Well that is what I am thinking anyhow.

Daughters TP Manual has got a nasty sound coming out, plus oil light is on all the time now. No bottom end noise, but very loud top end tappet noise. The other sound is a strange squealing sound, almost like a dry squeal. Strange thing is, on first start up, it is all quiet, but after about 45 seconds she starts to rattle, then sounds all get a little louder, so I shut it down quick like, without really finding the source.

I was rebuilding the TP Elite wagon motor, the only difference being it was an Auto gearbox car. Is there anything I need to be aware of if I decide to put this in the manual car. Things such spigot bearings & flywheel bolts. I mention these, because when I owned a commodore VN Calais 5 spd Man, the whole crankshaft fitting was different to the auto in number of bolts and spigot size.

If you have any other thoughts on the original motors noises and possible solutions I am open to ideas there too.

Cheers, Jeff

Shouldn't be any different. Should just be able to unbolt the flywheel and torque converter off and swap them around.

Not sure what the sound is.. I was going to say take the timing cover off and have a look, but that would be around the other way, it should be making noise at startup then quiet down once it has oil pumping around.

Could be tappets.. those are easy to replace. Keep the motor and take it apart as a project, to find out what's wrong.

No oil pressure if the oil light is on all the time. Probably broke the counter balance shaft chain, which runs the oil pump. or the oil pickup is blocked or come adrift. (Assuming the oil level is right)

I think the motors will be a straight swap over, but use the right sandwich plate and check that the starter motors have the same projection. (As well as swapping over the manual bits like flywheel, clutch etc of course)

dont know this one

second gen v6 auto to manual cranks are different

have to wait till you take the motor out

unless someone has a pic of a manual crank end to compare

the worst would be having to drill the flywheel to suit

second gen v6 auto to manual cranks are different



Here we are dealing with first gen cars though, safe to assume it is Astron 4 cylinder being swapped. (I hope)

Yes, definitely a four cylinder :) Oil level is good and no sound of chains flapping around. Could be a pickup issue or spring broken maybe. Will keep the engine and investigate further as I think this was a rebuild anyway.
Thanks for the info all, good to know its not a complex issue between the manual and auto engines.

Jeff

only thing to do is swap engine mounts from the motor your taking out to the new motor. and aircon mount. thats the only issue,s ill had when doing same swap.

Well, we got the engine out and everything we see points to a recent rebuild or recon motor.

Compression test before strip down was 175 psi, water jackets are relatively clean in block and welsh plugs have been replaced with brass ones.

The horrible noise was some teeth on the crankshaft sprocket coming off and the chain missing them I guess. The oil pressure failure was due to the chain seperating and finally lodging itself behind the same crankshaft sprocket and rubbing against it as the motor was being turned over. The oil warning light and chain failure occurred after we had the car in the workshop, so the engine was shut down immediately. A check of the bottom end revealed no damage to mains or crankshaft bearings. (Proper testing gauges used!)

So, it is back to rebuilding this motor, but with a TS M8 head, cam and rockers etc. I also have new cam chain, guides etc for peace of mind going back in. A full extractor with larger diameter exhaust system is being fitted and of course a complete tune up with new plugs etc to be sure.

My only question now is about this kit I have heard about that removes the balance shaft. What is the advantage of it, how will it affect the motors running, eg vibration, performance. Where are they available from and how much?

Cheer's Jeff

got my balance shaft removal kit from there
$49 two years ago


the engine is a bit more perky around 3000 rpm
there is a slight increase in vibration but
only noticeable in the auto model

there is a write up in my tm-tp posts with a pic
post seven from the last

It's worth checking why the crank cog lost its teeth and the chain failed. If the dead chain is dry, ie free of oil when you pulled it out, the oiler jet on the front of the block may be clogged. A common problem if the engine has had oil changes neglected. Also the condition of the guides is a good indication if the chains have been running dry. Also check the oil pump for seizing and relief valve sticking.

Failure like this isn't common - my last 4 cylinder was up to 220,000 km on the original chains, cogs and guides without any startup noises.

It's worth checking why the crank cog lost its teeth and the chain failed. If the dead chain is dry, ie free of oil when you pulled it out, the oiler jet on the front of the block may be clogged. A common problem if the engine has had oil changes neglected. Also the condition of the guides is a good indication if the chains have been running dry. Also check the oil pump for seizing and relief valve sticking.

Failure like this isn't common - my last 4 cylinder was up to 220,000 km on the original chains, cogs and guides without any startup noises.

Yes, I was thinking that things happen for a reason. Can's say for certain about how dry the chain was, it had sat for three days before it was stripped down. The chain was as neat as could be, like the joining link never existed. The oil pump gears spin nice and free, however the plan is to strip it down and check it out. Did not know about the oiler on the front though, nice to get this feed back, it points out the little things I would have missed otherwise :thumbsup:
After discussion with mechanic we are pretty sure this is a rebuilt engine, but whomever rebuilt it, was a little pre occupied we think. Subtle errors like finger tight bolts in places, some internal, some external all this and places where the gaskets have been sealed, then undone, resealed and damaged leaving small telltale marks. It all just points to rushing the job out we reckon. Well anyhow, it'll have to go on the back burner for a couple of weeks as I have to head back into hospital in a few days. However I am armed with good info and I shall have all the tools, Gaskets and kits ready for when I get out. Should be a nice little car when its finished, looking forward to getting it done.

Cheers, Jeff

Original chains never have a joining link as far as I know, I have seen aftermarket cam chains with them. (never on the other chain though)

The oiler is just a small round protrusion from the face of the block with a tiny hole in it, about 2 or 3 cm above the crankshaft. It squirts a jet of oil downwards at about 45 degrees onto the bottom cogs and chains. If its working and you run the engine with the rocker cover off you get a nice spray off the cam chain where it sticks out of the head. Not recommended lol But if you run the engine and switch it off, then rip the rocker cover off the cam chain should be covered in oil, probably a better way to check. lol