A week ago I got four brand new tyres fitted which were the same brand and type as what i previously had.

Bob Jane did the job, which I am forced to use because of my novated lease, and did a front and rear wheel alignment.

Driving the car felt different immediately, which I put down to the usual new tyre/more tread> sponginess>less directional feel. But after the tyres have scrubbed a bit, it doesn't feel right. Less stability in a straight line and I don't have the same confidence in cornering.

So, my previous toe settings were;

Front:
+0.9

Rear:
+1.6

The new settings are:
Front:
+1

Rear:
+3

Is there too much toe out on the rear?

which are scrubbed front or rear?

It looks like they moved the rears a lot.

i acn tell you the first time you do that rear adjustment it is bloody tight...so can't see how it could ever go out?

No scrubbing on any tires, including the rears. I replaced them because I got a non-repairable puncture on a rear and the others were 80% worn.

When I lowered it, the camber was -2.8 on the rear. From one of the other threads, this can be adjusted by the bolt on the lower rear control arm?

What are those readings for? Total toe, front & rear?

If so, & the car doesn't feel/ drive the same as before, you'll need to see what each side is actually doing? 3mm toe out, in total, is a fair bit, but you shouldn't notice it until cornering - during which the car should feel like it's going to oversteer.

Can I ask why the front isn't as close to zero as possible? Also, you don't mention any camber?

Edit: I see your camber settings now. :)

Richard, just looked up the factory manual & it states - Front 0 +or- 3mm & Rear 3 +or- 3mm.

Ah thanks. In that case, within specs.

Ah thanks. In that case, within specs.


rears are just in spec....why at one end of maximum....?

why did they move the rears at all?

Richard, just looked up the factory manual & it states - Front 0 +or- 3mm & Rear 3 +or- 3mm.

That's only stating the acceptable range for the toe settings, (also possibly the maximum adjustability of the toe settings?), not the actual optimal settings for the car.

I would've thought that a perfect alignment would be as close to zero as possible? Unless you have a specific way that you want the car to handle, neither the front nor rear should be at either end of the maximum range of adjustability.

:hmm:

OK, so a lazy job on the alignment, then.

Might take it back and say I'm not happy.

Yep a bit ordinary. I reckon 0 on the front & as close to zero on the rear as they can get maybe 1 max.

I've not had much joy at my local BJ's. I've had it aligned 3 times there and its felt different each time, last time was bad, tracks badly in ruts etc and the inside of the rears have feathered ( which maybe my fault as i didn't rotate for a while) Not going there ever again! Actually have just dug out my last receipt and its telling me my fronts have +1.0 total toe and+2.8 on the rear.This is close to yours Knotched, so if what mine feels like is anything to go by, your car must feel like shit too! I agree with Foozr,I think if I /we had a zero or a slight minus on the front and a slight reduction in rear also it wouldn't "tram track" nearly as bad. Whats factory specs for camber, caster?

Thanks for that.

There is another aligner I used to go to, so might try there and tell him the problem.

Front Camber 0 degrees +or- 30' Castor 3 degrees +or- 30'
Rear Camber -50' +or- 30'

I have -1 degree camber all round & seems to work well with the coilovers.

The thing is Richard they are adjusting for a stock 4wd height 380 not a lowered sporty type handling 380. Needs some custom angles I reckon.

From my experience with Kings lows on the rears and 245/30 20 tyres (and 245/35 19 previously), the rear camber can very easily go out to neg 4 degrees or more.
My last wheel alignment about five months ago was also at BJT ('free' 5,000 service), and the mech explained & showed how he couldn't 'wind back' the rear camber to the 1 degree neg I wanted and neg 1.5 degrees was as far as he could adjust it without screwing up the toe in / toe out.
So it seems that with lowered rear springs and larger tyres on a 380 we have no choice but to live with more neg camber than we would like.

When to my old aligner, who does a variety of race cars and they found -

1. rear left wheel balance 77g out. :disgusted
2. Camber bolts loose :chainsaw:

Settings on rear toe left by BJ -

Left +1.9mm
Right -2.2mm (!!!) :eek2:

No wonder it was a dog in the corners :wtf:

New settings -

Front toe in:

Left + 0.5
Right + 0.5

Rear toe in:

Left + 0.2
Right + 0.3

Camber on rear:
Initial Left: -2 deg 29' Final: - 1 deg 53'
Initial right: - 2 deg 56' Final: - 1 deg 49'

*NOTE - these settings are on King Super Low springs front and rear.

With these settings the handling now feels like a sharp knife; i.e. the car is completely predictable and I can now corner past the limit with confidence. Before, I could feel the rear wanting to go straight into oversteer and the corner speed was down at least 10kph with a a loss of grip.
I can be precise with this because I have two corners, one left and one right that are both 270deg that I can enter at any speed so I know my entry speed and midcorner speeds precisely, when transition to oversteer occurs and when I can feed in power to balance it.

The 380 is very sensitive to wheel balance - if you are a sensitive driver you can feel if the balance is out with a greater than 10g error.

Obviously rear toe and camber make a big difference to handling; so if you are going to do any serious cornering make sure it is set correctly.

Are the tyre pressures the same in these tyres as what you usually run them at?

Yes, 40 PSI

77gm is a massive amount for a wheel to be out!! 10gm would be noticeable as you say, but 77gm must've felt like a buckled wheel?!

Also, those alignment specs were terrible - although sometimes it's not always the aligner's fault. Sometimes the equipment hasn't been calibrated in a while, or even dropped, so that the aligner might have done an amazing job according to the equipment but you end up with a car that's way out of alignment.

Glad you got it sorted though! :)