now i think i'm pretty sure on understanding the basics on a fluid change and bleed but i just wanted confirm with you guys.

do i suck the entire contents of the brake master cylinder out whilst the car is off and clean any residue left behind then fill with new fluid?

and when its time for bleeding is it a process of , peddle down, once peddle is down undo bleed nipple untill fluid has stopped/steadied then tighten bleed nipple and peddle up. repeat process untill clear?

oh and apparently is the master cylinder not suppose to drop below half way during bleeding?

while I dont know about how to get all the old fluid out of the brake system, I have watched /assisted (a long time ago assisted) in bleeding of brakes.


you will need the engine running to bleed the brakes system - as its vacume assisted.

Get a helper to help you - someone to just put thier foot on the brake when you command them to - otherwise its not going to be as easy as you want it to be.

You can buy / make brake bleeding catch can thingies - that go onto the system and dont let ait back into the system (undoing all the bleeding work you have done) when the pedal is released.

Keep topping up the master cyclinder with brake fluid too - do not let it drop too low.

I think I used a syringe to suck most of the old fluid out of the reservoir, didn't actually wipe it out.
Then topped-up with the new brake fluid, that conveniently was a different colour to the old. I didn't bother with the bleed-bottle attached to each bleeder, cos I had an accomplice to pump brakes on command while I was under car with spanner on the bleeders. I used a catch-bottle to collect old fluid, I just didn't bother making sure the end of tube was under the fluid level at all times.
The different colour of the new fluid made it easy to see when each line had been bleed of the old fluid.

Workshop manual for 3rd gens suggests bleeding in this order: Drivers Rear, Passenger Front, Passnger Rear, Drivers Front.

As Doddski says, keep topping up as you go, to avoid sucking air into the master cylinder from an empty reservoir.

are you sure the car has to be running whilst bleeding?

and i have a mate to help pump, but was wondering on the sequence, do i open the bleed nipple prior to depressing the brake peddle or after the brake peddle has been depressed ?

EDIT: thanks fellas but ive finally found a link that clears everything up.

Having the engine running will speed the process up considerably - and it also helps force all the trapped air out of the system.

Whenever Iv seen people try to bleed brakes with the engine not running - they fail... qualified mechanics as well.

Wont be running for that long if thats your worry - its not a job that takes hours and hours to do.

lol Never do mine with engine on, I just use gravity.

Steps:
(1) Suck all the fluid out of the master cylinder with a syringe, use the syringe to blast any stubborn deposits in the bottom. Suck out, add fresh fluid.
(2) Start with any wheel you like, wheels can stay on, but jack up so you can get to the bleed valve.
(3) Open bleeder valve, watch air bubbles then dirty fluid then fresh fluid come out. No need to pump anything.
(4) Shut valve, put cap back on, use water to wash brake fluid off caliper, move onto the next wheel. Top up when finished.
(5) Test drive. Maximum of 1 hour for all 4.

If you really want to be thorough though, pop the pistons out of the calipers as there will be rubber debris in there too. Good time to check bores, pads etc. Maybe when the car has done over 200,000 Km?

Having the engine running will speed the process up considerably - and it also helps force all the trapped air out of the system.

Whenever Iv seen people try to bleed brakes with the engine not running - they fail... qualified mechanics as well.

Wont be running for that long if thats your worry - its not a job that takes hours and hours to do.

thanks man, yeah not worried about the car running just checking thats all.

dont suppose the master cylinder cap was on when bleeding? or do i just leave it off?

Leave cap on, if you are pumping the pedal a jet of fluid can jump out on the pedal return stroke.

Running engine provides vacuum for the brake booster, it has no effect on the flow of fluid around the circuit. How will it help if you are bleeding the brakes?

coolie ..... well i'm set.

just need it to stop raining now..

Running engine provides vacuum for the brake booster, it has no effect on the flow of fluid around the circuit. How will it help if you are bleeding the brakes?

I had to turn the car on to do mine, otherwise the peddle goes rock hard after like 3 pumps, couldnt push it at all..... With the car on you could feel it pushing the fluid.... Might have something to do with abs? I dunno...

Good point.

ended up making a vacuum pump as i was without a hand , she works a treat... and the brakes have improved ,very happy with how it turned out, gotta love learning new things.

url=/5216814847/]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4087/5216814847_7a9d893740.jpg[/url]
vacuum pump (http://www.flickr.com/photos/42758865@N06/5216814847/) by billyblunt (http://www.flickr.com/people/42758865@N06/), on Flickr

The vacuum pump idea is great - you can do it single handed whilst having one hand on the spanner to the bleeder ready to shut it off. Some brake shops use a power bleeder which sits over the brake master cylinder and forces the fluid thru the lines......with the same result as billyblunt's idea. Easy to fabricate too. One of the best ideas I've seen for some time.

For those who are interested, there is a one-man method using a drink bottle in the 2nd gen section. It is in their Brake Mods sticky. Earlier advice somewhere around here is that it may not be necessary to drill the bottle, like it says there, just stab it with a screwdriver.

This talk of syringes is a worry. Dont have any so Super Cheap sold me a rubber turkey baster thing for a few bucks, I think you could also use a cheap battery tester.

Just to let everybody know, this was not my idea but rather my grandfathers , he told me the basic principles on what is involved and i replicated it, bloody good idea tho.

as for the turkey baster that is what i used, it cost me about $10 and is of good quality but in hindsight i wish i had just gotten a $2 plastic syringe, reason being you have to be careful with the turkey baster cause it drips if its not turned upside down whereas the syringe holds the liquid better but will take longer to extract.

For those who are interested, there is a one-man method using a drink bottle in the 2nd gen section. It is in their Brake Mods sticky. Earlier advice somewhere around here is that it may not be necessary to drill the bottle, like it says there, just stab it with a screwdriver.

This talk of syringes is a worry. Dont have any so Super Cheap sold me a rubber turkey baster thing for a few bucks, I think you could also use a cheap battery tester.

Just get some from a chemist, if they ask why you want them just say for measuring stuff

Workshop manual for 3rd gens suggests bleeding in this order: Drivers Rear, Passenger Front, Passnger Rear, Drivers Front.
That's interesting as I remember being told years ago that the correct way to bleed a dual braking system was to start with the wheel closest to the master cylinder (front right) then diagonally opposite (rear Left).
Then the next wheel closest to the master cylinder (front left) then diagonally opposite (rear right).
The positions are for a second gen, dunno where the master cylinder is in a 3rd gen