Hey guys i thought some of you might be interested in a little experience i had today with my magna ecu :)
a friend of mine is high up in a australia wide respected car repair establishment and he gets to test all the new equipment and decide wether they are going to buy it or not..
anyway he had this thingamy that analyses the ecu in all sorts of late model cars so i brought mine around, we hooked it up and went for a drive :)
When this thing connects to the computer it hooks to the diagnostic connector under the dash.. when handshaking, the engine light and the srs (i think) lights in the dash come on and flash like the lights on a modem!!! (tx/Rx).. the software in this computer thingamy then asks you wether u wanna connect to the engine or auto or traction control /abs or srs blah blah anyway
if you connect to the engine you can see all your sensors working and air temp, barometric pressure, ignition timing all being adjusted on the fly.. the auto one you can see all the solenoids changing gears, the idle speed and slip of the clutches, the oil temp gearbox and car speed and engine speed etc etc..
you can switch on and off fuel pump, fans, and ajust everything it was so cool
anyway so i just thought id let you all know :) i now have a different view of my car! its like driving around a big computer haha
GuRu

does that thing allow the acutal modification of the maps, or did it only read data from the ECU.

what sorta device hooked up to the ECU, was it a handheld computer or a laptop of some description? you should see if you can get some screen shots of all the info. should be interesting to see :)

Its post like that, that clog up a forum...GBMs post i am refering to. No offence dude...but u already told us that in another thread...¿

told us what now? all i see is GBM asking questions ?_?

told us what now? all i see is GBM asking questions ?_?

He edited it :)

guess i'm sorta lucky i get to play with this stuff all day.
I mainly do efi diagnostics at my work so i spend alot of time driving around using these expensive units.
Being a dealership we have 4 specific diagnostic computers for each manufacturer and we don't have any choice in the matter as it is part of the dealer agreement. At an average of $5000 each plus yearly subscritions for software upgrades/reprograming for newmodels etc it can add up quite quickly.
My favorite is the hyundai hiscan as it based on a model released by nextech which i think is based in perth.It is a handheld unit which is expandable by pcmcia memory cards and is a very powerful tool
as it has a built in multimeter function, 20 mhz digital oscillioscope, pc connectivity for upgrades and the ability to save captured waveforms/graphs for later comparison,etc etc.Nextech have just released software cards for this baby which allow us to use it on just about any make/model.
I have just "acquired" some software which allows me to edit fuel and ignition maps and flash hyundai eeprom's but it's not much chop compared to a fully programmble aftermarket ecu.
I will post some pics up tomorrow gbm of some of these tools.
In the coming years most manufacturers are going to pc based testers using laptops like a few european manufacturers already do but i don't like the idea as they are not as portable or robust as the current lot.
The mitsu one is a few generations behind this ,subarus is excellent almost as good as the hyundai's and kia use the same unit as hyundai with just a different software card .

guess i'm sorta lucky i get to play with this stuff all day.
I mainly do efi diagnostics at my work so i spend alot of time driving around using these expensive units.
Being a dealership we have 4 specific diagnostic computers for each manufacturer and we don't have any choice in the matter as it is part of the dealer agreement. At an average of $5000 each plus yearly subscritions for software upgrades/reprograming for newmodels etc it can add up quite quickly.
My favorite is the hyundai hiscan as it based on a model released by nextech which i think is based in perth.It is a handheld unit which is expandable by pcmcia memory cards and is a very powerful tool
as it has a built in multimeter function, 20 mhz digital oscillioscope, pc connectivity for upgrades and the ability to save captured waveforms/graphs for later comparison,etc etc.Nextech have just released software cards for this baby which allow us to use it on just about any make/model.
I have just "acquired" some software which allows me to edit fuel and ignition maps and flash hyundai eeprom's but it's not much chop compared to a fully programmble aftermarket ecu.
I will post some pics up tomorrow gbm of some of these tools.
In the coming years most manufacturers are going to pc based testers using laptops like a few european manufacturers already do but i don't like the idea as they are not as portable or robust as the current lot.
The mitsu one is a few generations behind this ,subarus is excellent almost as good as the hyundai's and kia use the same unit as hyundai with just a different software card .

Yeah dude this thing was made by nexgen and it said hiscan on the screen but it had all the mitsubishi stuff built into it - its a handheld with a lcd screen and a yellow plastic casing - aparently about $15,000 worth or something..
he also had this other handheld lcd thing but we didnt hook that one up cos it said unknown device for his statesman.. it was some sort of engine tuneup machine..

GBM - i dont think you could actually change the computer maps but it gave you a realtime reading from all the sensors - you could log and graph individual ones etc - and then there were diagnostic ones where you could switch on and off different injectors, fuel pump, radiator fans, relays etc.
a very cool toy :)

Here's a photo of our hiscan by nextech.
There is a standard in use in the states called OBD which is gradually being phased in over here. This allows any manufacturers diagnostic tester to communicate with any vehicle allowing basic trouble code inspection and sensor monitoring but not more advanced features the specific tester for that brand allows.In the background you can also see our daihatsu ds-21 tester which is good but nowhere as powerful as the hiscan

:shock: i want one ;)

i must go on to ask, then all of hte ECU's must have a standard fitting plug for that lil gaget to fit into? or do you get something like a wireing adapter to fit each vehicle's ecu?

there fore we should be able to get a touch screen TFT screen that shows us all teh gear that your thing does - like the R34 GTR - that would be cool!!

Manual

Yeh the obd standard has a specific plug which most manufacturers have gone to, but there is still the odd one out where you need an adapter.
Obd stands for OnBoard Diagnostics and was bought in to allow monitoring of sensors and emission controls such as 02 sensors, cat convertors etc, this was due to tougher pollution laws and the need to more tightly govern vehicle emissions.
Did you know that alot of vehicles in the states will shut down if there running too rich or there catalytic convertor fails!
There is a slight variation in Europe called EOBD and they are now a few generations on with these standards.

doesnt answer my question of having a TFT screen mounted showing me the stats of my car!!

Manual

anythings possible if you got time and money :D
It would be very difficult though as you would have to design an interface to communicate with the ecu. The communication line between the diagnostic tester and ecu is a single wire serial connection and you would have to crack the software supplied with the hiscan to decipher/interpret the info sent(i'm only having a guess).

hmmm, i'll leave that on the drawing board then!!

I wish you could hook up a screen to your ECU to see all the engine vitals.

Would be very very interesting.

not saying i wont do it - just put it on hold for a little longer - sounds like a good idea though!!

Manual

not saying i wont do it - just put it on hold for a little longer - sounds like a good idea though!!

Manual

ill see if i can beat you too it ;)

the race is on!!

You guys have way to much money and time on your hands :lol:

This i have to see

well i dunno if i got enough money on hand - but other mods could be put on hold!!! haha - what say a 7" dash mounted scren - hmm, roof mounted drop down screen could be cool!! nah i liek teh dash mount one better - just above the trip computer screen bit!!

Manual :D

I'm a Software Engineer (well, one year of uni left), and I've been getting into smaller embedded micro's for a while now.

Here at work we are playing around with 20MHz micros reading/wriing values around the place. RS232-serial comms is trivial.. and USB is also quite possible.

I think I might just spend some time reading around the web about these diagnostic devices and what I can find out about them.
Very Interesting.

-Dan

Dude - keep me in the loop with whatever u find out - i wanna know how i can mount a screen to sho the stats of the car in dash some where!!

Manual

Grecy, I agree with manual, if you could pull something like that off id be willing to pay top bucks!

haha, you guys must hang around here all day !
I just left my desk here for 5mins to go chat to someone about it!

It's funny, I was just thinking a project like this could make some $$$.

We were talking about it, and basically, without some kind of specs as to what the Mitis ECU is expecting, it's going to be near impossible. (sure, people do stuff like this .. eg. XBox hacking.. but it would take forever).
All the electronic work we have ever done is on parts that we have detailed spec sheets for.. never anything 'unknown'. I'd love to get my hands on one of those tester units though..

I'll keep you posted

-Dan

Is it at all possible to get hold of a connector for a TJ magna to a computer + the software? I am extremly interested.. i would have a laptop in the car and hook it up to my screen that would be awsome!!! Can anyone tell me how i would go about it?? Even if i could get a circut diagram of the cable.. i can make it that would be excellent!

I didnt bother reading through the whole thread only the first post so dont get angry if this has already been said :badgrin: .

Anyway what it is every car with a engine computer from like 1990 onwards or somthing has an OBD or somthing like that port under the dash to do diagnostics , the computer's at your local mitsubishi service center cost about $8000 but you can actually buy a cable and software to hook a laptop upto this port and do the same thing for under $300 you can also get a cable and software to hook it upto a Palm PDA and it can actually log the data. It reads things such as air temp , throttle position speed , coolant temp all those sorts of things i was going to get one age's ago but couldnt be bothered but it would be a nice thing to play with.

Cheers

By any chance do you know where i could get the cable and software from????

Thats interesting widow, i might investigate this further. Would be great to have a PDA in the car with the engine vitals.

Do manufacturs ECU's log info or are they just a realtime processor?

I got told ages ago that Commodores log rpm and stuff like that so you can go back and see when someone was trashing a car. That's a lot of info if you're servicing every 10k km's.

If it helps Grecy i might be able to get a hold of the file they use to upgrade the software card of the MUT(mitsu diagnostic tester).
I can also geta hold of the pinouts of the obd connector,might take me a few weeks though.

That one that i saw didnt have anything you could access in the form of logged data except for error codes..

yeh aparently though theres the software and cable you can get overseas to run on a standard laptop but the company charges $15,000 for the software (its just what i was told).
Scubasteve - thats the exact same thing that i got to play with.. you are a lucky man :) haha
i dont see any reason why you couldnt actually hook something up to the ecu and use a pda or something but they actually handshake so you would have to snoop what was going on during this time when something like that hiscan was hooked up, then emulate it with a pda or laptop, unless you can get technical specs on the magna ecu.. even then, who would want to try it on your car unless you knew exactly what was going to happen? what if you **** up and fry your ECU? thats not nice..

hire car anyone?
Muhaha

Scubasteve,

Cool man, Any help you can provide would be excellent. (Pin-outs would be especially helpful so we can at least connect the thing and start snooping)

I'll see what I can dig up in the coming weeks.

-Dan

i thought about doing this (a data logger at least) for my final year project (if i ever get there!) but i found heaps of other had already done it.... a quick search on google....

http://www.obd-onboarddiagnostics.com
http://www.vetronix.com/diagnostics/scantest/asian.html
http://www.obdii.com/connector.html
http://www.nology.com/downloads.htm ~ this has a PDA version on it (and a dyno feature!)

they were just a few i found... look for OBD II if you wanna find more...

just reading the http://www.nology.com/downloads.htm (the instruction pdf file) and it rocks... you boys & girls would love it!!! (now all i need is a PDA!!)

http://www.nology.com/apply.html

I cant see magna or diamante in that list - so chances of it fitting our cars 0- ummm not good!!

Manual

Sweeeeeet!! Thanks Dingo for those links .
I already use a palm m515 for storing service bulletins,wireing diagrams, vehicle security codes and other frequently accessed stuff, that noloogy link looks very promising i might have to try and get that software cracked :badgrin: It would prove EXTREMELY handy.

Alright guys, here's what I have.

I've been reading alot about this in the past 2 days (not getting any work done.. hehe)

The EPA (in the US) forced all cars made in '96 and on to have what's call On-Board Diagnostics (OBD-II) as a way of connecting to the computer to (mostly) read sensor data. This only provided a 'read' function. Writing new values is at the maifacturers discression and is near impossible to crack.

Three comms standards were allocated for :
J1850 PWM
J1850 VPW
ISO9141/14230
which all basically do the same thing.. just in a different manner (kinda like using serial or USB for printing.. the comms are different, but they do the same thing)

Seeings my TE is a '96 I was wondering if it is OBD-II Compliant. A quick search revealed the J1962 connector. (in the TE at least it's near the drivers shin when sitting in the drivers seat. Get down in the foot-well and have a look up... connector just near the centre console)
After examining the connector, I determined it's using the ISO9141/14230 protocol. I also found a page on the web that said Diamante's since '96 use the ISO protocol. Another document said that all Mitsu's tested to date use the ISO protocol. I think this is a good indication we are using the ISO protocol.

Quick Note : The presence of the connector alone does not signify OBD-II compliance. In Europe cars were not required to have the standard until '98 (I think).... it's still possible Mitsu are using some other standard (I found a site that showed how to interface to earlier cars) so all of this might fall in a heap.

What does this all mean?
Basically I am going to build a connector to interface to a laptop. There are two ways I can do this.. buy a pre-programmed PIC Microcontroller that is designed for this.. and use some shareware software on a PC. OR Build a home-made job and use the freeware linux scantools software.
I'm currently planning to try both of these methods to see what I can learn.

From there I want to get these outputs and use another PIC Micro to drive an LCD for viewing in the car (I don't own a laptop, and wouldn't want to drive around with one in the car anyway) Basically I should be able to get all the nifty sensor readings onto a pretty LCD without too many problems.

Sensors that can be read:
The standard says that some sensors are required, and some are optional.. I havn't found a complete list yet (the list is in an ISO standards doc that costs $51US for 15 pages) but here are some of the things I am talking about monitoring:

*NOTE*: just becuase they are on the list doesn't mean the Manga will support them.. I won't know until I plug the thing in.
Also you can get alot about other things like the transmission, ABS sensors, traction control, Air Bag status... etc... heaps of stuff. I'll know when I plug it in.

coolant temp
rpm
throttle position (as a %) (COOL!!!)
vehicle speed
calculated load (kind of rough torque.. sorta dodgy)
ignition timing advance
manifold pressure
air flow (from the MAF)
fuel system status
short term fuel trim bank 1
long ......................................
short term....................bank 2
long..............................bank 2
intake air temp
coolant temp
fuel pressure
sec air status
pto status
O2 sensor1 bank 1 (and about 6 more O2 sensors around the place)
OBD type


What I need from you guys:
What I really want to find out is if anyone would be interested in purchasing such a thing if I did build them, and how much people would be willing to pay?.
(I'm already realizing I wouldn't be able to make them for less than $100)
(Keeping in mind that this thing will only read the data.. no modifying the ECU)

Also, to the guys that have used a device to monitor ECU's before (scubasteve and others) do you know if you were using OBD-II stuff?
Do you know if the Magna's are compliant?.
(supposidly if I call Mitsu they should be able to tell me... I'm expecting to get a big run-around)

That's all from me now, I'm going to get together the components I need in the next few days and etch out a circuit board and see what I can find..

-Dan

Sounds bloody good GRECY,i have a m8 who is a mitsu mech,might be able to get some info from him !

some one has done their homework :shock:

bloody impressive if you ask me, when you pull this off i believe that could lead to sales hooked up to say indash tv screens in the future :|

Keep up the good work and keep us all posted on it, as we will all be watching this topic 8)

Im sure some people would want a complete setup... Im after a plug and software to run off the incar computer.. I have th ecomputer and screen so would only want the software and plug.
Haydn

sorry mate i dont know if its compliant or not - he did say something about a standard but im not sure - next time i talk to him ill ask for you,,
Scubasteve might be able to help out more on this one :)
GuRu

TBuTcher,

I can make you a cable if you want (has to have a circuit board in there.. mostly an isolator to make sure no spikes do anything nasty in either direction).
There are two software options with this cable.. you can run opensource linux software (command line) or shareware windows software with a pretty GUI and graphing abilities... easy as.

Tell me if you want it and I'll get back to you with a price.

(I think it would be like $75ish.. Mostly becuase the J1962 connector is $20 US and the optoisolator is not cheap either)

GTV6,

Definately quiz your Mitsu mate... I have two questions:

1. Are Magnas (TE on) OBD-II compliant?
and if so..
2. Do they use the ISO 9141 standard? (I'm pretty sure they do)
Thanks man.

Others,

Anyone interested in buying one of these things?
Are they just gunna be too damn expensive for what they do?
I still think it will be pretty cool to get a digital readout of all this stuff.

-Dan

i reckon it would be cool!!

BUt i cant justify putting a computer in my car just yet!! especially just to watch the revs!!

Manual

Count me in!! i would want it so i can hook it up to my current screen i agree that carring arround a computer could b a pain.. i do have a mini laptop which i dont use.. but yer i would prefer something that could hook up to the screen through an RCA cable.. Hopefully the interface which is displayed is nice..

Hey guys....sorry I don't really know any of you guys, but try to check out www.obdii.com ....it may help you guys out a bit more.

I downloaded a virtual scan tool a while ago, but I need to get a cable made up to try it out yet...being a software developer, I've been toying with the idea of writing my own for a few weeks, but need some spare time and money to research it some more first :)

From the TE onwards, the Magna has been OBD-11 compliant using the ISO 9141 standard.

Grecy:
Alot of vehicles in australia implement many of the obd standards(such as the connector) but do not actually support OBDII communication. Mitsubishi do not use it here in oz unfortunately:cry:
I can definately get a hold of the file used in updating the rom pack for the mut tester, maybe the communication protocol/system could be extracted from this?

How hard would it be in constructing a data link cable for a palm m515?
I have software but need the cable .

Will try and investigate this subject more. :)

ive got a m505
and would be interested in this
:)

v64 check this out then http://www.nology.com/pdadyno.html
It's the trial/demo software for your palm.
The link was posted up here before by Dingo.

My local Mitsibishi tech told me the Magna is fully OBD-11 compliant :(

Sounds like we need to know for certain if the Magna's are OBD-II compliant or not... I knew we'd get the run around.

<rant>
Why is it that people never like telling you tech details?.. you ask and all they can say is "why do you want to do *that*?" why don't they just say "I don't actaully know, but if you talk to Bob, he might" or "that sounds like a cool project, I hope I can help" grrrrr.
</rant>

Scubasteve,

While I appreciate your efforts to get the ROM updater, I really don't think it will help. We need to know what comms are being used, and if it's not OBD-II I fear we are shit-out-of-luck.

Also, constucting the cable is a synch. I can make one for you, or point you in the right direction if you like. I'll be making one soon (starting now) so then we'll know if we have OBD-II or not.

-Dan

grecy, i bet that obdII is being used for the simple fact that it would be built in to the mistsu ECU (why would they bother making two different ones for the US and AUS??? especially when OBDII makes it so easy for them to diagnose)

i havent looked overly hard but if someone comes up with free OBDII software for PC's, for god sakes POST IT!

dingo,
I've found heaps of free OBD software for PC's.. it's easy to find.

It depends on what cable you are going to use to interface to the thing..

If you are using a pretty simple cable with only an opto-isolator and are implimenting all the comms protocols in-software try:
http://freediag.sourceforge.net/ for linux
and
(one for windows that I can't find the link for right now) its free tho.

if you are using an ELM based cable (where the intelligence is mostly in the cable)
try
http://www.scantool.net/software.htm#download

If you need help with the cables, just ask

-Dan

That's pretty much what a Mits tech told me!!!

I talked to the guy i know who does all this sort of thing and all cars after 94 have obd2, but all this does is shows emission control. obd2 only specifies the connector and emission control it does not specify a standard for the sensors and other information. He is going to ask for me cos aparently he knows a guy who writes this software, but the information if i get it is going to be third hand.
will let you know what i find out
GuRu

wow!! no way!.. u saying i can hook up my laptop n crank that Program with the right cables connected to my computer n watch the stats ROll??


tell me more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:D :D :D what cabbles can i use... whats the interface?

Yeah...pretty much!

I had some crazy ideas for mine which included a similar idea...until my girlfriend found out about it....

To use her words after I finished putting the stereo and subs in it.... "No more fixing the car!"

Ah well...I don't mind...she's cool now. Anyway, it gives me more time to plan/research it some more first :)

hey! just wondering what hardware do i need??

com cable that connects strait to the ""computer""n the ""computer inthe car??"
and thats it??

lol
or do i need that weird looking box converter...
dam it i realy should ask my dad about this stuff... im interested nowl...
im gowing to hook up a PDA to it :D

grecy, i bet that obdII is being used for the simple fact that it would be built in to the mistsu ECU (why would they bother making two different ones for the US and AUS??? especially when OBDII makes it so easy for them to diagnose)

i havent looked overly hard but if someone comes up with free OBDII software for PC's, for god sakes POST IT!

The us models have extra sensors for emission reasons eg extra o2 sensor after the cat to determine it's working, these inputs are not present on aus cars. It may be the same ecu, but a different software version so may not have full obdII compliancy.

Guys,
Do you know if you are able to bridge a couple of the pins in the OBD-II connector so that you can get the check engine light to flash out any error codes that are in the computer?

Cheers
Paul

Guys,
Do you know if you are able to bridge a couple of the pins in the OBD-II connector so that you can get the check engine light to flash out any error codes that are in the computer?

Cheers
Paul

No the little connector on the firewall is to do that.

Cheers

this site (http://www.obd-2.com/dlc.html) shows we might be in luck for OBD-II compliance.

While I realise a '96 D is not identical to a '96 Magna, I'd be surprized if Mitsu changed them dramatically.

I'll have a cable soon enough so then we'll know.

Also, GuRu,
I know that OBD-II is really only for emission control info. That is why one of the data-packets you can get is a list of all the features that this particular car supports. So basically, as soon as I plug it in, I'll know what sensors I can sneak a look at.

-Dan

magna TE 1996
uses iso im pritty sure

well If someone can make a conector for a laptop, and the necessary program to conect to the ecu and just READ things like throtle position and stuff like that I'd prolly be interested in purchuasing 1 as long as it's under $100. (ohh and it needs to be user friendlly :D )

What ever happened to this idea? would be a sensational diagnostic/tuning aid

:lol:

I built an OBD-II ISO interface for my car.. but it doesn't work on my '96 TE.
From what I can tell, it's because the car is not compliant.

I was going to bring it on the last cruise and try it out on a newer Magna, in the hope it would be compliant. Hopefully I can borrow a laptop.

It's a shame that it's just sitting in my shed.

-Dan