Looking for advice from any resident sparky.
Got HIDs fitted yesterday to my 380 by Michael (maggie3.5). Both high beam (H7) and low beam/combo (H4).
A few little hiccups along the way, but everthing seemed to work OK in the end.
But big problems since.
In order, this is the story:
Yesterday about 3.00 pm pulled into my garage and flicked the lights on (low beam) to help judge the distance from the front wall, as you do.
Car stalled and I had trouble restarting it, obviously had gone into limp home mode (have experience of limp home mode, keep reading!).
Connected my OBD2 scanner and it showed error code P0336 = crank angle sensor malfunction.
Had this same code & limp home mode about a year ago, two days after I fitted a new Optima Redtop battery. See thread "Scary new error code".
That time it fixed itself and has never been a problem since, I'm guessing it was due to a power spike and the ECU throwing a hissy fit. As we know 380 ECUs are very fussy and will throw CELs and limp home modes at the drop of an oily rag.
Let the car sit for a couple of hours, started up no probs and ran perfectly, went for a 20k drive but didn't turn the lights on until after I had stopped & turned the ignition off, lights worked.
This morning set off to work no problems, but about 10 minutes in the car again went into limp home mode. Didn't have the lights on at the time, had them on only briefly after I first set off, then turned them off.
Pulled into a side street, turned the car off, checked wiring connections, all seemed OK, let it sit for 5 minutes. Phoned Michael, he suggested I loosen the cable ties around the passenger side HID ballasts, which we mounted between the airbox & the ECU. Michael thought that the cable ties might be putting sideways pressure on the ECU plugs and causing the problem.
Loosened the cable ties and the car started and ran perfect after that, but not game to turn the lights on.
Started and ran perfectly OK on the return trip from work to home, but again did not turn the lights on.
Ran some tests at home tonight.
Lights both high beam & low beam worked perfectly with engine off and with ignition on.
Turned lights off & started engine, OK so far.
Turned lights on (low beam) with engine running and instant stall!
Would not restart, obviously in limp home mode again.
Plugged in OBD2 scanner, up popped error code P0336 again. Cleared code.
Let car sit for 10 minutes then disconnected the power leads for the HIDs (two connections to the positive battery terminal). Started car up, wouldn't start to begin with, had to give it some throttle, but then it ran perfectly. Did a few laps of the block, no problems.
Turned car off, restarted no probs, went for another lap, no probs.
Reconnected the power leads for the HIDs, started car, ran perfectly, turned lights on, hey presto instant stall again!
I'm thinking the problem is/was nothing to do with the cable ties putting pressure on the ECU plugs. It wasn't a lot of pressure and the plugs are very tight/firm anyway.
Michael reckons he's fitted a few sets of HIDs to Magnas & 380s, including both of his, and has never come across this problem before.
Could it maybe have some connection to the fact I have a ChipTorque Xede piggyback ECU fitted?
Obviously I can't drive at night ATM, need to fix this problem urgently, and would rather not have to take to car into an auto electrician or rip out the HIDs and put the stock lighting back in.
Help!

I can't say for certain, but...

Cars that use a CANbus system for their suite of computers and electronics are very specific about signal voltages supplied to the ECM and BCM. There could be a chance that the HIDs are causing a voltage issue with the system.

I would recommend switching back to the standard globes to see if the problems go away.

Um going to say this return to stock bulbs :) I think the problem is with your hid ballast as the emf fields are stuffing up your ecu's. Might need to try a different brand of ballast or relocate where the ballast are if is emf that screwing your ecu's.

Im not sure exactly what they are called, ferrite rings or something maybe? You see them on a lot of things that go into a computer, I have one on my USB mouse and one on my USB extension lead, they were on the playstation controllers near where they plugged in, its like a little cylinder encased in plastic that the wire goes through or wraps around once?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrite_bead
would they do anything to help?

Um going to say this return to stock bulbs :) I think the problem is with your hid ballast as the emf fields are stuffing up your ecu's. Might need to try a different brand of ballast or relocate where the ballast are if is emf that screwing your ecu's.

mmmm..how far do you suggest moving the ballasts and can they be shielded.....i have mine mounted in nearly exactly the same place,but a bit further away,i mean we are only talking about 10-15 cm,but would that be enough ??

and if you have ever put HID IN A 380 ,you know its not a five minute job either,damm access is so tight that you need to take the headlight off to get to it properly ,and that is bumper skin and all splash trays off...some thing we want to avoid if we can

Maybe ,Kim,we can try swapping your HID Ballast with a set of spares i have, or move them as far away from the ECU as you can....

Um going to say this return to stock bulbs :) I think the problem is with your hid ballast as the emf fields are stuffing up your ecu's. Might need to try a different brand of ballast or relocate where the ballast are if is emf that screwing your ecu's.

Thanks mate, will try relocating the passenger side ballasts away from the ECUs and see if that does the trick!

What was the light output like before, during and after the problem happened? Did you notice any variance in light intensity?

Thanks mate, will try relocating the passenger side ballasts away from the ECUs and see if that does the trick!

Bummer!

Moved the passenger side ballasts well clear of the ECUs.

Started car, no probs.

Turned lights on, instant stall & limp home mode!

Michael - let's try swapping ballasts.

This may sound like a silly question, but did you use any additional relays in the installation? or did you connect it all through the existing lighting circuit?

Put a capacitor in line with the ballasts, when you switch them on they spike the power draw for a second or 2 which will be taking away from the important bits. If the ballasts can draw from a reserve supply (the capacitors), they wont (shouldnt) affect any other electrical components.

Put a capacitor in line with the ballasts, when you switch them on they spike the power draw for a second or 2 which will be taking away from the important bits. If the ballasts can draw from a reserve supply (the capacitors), they wont (shouldnt) affect any other electrical components.

well ,they are wired straight off the battery and both kits are run through relay set ups...got me beat ,and im a bit dubious about swapping for different types of ballasts...should this be an issue ...dont want to try it with my ballasts and it ****s up or worse,it works for him,but meh,he may have to get another kit,as who is to say it wont do the same to mine if i put them in mine...and how can turning them on cause a spike when the car is running and all..

You are correct, turning them on shouldn't cause the spike, the spike is normally caused when you turn them off, and the charged up coil "kicks back". Usually a "quenching Diode" across the coil is used to absorb the spike.

Try changing the relays, to better quality and higher Amp rating.

You are correct, turning them on shouldn't cause the spike, the spike is normally caused when you turn them off, and the charged up coil "kicks back". Usually a "quenching Diode" across the coil is used to absorb the spike.

Try changing the relays, to better quality and higher Amp rating.


well they are the relays that came in the kit,so i dont think changing them is going to fix it.....

well they are the relays that came in the kit,so i dont think changing them is going to fix it.....

That's the same logic I applied before I changed my std brakes to 380's...food for thought...lol

So if we assume that these relays are good quality, and have the diode already built into them, how do you know that you have wired pins 85 and 86 for the power to the coil the right way? The coil will work in any direction but the diode will not, and its there to prevent the spike. Since we already know that the diode can suppress in one direction then its important that Cathode end is wired to the +12V. Check with a multimeter.

Could even be faulty relays. Try swapping the relay between high beam and low beam. (As I understand the problem only occurs on low beam?)

Just putting it out there... thats all. Otherwise your SOL.

Problem identified.

I tried to post up a hunch earlier today but the site crashed when I hit 'send'.

My hunch was that it is the ChipTorque Xede being rogered by the electrical field emitted by the ballasts whenever the lights are turned on, and in turn causing the main ECU to have a fit. Based on the fact that that is the only significant electrical difference between my 380 & Michael's

Got a mobile sparky out just now, he couldn't find the problem, all the wiring & connections OK (what else would you expect from Michael!) so I explained my theory to him.

Disconnected the Xede (I have a blanking plug for it), hey presto everything works again! Start car, turn on lights, no stalling, runs a dream!

So it is the Xede that is the problem.

Doesn't matter how far away we move the ballasts from the connected Xede, still a problem.

The sparky reckons my best bet, as a first try, is to shield the Xede from the ballasts and HID wiring by wrapping them in lots of alfoil.

I'll give that a go & see if it works.

KJ.

Update.

Wrapped the Xede and the HID wiring in heaps of alfoil.

Seemed to work, car kept running this time with no hiccups after turning the lights on. Bewdy I thought.

Took it for a drive, and bummer, it started to conk out after only a few hundred metres. Not a full conk, but enough to make it pretty crappy to drive.

Plugged the OBD2 scanner back in, code P0336 back again.

Looks like HIDs and a ChipTorque Xede are simply not compatible. And I thought the stock 380 ECU was fussy!

OK Michael, no choice but to yank the HIDs and put the 'ordinary' globes back in.

Might be able to get away with not dropping the front bar off and pulling the light assemblies out.

Im not sure exactly what they are called, ferrite rings or something maybe? You see them on a lot of things that go into a computer, I have one on my USB mouse and one on my USB extension lead, they were on the playstation controllers near where they plugged in, its like a little cylinder encased in plastic that the wire goes through or wraps around once?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrite_bead
would they do anything to help?

Try timi idea, just wrap the ferrite around the supply to the aftermarket ecu or a capacitor like another suggestion :) There got to be a way around the issue.

Could the HIDs being drawing too much current when they are switched on, which then causes the Xede to 'crash'?

Are you able to disconnect the Xede, switch on the lights and then reconnect the Xede all while the car is running? - or something similar to rule out a constant interference versus a switch-on power drop or startup causing electrical conflict, etc.

Can you try insulating the case of the HID transformers? On another forum a couple of ppl have experience of positive earth transformer cases !!! Oh what fun that gave them.

Oggy.
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Nah the current isn't a issues as that would pop a fuse or melt wiring. It an interfence with emf field, plus this theory has been proven with a tin foil hat shielding the ballast and the car run fine for short while.

Sorry Oggy, no way to swap between Xede disconnected and Xede connected or vice versa while the engine is running. Involves pulling a plug which as soon as you pull it = engine no go.

Might try the ferrite ring idea before i give up and yank the HIDs.

Anyone know where I can get them from?

Search E-bay maybe, theres a chance jaycar or even dick smith may have them, ask at the counter and they may be able to help with the whole problem or at the very least sell you some to play with. Have you tried shielding around the ECU and the ballasts at the same time, maybe with some baking paper as well so the alfoil sheets arent electrically connected? If this works then try something thats a little more friendly to heat buildup like some earthed aluminium flyscreen around both.

Thanks TiMi, my local Jaycar has packs of four clip on ferrite rings of the right size for around $20 a pop, the bloke there reckons they will do the trick (explained my situation to him), will pick up a pack today or tomorrow and give it a try.

Have you tried shielding the exede with lead sheeting?

Have you tried shielding the exede with lead sheeting?

Now there seems to be an easier solution than ferrite rings...and what not....but,good luck with it ,hope it works out,could always try both.

I also remember I had some lead sheet somewhere... I think the roofing stuff.

Problem solvered!!!

Thanks guys, and especially TiMi for suggesting the ferrite rings.

Stuck four ferrite rings on, one on each end of the Xede cabling and one on each of the HID power cables.

Went for a 40k run at various speeds and throttle openings, with the lights on the whole way, and not a hint of a glitch.

Couldn't test high beam other than in my garage, no problems there, but I don't imagine the rings would fix low beam but not high beam.

So now we know - if you fit HIDs to a 380 and have a ChipTorque Xede (and probably just about any piggyback ECU like a UniChip) a $20 pack of ferrite rings will save the day.

A bit of lead sheeting might also work, who knows, but not the easiest stuff to come by.

Glade you got it sorted :) You can get lead sheeting as it use in roofing game it call flashin (sp). But having lead in your car would add unwanted weight better sticking with the feritte beads :)

Yay I was useful on here! First time for everything...

Do they just clip on in 2 halves or do you have to feed the wire through? Does it go through the ring once or twice? Pics even?

Clip on I belive....http://www.jaycar.com.au/products_uploaded/productLarge_1639.jpg

Yep, clip on (hinged in the middle) just like Bill's pic. Once through the ring. Piece of cake to fit.

Wow.

Just read this thread first time. One to remember. The simple things...
I have an Exede of course.

Yep, clip on (hinged in the middle) just like Bill's pic. Once through the ring. Piece of cake to fit.

so these went on where...the cables from the ballast or the main power wire from the battery?

so these went on where...the cables from the ballast or the main power wire from the battery?

The latter. Down near the Xede, not at the battery end. Plus one on each end of the Xede wiring. Dunno which ring or rings did the trick, CBF running a bunch of tests, all I know is it works!

The latter. Down near the Xede, not at the battery end. Plus one on each end of the Xede wiring.
Dunno which ring or rings did the trick, CBF running a bunch of tests, all I know is it works!

and ,that is all we need to know.

So,after all the hassle and B/S,are the H.I.D headlights worth it ??

and ,that is all we need to know.

So,after all the hassle and B/S,are the H.I.D headlights worth it ??

Dunno yet, haven't been for a decent drive at night on unlit roads yet, and haven't used high beam at all yet. Maybe tomorrow night.

All I can tell so far is that going by the reflection off the car in front the low beams are definitely a lot brighter than before, remains to be seen how well they light the road in front, the spread etc.