I posted about cracks in the rear subframe near the swaybar mounting points about a year ago (prev post "Rear Suspension Cracks") http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73677 .

This is what happened because I ignored getting it fixed...

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/6576/dsc01237bv.jpg

I've sourced a secondhand subframe - anyone have any tips on removing and replacing this as a DIY job. Will I need to drop the rear diff out ?

Any advice welcome.

It looks like you have an adjustable Whiteline rear sway bar with the extra holes in the flat mounting blades. Some have 2 or even 3 holes per side compared to stock single hole. What diameter in mm is your bar? What setting did you have yours mounted with? i.e. Front , middle or back holes on each side. I believe you can use a whole range or options with Right (F, M, and B) and Left (f, m and b), With 7 options: Ff; Mm; Bb; Fm; Fb; fM; and fB.

The loads can increase by a huge amount with thicker sway bars ( 60% from 16mm to 18mm non adjustable bar and 257% from 16mm to 22mm non adjustable bar) and even a fair bit with settings chosen on adjustable versions like yours. http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/010barup.pdf

Yours also has the hoseclamp and bush locking kit to stop the bar sliding out of alignment. Maybe that adds to the loads the subframe mounts bear instead of the bar moving sideways in the main bushes when loads are extreme.

Put that bar back on your new subframe and the same problem will resurface. If you really want to use the bar, take your new subframe to a welder. show him the bit that broke off from the old one, and get some supporting metal welded in.

Same deal as Spud100 as well by the looks of things,

I have a good one here for the AWD, if you get it, make sure that you do as Cummins has suggested and beef it up before you put a new one on.

I have listed the frame as a complete back end but am willing to separate if needed

Thanks one and all - will be bracing the new frame when it arrives (should have checked supply with Mits-Fix first !).

Ishrub - yes it is a whiteline bar which I was very happy with on the Front settings (hardest) before the cracks appeared at which point I moved to the middle setting both sides. The bar is 18mm. As it was running on standard Verada shocks and springs there was probably a bit of extra work to do by the bar and frame. Also got a front strut brace and urethane bushes on the front bar.

I'm still a bit surprised about the cracks and breakage as I don't drive that hard on the road although have done some kms on dirt roads, such is...

I have the workshop manual now, but anyone got extra tips for dropping the subframe out ?

Thanks one and all - will be bracing the new frame when it arrives (should have checked supply with Mits-Fix first !).

Ishrub - yes it is a whiteline bar which I was very happy with on the Front settings (hardest) before the cracks appeared at which point I moved to the middle setting both sides. The bar is 18mm. As it was running on standard Verada shocks and springs there was probably a bit of extra work to do by the bar and frame. Also got a front strut brace and urethane bushes on the front bar.

I'm still a bit surprised about the cracks and breakage as I don't drive that hard on the road although have done some kms on dirt roads, such is...

I have the workshop manual now, but anyone got extra tips for dropping the subframe out ?

I found it easier to disconnect the tailshaft, then disconnect the driveshafts from the hubs. Then drop the whole diff & subframe assembly as one, before removing the diff.

There might be an easier way but that worked for me. :)

My subframe is not nearly as bad as the photos above.
Just about to have a chat with my mechanic. I saw this yesterday, worst cracks have propagated about 1 cm. In every case from a rough edge of the frame, each side of the actual bar support brackets.
I am running the 18 mm adjustable bar on the hardest settings.
The bit that really annoys me is that the Whiteline bar has caused so much collateral damage to the exhaust pipe and the front of the spare wheel well.
Basically the damn thing does not and will never fit correctly, add in the fact that is is around 25 mm too wide so that the links are not vertical and the sections through the bushes are not parallel to the bush bore centerline. This is why the bar wants to walk out to one side of the vehicle.
End result is that the bar as has been made by Whiteline is "not fit for purpose"
Gerry

spud100 - didn't you chase this problem up with Whiteline previously and have them resupply or repair yours? I remember someone did or were going to about a year aor so ago and wrote about it in the forums.

You would think that a company who sells after market bits like this, do appropriate research & development on their products. A bit of in field testing would have shown up problems with length, hitting things, overloading subframes etc. Apparently not.

spud100 - didn't you chase this problem up with Whiteline previously and have them resupply or repair yours? I remember someone did or were going to about a year aor so ago and wrote about it in the forums.

Think you will find that was Elwyn, he went to several places and ended up with his car in their workshop from memory and they made a new bar for him

Yes - Guilty as charged/stated by Mal. I bought the "blade adjustable" rear sway bar to suit a vehicle with no OEM swaybar - was fitted to a KJ series 1.

Looking at the pics of the damage to this AWD, the situation for me was a bit different.

My swaybar is mounted differently - by brackets supplied by Whiteline which are bolted-on by the mounting bolts for the rear subframe of FWD cars. Madmagna is of the opinion that this method of mounting is borderline madness/dangerous, and I can see his point absolutley - it means there is at least 5-6mm less thread being effective on the main mounting bolt for the subframe. So far, for me, that hasn't been a problem.

The problem I had was that the swaybar I bought, correctly mounted (despite a complete lack of instructions from Whiteline) hit on the toe control arms on both sides of the car. In addition, the quality of the u-bolts, nuts etc in the Whiteline fitting kit was quite shoddy, and little plates for the u-bolts were the wrong size altogether - we made up our own, just to get the bar fitted.

I contacted Whiteline by phone, and they denied having any facility to inspect my car - they sent me to my local Pedders outlet as their agent (I had bought the sway bar and a couple of front srtut braces thru AutoBarn, and had fitted them myself). Local Pedders (just the service bay of a car dealer in Tamworth) were pretty good, had the car up n down on hoists and doing brief drives and taking digital photos and contacting Whiteline for 3 hours all up.

When I next spoke to Whiteline, the same office guy wanted ME to take photos to PROVE that the bar was actually contacting the OEM suspension! He said that Pedders only confirmed that the bar was fitted correctly, not that they confirmed any problem. So, I crawled under car, took photos and emailed them. I was getting a bit tired of it all by this time - a few weeks stuffing around at least - and mentioned NSW Office of Fair Trading..... Office boy at Whiteline blew up and told me he'd see me in court etc. When I managed to calm down and talk some sence into him again, he finally admitted that I could call to their office/R&D centre and they would have a look - this was the facility he'd told me weeks prior did not exist (and which I drove practically straight past the day after my inital phone call).

When I arrived my telephone-mate was busy (on the phone, what else?) and I copped some smart-mouth comment from some other guy in the office. The guys downstairs in the workshop bay, couldn't have been more different - not a bit up themselves, clearly proud of their stuff and more than willing to sort out my problem. On the day, they could plainly see the issue, and they pulled my bar off the car to compare to the "master bar" of that model - wasn't the slightest bit close to spec. They heated and formed my bar to match the spec, after trying longer links at either side which made no improvement. I ran the modifed bar on the car for a few weeks to see if I had any issues (virtually none), so they made a new bar to that shape and sent it up to me. I fitted it myself, again.

Basically, my problem with them was a dick in the office who could not accept that their product, in my case, was a bit dodgey spec-wise. He tried long and hard to fob me off.

I must pay credit to lots of help (well, back-up) I had from another member who had a similar problem a bit earlier than I did - it was the big hairy bloke in Canberra...... Wookiee. He had the same issue as me, but in his case he was able to go to the Whiteline factory in Minto and had it sorted with less fuss. By the time I came along, Whiteline was owned by RedRanger/Nolathane and their office whom I rang was now near Gosford NSW (Ourimbah, almost on the Syd-Newcastle freeway). I just struck a clown who was unhelpful.

I assume the problem for OP in this thread was fitting a beefier rear bar to a car that came standard with swaybar - they are mounted quite differently. The problem here seems to be that the stiffer bar overstresses the factory mountings? Although I note that in one case the production quality of the Whiteline bar seems suspect - given my experience, that is a definite possibility.

Had the new subframe beefed up as the pics show. Will be cleaning and painting it up before installing.

Thanks Alscall for the tips.

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/9542/dsc01239uo.jpg

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9363/dsc01241d.jpg

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/305/dsc012420.jpg

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/2825/dsc012440.jpg

Mine broke today. Was triving along and then heard a loud crack/twang then a constant banging around in the rear. Had a look and it's exactly like this one.

I too have they whiteline sway bar and it was and has been on the stiffest hole sincew i put it in and then broke. Seems like a trend here.

Are these heat treated at all? Has anyone with extra plates welded in had any trouble?

So, would people suggest not putting beefier sway bars on their AWDs, or just not Whiteline?? i've been thinking about lowering mine and putting a beefier rear sway bar on, but i'd rather not have my back end fall apart lol

Ive been running the Selby adjustable version for 20k now....no probs yet!

Had this problem a year ago. Had been aware for some time that cracks were propogating on the rear subframe.
Firstly I would blame some extremely poor manufacturing practice. I observed that all the cracks had started from a notch in the edge of the subframe.
Fix was to drill a small hole at the end of each crack, weld up the crack and add some reinforcement.
Year later no sign of a problem.
Gerry

Not sure if its the sway bar size or the brand.

My KJ had a 16mm from the factory and i only upgraded it to an 18mm which is what the TL's onwards had from the factory anyway. Not usre if using the stiffer hole setting was the cause or not.

If you have a TL onwards then i would just leave it stock.

Well worth keeping an eye on your rear end for any signs of cracks.

I have prob done 100k + since putting the 18mm in.