Came across references to direct injection DOHC 6G74 engines fitted to some Pajeros which seem to have performance which would help AWDs (180kW @ 5500rpm, 343Nm @ 4500rpm if I recall correctly) :drool:
Pity that they were never released in any AUDM Pajeros :(

Anyway, that got me to searching for info about whether any 6G74 DOHC had been fitted to a 3rd gen, and so far I've only found references to swaps into 2nd gens... :nuts:

The first question, of course, is whether a DOHC engine with its extra height can be squeezed under a 3rd gen bonnet...

If that hurdle can be cleared, what else (ignoring engine management) would need to be sorted?
- induction - especially for a Pajero engine?
- exhaust?
- ancillaries (PS pump, alternator etc)?
- ???

If anyone has info or pointers along these lines, especially regarding Pajero (Nth/Sth) adapted units, my curiosity desires satisfaction.

Of course an ex-380 6G75 is probably a much quicker, easier and less financially draining exercise, but they don't appear to grow on trees either...

Thanks,
Andy.

Madmagna trued this on an engine we had. The timing belt was an issue (getting the right size one) and also a few brackets needed to be moved. The oil filler cap was underneath the inlet manfold toi the the 3rd gen.. there was a few other things too.

i have alot of the stuff here required to do the swap, but i ended up just buying a built SOHC engine. Wish someone would come buy it from me haha (the DOHC engine)

Madmagna trued this on an engine we had. The timing belt was an issue (getting the right size one) and also a few brackets needed to be moved. The oil filler cap was underneath the inlet manfold toi the the 3rd gen.. there was a few other things too.

i have alot of the stuff here required to do the swap, but i ended up just buying a built SOHC engine. Wish someone would come buy it from me haha (the DOHC engine)

This idea of yours was to actually build a 3.5 DOHC using a 3.5 SOHC block (So the gearbox bolts on the right side) though wasn't it?

This idea of yours was to actually build a 3.5 DOHC using a 3.5 SOHC block (So the gearbox bolts on the right side) though wasn't it?

yeah correct. Was planning on using the factory bottom end and the DOHC heads

so how much work exactly would it be to fit the 30M top end to an SOHC 6G74 motor? i'm also guessing that the ECU has to be a custom unit? i've been considering on doing this engine mod, but i'd prefer to keep my car auto

lately i've been thinking about using the 380 motor (if i can find one), and do the same thing (fitting the 30M top end to it and keeping it auto).. is this possible, will it fit in the 3rd gens, what modifications would be needed to consider and how much (rough figure) would this all cost (for either engine mods)?

for all the money you guys are talking of spending; finding/importing a diamante half cut would make a lot more sense woudnlt it? Have everything for a complete sway, oreintated to suit hte 3rd gen and locally 5sp conversions available? What am i missing? Surely someone thought of this.

Only reason I started it lynel was because I found some super cheap dohc heads so it was worth it

I found some super cheap dohc heads so it was worth it

was it?...:ninja: lol

If everything lines up with the oil filler in the back is it likely that these may be heads suitable for a 2nd gen?

To the OP, if better performance is what you are after for your AWD, I believe modding your 6G74 would be more cost efficient and straight-forward. Lets not forget that its a gem of an engine that can produce proven good N/A results.

was it?...:ninja: lol

If everything lines up with the oil filler in the back is it likely that these may be heads suitable for a 2nd gen?

unsure about that aj, from memory paul used the DOHC block i had in his second gen (by used i dont mean that particular block, but it would have fitted his if he wanted so i would assume so)

can buy all the bits i have for $150 if you come pick them up (heads, timing belt etc) theres a few plastic covers and stuff

[QUOTE=-lynel-;1313715]for all the money you guys are talking of spending; finding/importing a diamante half cut would make a lot more sense woudnlt it? Have everything for a complete sway, oreintated to suit hte 3rd gen and locally 5sp conversions available? What am i missing? Surely someone thought of this.[/QUOT

If your talking about a 30M diamante, they are quite rare even here in NZ, there are many 2.5l/3l DOHC cars tho (plus lean burn and GDI engines).

not worth it. 6g74 from a pajero is VERy detuned and will actually loose you power from people who have swapped the pajero 74 into there fwd 3000gt's
just cause it has 2 more cams doesnt mean its better, get a nice cam made up for yours with a set of extractors, exhaust and a tune and it will be a totally different car

^^ asbove i thought of doing this and thought not to i already got 24values
so doing the dohc convertoin is abit pointless coz all u are really gaining is exta weight

if u only had 12values i can see the benifit

To the OP, if better performance is what you are after for your AWD, I believe modding your 6G74 would be more cost efficient and straight-forward. Lets not forget that its a gem of an engine that can produce proven good N/A results.
Its good, but its hardly a 'gem'. The only person here that has got what I'd call 'good' modding results from an NA 6G7 motor on these forums is Jason VRX and judging from what he knows he could wring power out of anything.

Its good, but its hardly a 'gem'. The only person here that has got what I'd call 'good' modding results from an NA 6G7 motor on these forums is Jason VRX and judging from what he knows he could wring power out of anything.

i respectively disagree. For a simple SOHC engine without any fancy VVT wizardry, its pretty good. A simple reflash to 98 fuel nets great gains. Coupling this with decent cams and you can have a very drivable street car.

Its good, but its hardly a 'gem'. The only person here that has got what I'd call 'good' modding results from an NA 6G7 motor on these forums is Jason VRX and judging from what he knows he could wring power out of anything.

and me :P

not that i built it :(

i respectively disagree. For a simple SOHC engine without any fancy VVT wizardry, its pretty good. A simple reflash to 98 fuel nets great gains. Coupling this with decent cams and you can have a very drivable street car.

Keep note the OP drives an AWD. The best thing to do performance wise (and most cost effective) would be a 6G75 conversion. Everybody who has done it swears by it as it makes the car so much more drivable (Kills all those dodgy flat spots in the AWD's).

i respectively disagree. For a simple SOHC engine without any fancy VVT wizardry, its pretty good. A simple reflash to 98 fuel nets great gains. Coupling this with decent cams and you can have a very drivable street car.
I've read here many times that the tune to 98RON fuel nets a lower gain than its competitors. Hardly worth paying in most cases a quarter of the resale of the cars on these forums for the tune.

I've read here many times that the tune to 98RON fuel nets a lower gain than its competitors. Hardly worth paying in most cases a quarter of the resale of the cars on these forums for the tune.

Do you have evidence to support your theory?

I've read here many times that the tune to 98RON fuel nets a lower gain than its competitors. Hardly worth paying in most cases a quarter of the resale of the cars on these forums for the tune.

Hardly, SKR retune is pittence for the gain

Came across references to direct injection DOHC 6G74 engines fitted to some Pajeros which seem to have performance which would help AWDs (180kW @ 5500rpm, 343Nm @ 4500rpm if I recall correctly) :drool:
Pity that they were never released in any AUDM Pajeros :(

Anyway, that got me to searching for info about whether any 6G74 DOHC had been fitted to a 3rd gen, and so far I've only found references to swaps into 2nd gens... :nuts:

The first question, of course, is whether a DOHC engine with its extra height can be squeezed under a 3rd gen bonnet...

If that hurdle can be cleared, what else (ignoring engine management) would need to be sorted?
- induction - especially for a Pajero engine?
- exhaust?
- ancillaries (PS pump, alternator etc)?
- ???

If anyone has info or pointers along these lines, especially regarding Pajero (Nth/Sth) adapted units, my curiosity desires satisfaction.

Of course an ex-380 6G75 is probably a much quicker, easier and less financially draining exercise, but they don't appear to grow on trees either...

Thanks,
Andy.

1) There were no Direct injection 6G74 DOHC motors. Only normal injection. that is of course unless there is a model I've never heard of before which does have it....link me if you like.....but AFAIK...no such thing

2) correct :D

3) Height, Yeah, not any different height wise to a SOHC 24v

4) Well the block is the same as a magna one....so why would you use a RWD block when you already have a FWD block? it's essentially a head swap.

5) Only information i can give you related to 2nd gens as that's the way they slot in.

6) Correct, 6G75 is the way to go, minimal engineering needed to make the block fit into an AWD

the heads on the 75 flow exceptionally well for stockers. from what ive read they are the best flowing V6 head mitsu have ever made into a production car.
If you'd like a 380 motor, PM me and I'll give you the number of a guy down here who has one.

;1314157']1) There were no Direct injection 6G74 DOHC motors. Only normal injection. that is of course unless there is a model I've never heard of before which does have it....link me if you like.....but AFAIK...no such thing.

The Wikipedia 6G7 page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_6G7_engine) links to this... (http://media.mitsubishi-motors.com/pressrelease/e/corporate/detail215.html)

Andy.

but those wont release to us so it would be bloody lot of money getting one here then it you gotta get it passed

alot of work and a lot of money

The Wikipedia 6G7 page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_6G7_engine) links to this... (http://media.mitsubishi-motors.com/pressrelease/e/corporate/detail215.html)

Andy.

I can only see links to it being produced and released in Asian markets? (again correct me if I'm wrong) (meaning it'd be as rare as rocking horse shit to find one here)

Is there a 6G75 DOHC GDI engine that will fit any magnas/380s?

Is there a 6G75 DOHC GDI engine that will fit any magnas/380s?

This I'm 100% on. No :P

;1314190']This I'm 100% on. No :P

=(

Being fairly uneducated in anything other than the basics of car engines (for now)
How many problems are you likely to run into trying to go direct injection on a port injection car? Would it be something like (if there is a large enough spot in the head) putting one of those Holden SIDI direct injection injectors in each cylinder and getting an aftermarket engine management system to tune it? Are direct injectors a screw in type thing to be replaceable?

;1314186']I can only see links to it being produced and released in Asian markets? (again correct me if I'm wrong) (meaning it'd be as rare as rocking horse shit to find one here)

Hi Tuffy, here's some rocking horse poo for you: :)
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290475790345

$3k+ for Mitsubishi 3500 V6 Gdi 6G74 DOHC, Year 2000 model 12,000kms. Interesting reading, they started production in 1997, so there should be a few out there. Took me 2 minutes to find that one and it's 20km away from me.


TIMI! I'm pretty sure that Direct Injection (DI) is where the injector squirts the fuel into the combustion chamber - the injector is in a similar position to the spark plug.
Non DI engines have the injector in the intake manifold, a few cm or more away from the actual cylinder and the fuel has to get past the valves to get into the combustion chamber. DI would bypass the valves.

So without drilling new holes through the head and plugging up the old injector holes, you cannot make a DI engine out of non-DI one.

However, I'm not a mech and haven't even read up on this stuff, so I could be wrong.

Found some interesting stats that I've just got round to reading:

at this page: http://aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=18046
are engine power specs on a wide range of import engines.
Here's the Mitsu V6 range...

From memory, the 3.5L SOHC is around 155 to 166kW, xxx Nm @ xxxx rpm.
Surprisingly to me, the first engine, at 1998cc, matches that. But at idle with no boost it might struggle to get a Magna moving.
But with all of that kit available, why was the ralliart just a 180kW 3.5L SOHC engine? Surely a 3.5L DOHC 194kW engine which was available 10 years earlier would have been quicker, cheaper to market????
I'm assuming that a 6A would not just bolt in where a 6G normally goes....?


Name: 6A12G twin turbo
Type: 1998cc EFI DOHC 24-valve V6 with twin turbos
Power: 160kW @ 6000 (179kW 1993 Galant VR4 4WD)
Torque: 309Nm @ 3500
Sources: 1993 Eterna XX-4 FWD (fits Australian Galant V6)

Name: 6A13 twin turbo
Type: 2498cc EFI DOHC 24-valve V6 twin turbo
Power: 208kW @ 5500
Torque: 363Nm @ 4000
Sources: 96-97 Galant VR4

Name: 6G72
Type: 2972cc EFI DOHC 24-valve V6
Power: 157kW @ 6000
Torque: 270Nm @ 3000
Sources: 92-93 Diamante (Magna)

Name: 6G72 MIVEC
Type: 2972cc EFI DOHC 24-valve V6 with variable valve timing
Power: 201kW @ 7000
Torque: 301Nm @ 4500
Sources: 96-97 Diamante 30M-SE

Name: 6G72 twin turbo
Type: 2972cc EFI DOHC 24-valve V6 twin turbo
Power: 208kW @ 6000
Torque: 426Nm @ 2500
Sources: 1994-on GTO (3000GT)

Name: 6G74
Type: 3496cc EFI DOHC 24-valve V6
Power: 194kW @ 6000
Torque: 323Nm @ 4500
Sources: 92-93 Debonair

and me :P

not that i built it :(

Hey mate, your engine has fair amount of my knowledge in it ;)

Chris got alot of specs and what to do's from me when he was having that engine built :) I think he actually got it built spec for spec to what i gave him and come out with very close to a "donkey" clone (although yours does run bigger cams than mine but the power outcomes are fairly close)

Keep note the OP drives an AWD. The best thing to do performance wise (and most cost effective) would be a 6G75 conversion. Everybody who has done it swears by it as it makes the car so much more drivable (Kills all those dodgy flat spots in the AWD's).

A AWD magna/verada needs all the low down torque it can muster, due to its fairly high kerb weight and its crappy gearing. Hence why the mildly modded 3.8L OR 3.5L with a blower is the way to go with those heavy cars.

With a FWD manual I personally still prefer the allroundness of my modded 3.5L, as to me its quite a good compromise between revabilty and power/torque outcome.
If the car is a FWD auto then a 3.8L is nice additon but traction from the great low down torque can be a bit of a issue (so ive been informed by the people that i built the 3.8L for there 5 speed auto KJ verada)

=(

Being fairly uneducated in anything other than the basics of car engines (for now)
How many problems are you likely to run into trying to go direct injection on a port injection car? Would it be something like (if there is a large enough spot in the head) putting one of those Holden SIDI direct injection injectors in each cylinder and getting an aftermarket engine management system to tune it? Are direct injectors a screw in type thing to be replaceable?

Yeah pretty much a terrible idea. Even if you drill and tap the cylinder head its still never going to work properly. Sure hi pressure fuel pumps and injectors are easily accesible but because of the very short injection time you need to set up the turbulence in the combustion chamber to ensure the fuel atomises and mixes correctly. This is done with a million and million and millions of dollars of design spent on altering the shape of the combustion chamber and piston. The piston plays a pivotal role in allowing this in the spark ignition engine allowing flame propagation to a well mixed charge.

Secondly the computing required to control such systems is massive. Theres a reason why not only mitsubishis first modern engines featuring this (mercedes gullwing had a DI system) never lived up to expectation and this was the control system. Lean burn systems are very hard to manage (stoich at spark plug but lean all around) and in all likely hood these would run an electronic throttle. Most aftermarket systems (not really the pinnacle of engineers most of them work for the car companies) would not be capable of running such a system.

Found some interesting stats that I've just got round to reading:

at this page: http://aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=18046
are engine power specs on a wide range of import engines.
Here's the Mitsu V6 range...

From memory, the 3.5L SOHC is around 155 to 166kW, xxx Nm @ xxxx rpm.
Surprisingly to me, the first engine, at 1998cc, matches that. But at idle with no boost it might struggle to get a Magna moving.
But with all of that kit available, why was the ralliart just a 180kW 3.5L SOHC engine? Surely a 3.5L DOHC 194kW engine which was available 10 years earlier would have been quicker, cheaper to market????
I'm assuming that a 6A would not just bolt in where a 6G normally goes....?

The ralliart engine may only have 180kW at 5500rpm but it has 333Nm at 4000rpm which equates to more handy for street use.

TIMI! I'm pretty sure that Direct Injection (DI) is where the injector squirts the fuel into the combustion chamber - the injector is in a similar position to the spark plug.
Non DI engines have the injector in the intake manifold, a few cm or more away from the actual cylinder and the fuel has to get past the valves to get into the combustion chamber. DI would bypass the valves.

So without drilling new holes through the head and plugging up the old injector holes, you cannot make a DI engine out of non-DI one.

However, I'm not a mech and haven't even read up on this stuff, so I could be wrong.

Yeh this is what i meant, but the turbulance stuff explained by GoTRICE cleared it up as a not to do at home thing.

You dont want a GDI engine, they have a terrible reputation here in NZ due to having problems with our fuel, it has a higher sulpher content than the jap stuff and causes injector on intake problems, gunking up etc. in the GDI 6G72, alot of exhaust gas is reciculated and burned again. Its a shame as alot of people think all diamantes are unreliable here due to the GDI engine ones having a bad rap