static CR. So your stock blower will have roughly 13.75:1 compression on full boost & the forged 10PSI will be 13.5:1. So approximately the same engine stress. So you should be able to wack more boost in with the forged slugs reasonably safely.

From my previous experience back in the high boost turbo days, as a general rule of thunb, halve the boost & add it to the static CR. So your stock blower will have roughly 13.75:1 compression on full boost & the forged 10PSI will be 13.5:1. So approximately the same engine stress. So you should be able to wack more boost in with the forged slugs reasonably safely.

Thanks Foozrcool, exactly what i was thinking.

Since The sprintex kit makles it difficult to intercool, (well almost impossible unless you forge a custom plenum), I figured if it worked now then it should be safe enough with the current setup cause the numbers seem to add up.

In fact at 10 psi it's "safer".


I don't want an intercooler is the point and I think I will get away with it up to 300kw....PEAK....


I might copy your CAI setup though, it looks like a great point to pickup cooler air.


Hoping to have this in the car by the end of the month.

Why don't you use water methanol to intercool it like me?

Mate, it's comments like this


Thanks for the lecture on details I am already familiar with.

that make me once again remember that sometimes you can be quite an arrogant d/head.

I WAS SIMPLY TRYING TO ANSWER THE QUESTION I THOUGHT YOU'D ASKED, BASED ON THE INFORMATION YOU PROVIDED.


so I am guessing you have NFI what i am talking about?

As someone with a science/mechanics degree and years of experience working on turbocharged piston engines on aircraft, I could tell you more about compression ratios, superturbocharging, preignition, detonation and fuel properties than nearly any other person on here.

I did start doing the calculations myself (had to dig out some old notes first) and was going to post them back up here (I would have needed a bit more info re: your pistons), but I'll be stuffed if I'm going to post up any numbers now.

You want an answer to your question without a lecture?


Is my maths correct or am I missing something?

You're way out.

Mate, it's comments like this



that make me once again remember that sometimes you can be quite an arrogant d/head.

I WAS SIMPLY TRYING TO ANSWER THE QUESTION I THOUGHT YOU'D ASKED, BASED ON THE INFORMATION YOU PROVIDED.



As someone with a science/mechanics degree and years of experience working on turbocharged piston engines on aircraft, I could tell you more about compression ratios, superturbocharging, preignition, detonation and fuel properties than nearly any other person on here.

I did start doing the calculations myself (had to dig out some old notes first) and was going to post them back up here (I would have needed a bit more info re: your pistons), but I'll be stuffed if I'm going to post up any numbers now.

You want an answer to your question without a lecture?



You're way out.

Mate, this kind of attitude isnt needed on this forum. How is anything you've posted helpful anyway??

You can either contribute positively by reading the thread (or whole posts maybe?) and giving helpful advice, or you can keep lurking without trying to start a flame war.

If you have info, by all means post it up and provide a constructive comment!

Thanks....

Mate, this kind of attitude isnt needed on this forum. How is anything you've posted helpful anyway??

You can either contribute positively by reading the thread (or whole posts maybe?) and giving helpful advice, or you can keep lurking without trying to start a flame war.

If you have info, by all means post it up and provide a constructive comment!

Thanks....


Why don't you use water methanol to intercool it like me?

Is there room in the 380 engine bay for a W2A Cooler??

Mate, it's comments like this
that make me once again remember that sometimes you can be quite an arrogant d/head.
I WAS SIMPLY TRYING TO ANSWER THE QUESTION I THOUGHT YOU'D ASKED, BASED ON THE INFORMATION YOU PROVIDED.
As someone with a science/mechanics degree and years of experience working on turbocharged piston engines on aircraft, I could tell you more about compression ratios, superturbocharging, preignition, detonation and fuel properties than nearly any other person on here.
I did start doing the calculations myself (had to dig out some old notes first) and was going to post them back up here (I would have needed a bit more info re: your pistons), but I'll be stuffed if I'm going to post up any numbers now.
You want an answer to your question without a lecture?
You're way out.


Ok...then, thanks anyway.
(I'll just have to keep stumbling aimlessly with my pursuits without your expert advice.)

Is there room in the 380 engine bay for a W2A Cooler??

You mean water to air? The problem is the plenum, the blower sits right on it.

Why don't you use water methanol to intercool it like me?

I hate having to fill up with fuel, I would eventually get slack and let it run out.....

But i want to stick with the seventh injector and the SMT6 control for now....I paid for the unlocked version and it's got some good features.

Hi TJTime,

Well, my original answer was that it could be tuned out (so no, intercooler not required) but that he should ask his tuner about it (because how they tune it ie for max power will determine whether it is required or not).

Apparently that was a "lecture". Sorry about the attitude, but it was provoked.

If you want a useful comment then try this. 300kw at the fly wheel will not be achieved even with the smallest pulley - there has been no consideration of the increased weight of the engine components and their corresponding higher inertia in Blackstar's calculations, nor has there been any consideration of the energy the supercharger uses to do it's job (which is a lot), amongst several other things.

I'm not trying to flame anyone... read this:


Thanks for the lecture on details I am already familiar with.

The FCR at 10 psi with a CR of 8.5 is lower than with a CR of 10 so I am guessing you have NFI what i am talking about?


And decide who started flaming who.

Next time I won't bother trying to help.

If you want a useful comment then try this. 300kw at the fly wheel will not be achieved even with the smallest pulley - .

Thanks for that.

Is it getting hot in here or is it just me???
Time for a chill pill all round and lets start talking friendly like to each other eh? No I am not taking sides, but it does reflect poorly on the forum.

What fuel are you planning to tune it for? That's the most important consideration if you are trying to avoid an intercooler.

For a middle of the road, fairly safe tune on 95 octane, here are my rough numbers - they are a bit of a guess because it depends on the efficiency of the Sprintex. There are numerous other assumptions - the cams remain stock, the displacement hasn't changed (which it most probably has) etc. etc.

With a 10psi pulley on the forged you'd be looking around 242 without an intercooler, and about 253 with one.
With an 11psi pulley on the forged, you'd be looking around 245 without an intercooler, and about 260 with an intercooler.
With a 12psi pulley on the forged, you'd be looking around 247 without an intercooler, and about 267 with an intercooler.

My numbers suggest anything more than 11psi without an intercooler is a waste of time on 95 octane, but like I said there are a lot of assumptions. You will have to retard ignition to prevent detonation and will destroy the majority of the benefit of more boost. To make my point, 19 inches of boost (a massive figure) on this tune with 95 octane without an intercooler will only make 267kw.

Because I'm a generous guy, here are some 98 octane numbers :)

With a 10psi pulley on the forged you'd be looking around 248 without an intercooler, and about 253 with one.
With an 11psi pulley on the forged, you'd be looking around 252 without an intercooler, and about 260 with an intercooler.
With a 12psi pulley on the forged, you'd be looking around 254 without an intercooler, and about 267 with an intercooler.

If you tune it a bit more aggressively for 98 octane (any more aggressive you'll be melting plugs):

With a 10psi pulley on the forged you'd be looking around 259 without an intercooler, and about 266 with one.
With an 11psi pulley on the forged, you'd be looking around 267 without an intercooler, and about 274 with an intercooler.
With a 12psi pulley on the forged, you'd be looking around 273 without an intercooler, and about 281 with an intercooler.

With the aggressive tune on 98 octane with your 12psi pulley, I see around 270kw max without an intercooler. Going any higher without an intercooler is a waste of time.


My engine KW output is calculated by the ratio of boost and atmo pressure x 175 kw mitsi claimed figure.

So...for example 7.5 psi boost is about 175+((7.5/14.7) x 175)0 = 264 kw

Is my maths correct or am I missing something?

The reason this doesn't work is it assumes the supercharger is working for free, when in fact it is robbing exponentially more power the higher the boost goes. It also doesn't account for the increase in air temperature and loss of density with higher boost.

Is it getting hot in here or is it just me???
Time for a chill pill all round and lets start talking friendly like to each other eh?

And now you're encouraging drug use, what is amc coming too?

What fuel are you planning to tune it for? That's the most important consideration if you are trying to avoid an intercooler.

Me, and anyone else using a Sprintex supercharger runs 98 minimum.
It demands it on page two of the Sprintex manual.



For a middle of the road, fairly safe tune on 95 octane, here are my rough numbers - they are a bit of a guess because it depends on the efficiency of the Sprintex. There are numerous other assumptions - the cams remain stock, the displacement hasn't changed (which it most probably has) etc. etc.

Displacement hasn't changed, the pistons were custom matched to each individual bore.


With a 10psi pulley on the forged you'd be looking around 242 without an intercooler, and about 253 with one.

Nope...getting that number already with the 7.5 pulley.


With an 11psi pulley on the forged, you'd be looking around 245 without an intercooler, and about 260 with an intercooler.

Nope getting that with the 7.5 psi pulley.


With a 12psi pulley on the forged, you'd be looking around 247 without an intercooler, and about 267 with an intercooler.

on the basis of above two examples it is hard to ascertain if this number is accurate.


My numbers suggest anything more than 11psi without an intercooler is a waste of time on 95 octane, but like I said there are a lot of assumptions. You will have to retard ignition to prevent detonation and will destroy the majority of the benefit of more boost. To make my point, 19 inches of boost (a massive figure) on this tune with 95 octane without an intercooler will only make 267kw.

Let's forget 95 octane, I only run 98 or 110.


Because I'm a generous guy, here are some 98 octane numbers :)

With a 10psi pulley on the forged you'd be looking around 248 without an intercooler, and about 253 with one.


Getting that already with the 7.5 pulley




With an 11psi pulley on the forged, you'd be looking around 252 without an intercooler, and about 260 with an intercooler.

Getting that with the 7.5 pulley.


With a 12psi pulley on the forged, you'd be looking around 254 without an intercooler, and about 267 with an intercooler.

I dunno about this....


If you tune it a bit more aggressively for 98 octane (any more aggressive you'll be melting plugs):

The tune is always flooded rich due to the 7th injector on the SMT6 piggy back.
Pretty hard to melt iridium plugs.


With a 10psi pulley on the forged you'd be looking around 259 without an intercooler, and about 266 with one.

I think this is a miscalculation when all the relevant details are known.

With an 11psi pulley on the forged, you'd be looking around 267 without an intercooler, and about 274 with an intercooler.
I think this is a miscalculation when all the relevant details are known.

With a 12psi pulley on the forged, you'd be looking around 273 without an intercooler, and about 281 with an intercooler.


With the aggressive tune on 98 octane with your 12psi pulley, I see around 270kw max without an intercooler. Going any higher without an intercooler is a waste of time.

So....you reckon that I can only get the same engine KW with 12 pounds of boost as a Ford XR6T gets on 7 psi?

Better explain that to me, cause the performance of the current vehicle contradicts that.


The reason this doesn't work is it assumes the supercharger is working for free, when in fact it is robbing exponentially more power the higher the boost goes. It also doesn't account for the increase in air temperature and loss of density with higher boost.

Exponential power drain? Are you sure? are you absolutely sure of that?
(It contradicts what i have been led to believe by the good folk at sprintex)


I am already getting around 245 with the 7.5 psi pulley.....i.e 195 atw on a dyno....hence my surprise at your estimates....however if i apply the erroneous margin in your figures which is most likely attributed to the extractors,intake,LPG boost/cooling.....(add about 20kw which people here say they are getting...)

I guess the extractors, cat back, intake and 98 premium/ 110 LPG may have an effect on your calculations,
(probably my fault for not posting the full config, though it is all in my members ride thread and i am not the only one with enhanced exhaust/intake.)
Those mods are claimed to add about 20kw+ at the wheels so your 270 + 20 ish KW is pretty close to my calculations.......lol
But of course we need to subtract the supercharger load if it is indeed exponential.

I had a discussion with my engine builder today about the topic of intercooling, in his opinion (40 years of engine building) he is of the opinion that I can go to 15 psi without an intercooler, 12 psi is "extremely conservative considering the level of components used".

Bear in mind that whilst the maximum boost may be 12 psi i plan to rarely touch that upper limit due to speed limits.
I do not want a racing car or track car, i just want a bullet to take the kids to school in and to go shopping with the missus....
But the aim of extra boost is the extra relative torque right through the rev range with a greater maximum potential and more boost will do that..

So i now have two opinions, i welcome even more.....

Well I for one will be very interested in the Dyno sheet on this puppy. This should reveal all, but then again we all know that dynos can vary widely. One damn expensive shopping trolley Blackie!! Oh and Hayden ha ha ha funny man

I remember asking Sprintex about intercooling recently, they pointed me to this document.
http://member.afraccess.com/media?id=CMN://6A527952&filename=20110207/ATJ_01148573.pdf

Well I for one will be very interested in the Dyno sheet on this puppy. This should reveal all, but then again we all know that dynos can vary widely. One damn expensive shopping trolley Blackie!! Oh and Hayden ha ha ha funny man


I like your attitude mate.....makes me smile when you post....lol

Almost forgot to mention due to all the mathematatics..

Car is booked in for engine installation into my GT on 3rd of March.

Have decided to pay TMR to install it...drive in...drive out.

They have never let me down.


Hopefully Sprintex will have my 3 pulleys machined up by then.....


gotta run it in with a trip to adelaide next month.....lol

I like your attitude mate.....makes me smile when you post....lol
No probs. Like a bit of niggle now and then as long as it is light hearted eh? Interesting about the sprintex and smaller motors. That was a good read. Supercharged Subaru Liberty mmmmm I can see it now (in my dreams of course cos silly me didn't nic a graft of blackies money tree and the wife would have a heart failure!!:eek2:)

Blackstar is E85 available in your area? if it is i'd seriously look into it if low end power and safety are your main goals.

I am closing this thread and here is why

You kids simply can not hack it when someone with knowledge, experience and in this case a degree comes to you and tells you like it is

What do you expect this person to do, tell you crap so it will not upset your precious feelings knowing that you may be wrong? Take a spoon full of concrete and harden the **** up

This is a tech forum, yes, there will be a difference of opinion BUT then there will be people like in this case who is a Licenced Aircraft Maintenence Engineer, someone who is trusted to work on engines that keep in some cases hundreds of people up in the air for over a day. Clearly he knows his stuff and is not FOS. So the person giving advise does not wrap it in petals and just tells it like it is, GET OVER IT

Not everyone will come in here and be all nice and lovey dovey, they will simply give the information as it is, and if you dont like the answer, no matter how much you lecture the person how much they may be offending you, it does not change the fact that these people actually know what they are talking about

And you wonder why the **** most of these people look at AMC and simply walk away shaking their heads??????

Oops, **** me, I just had another tantrum, and some of you will report this, have a cry while in the real world yet another person, a person who clearly is more qualified than most members on this forum put together, walks away again shaking his head at how patetic the attitude is here towards someone who does not believe that a Parra is the be all and end all of conversion.......