Yeh i have used the 'search function' and it doesn't make finding my answer very easy...
My car is a TJ vr-x
Is there any other filter's i can use instead of the standard filter in my intake?
I noticed the standard filter retains ALOT of heat, Not for flow just for the tenperature of air and i know K&N has no real benefits to the engine due to the cpu or something.
Anyone wanna help me out here?

EDIT:In simple: is there a filter or a way i can reduce the heat of the air by using a different method of getting the air into my engine?

you can always go a CAI with the pod in the inner wheel well, or find your self an ezy boy pod box

you can always go a CAI with the pod in the inner wheel well, or find your self an ezy boy pod box

I hear for a magna they are not worth the time or money.

you can always go a CAI with the pod in the inner wheel well, or find your self an ezy boy pod boxy.

That was the answer to your question. If you can think of an alternative method, by all means try it.

That was the answer to your question. If you can think of an alternative method, by all means try it.

The standard air intake for the magna is basicly a cai but, the only colder places are down low which requires long pipe and therefore air turbulence or cutting a hole in my bonnet and sticking a pod out. Screw it, ill stock some ice cubes in the filter box.

The filter itself retains heat? I doubt it, as it has a constant flow of ambient air going through it. If you mean the box itself, its hot because its near a hot engine. (D'oh) The box is plastic and would transfer little of this heat to the actual air flow, seing the plastic is an insulator and the air moves pretty fast.

On a really hot day, you lose a lot of Kw due to lowered air density, but no CAI will fix that, its still sucking in hot air whether its from under the leading edge of the bonnet or somewhere else. unless you can cool down the air coming in somehow. Dry ice packed around the filter box perhaps? lol Liquid oxygen injection? lol lol


Forced induction will solve the problem . . . . . a nice supercharger will compress that bothersome hot air nicely back to its original cold size. lol

dam magnas, all the 'easy' KW are expensive.

Every NA car ever made has had the problem of Hot Air = Less power.

There!

You are not alone!

Feel better now?

dam magnas, all the 'easy' KW are expensive.

Ever thought that if getting another 50 Kw out of an engine was easy, that the manufacturers wouldn't have done it already?

Every NA car ever made has had the problem of Hot Air = Less power.

There!

You are not alone!

Feel better now?

Other cars have it easier to stop the problem but haha, oh well, i guess i wont bother with any intake mod.

Other cars have it easier to stop the problem


Oh, Really? Give us an example then!

Ever thought that if getting another 50 Kw out of an engine was easy, that the manufacturers wouldn't have done it already?

Well i figure they could, for instance when they make a car they have to tune it to an extent to make it run, they could tune it and gain an extra 10kw or so but i understand some reasons why they dont, or they could just fit a free-flowing exhaust to every car. The same amount of pipe.
I see why they dont due to fuel effieciency, emissions, engine noise etc, but its very possible.

Oh, Really? Give us an example then!

By replacing the standard panel filter in a 03-04 WRX to a K&N you get an instant couple of KW. It doesn't come much easier then that. Or CAI in a commodore is much more simple and actually does yeild gains.

I have an RPW K and N pod filter with the rear half of the airbox removed. So the stock CAI and front half of the airbox are still there.

I tell you what, I noticed no difference in the way it drove power-wise. Apart from a flat spot around 4500rpm on a 40 degree day. Apart from that, it still seemed to have the same amount of power. The sound however. The sound is spectacular!

Such a nice rumble to the induction noise!

I have an RPW K and N pod filter with the rear half of the airbox removed. So the stock CAI and front half of the airbox are still there.

I tell you what, I noticed no difference in the way it drove power-wise. Apart from a flat spot around 4500rpm on a 40 degree day. Apart from that, it still seemed to have the same amount of power. The sound however. The sound is spectacular!

Such a nice rumble to the induction noise!

Thanks for sharing, yeh the induction noise would be nice, can i ask how much it set you back?

By replacing the standard panel filter in a 03-04 WRX to a K&N you get an instant couple of KW. It doesn't come much easier then that. Or CAI in a commodore is much more simple and actually does yeild gains.

In the case of the Commodore, when you start with a car that is as unrefined as a lump of coal, the smallest mods will make the biggest difference.

General rule of thumb: "Speed isn't cheap. How fast do you want to go?"

In the case of the Commodore, when you start with a car that is as unrefined as a lump of coal, the smallest mods will make the biggest difference.

General rule of thumb: "Speed isn't cheap. How fast do you want to go?"

haha very true.

Thanks for sharing, yeh the induction noise would be nice, can i ask how much it set you back?

I got mine brand new second hand off a mate, he never used it. 50 bucks it cost me. Couldn't refuse. They are about 130 bucks brand new on the RPW website.

But dude, I would pay 130 for it. The induction noise is so worth it.

Thanks for sharing, yeh the induction noise would be nice, can i ask how much it set you back?

if you want a mean induction noise for free why don't you just take the snorkel off the front of the air box, sounds meatie azz and in my opinion sounds way better than a pod..

The induction noise from having that CAI type setup is insane. Have a listen to HRD2GTs car for an example.

I had the exact same setup on my old motor and while the noise was great, given what happened to HRD2GTs first motor, I'm reluctant to put it back on for those reasons.

By replacing the standard panel filter in a 03-04 WRX to a K&N you get an instant couple of KW. It doesn't come much easier then that. Or CAI in a commodore is much more simple and actually does yeild gains.

That may be because a commo is cheap crap and a wrx has a crap filter, SKR has proven on many occasions that the stock CLEAN paper filter is actually excellent in so far as power goes, perhaps yet again Mits did something right here when they designed the air intake, would not be surprising as they got a lot right with the Magna, except the Marketing I guess lol


if you want a mean induction noise for free why don't you just take the snorkel off the front of the air box, sounds meatie azz and in my opinion sounds way better than a pod..

And you too can suck lung fulls of hot air into your airbox and make the issue even worse, may as well as put on a heap of Barry's fuel rail heaters and then put on the manifold coolers so then the rail gets heated by the cooled manif.......damn, I am now confused, perhaps the hot fuel heats the manifold, no that wont work either, Oh I get it, the earthing kit, why did Mits not use that.....thats right, because they knew what they were doing there as well just like the intake system.....something in that for all of us isnt there?

I got mine brand new second hand off a mate, he never used it. 50 bucks it cost me. Couldn't refuse. They are about 130 bucks brand new on the RPW website.

But dude, I would pay 130 for it. The induction noise is so worth it.

Im not liking the design, i still feel it will drag in hot air.

For the record the RPW CAIs cost $340 new excluding the cost of the pod which adds another $136 to that cost.

For the record the RPW CAIs cost $340 new excluding the cost of the pod which adds another $136 to that cost.

Thats for CAI, he was just talking about sitting the $136 pod into half of the existing box. I think :/

For the record the RPW CAIs cost $340 new excluding the cost of the pod which adds another $136 to that cost.

And where does this piece of expensive automotive magic draw its air from? (Haven't seen one, I'm wondering if its a good design or just voodoo magic.)

And where does this piece of expensive automotive magic draw its air from? (Haven't seen one, I'm wondering if its a good design or just voodoo magic.)

Think it goes down to near the back of the Foglight? correct me if im wrong but i also thought these had near to no benefit as the long pipe created air turbulence and screwed the MAF readings.

And where does this piece of expensive automotive magic draw its air from? (Haven't seen one, I'm wondering if its a good design or just voodoo magic.)

Its RPW. No proof necessary. Its based on the power of hopes and dreams.

It is good for making a shitload of induction noise but sweet FA difference to power output.

Yeah, mine is pretty much sitting in free air, with the front half of the airbox/stock OTRCAI in place. I will get around to making a heatshield for it.

It doesn't seem to affect my power output or fuel economy, so why change it? (That said, I could be loosing upwards of 10kws on a really hot day, but who's counting ;))

Yeah, mine is pretty much sitting in free air, with the front half of the airbox/stock OTRCAI in place. I will get around to making a heatshield for it.

It doesn't seem to affect my power output or fuel economy, so why change it? (That said, I could be loosing upwards of 10kws on a really hot day, but who's counting ;))

Haha 10kw holy jesus. Stock system for the win.

I say that without any education in power estimation or knowledge of thermodynamics.

But, I imagine it could be as high as that, given that I have a dark coloured car in a climate that easily reaches 40 degrees.

Its RPW. No proof necessary. Its based on the power of hopes and dreams.

It is good for making a shitload of induction noise but sweet FA difference to power output.

Voodoo magic at work there. lol


Think it goes down to near the back of the Foglight? correct me if im wrong but i also thought these had near to no benefit as the long pipe created air turbulence and screwed the MAF readings.

Leading edge of the bonnet or intake near fog light. Not much difference. Still the same temperature air on a 50 degree day. lol

Actually, air temperature makes a big difference to power output. I drove up a steep hill on a cold winter's night in the wife's Lancer easily in 5th, the same hill on a 40 degree day was a struggle and the car needed 4th gear. But unless you can get 5 degree temp air from somewhere on a 40 degree day to feed into the intake we just have to put up with it.

Opinions as to whether a K&N panel filter will bring gains if car is tuned for the panel? or even then will the stock panel do more then enough?

Opinions as to whether a K&N panel filter will bring gains if car is tuned for the panel? or even then will the stock panel do more then enough?

No difference at all. As stated by Madmagna in an earlier post, SKR dyno testing showed a clean, stock panel filter more than up for the job.

To quote Autospeed - Debunking Automotive Myths (http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_111396/article.html)

Changing the Air Filter Improves Performance
This myth has been fuelled by heavy advertising over a long time. ‘Release that power! Get rid of that restrictive factory air filter! 10 kilowatts there for the taking!’ And so on.

The trouble is, unless the car is very heavily modified – eg 50 per cent more than standard power – then the air filter provides very little restriction to the intake.

In fact, if you measure the full-throttle pressure drops (ie restrictions) through the intake system of a car, you’ll find that the air filter usually makes up only about 10 per cent of the total restriction. That is, 90 per cent of the restriction of the intake is NOT the air filter!

The other thing about changing the factory filter to something non-standard is that you embrace the very real possibility that the filtration (ie the catching of rocks) will be poor. You can be pretty well certain that the factory element will actually work well as a filter!

Don’t waste your time changing the factory filter in a near standard car. Instead, improve the flow into, and out of, the airbox.

Note: good quality factory replacement filters (eg from companies like Ryco) are fine: they’re made to OE standards.

Sweet as, i guess all i need is extractors and my engine will have a good flow through its beastly digestive system.

i wrapped from my snorkel up to my afm in garage door insulation.... so far i've noticed (using a thermometer) that at idle she picks up heat from the road and radiator but when i take off the intake temp will drop to ambient temp at a rate of about 4 degree's per minute.... but im still testing

When it comes to flow in and out of an engine, extrators is only part of the answer a better flowing head would bring extra gains. So if you went old schooled and shave your engine head, ported the head and got a better throttle body plus extrators. Then a engine tune your going get better flow of air and gases out of your engine :) But it comes down to how much money you going to spend/ how far do you go :badgrin: Personal it up to you and what you want to drive :happy:

That may be because a commo is cheap crap and a wrx has a crap filter, SKR has proven on many occasions that the stock CLEAN paper filter is actually excellent in so far as power goes, perhaps yet again Mits did something right here when they designed the air intake, would not be surprising as they got a lot right with the Magna, except the Marketing I guess lol





And you too can suck lung fulls of hot air into your airbox and make the issue even worse, may as well as put on a heap of Barry's fuel rail heaters and then put on the manifold coolers so then the rail gets heated by the cooled manif.......damn, I am now confused, perhaps the hot fuel heats the manifold, no that wont work either, Oh I get it, the earthing kit, why did Mits not use that.....thats right, because they knew what they were doing there as well just like the intake system.....something in that for all of us isnt there?

its obvious that you are going to suck hot air into the motor, the bloke liked the idea of induction noise and rather than waste money on a rpw cai kit which has no proof of benefit and is begging for the motor to get hydrolocked , save your cash and have a stab at an easier option which is on par with a pod. are you on one of your rants again?

When it comes to flow in and out of an engine, extrators is only part of the answer a better flowing head would bring extra gains. So if you went old schooled and shave your engine head, ported the head and got a better throttle body plus extrators. Then a engine tune your going get better flow of air and gases out of your engine :) But it comes down to how much money you going to spend/ how far do you go :badgrin: Personal it up to you and what you want to drive :happy:

That shit is expensive, Only thing i can do is wider TB but that won't do anything for power so would only have as a means of throttle response.

Meh it only money lol :) Do what I did when I was young put some money into another bank account and save your pennys towards rebuilding the motor to perfomance in mind :) Do it all at once, beats trying to do it at stages :)

Meh it only money lol :) Do what I did when I was young put some money into another bank account and save your pennys towards rebuilding the motor to perfomance in mind :) Do it all at once, beats trying to do it at stages :)

I enjoy the occasional modification, im not gonna go crazy with power i just like spending my money every now and again on whatever i feel suitable haha, Its a bad habit but its my life for now.

re: Hot air intake - I see some rants here and I don't think it's appropriate or at least it's worded inappropriately.

FACT: I ran my car at WSID multiple times with and without the snorkel on the front of the air box. It made NO measurable difference to my 1/4 mile time. This was on a 26C evening and there would definitely have been heat soak in the engine bay affecting intake temperatures. There might be a difference on a cold night, I'll have to retest one day in winter.


IMO: The autospeed articles on subject of air filters are well written and appear to provide a scientifically arrived conclusion that should be considered. (ie: essentially they don't make more power)

I've also seen test results in FF&R (and other sources) that showed how well (or poorly) "performance pod filters" actually filtered dirt. Most of them performed badly compared to the standard air filter. From memory, I think K&N oiled filters and UniFilters worked well.

IMO, unless you replace the air box entirely with a pod filter and smooth (not ribbed) air piping, then the only gains will be minimal. A lot of the autospeed articles about air intake restrictions contributed to this conclusion.

I've left my intake snorkel off because the slight induction noise and increased exhaust noise bring audio pleasure to me.

I used to have a "Ram Pod" intake on a previous car and the induction noise from that one mod was worth as much as a supercharger!

its obvious that you are going to suck hot air into the motor, the bloke liked the idea of induction noise and rather than waste money on a rpw cai kit which has no proof of benefit and is begging for the motor to get hydrolocked , save your cash and have a stab at an easier option which is on par with a pod. are you on one of your rants again?

No I am not on one of my "rants" again but I can if you really ask me nicely, beleive me sunshine, you will know if I am on one of my "rants" again as I get sick and tired of people on here who seem to think that they can out engineer a system by taking off a part that was developed for a reason. How do you think that Jason'VRX got all of his power, that is right, with a pretty much stock intake system,,,,something in that for all of us

Now if you are after noise go for it, personally I think it is foolish but then again some like that induction noise. Personally I like to keep my engine bay looking stock and given that the Magna intake system has been proven to be more than adeguate for any NA engine, why change what is broken, why not spend on some real mods that work.

The CAI, well most know what I think of them, I know they sound awesome but from a practicle point of view, they are crap, as at least 2 people on these forums have found out and one of these same people have also posted in here as well. The EZBoy box, like on TZA's car (I think) looks good, gives you the sound and the cold air, but then agian a lot of people on these forums these days think you can gain 100kw for $10, just because you get a cheap car does not mean you will get cheap HP, there is no such thing as cheap HP, look at the ford and holden boys, they spend 14 grand and tell eachother how much of a bargain they got, some here cry when they realise that they have to maintain a car which will then take funds away from the doof doof budget

with the ezy boy pod box and ralliart extractors i gained 10hp(ill have to find the dyno sheet). i run a K&N pod on mine cause of the SC, can't use a standard intake. I like the idea of the panel filer because you can clean it , instead of replacing it. butter if you live in a dusty region :)

OP - don't bother with intake, cams ftw

OR

Sell your VRX and buy a Ralliart.. problem solved.

Im with Mal. Everything that is in the car is there for a reason. I went through this exact same things when i owned my EB Falcon, new guys on Fordmods assumed you could just whack a pod in a half cut up box problem solved. On the other hand though there were some relatively smart people who had the same idea as me and that is that the manufacturer would have worked something out that would give their car maximum power, to have an edge on the competition.

interesting thread, sounds to me like the OP doesn't think he can out engineer MMAL, but with cars being built to be fuel efficient, quite, ect. ect ect........ sounds like the OP just wants to know if there's any options to mod the intake for better proformance, which he has prob read now there isnt

so if this makes you "sick and tired" then dont read it sunshine

The only real filter "upgrades" he could really do without sacrificing performance would be a K&N i have heard people that havent gained power have gained a little bit of throttle response (how i dont know) or a smoother idle.

In summary, if he wants a better filter get a K&N otherwise he will have to spend a little bit of money and get the EZBOY box that Mal was talking about but this wont come at a price tag of $70. Even then who knows what the "peformance" increase will be.

interesting thread, sounds to me like the OP doesn't think he can out engineer MMAL, but with cars being built to be fuel efficient, quite, ect. ect ect........ sounds like the OP just wants to know if there's any options to mod the intake for better proformance, which he has prob read now there isnt

so if this makes you "sick and tired" then dont read it sunshine

It is not the OP that I was replying to for starters, and if you troll some of the rubbish that is asked over and over and over again, you will then see where I am coming from

Things like "dont use your engine for braking as it will wear it out", "Panel filters will give you 7kw increase", "what exhause do I use" all of these and many more have been done to death.

I do read and respond to these as being one of the most experienced people on these forums with Magna's (with a few others here who do not post much no doubt because of these stupid arguements all the time) I do actually care of the majority of members who are after proper information etc about their cars and what they can really do to get best bang for buck without destroying their car or going backwards in so far as performance etc goes.

So yes I will continue to read these, yes I will continue to respond and if people can not handle this, then tuff shit as this will not change

I think my track record with both my own car as well as 100's of others on this forum speaks louder than any words

i understand 100% where your comming from madmagna but threads like this one will allways pop up due to so many ppl not knowing things as simple as how to change engine oil lol.

by the way i wasnt having a go at you

back on topic, i think its safe to say dont waist your time or money on filters, pods ect. ect....... i have used both and i have not gained anythink but a smaller bank account number. The very small gains to be had if any from fitting a k&n or whatever brand you want is so small you wouldnt notice it!

spend your time and money elsewhere, as madmagna said, jasonsvrx is proof. i have been in his car and it was fairly qiuck and it uses stock intake.

No I am not on one of my "rants" again but I can if you really ask me nicely, beleive me sunshine, you will know if I am on one of my "rants" again as I get sick and tired of people on here who seem to think that they can out engineer a system by taking off a part that was developed for a reason. How do you think that Jason'VRX got all of his power, that is right, with a pretty much stock intake system,,,,something in that for all of us

Now if you are after noise go for it, personally I think it is foolish but then again some like that induction noise. Personally I like to keep my engine bay looking stock and given that the Magna intake system has been proven to be more than adeguate for any NA engine, why change what is broken, why not spend on some real mods that work.

The CAI, well most know what I think of them, I know they sound awesome but from a practicle point of view, they are crap, as at least 2 people on these forums have found out and one of these same people have also posted in here as well. The EZBoy box, like on TZA's car (I think) looks good, gives you the sound and the cold air, but then agian a lot of people on these forums these days think you can gain 100kw for $10, just because you get a cheap car does not mean you will get cheap HP, there is no such thing as cheap HP, look at the ford and holden boys, they spend 14 grand and tell eachother how much of a bargain they got, some here cry when they realise that they have to maintain a car which will then take funds away from the doof doof budget

You've hit the nail on the head and i totally agree with you, my engine is stock and i wouldn't have it any other way, but for a sweet induction noise what i mentioned earlier i highly recommend and its free.
personally i would rather use my money on proper maintenance and the proof is in the pudding!

Ever wondered why induction noise is absent on most standard cars? lol

Ever wonder why exhaust noise is all but absent on most standard cars?

A. Because not everyone wants to buy a noisy car, espically those with a family.

Nope, wrong answer. The answer is a bit more technical than that. ADR rules about noise pollution have a lot to do with it though, exhaust wise. Intake not so much.

so they retain proper backpressure with the correct diameter pipe?

so they retain proper backpressure with the correct diameter pipe?

That's for exhausts. A well designed extractor system would work best with minimal back pressure anyway. I was thinking of induction noise. The noise comes from standing waves in the air tract, gives a low frequency sound, but can affect the overall airflow and affect the MAF sensor. So manufacturers fine tune the shape and length of the induction system, add resonators to dampen standing waves, to smooth out the air flow throughout the rev range. A side effect is that its quiet. When someone modifies the induction and admires the roar, I shake my head - all that work by the original engineers undone because someone equates noise with speed! lol

That's for exhausts. A well designed extractor system would work best with minimal back pressure anyway. I was thinking of induction noise. The noise comes from standing waves in the air tract, gives a low frequency sound, but can affect the overall airflow and affect the MAF sensor. So manufacturers fine tune the shape and length of the induction system, add resonators to dampen standing waves, to smooth out the air flow throughout the rev range. A side effect is that its quiet. When someone modifies the induction and admires the roar, I shake my head - all that work by the original engineers undone because someone equates noise with speed! lol

i did not know that , best info i've read all day...

When someone modifies the induction and admires the roar, I shake my head - all that work by the original engineers undone because someone equates noise with speed! lol

Thats the bottom line for me.

Thats the bottom line for me.

If you love induction roar, buy an old commodore V8 with carburettor and run it without the air cleaner. You will wet your pants! lol

If you love induction roar, buy an old commodore V8 with carburettor and run it without the air cleaner. You will wet your pants! lol

Takes me back a few years!

My old man had a 1972 HQ Holden 308 ute with extractors. Bought it new and apparently it was the first HQ 308 ute with extractors and they had to be measured & fabricated from scratch, and as a result he got them for nix. Or so he claimed but he always was a bit of a BS artist.

Just for laughs he ran it for a few days without the air cleaner, and jeez did it sound horn. But who knows how many bugs and other bits of crud it swallowed.

who knows how many bugs and other bits of crud it swallowed.

Meh. Those engines wore out real quick, a few bugs would not have mattered! lol

So manufacturers fine tune the shape and length of the induction system, add resonators to dampen standing waves, to smooth out the air flow throughout the rev range. A side effect is that its quiet.

and the engineers at MMAL deleted 2 of the magna's resonators.... good ol aussie thinking

I'm not quite down with the latest explanation of intake tuning.

I think that automotive engineers put a lot more about having consistent air flow so that emissions are handled correctly across the rev range AND to keep it quiet instead of producing power.

IMO, freeing up the air intake with a simple system (pod and straight pipe) may reduce power at a certain RPM and even make the car idle a bit odd, but it will also increase power at other point(s) in the rev range.
Most factory air intakes do have restrictions and removing them will give an increase in average power, but it might not make an engine "better" in all senses of the word. And due to tuning getting it wrong might maybe slightly reduce power.

And of course, although extractors and exhaust could readily give a 10% power improvement, air intakes alone rarely give 2% improvement (just as a rule of thumb, not scientifically backed by me)

BUT to me, the intake sound is worth it, even if there's a 2% loss in power.
I still miss my old Ram Pod and wish it was legal now days.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b129/Ogier/Applause/appengine.jpg
(air goes around headlight, into pod filter, then almost straight path to the throttle body.

Oggy is spot on.

The reason I run a K and N filter is for the induction noise increase. I never bought it for the increase or decrease in power. Personally I couldn't give a stuff if I lost 3 kilowatts by running no resonators and just a pod.

Or CAI in a commodore is much more simple and actually does yeild gains.

Yes, but then you have the problem of having a car that is a complete POS and a bogan-mobile.

I have a feeling i read an article about TJ magnas being tested in desert heat over in saudi arabia or something? To test how efficient their systems were and if they overheat easily, the result was apparently outstanding and i could see this partly due to the intake of the engine.