hey guys dont wana get flamed here just wondering i just put the harmonic balancer back on and it is wobbily,tightened it up took it for a drive came back and when i was pulling in the driveway it started cutting out and playing up backfiring and stuff the harmonic balancer came loose,talked to a couple of people they said i needed locktight on it and i think i might have skiped a tooth on the timing because i dont think the harmonic balancer wud make it backfire through the intake,any suggestions would help. thanks

Did you take it right off? Did you relocate it correctly on the scroll pin? If you are talking about the 3rd gen, the harmonic balance bolt holds on not just the harmonic balancer, but also clamps the cam belt cog and disc for the ignition timing. You may have to pull it all apart down there to see what has come adrift. And check the cam belt setup too.

Loctite is not needed if the bolt is done up correctly.

HINT: Never start a 3rd gen if the harmonic balancer is off, misaligned or not tightened correctly. (Too late, she cried!)

yeah i took it right off,yes relocated everything correctly and it is a 3rd gen te magna ok ill have a look at it all cheers

Hint, ignore above.....

For starters to the OP, you will not jump a tooth on the timing belt if the balancer is off, you shoudl not start it with it off but if has not been located correctly and comes loose, not the end of the world at all, just re locate it and tighten it. The timing belt crank pully will not go anywhere in a few metres of being driven at all as the timing belt will also make it stay put.

It "may" have touched the CAS however again I woudl say not likely as again it would be rare for the lower pulley to move especially that far and if it was damaged the chances are the car simply would not run full stop

Now, can yu please let us know a little more as to why you removed the pulley, this may lead to a more accuate reason as to why the car is not running right

Also, last point, never use locktite on a Magna pulley bolt, it is simply not needed and can give you issues later down the track if some does get out and locks the bottom timing belt pulley in place

As madmax said make sure the camshafts to crankshaft timing alignment is all good before going for another drive. Backfiring out the inlet manifold may be the result of the cam belt slipping a few teeth.

Cheers

yeah i took it off because it was making a weird sound in the driveway i looked at the harmonic balancer when i pulled over and it was moving side to side,i took the wheel off and it was finger tight!?!? but when i put it on previously i used a rattle gun so i dont know what went on...everyones saying different things,also dont go off at me for this,im just young and dumb but my friend also cut the rear muffler off to let it breathe better and sound a bit better that same day.was thinking about welding it back on see if that helps,cuz i shouldnt loose back pressure from the rear because i still have a cat ,2 mufflers and a resignator.

also checked the timing,it is all where it should be:)

cheers i just put the harmonic balancer on,now its worse:/ geez i dont know what i could be,might be fuel filter or somthin weird....

also checked the timing,it is all where it should be:)

How did you check the timing? line up TDC and take the cam covers off?

I don't think the muffler mod or fuel filter has anything to do with the current problem. I'm sure Madmagna will jump in and help here, he usually does.

yep everythings tdc:) so i really dont know,i just checked the oxygen sensor its not that,could it be the sensor that goes to the cat? i unplugged the battery to reset the ECU and no difference....it is wrattling my brain trying to figure out what it could be

Gosh, this has me stumped. It's not the muffler, or the fuel filter, or the oxygen sensor, and an ECU reset does nothing? Hope you can get to the bottom of this and fix it!

Have you checked the ignition timing?

is the ignition timing different from the actual timing?? and how do i check it

i checked all the fuses,i bet its only something tiny and its got me clueless lol im not gonna be able to sleep tonight just thinkin about what it could be,been working on it all day.. and i cant even get it to the shop to get them to plug a computer into it

Cam belt timing makes sure the valves open and close at the right time, ignition timing makes sure the plugs fire at the right time.

I have never done this to a third gen, so someone who has can chime in here. Any experts in the house?

Ok,
Just trying to get to the bottom of why it was removed the first time, you say was loose but you used a rattle gun, why was it removed the first time

Secondly, you keep refering to TDC, you ahve clearly checked the bottom pulley to the marks on the lower cover, have you taken BOTH of the top covers off and checked the marks on the cam gears to the notches in teh rocker covers? This may lead to something that can cause your issue

Ignotion timing CAN NOT be adjusted so dont even go there, if it is out then you have an issue with either the CAS or the Dist, if you suspect however that the timing belt pulley has moved, make sure that the throw plate on the back which the CAS reads from has not slipped, have heard of this happening as it is only really held in place by 2 minature roll pins and a small ring, it is really held on by the cranks when all is properly tightened up. If this has moved then your fuel and ig timing will be way off

Muffler will make SFA difference, either in performance or engine running, I often will drive a car with no rear muffler that is being wrecked and the muffler has been sold so forget about this area for now.

This miss, did it happen as soon as you started the car post re installing the balancer pulley or did it happen later on even if only a short time afterwards? All this information is standard info i would ask anyone when they have this issue

Personally, if I was looking at your car here, I would check the camshaft timing and if not that would go straight to Distributor as these are known especially in the older third gens to be letting go these days. I have the advantage of wrecking these cars so can get parts no issues and is often quicker to just change something like a dist than it is to bother testing it (and int he case of a dist, a bench test often returns a good result, give it some heat and load and it fails)

Just be careful not to get tunnel vision and look only in the one place, remember that something else may have failed and it just happens to be the same time

As for the balancer, i would say 99% that in the initial install that it was not properly located OR the rattle gun you have is dodgy

yeah mate checked all the timing the 2 top pulleys and yeah my rattle gun is good so i have no clue why it came off i will check what u told me to check and yeah have checked everything to the best of my knowledge cheers mad and this is the story i was driving and my pulley belts snaped and cut the cas in half then i changed the cas and belts car ran fine for 500km then harmonic balancer started wobbling so i got one from the wrekerz and then3 dayz later it came loose again and thats where i am at now exept this time bakfiring and spluttery wont rev ect it idles fine though

I would be looking as to why it came loose and be also checking that plate

Also, no offense but please try some grammer etc as it makes it damned hard to read your posts, have to read a few times to work out what you are trying to say :)

haha sorry mate that last post was on my new phone hard to get used too i was also a bit tipsy ill check it and let u know

ok the plate is fine, I talked to a mechanic and his guess without looking at it would be the Harmonic balancer.

no matter how much i tighten it,it still wobbles,but it is a good harmonic balancer nothing wrong with it,the mechanic said thats why he thinks it is acting the way it is because if it is out by 1mm on the harmonic balancer is will be out 5mm on the timing.

stupid question, but do you put the washer on the bolt for the balancer? big gold colored one...

ok the plate is fine, I talked to a mechanic and his guess without looking at it would be the Harmonic balancer.

no matter how much i tighten it,it still wobbles,but it is a good harmonic balancer nothing wrong with it,the mechanic said thats why he thinks it is acting the way it is because if it is out by 1mm on the harmonic balancer is will be out 5mm on the timing.

Mate,
YOur mechaninc is a clown if he thinks that the HB has anything to do with timing

You say it wobbles but is fine, well it is not fine if it wobbles, is mosly likely the rubber sleve has slipped, is a common issue with many cars.

This will however have no relation to your ignition tining, your mechanic is totally off the mark here. If the CAS pickup was ont eh balancer then fine, but it is not so is not the issue, you have a separate issue here

At the risk of sounding like a boring Wank3r, can I repeat part of post #2?


You may have to pull it all apart down there to see what has come adrift.

Long distance problem solving over the internet or by your mechanic just doesn't work.

he is just a mechanic in my town, and yes i have looked at everything half the engine is pretty much apart.im so confused,so the harmonic balancer isnt causing it,the timing isnt causing it, when i gently rev it will run fine,but whenever i rev more than a couple of mm it starts backfiring ect.

trying to get this solved without having to take it to a mechanic as i cant really afford it at the moment.

i think i know what it is...hopefully

i unplugged the sensor that goes to the catalyic converter and there is no difference to what it was doing before,so that might be the problem i dont know if that sensor would make it do all the things it is doing.

Oxy sensor will not make any difference to idle or to the car running as the ECu only looks at the oxy sensor at certain times, this will not be the issue

As I stated way back, start with the dist, your symptoms are classic of a dodgy ignition module


At the risk of sounding like a boring Wank3r, can I repeat part of post #2?



Long distance problem solving over the internet or by your mechanic just doesn't work.

max, dont fall off your chair and hurt yourself mate but I actually agree with you for a change lol

ok sorry to be a pain mad but could you tell me the process of elimination for this,im gonna sit down tomorrow and go through every possible thing. could you write me a list with the most likely things comming first,cheers

I have do not have the time to go into a full list here on a forum, I usually charge for this sort of thing when the car is in front of me, would take too much time to sit here and list every process to you here that may be the issue and then ahve to answer even more about what each area is I am talking about

Simple thing, replace the dist with a seconhand unit, that is what I would do first, then MAF, these are the 2 main areas that may cause a smooth idle and light throttle response but break down under load, after that you have the usual things, plugs, leads, cap, rotor, fuel pressure, filter, pump, flow etc etc, list goes on and on

I have do not have the time to go into a full list here on a forum, I usually charge for this sort of thing when the car is in front of me, would take too much time to sit here and list every process to you here that may be the issue and then ahve to answer even more about what each area is I am talking about

Simple thing, replace the dist with a seconhand unit, that is what I would do first, then MAF, these are the 2 main areas that may cause a smooth idle and light throttle response but break down under load, after that you have the usual things, plugs, leads, cap, rotor, fuel pressure, filter, pump, flow etc etc, list goes on and on

Funny how after being on this forums for 5+ years, before you became a sponsor you were only more then happy to list to people on here the processes they may need to tackle a problem.
How times have changed.

TUFFTR: In Mal's defense, he has tried hard to help jayy. It's obvious jayy is out of his depth, and really needs to take the car to a mechanic to get it sorted.

(An alternative theory is that jayy is just trolling. . . . . . lol)

Maybe, but sounds like he also DOES need a list to go through as he's obviously not incompetent to take mechanical things apart and back together, and just needs a guiding hand through it. If once he has tried everything he can then yes he should seek alternative help although the mechanic this guy went too sounds like the type of guy who would recommend headlight fluid at your next service.

Madmagna has listed the things needed to be done, but it's a shame the forum's superior's have an attitude like this where it's like "Well I could help but I usually make money off this so aahhhhhhh guess I'll give you something"

jayy might know how to pull things apart, but he doesn't seem to know what he is looking at. He hasn't mentioned what car he drives (strange) or offered any photos or videos. (even stranger)

Does he own a Magna at all? lol

Mal is in business to make a living. Simple.

yeah i do know how to pull them apart,but honestly guys theese days theres too much stuff run by sensors and computers,its too hard for me to figure it out,if it was carby i would have figured it out by now.and yes i did a 96 te magna 3 litre v6 5 speed.im sorry im not the best at cars,i know motorbikes but cars i know only some things,i can pull them apart ect.

Pretty sure Mal has been MORE than helpful here, it really is a process of elimination and yes he is in business. He has offered the basic walk-through of what needs to be done, that should be more than enough for anyone competent with a spanner. A manual and extra research also help.

Follow the list of things Mal has pointed out jayy and you will eventually get to the problem. Things like this are really annoying as they seem to happen when another problem has just been fixed :) Start with the small stuff and tell your mechanic he's a knob!

ok thanks guy this is wear i am at,i replaced the fuel filter today it ran a bit better but still the same problem,i double checked the timing thats good, took off the manifold and checked the spark plugs,who ever owned this car before me didnt put platinum plugs in the rear... every spark plug is carboned up heaps.

so so far ive checked,fuel filter,spark plugs,timing,sensors,i am going to buy new spark plugs and leads. and see if that makes a difference,if not will go to the dizzy and get my friend with his magna over to just bolt on and see if thats the prob,if not that ive got no choice to take it to the mechanic and get him to plug in the computer.

ok thanks guy this is wear i am at,i replaced the fuel filter today it ran a bit better but still the same problem,i double checked the timing thats good, took off the manifold and checked the spark plugs,who ever owned this car before me didnt put platinum plugs in the rear... every spark plug is carboned up heaps.

so so far ive checked,fuel filter,spark plugs,timing,sensors,i am going to buy new spark plugs and leads. and see if that makes a difference,if not will go to the dizzy and get my friend with his magna over to just bolt on and see if thats the prob,if not that ive got no choice to take it to the mechanic and get him to plug in the computer.

If you have someone prepared to let you borrow bits from their car to eliminate the problem, why don't you start with the distributor which also houses the ignition coil first before you go out and spend money on stuff that may make no difference.

This needs to be diagnosed (keyword).. instead of just replacing parts hoping for a cure eventually. First step, figure out whether this is a fuel or ignition related misfire. Does it miss at idle, or under load only?