I want to become one of you (but it looks like a long road ahead)
(Maybe should have posted in tech-torque, but some of this is vehicle specific)

Overview (bit of a long post)
After 20 years scooting about in a 1st gen Magna, I've finally upgraded to a KJ Verada Xi, which
I love. But what I don't like is that because I've moved from a car that I could happily maintain and repair myself, with one simple ECU, to one with a number of more complex ECUs, I may find myself forced in the future to go to a dealer and/or an auto electrician.

This bugs me, and because electronics and software are my living and long-time hobbies, I want to gain control of these aspects of my new car. What I'd like to acheive is:-
* Read DTCs myself
* Do whatever else dealers can do with a MUT-II
* Access dynamic data such as speed, RPM, etc.
* Access body electronics status (doors, windows, lights, etc)
* Control body electronics from a ECU of my own

I also intend to install a car computer, and interface it to the above functions.

Now I've done a lot of research into what might be done via the diagnostic connector, and while i've learned a lot, I've also beome overwhelmed and confused. And a lot of what I've read seems vague and imprecise. People talk about things like:-
* Using this or that scanning/logging/diagnostic/reprogramming software
* with this or that interface cable/device
* short out/ground this pin on the connector to read the codes
* OBD-II compliance
All this seems to go on with little reference or apparent concern about which particular car and which of the several interfaces is being used, as if it is all fairly interchangable. Surely there's a whole mess of compatibility issues going on here? The advice for selecting the right cables and software for any given car seems too vague to be sure that you'll buy something that will work for you. Then again, maybe I've just read so much that it's all just got blurred...

Ultimately, I want to build the interface electronics and write the software for it myself, but it would be unwise of me to not to take advantage of and learn from all the work others have already done in this area. So I should first start with some of the existing software and buy/build the appropriate cable/interface device for it.

To help with selecting these, and for my own understanding, I began by looking at the diagnostic connector.

Investigation
From the workshop manual cicruit diagrams, I made the following diagram for the KJ:-

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/8481/veradaobdcconnector.jpg (http://img89.imageshack.us/i/veradaobdcconnector.jpg/)

It would appear that there are two major interafces to the ECUs, the ISO K-Line (ISO9141/ISO14230) and Single-Wire CAN (SWC), plus some possibly/probably proprietry interfaces for the AirCon and Cruise Control on the unstandardized pins.

(Starting from 2008, The CAN bus will replace the other interfaces and protocols, making all this
much more straightforward, but my car is stuck in the transition/bloody mess period...)

I have some "industrial strength" USB to CAN interface devices made by Softing in Germany, and some control software that came with them (from Warwick control technology), but these only use the standard 2 wire CAN bus. Possibly these can be made to talk to SWC, but I don't know about this yet.

The K-line can be interfaced with just a few resistors and a tranistor, and the protocol doesn't seem overly hard to implement. CAN bus on the other hand, is much more complex, especially the protocol, so as mentioned above, it would be good to start with existing interfaces and software.

My Questions (at last)

Are the two major ECU interfaces (SWC and K-Line) functionaly identical, or is each dedicated to a specific set of functions?

Which of these does the MUT conect to? Or does it use both?

Does the MUT also interface to the specialzed interfaces (for A/C and CC)?

Can anyone here tell me more about these other interfaces, and the protocols they use?

If anyone has a MUT, can they see which pins it uses on the diagnostic connector?

The 12 pin "ECU flash" connector next to the OBDC with just a single wire on pin 6 appears to be related to programming the engine ECU.

When and how is this connector used?

Is there any documentation on its interface and protocol?

Can anyone find it in the cicruit diagrams? (buggered if I can see it)

Can someone recommend a cable/interface device that is known to do useful things on 3rd gens and can be used by the Mitsulogger/EVOscan/Freediag/Whatever software? (cheap/free is of course better)

Do these things use both of the major interfaces?

On 3rd gens, is there a simple method of reading fault codes, morse code style with a voltmeter/LED/dash panel lamps. (I get the impression this is only for 1st and 2nd gens)

I apologize if any of these questions are dumb or have obvious answers - I am a little overwhelmed and confused by all I've seen so far.

Rob Storey

Hi , ive got an EVOscan USB cable for our grey import Delica , 6G72 engine . i bought it off a company in NZ called Limitless or something like that. the Delica uses JOBD ( JapaneseOBD ) as they were ot meant to be sold outside Japan. have a look on thier website.

Can someone recommend a cable/interface device that is known to do useful things on 3rd gens and can be used by the Mitsulogger/EVOscan/Freediag/Whatever software? (cheap/free is of course better).

Evoscan (http://www.evoscan.com/) (aka Limitless) sell suitable cables. If you want to be able to reflash the ECU, you will need an OpenPort 1.3U or 2.0 cable, otherwise the 1.3D will work fine for logging.


On 3rd gens, is there a simple method of reading fault codes, morse code style with a voltmeter/LED/dash panel lamps. (I get the impression this is only for 1st and 2nd gens)

According to the Ellery workshop manual I have, there is.

As above Evoscan is probably the best bet for what your after.

The Magna ECU is not OBDII complaint as per standards.

I will have a look at some of the info relating to this ECU in the next few days.

All interfaces with this ECU I have worked on have been via the Kline diags we use to test in development.

Hi, Thanks for your responses.

The OpenPort 2.0 has an embedded processor, wheras the 1.3x does not. I think this is to provide J2534 compatibility (mainly for reflashing), and it would get around some apparent baud rate problems when trying to talk to ECUs from Windows. It's $170, so I'll give it miss unless sometime in the future I decide that J2534/reflashing is essential...

I've found schematics for the 1.3x, so I can build one myself, and pay just $25 for the EvoScan software. It also gives me a reference point for building other K-Line interfaces with my own embedded processor, which suits my purpose better, as I want scan/logging facilities independant of Windows.

Reflashing would be fun (and scary) , but not an important aspect for me at the moment.
BTW, it seems that the white connector is to provide 12v to the engine ECU, which is required for reflashing.

WytWun,
Can you elaborate on the fault code operation you mentioned from the Ellery workshop manual?

BTW, do you think this a good manual? (can't find any Haynes or Gregorys that covers the KJ)

Thanks for your help

I just realized that the following information was missing from my original post.

From the workshop manual circuit diagrams:-

Pins 4,5,16 Grounds and Battery+

Pin 1 SW-CAN (Single-Wire CAN bus) connects to:-
Engine/AT ECU pin 84
ABS ECU pin 12
Traction Control ECU pin 1
AirCon ECU pin 18

Pin 7 K-LINE connects to:-
Engine/AT ECU pin 85
ABS ECU pin 11
Traction Control ECU pin 14
SRS ECU pin 20
BEM ECU pin 5

Pin 11 (function?) connects to:-
AirCon ECU pin 17

Pin 13 (function?) connects to:-
Cruise Control ECU pin 11

Pin 14 Connects to Vehicle Speed Sensor (non-standard use of CAN-L pin)

The Single-Wire CAN bus goes to alsmost as many ECUs as the K-Line. So I'm still wondering if certain functionality is only accessible via SWC, and whether the MUT uses it...

You can download the workshop manual from here:

http://www.lisho.net/?page_id=3

Can you elaborate on the fault code operation you mentioned from the Ellery workshop manual?

Seems that it mostly consists of grounding pin 1 of the diagnostic connector, and then switching the ignition on. Any codes in any of the ECUs will then cause the respective indicator lamp to flash in a specified pattern.


BTW, do you think this a good manual? (can't find any Haynes or Gregorys that covers the KJ)

I've got no other printed manuals to compare against, unfortunately. I do think that the material in the downloadable manual has better diagrams, but my installation is screwy in that very little of the linking between the component PDFs works. I can find stuff more easily in the Ellery, and when I need further clarification I go to the trouble of poking about the PDFs...

Seems that it mostly consists of grounding pin 1 of the diagnostic connector, and then switching the ignition on. Any codes in any of the ECUs will then cause the respective indicator lamp to flash in a specified pattern.

OK, I'd formed the impression that this was for second gens, and wanted to be sure before I shorted out an ECU... Thanks.

Little Newsflash: I've just done some research, and it appears that Single-Wire CAN is an outgrowth of GMLAN, which was only introduced around 2004, so SWC could not have been used on a 2002 vehicle.

While SWC now uses pin 1 of the OBDC, it seems back in 2002 Mitsubishi used pin 1 to trigger the fault codes display. This explains why it goes to most of the ECUs, and therefore it's almost certain that the K-Line is the only interactive diagnostic interface to the ECUs on third gens.

That PDF system certainly can get awkward, and it never seems to fill/zoom the way I want it to..
Have you tried deleting the folder and running the setup again to fix up the linkages?
(I installed it on 2 PCs, and it worked OK on both)


Sparky,
Thanks, but I already have those factory PDFs.
I was looking to supplement them with something physical and friendly from Haynes/Gregorys/Ellery...