Hey fellow Magnatronians,

I'm currently running a K&N panel air filter, 'flowed' throttle body, aftermarket Fuel Pressure Reg and Pacemaker Headers in a 2002 TJ Sport.

How much gain can be expected if I installed a Pod style K&N Filter (without Cold Air Ind)? I'll probably need to make a heat shield of some kind.

I'm not sure if it's worth the investment.

Cheers for any input :ninja:

wont see barley any gains. unless its done correctly you will actualy loose performance due to the heat on the intake. although it will make your exhaust sound slightly different and give you nice intake noise?

Aha, so it'll be sucking more 'heated' air if anything.

Cheers Matt

in theory.

i did a mod to the standard airbox in my thirdgen and stuck a pod inside it. i noticed no gain or loss. altough it made the exhaust have a nicer tone and i got great induction noise underload

I give you.. my pod filter setup

http://www.joshuaburford.com/11.jpg

http://www.joshuaburford.com/9.jpg

Has more top end, but less low end usable power. And makes an epicly loud noise :}

Just get a panel filter, these arent million hp monsters and a k&n panel filter is widely regarded as being as good as a shielded pod. All adding an unshielded pod will do is sap your power and increase detonation

I give you.. my pod filter setup

http://www.joshuaburford.com/11.jpg



Oooh shiny :D

or run what ive got on my magna... A stock paper filter in the original airbox with the original inlet snorkel but with a added 85mm pipe picking up cooler air from in behind the bumper bar, certainly doesnt hold back my engine from making power.... Even the magna race guys use the stock airbox but with a different inlet pickup point

Back to back on the dyno on my magna, a K&N panel filter made 2 tenths of F all difference over a clean stock filter....bout the best part of a K&N is the reuseability but even then that can be a issue as there is always a chance that a person can "over" oil the filter and make it flow even less (not to mention coat the MAF with oil)

or run what ive got on my magna... A stock paper filter in the original airbox with the original inlet snorkel but with a added 85mm pipe picking up cooler air from in behind the bumper bar, certainly doesnt hold back my engine from making power.... Even the magna race guys use the stock airbox but with a different inlet pickup point

Back to back on the dyno on my magna, a K&N panel filter made 2 tenths of F all difference over a clean stock filter....bout the best part of a K&N is the reuseability but even then that can be a issue as there is always a chance that a person can "over" oil the filter and make it flow even less (not to mention coat the MAF with oil)

Totally agree Jase.
Pretty much the same result when i modded my Ralliart. Your only going to get a slight difference in air flow + being able to reuse it over and over. Oh yes, don't over oil the bloody thing!:nuts:
The throttle body will give you nothing without some sort of FI... if i were you i'd sell it and get my money back.

An all stock magna CAI is the perfect setup for performance but is increased with an aftermarket inlet pickup point as Jase described. The pod can be located down below with some aftermarket piping but your not going to achieve any worthwhile gains in all honesty unless your going FI. But, if you want it to have grunt... then the pod will give you that, just less power as you will definitely be sucking in hot air.

Back to back dyno tests under the same conditions can give an error of 15wkw, dynos cant reliably be used to determine differences of a few kw, like when comparing panel filters for cars with less than many hundreds of kw more than most magnas are producing

Spend the money on a flux capacitor, you'll at least get some gain out of that.
pod filter = totally and utterly useless.

I run a K and N pod, basically unshielded. It definitely lost power. Looses LOTS of power in hot weather. Sounds ****ing fantastic. Has a little flat spot between 4 and 5 thousand RPM.

Back to back dyno tests under the same conditions can give an error of 15wkw, dynos cant reliably be used to determine differences of a few kw, like when comparing panel filters for cars with less than many hundreds of kw more than most magnas are producing

Precisely. No dyno result will give you an accurate answer.


Wylcard, the only noticeable difference between a K&N panel and stock paper filter is the air flow which was only minor initially and of course filtration. When the guys showed me the slight difference in air flow (on the computer while the tuning software program was running live), they compared the K&N panel and stock paper filter and I was surprised with the results. A brand new K&N panel and a brand new stock paper filter are very similar however, the thickness required in a paper filter to achieve the ideal filtration also means that the airflow is not as good in comparison to the K&N panel. The panel filter designed by K&N performs better for longer, even though the initial test shows no real significant gains. Over time your air filter will clog, the paper filter at roughly $25 will need to be replaced more ofter, the K&N panel filter will only need to be serviced but will last a heluva lot longer between these intervals.

So, you weigh up the cost of buying a new filter every service compared to maintaining the K&N. Each to his/her own but however small the gains were in airflow but better filtration with the K&N, the K&N panel in my opinion is a better choice more so in the long term.

But yeah, Wylcard, don't believe anyone who says that the pod will give you extra kw's... you will most likely lose power (if still stock and placed in the wrong position) but gain some added note to the engine sucking in that air. To really get an idea of the best use for a pod, go for a drive in an FI car that's been modded well with a pod. If i could take you for a drive in mine i would but sorry, won't head to W.A just for that.
Cheers mate, hope this helped.

Here is a link to an informative read:
http://www.torquecars.com/tuning/induction-kits.php

A foam filter is suposed to actually filter better than a K&N.

Here is a write up showing/explaining the differences between a foam filters, K&N (aka gauze filters) filters and paper filters.

http://www.perrinperformance.com/pages/show/129

A foam filter is suposed to actually filter better than a K&N.

Here is a write up showing/explaining the differences between a foam filters, K&N (aka gauze filters) filters and paper filters.

http://www.perrinperformance.com/pages/show/129

Yes, the newer advanced design of these 'foam' filters do filter better than a K&N gauze, totally agree Jase, very interesting read too.

I was specifically talking about the stock paper filters you get (not to be confused with the foam filters) in comparison to the K&N panel. The air flow is considerably more efficient however, the difference in small particles filtration is the 'big' issue i guess considering K&N go on about their advanced filtration system filters. Although, when you look at the data, the difference between the larger particles filtration of both is pretty much the same bar 1 basis point.
As i said in my previous post these guys have done their testing and the results are the same as i discovered regarding air flow. But K&N need to do some more testing on their small particle filtration. lol

INFO BELOW FROM ARTICLE: (Thanks Jase)
"Tests were done using SAE J726C Test Method.
http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3617/airfiltertesttable.jpg (http://img248.imageshack.us/i/airfiltertesttable.jpg/)
As you can see, K&Ns are great for airflow, which is what they were designed for. Their original application was on racing engines, where airflow is important and ultimate engine life was of little concern. They are not as good at filtering as paper or oiled foam types."

Quoted directly from the article findings.

Clearly the K&N will flow better, but filtration will be at a slight loss to larger particles but considerable difference to smaller particles.
So, from this data we can clearly say that;
No.1 Air Filter for 'Airflow capacity': [which directly relates to 'improved' performance gains.]
TIE BETWEEN - Oiled Foam and Oiled Gauze (N&N)
Paper Air fliter however... no comparison on Airflow.

BEST SCORING OVERALL AIR FILTER:
1. Oiled Foam 30/35 Points
2. Oil Bath 28/35 Points (Outdated technology that hinders performance.)
3. Oiled Gazed (K&N) 20/35 Points
4. Paper 17/35 Points

BEST OVERALL PERFORMANCE AIR FILTER:
1. Oiled Foam 30/35 Points |Airflow: 5 / Filtration: 10
2. Oiled Gazed (K&N) 20/35 Points |Airflow: 5 / Filtration: 6
3. Paper 17/35 Points |Airflow: 2 / Filtration: 9
4. Oil Bath 28/35 Points |Airflow: 3 / Filtration: 6
(Remember the oil bath air filter is outdated technology. Please don't consider this when looking for air filtration for your car. :D)

TRIVIA:
Oiled Foam Filter (Visteon Long Life Filtration System)
In 2003 Ford Motor company introduced the Visteon Long Life Filtration System to the Ford Focus. This system has a foam filter placed in the bumper of the car and is stated to have a 150,000-mile (240,000 km) service interval. According to a technical paper published by Society of Automotive Engineers, this design offers higher and more stable filtration efficiency than conventional air filters.

Totally blown away by he response guys! Thanks for all the input. Some experimenting with the foam type filter and perhaps running the intake lower down (nearer bumper) where it gets cooler air may be the next little project.

Cheers all.

While this is still active as such..

What about the RPW style CAI..? Are they of any benefit..?

SuFz

SuFz, please dont BUY the Rpw intake, I made a full D.I.Y. using exactly the same parts WITH PRETTY PICTURES for you all.. :) I saved like over $100 doing it myself....

Once again, absolutely NO performance gains, it suited my 3.0lt to a T because it opened up the car a bit more at the top end and the sound was like.... AMAZING, I had to check for small children and animals when I was doing above 4,000rpm!

Check my "started threads" for the the DIY :)

LOL.. Theres no way in hell I'm gonna buy one.. I already have a similar style one.. I was just wondering if it was worthwhile installing it or not..

SuFz

Here is the link

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77885

after all my mucking around with this stuff..tried heaps of different setups.. k&n oval pod, K&n round pod. round foam pods, K&n oval pod in ezboy sealed box, k&n panel filter, stock paper filter

my conclusion ... if you want to make some induction noise get a pod of whatever sort.. doesnt matter what

otherwise stick to total stock setup, it works fine..

stick to total stock setup, it works fine..

Truer words have never been said. K&N has a lot to answer for, except for the fact that their filters last forever if you maintain them.

Why does my MAF have 7 wires..? Lol.. I might be seeing things but it looks like 7 wires to me..

Models with the Baro sensor in the MAF have a extra wire

That's not gonna cause any issues putting in a noise making CAI..?

Edit.. Doubled up on forum runner!

No, mine only has 5 cuz I dont have cruise or TCL.... I believe thats the extra 2 wires...