So anyway, took my car back to the mechanic that did my timing belt like 15000k's ago as there was a bearing noise coming from under the timing cover (Got told by 2 separate mechanics that its was probably the idle pulley bearing). The guy that did the timing belt service said that it was bullshit and the idle pulleys were fine (Over the phone, hadnt seen/ heard it yet), but told me to take it back so they could have a look. So I dropped it off today. This was the second time I had dropped it off, the first time was to get a rocker cover oil leak fixed (seals were replaced at the same time as the timing belt service but then started leaking). He told me he would charge for labour if it was not the idler pulley (Which was fair enough). I had a feeling he was gonna make something up to cover his mistake and make me pay.

So I get a call today, he rekons it is the water pump that is making the noise and so I need to get it replaced. He says I either pay for the time it took to take everything apart to find the noise, or that I get the water pump replaced today as the engine is already apart. So I say ok to the pump as I didnt really have much choice.
We ring up this afternoon to see if the car is done, they say yes and the bill is $550.

This noise only started around 5-10,000k's after my timing belt was replaced so I was sure it was the idler pulley. How can I be sure it was the idler pulley and the guy isnt just making the water pump up so he doesnt have to cover the cost of fixing his mistake?



On a separate note, I clipped a curb yesterday and now have an egg in one of my front 19's. Also had my driveshaft replaced a few weeks ago and a service which cost me $500. So Pretty much all the money I have earnt on my uni break so far has been spent fixing the car. I can also hear a whining noise from my right hand rear tyre when travelling above 80km/hr. If my wheel bearing are gone in that I am seriously gonna kill something. Really pissed off atm..

What mistake did he make regarding the idler pulley? (and which one? There are 4 of them on the engine). If everything was ok after the belt change, you can't blame him, he doesn't have a crystal ball that can predict future failures. As for other mechanics unless they have x-ray vision, they are just guessing. Ask your mechanic to show you the failed water pump and check it yourself, he will probably have to fish it out of the rubbish bin where all dead bits go. lol

As to the recurring string of expensive work needed on your car, most cars as they age go through a whole series of problems, some problems occur at the same time as, or soon after others. Magnas seem to do this at about 200,000 km, its not unusual. Most people suggest replacing the water pump, idlers and the hydraulic tensioner as well as the belt at 200,000 km to avoid problems like this. A lot of Magnas are cheap on the used car market at 200,000 km because of the expense of doing all this. My TJ just had its first belt change, and everything checked out fine, but I imagine it won't be like that at 200,000 km, so I'm planning to change everything at that time.

I'm a great advocate for DIY. It saves money better used for other things, and you learn a lot. Do I need to say more?

I'm pretty sure killing your water pump is a common symptom of over tightening the timing belt and many seem to advocate replacing it anyway. $550 to replace the water pump is probably fair however likely a symptom of a bad timing belt job but hard to prove ultimately. Plus could have easily been on the way out anyway, I think MadMagna recommends replacing them anyway for example since for the cost of the pump itself in the light of a $4-600 timing belt job, may as well do it then and save re-doing it.

I can recommend Aaron from Vehicle Fleet Services (http://vehiclefleetservices.com.au/) he's in jandakot so a bit out of the way for most but he's awesome, solves all problems in my experience very quickly and economically, he's not "cheap" but charges a fair price and will always be honest about what really needs doing what, doesn't etc and seems to always solve problems without the "trial and error" approach I have experienced with other mechanics which cost you dearly and pointlessly.

I'm pretty sure killing your water pump is a common symptom of over tightening the timing belt and many seem to advocate replacing it anyway. $550 to replace the water pump is probably fair however likely a symptom of a bad timing belt job but hard to prove ultimately.

More likely the water pump is noisy already, but the sloppy original belt goes easy on it. A correctly tensioned belt then shows the problem up. If you look at the path the belt takes, there is a lot of stress on the pump bearings.
Anyway, its impossible to prove it was overtightened, unless you watch the install and know if he is doing it right or not, not taking silly shortcuts, using the right tools etc. But if you knew that you could do it yourself, couldn't you? lol

Pretty hard to "accidentally" over tighten the cam belt on a third gen install anyway. More likely to end up loose if not done correctly.

Fair point

Fair point

I did a belt change on my TJ recently, my first time on a third gen, so I was careful to follow the instructions in the manual. Can't see where you could go wrong, unless you use the wrong tools, skip the correct setup process, or forget to use a torque wrench. Put it all back together, fired it up, idled it a bit, then ran it at 3,000 rpm in neutral (higher than it will go in normal use) for a few minutes and all was sweet. It's hard to pat yourself on the back, but I managed it. lol

I got a new pair of idlers with the belt, but the ones on the car checked ok, as did the water pump and crank/cam seals, so i left everything as it was. If anything gets noisy before 200,000 km its a good excuse to pull it all apart and see how things are going in there, pretty easy once you have done the process for the first time. lol As my own mechanic my time and labour are free. lol

I don't think you can place any blame on the original mechanic as the noise didn't happen till 5-10,000km after the timing belt replacement and as MadMax says, they don't have Xray vision. At the time, if the mechanic had suggested replacing the idler pulley and water pump "just in case" and at an extra cost of $300 you may have baulked at that - you do have to place a certain amount of trust in your mechanic. In 6 months time you'll laugh about it.

OP, sorry to hear about the mess you're going through. Luckily, I have a trustworthy mechanic - only problem is I can't afford to use him so I do everything myself. :)

I did the timing belt, oil seals, water pump, hydraulic tensioner, idler and tensioner about a year ago myself on my TE. As far as I remember, when doing the timing belt it is not only good practice, but also highly recommended to change the tensioner/idler. Especially since they are relatively cheap and the cost of labor to do something a second time far exceeds the cost of those components. Also - they spin many, many times since they are so small - it's not right to expect something like that to last almost 200000Km.

So, when only the belt is due - you replace the tensioner/idler along with it and when the new belt is due, you replace the whole lot.
Also - always ask for the old parts, and don't be tempted to use cheap water pumps - Coretech is a good brand if you don't want to go genuine.

Your mechanic definitely should have made it clear that it's best for the tensioner/idler to be replaced along with the belt, but since people often go for the cheapest option, some mechanics simply need to go along with what their customers want (cheap servicing) and hope for the best - otherwise they'll lose customers. So, at least he should have given you the option, but you can't really blame him (too much) considering the fact that if he doesn't do a "quick and dirty" belt swap, some other mechanic will. Therefore, unfortunately, it's up to the customer in many cases to educated themselves about what is required, bite the bullet and shell out the money for a proper job.

Oh, and not replacing the water pump at the second belt change is always asking for trouble!

Considering you can get the full kit for $161.79 + $86.85 postage at the moment from rockauto.com delivered to your front door you might as well do the whole lot at 200,000 km. Then a belt change only at 300,000 km and run the car until it pukes at 400,000 km. lol

As far as I remember, when doing the timing belt it is not only good practice, but also highly recommended to change the tensioner/idler. Especially since they are relatively cheap and the cost of labor to do something a second time far exceeds the cost of those components. Also - they spin many, many times since they are so small - it's not right to expect something like that to last almost 200000Km

That's exactly as I recall it. I wouldn't be going back to that mechanic man...

Considering you can get the full kit for $161.79 + $86.85 postage at the moment from rockauto.com delivered to your front door you might as well do the whole lot at 200,000 km. Then a belt change only at 300,000 km and run the car until it pukes at 400,000 km. lol

Given that I can supply a superior quality item for less than that with a lot less postage and add to that you get to keep some money in Aus lol

Only use Genuine Hydrolic tensioners, they are the only ones I use and some parts shops have stopped selling the aftermarket ones due to quick failuers

now back to the topic

Why in hell did he do a belt and not do the pulleys anyway, the price of the kit vs a belt on its own is nominal, given that there is about 60 bucks difference this mechanic clearly does not take much pride, unless of course he did advise to do the ilder pulleys and you did not want them done

For someone who has not done this before and has not got access to these forums where many have, it is easy to screw up, I see this happpen often. I wold say could be either or, you will soon see when you have the old water pump in your hand and you see for yourself the pump bearing has crapped out

What is the mileage on the motor for starters, I rarely replace them at 100k but always at 200k, if at the 100k there is ANY movement in the pulley or noise, it gets replaced.

Personally I can not comment on if the issue is worshop issue or not, you have not really got much info you can provide but if there have already been other issues, I would be hesitant

With the job, is a little on the high side however depending on what you are being charged for the pump would come in about what some workshops would charge I guess.