Hi guys, I realise oil flushing has been covered over a few posts but was unsure if this topic has been.

I've got a TJ2 VRX with about 170k on the clock with transmission oil quite dark and burnt. After Mel's advice i'm wanting to put in an ATF cooler and do 2 flushes (prior) but have been told by mechanic that it may actually cause more damage as the new oil will although be cleaner, would be thinner and so may actually cause more damage than the dirty oil in there right now. Several website toolheads seem to back up this hypothesis. What do you guys think?

I think then flush is a necessity, you think about it, even if it did thin the oil it wouldn't be by much.

As for the idea of the remnants of a flush making the new oil worse that the old stuff thats just ridiculous.

By flush if you mean additives to clean things out, then my engine oil flush experience says no.
But if you just mean 2 oil changes then I can't think that would be a bad thing.

Graham.

You are joking, right? Flushing the old oil out of a trans is how you keep it clean inside and running properly.

The transmission was designed to run on that clean, thin oil. How could it do any harm?:nuts:

Even in the case where a trans has a removable filter, which Magna's dont (well mid th onwards anyway) the torque converter is full of dirty fluid

The theory of making it worse is rubbish, the fluid has the correct properties to avoid the clutch packs from burning and the material from becomming degraded. The dirty fluid will do far more damage. The idea that clean fluid can do more damage is laughable to be honest, dirty fluid has so many contaminents that it is not doing any good at all

As above, if they are referring to using a flushing additive, then I agree, this should never be used in a Mits Trans but replacing fluid and flushing is what they need, the 100's if not 1000's I have done have shown only good results.

Doing 2 flushes I am not really understanding why, if done properly only 1 is needed

Mal

You keep you engine oil changes up to date yes?
Therefore keeping your engine clean?
Why not your transmission as well?
I have seen way too many transmission fail because the fluid did not get changed and burnt the clutches out.
After all it is just another oil with a use by date.
An ATF cooler makes a BIG difference when working the car hard.

I'd say the new oil will be thicker than the old which is now chemically altered by overheating etc....and certainly more stable and have the correct friction characteristics required to operate the transmission correctly. I've never heard recommendations not to change transmission oil even by fervent greenies.

Ive heard that flushing agents can dislodge large chunks of gunk and have them block thin passageways somewhere else, but more regular oil changes can slowly break them down and dissolve them back into cleaner oil over time.

Personally im not really game to do an oil change on my auto trans. I had that common pressure ring thing break apart and was warned that an oil change may aid in helping the metal shards make their way to the transfer case.

Either way I decided to just go manual when i get a chance :)

What i'm planning to do as advised by my mechanic is drop a bottle of transmission cleaner (btw, it's a tippy) in then after 2 days drain out from the plug, refill with mitsu atf and add another bottle of trans cleaner, drive for another 2 days, drain, then top up. About 2 days later, mechanic will fit trans cooler, drop pan, clean and re-gasket and top up with trans again. The reason i'm wanting to do twice is I believe once may not remove enough of the crap that's in there so I figured, just to be on the safe side and it's not as if it will hurt it, what's another $50 (5lt atf and cleaner), just a bit extra piece of mind can't hurt.

Im quite sure - that everyone here, will tell you NOT to add anything to a Mistu transmission that is NOT Mitsubishi Transmission Fluid...

For what the genuine fluid costs - its cheaper to just flush an extra bottle of 5Lt through it than to buy a bottle of additive to put in there and then drop out in a few days time.....

Have a search around the forums here for transmission fluid changing - it can be DIY too (If I can do it, its GOTTA be easy!!!) also take note on what people are adding (or rather not adding) to the transmission fluid.
Mitsu autos - are rather picky and specific at what they like to run with

I've got a TJ2 VRX with about 170k on the clock with transmission oil quite dark and burnt....but have been told by mechanic that it may actually cause more damage as the new oil will although be cleaner, would be thinner and so may actually cause more damage than the dirty oil in there right now
If you had a dunga which you wanted to keep running for as long as possible with as little maintenance as possible, then yeah, I can see why you'd do this. Wouldn't recommend it if you actually value your car though. If your oil is currently dark/burnt you'll notice it running much nicer after a flush and a re-learn.


Personally im not really game to do an oil change on my auto trans. I had that common pressure ring thing break apart and was warned that an oil change may aid in helping the metal shards make their way to the transfer case.
Funnily enough, it was the opposite for me. Did an auto oil change at 95k (bought the car at 75k, so I assumed it was done at 50k) - the oil was horrifically dark, and a decent chunk of metal had actually broken off into the fluid :o) The prospect wasn't looking good, but since then I change the oil every 20-25k, and it's been fine (on 146k now). The auto still runs very smoothly, and certainly hasn't degraded in performance at all. Haven't found anything suspect in it since either.

I was just going to use Wynn's tranny flush which is only going to be in there for up to 2 days. But anyway while we are talking about additives, I did go to a transmission specialist a couple of years ago and he told me my autobox was cactus due to various issues, strart saving he tells me. He said in the meantime use this stuff called Lucas Transmission Fix. Straight after I used it, it stopped the slipping, flaring and hard shifting, so now I swear by it. I wonder if anyone else has used/heard of this magical stuff? Back to to the problem at hand, it looks like I will go ahead as planned and do the oil changes and flushes, gunk is definatelly better out, just thought i'd see if anyone else had been told it may be more detrimental after car has done so many k's. Thanks guys.

Still cant work out why you want to do 2 flushes

And with a Magna trans. please dont put in any additive at all, Magna Trans have differnt composition for the clutch packs for starters and while the initial feel may seem better, long run you are asking for a broken trans

. . . . . Lucas Transmission Fix. Straight after I used it, it stopped the slipping, flaring and hard shifting, so now I swear by it.

Most of these additives/flushes are simply a concentrated form of the additives already found in the fresh fluid, might perk your trans up for a while but the additive package would end up unbalanced and you would still have debris from worn clutch plates etc. floating about. A good flush would achieve a similar but longer term solution.

Most trans shops will tell you - for free - that your trans is "cactus", they won't look at it seriously until you commit some cash for them to look at it seriously. Normal practice.
Good advice is NEVER free. lol

Gunk out is not always strictly best. Firstly the gunk will have two days to float from places where it is probably doing no damage to places where it can do damage, which is always a problem with flushes. Secondly, i'd imagine its a similar situation to engine oil flushes. As oil breaks down it can deposit solid material and actually smooth out the cylinder lining. An oil flush would remove this material making the cylinders and cylinder lining much more abraisive. Its better to use oils with good detergents which will remove excess material without potentially damaging your car

Im in a simular situation, just bought a TJII VRX with a tippy and the auto has a few issues!

Just bought to hit 190,000kms

Doesn't happen all the time but it takes a few seconds to ingage gears at times, and at random (usually in mornings) it won't shift properly and rev out funny then change gears, very jumpy! However 99% of the time it shifts fine in D and in tip mode its fine all together, i'm thinking a good service will fix it, im doing the engine oil too!

How can i check the fluid level of the trans?

Also does anyone know what grade/type of engine oil is best in these cars? its a 3.5ltr engine, also how much oil is required if the filter is changed also?

Im in a simular situation, just bought a TJII VRX with a tippy and the auto has a few issues!

Just bought to hit 190,000kms

Doesn't happen all the time but it takes a few seconds to ingage gears at times, and at random (usually in mornings) it won't shift properly and rev out funny then change gears, very jumpy! However 99% of the time it shifts fine in D and in tip mode its fine all together, i'm thinking a good service will fix it, im doing the engine oil too!

How can i check the fluid level of the trans?

Also does anyone know what grade/type of engine oil is best in these cars? its a 3.5ltr engine, also how much oil is required if the filter is changed also?

Youve got the same problem everyone else gets with their tippy boxes, a metal ring on a pressure cuff or something has fallen apart in the transmission. The general concencus of mechanics, magna people etc ive spoken to is that it could be fine to drive to 10,000km or 200,000km, depending how lucky you are. Oil change wont do a thing to help the gear shift problem.

Not always is the issue the worst poss scenario

Could be simply just in need of a good and complete flush of the trans, have seen this many a time

The engine, HPR10 is a good oil, I always only use genuine filters

Trans flush is $160.00, is in need of this by the sounds of it and can not hurt, a trans filter and cooler is also a good move on these

Ok thanks guys!

yeh not really wanting to fork out the $3k for a trans, i will see how i go with a service and take it from there! doing the engine old tonight first!

I'd be happy to sell anyone my old Trans oil if they think its better for their transmission...lol

I'd be happy to sell anyone my old Trans oil if they think its better for their transmission...lol

Your are funny Bill, perhaps we can start up something as I have that much old trans fluid here, could retire

But seriously, this has been discussed to death so to summarise

Additives in Mits Transmissions are NO
Not Flushing a trans (as in fluid change and flush with no additive) NO

Moral, if you want to give your trans every chance of a good long life, flush with Mits SP3 rated fluid and do this when ever it gets dirty, and my 5c worth, add a filter and cooler

ok so the oil in the trans is more brown then red however it is full and doesn't appear to be leaking!

ok so the oil in the trans is more brown then red however it is full and doesn't appear to be leaking!

However, it is burnt, and needs replacing. It's be better for the trans if the fluid was new, partially low and leaking rather then burnt.

Or wait for the trans to die like mine is about to. . And convert to manual :D

Ok, so I won't put the Wynn's through it. I'll just buy a few bottles of Mitsubishi genuine auto trans oil and run it through over a few days driving to make sure I get it through all the plates, etc. Then a cooler added and a spin-on filter. Are those TE ones good enough or should I just go out and get one from Supercheap/Autobarn? I'm asking why becuase I thought someone said the TE bolts straight up on the TJ.

You dont have any benefit on running anything over a few days, you need to drain, refill and flush at the same time, if you drive a few days you are only going to contaminate the fluid in the trans

You are best off if you are not confident in doing it to pay $160 for a full flush, this includes fluid and labour

I'm confident, I just want to make sure I do it correctly. If I drain and refill then flush, then refill again. And after driving for an alloted period of time to bring the car up to running temperature and allow new oil to run through the gears, would it not benefit by then doing another drain and refill to ensure any contaminants that may have dislodged during the brief driving exercise are removed?

I'm confident, I just want to make sure I do it correctly. If I drain and refill then flush, then refill again. And after driving for an alloted period of time to bring the car up to running temperature and allow new oil to run through the gears, would it not benefit by then doing another drain and refill to ensure any contaminants that may have dislodged during the brief driving exercise are removed?

With a 2000 model TH just about to tick over 400K I have always used the MMA recommended procedure. Don't waste money on a second drain/flush if you really want to spend money though use it on a cooler and filter, these will extend the life of your transmission and will "pickup" any contaminants. Remember the initial flush should be done on a transmission that has just been driven and the MMA process to re-do the flush if the fluid coming out is not clean, so it might be worth having an extra 4 ltrs of fluid on hand just in case. Oh just remembered Oil color is not an indicator of the fluid having gone "off" it just means it is doing its job of picking up the containments (which are really particulate material from the friction surfaces in the transmission) however a burnt smell is not good and the fluid should be replaced ASAP.

Awesome, I just found the MMA Service Manual that tells exactly the correct way. You're right ernysp76 after filling it says to check for contamination, if contaminated, discharge approximately 3lt then check again....

Your are funny Bill, perhaps we can start up something as I have that much old trans fluid here, could retire

But seriously, this has been discussed to death so to summarise

Additives in Mits Transmissions are NO
Not Flushing a trans (as in fluid change and flush with no additive) NO

Moral, if you want to give your trans every chance of a good long life, flush with Mits SP3 rated fluid and do this when ever it gets dirty, and my 5c worth, add a filter and cooler

This man is on the money

Thanks ernysp76 as the comment about the filter and cooler are spot on

Given that I have done so many of these, I can tell you now that you will need at least 5l flushed through to get the old fluid out of the torque converter

DONT start the car, run it and check colour of fluid as you will only serve to contaminate your new fluid with the old. remove the cooler line, have that going into a container and with engine running let that discharge while topping up with fresh fluid. I get the fluid in 60 drums and with a pump I am able to make sure what comes out goes back in with fresh fluid

Yeah, I'll just jump in and probably state the obvious. If OP has read the Mitsi Workshop Manual, what they mean by "flush" is not run any trans fluid additive, not change oil a couple of times over a few days.

The "Mitsi way" of Trans Fluid Change/Flush Trans Fluid is to: Drain as much old fluid as will come out (whilst hot), then seal drain plug back in. Disconnect line coming from radiator trans cooler back to the transmission, and have someone run car briefly and pump out some designated quantity of trans fluid from the trans cooler line - it'll be old dark crap fluid. Stop car, top up that same amount or so of new clean trans fluid. Run car again and drain more old fluid from the trans cooler line. Top up again, run car, and have your lovely asistant also cycle the Gear Selector through all positions (this will flush all the lines in the valve body, I think its a good idea). OBVIOUSLY, if you or anyone is laying under the car collecting fluid being flushed from the trans cooler line, the accomplice in the car must not let the car actually move whilst running the selector thru its positions for forward or reverse gears. Continue the "top-up, run, flush out" cycle until the fluid being discharged from the oil cooler line looks clean and new. Its likely to be old dark oil the first few times, then look gradually cleaner as you go. When you are pretty sure its all new oil, stop the car and reconnect the cooler line (or add in your trans fluid cooler and possibly remote oil fliter housing). Check fluid level and top-up accurately to correct level.
You have now FLUSHED all the old oil out of your transmission and torque convertor. No need for miracle bottles of magic ingredients. Lots of tried-and-true stuff for transmissions "generally" do NOT apply to the Mitsi units. If some you-beaut idea or product applies to a Ford or GM unit, chances are it won't to our cars! Or so I believe.

My family has suffered the "wave spring" failure in two cars. If it happens, it happens. I can't understand how doing a trans fluid change/flush the way the manufacturer recommends will cause or prevent broken pieces of wave spring being flushed thru the probably defective internal strainer and into (ultimately) the trans oil pump. Sadly, the internal strainer cannot be accessed without dropping the box out, and splitting teh box in half - the labour for that and parts damaged by bits of wave spring being where they shouldn't is where the money evaporates if the ultimate failure strikes.

Elwyn, you're a legend. I had been wondering what people meant by "flush" for this whole thread hahs. Ive only worked on a manual skyline, kind of different.

With skylines it is recommended to add nulon g70 additive to trans and diff oils, im assuming these types of additives fall under madmagna's no additives rules? Just out of curiosity, why is this?

they colour the trans fluid for a reason, red is good, black is bad. flush it.

Apparently when mums TH came back from a dealer service a year or two back the trans fluid was a golden colour, like clean engine oil? Oh, and the filter was loose and dripping and the sump plug was finger tight. Hopefully its ATF and not engine oil in it, but it seems fine for now...

Elwyn, you're a legend. I had been wondering what people meant by "flush" for this whole thread hahs. Ive only worked on a manual skyline, kind of different.

With skylines it is recommended to add nulon g70 additive to trans and diff oils, im assuming these types of additives fall under madmagna's no additives rules? Just out of curiosity, why is this?
Nulon G70 to my manual gearbox made a world of difference. probably a different story with additives auto vs manual but as far as I'm aware nothing wrong with additives to manual GB's

Ok done. Did the flush pretty much exactly like Elwyn said. Nice red ATF in it now, mmmmm. Actually it smells so nice out of the bottle, like a sweet smell, poured some in a shot glass and old stuff in another to see the difference.....(secretly wanted to taste the new stuff, hehe). I noticed there were alot of air bubbles in the first load of dirty oil. I googled it and it said, "If the fluid is full of bubbles or is foamy, the transmission is probably overfilled with ATF. Other causes include using the wrong type of ATF or a plugged transmission vent". Gunk on plug was thick and black but not sure if metallic. Davies, Craig cooler being put in on Thursday. Hopefully this will all buy me another few good years, one can only hope.

Ok done. Did the flush pretty much exactly like Elwyn said. Nice red ATF in it now, mmmmm. Actually it smells so nice out of the bottle, like a sweet smell, poured some in a shot glass and old stuff in another to see the difference.....(secretly wanted to taste the new stuff, hehe). I noticed there were alot of air bubbles in the first load of dirty oil. I googled it and it said, "If the fluid is full of bubbles or is foamy, the transmission is probably overfilled with ATF. Other causes include using the wrong type of ATF or a plugged transmission vent". Gunk on plug was thick and black but not sure if metallic. Davies, Craig cooler being put in on Thursday. Hopefully this will all buy me another few good years, one can only hope.

Funny thing is that I have been telling you to do this flush since the start of this thread, no sure what has changed from the post from Elwyn, we both stated to do as per the manual, ie drop fluid and then make sure you push out the old fluid while filling with new fluid. There should not be bubbles out of the cooler hose when flushing unless you are starving the trans of fluid while flushing

In short, you dump, refil with 5.5l, then while engine is running you allow the old fluid to run out while topping up with new fluid

As for additives, for starters, Magna and Skyline have no comparisin and Manual and Auto are different, that nulon additive is a Manual trans additive, this thread is talking about auto transmissions

hehe Mel, I was always wanting to do the flush, I was just enquiring as to whether I should based on various opinions from mechanics (pros and other) and also on additives such as a Wynn's Flush. I ended up using nearly 3 bottles all up but of course well worth it.

LOL. Been away for a few days. I read the thread thru as well, Mal - and I just got a sense that a few folks understood what was meant by "flush" (the Magna way) and probably a lot who did not.
That was why I went on like a windbag to explain what "Flush" means for a Magna auto trans. Thought it would be wise to explain, rather than refer to the manual - obviously some don't have or read the PDF Workshop Manual.

It was also another opportunity to bang-on about how useful those free-to-download PDF manuals are.

To answer another question, the NULON G70 "toothpaste tube" gearbox additive. This was suggested to me by Mal/Madmagna a couple of yrs back for my MANUAL gearbox. Adding this stuff to an autop would be a recipe for disaster, I imagine.

I bought a MANUAL (Manual, not Auto, geddit?) TJ (poss 1.5 or series 2) Sports - which had had a flogging and 2nd gear synchro in particular was difficult. Tried new gear oil with limited improvement, then got the NULON stuff added - it not a miracle but its the next closest thing. Helps enormously, the manual box is still stiff/crunchy around 2nd when absolutely cold, but the Nulon G70 makes it a vast improvement once on the road.

The Nulon additive is full of friction-reducing magic stuff, which is a great idea in a manual box. Since an auto trans includes gears which could do with less friction BUT also CLUTCH-PACKS which rely on friction to operate properly, an additive such as this is unsuitable for auto-trans applications.

(Trivia: Think I noticed the other day that white plumbers sealing (teflon) tape is made of the same stuff that Nulon G70 is crammed with, PTFE I think its called).

I'm pretty sure

Well....the auto is booked in on wednesday to get serviced, the other day i was went to move the car after it had been sitting there for a day and it wouldn't move, and when i reved it, it would jolt forward like hopping (like letting a clutch off). It did this on reverse too..i havn't driven it since as im driving my commodore around to try sell it off, i hope a good service will fix the problem...fingers crossed!

Getting the transmission cooler put in today, checked on the mechanic at lunchtime and he found metal pieces stuck to the magnet on the drain plug. Ok.....so I know this is not good, pieces of the wave spring....how long have I got guys?!

I had a piece of metal floating in the fluid the first time I drained it after purchase. That was at 95,000km. I keep the servicing up (flush every 20k or so) and the car's now at 147,000km without any noticeable degradation.

So...

i got the auto done, there was a bolt which has metal flakes attached to the end, nothing major, car drives alot better, guy had my worried, my dad reckons when he did the auto service on his BA Xr6 he had metal flakes in the pan too and seemed to think it was normal.. needless to say the car drives alot better! we will see how we go over next few weeks!!

hey mate,

how did you go with your flush?

when i bought my TL, the previous owner hadn't serviced the car... the sticker on the windscreen said 140K.... i bought it at 170K. I could only the guess the auto trans hadn't been serviced too. After previously owning a TE, i had my concerns in regard to slippage. I installed a Oil cooler too, i also installed a magne filter http://www.magnafilter.com.au/ which is a external transmission filter. I hooked it up inline with the cooler. The transmission gets a power flush every 20K and i change the filter too.... the filter kit is $60 from repco. and i think the replacement filter is something like $30. But avoid going to repco, cos they are a rip off....

REPCO - Rip Every Poor Off yes i went there.... and yes i got ripped off, and also the chick behind the counter had NO idea what the hell i was on about... after i told her it was a aftermarket universal external transmission filter. She replied, i need to know what car it's for...

The problem I see with an aftermarket filter for the transmission oil is where it is installed. Most auto trans with them fitted standard have them installed at the oil pickup point so that all oil is filtered before it reaches the pump.
Installing the filter in the existing oil cooler lines means the filter is filtering oil after it has gone through the pump....meaning the dreaded wave spring breaking and jamming the pump etc will not be avoided if it breaks as the oil entering the pump is not filtered.

yes you are right, but there is alot of metal floating around in transmission fluid. The filter i'm using is a magnetic filter as well. In addition, can you get to the internal filter without taking off the gearbox in a Magna???

Sadly that is the only option we have with the Magna's. after the fluid has gone through the system. The idea of the filter is to at lease filter out what you can anyway

No, the trans has to come apart to get to the internal filter

Personally I will not provide a filter where the oil filter is advertised to be good for 80k's, also these inline filters while reasonable, the derale ones in my opinion are better, they are a spin on filter similar to the TE-early TH spin on filters.

Flush every 20k, little excessive, sounds like something I would do to my car if I had an auto lol, generally though, especially with filter and cooler, 40 - 60k would be fine