is the only difference between the 3.0 and 3.5 manual gearbox the 1st ratio? i read elsewhere that the 3.5 unit was a heavier duty gearbox, and the reason the tf manual sports was not released with the 3.5 litre motor which was already being used in the kf verada was that the 3.0 gearbox was not strong enough. can anyone confirm?


heres the quote from the autospeed review - http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Mitsubishi-Magna-Sport-35-Sports-Mode/A_111389/article.html

"But everyone wondered why the TF Sport wasn't offered with the larger 3.5 litre V6, an engine already fitted to the auto-only luxo Verada. The reason for its absence? - Mitsubishi didn't have a 5 speed manual that could handle the 3.5's torque - and they weren't going to offer an auto-only 3.5 Sport! Two years later, the TH has been released with a beefed-up manual 5 speed."

The first gear and final drive are different. The reason it "cannot handle" the torque is it will break traction with zero clutch use due to the lower first gear and higher final drive.

The magna gearboxes are near bulletproof, however the diffs are made of glass. The diffs are shared through all models.

You know I really should learn to just turn off the computer and go and punch some concrete walls to alleviate my frustration when I read BS like the post above

Glass Diff hey, ever had a Subaru?????

The only time that a person will go through multiple diffs is when they drive like a cock head, one broken diff is fair enough, two is getting silly, 4 or 5 is just either that someone does not know how to drive or should not be allowed to drive.

I have NEVER broken a 3.0l diff, even with my 3.5 engines, why? Because I know how to drive, I know how to respect my car and I dont side step the cluth for each gear change

There are many members here on AMC who over the years have driven the cars harder than designed to and not had issues. There are some who have outright thrashed the cars and they have broken, and there is a reason for this. YOu cannot make stupid comments like "glass diff" in a Magna when you do not use the item as it was designed to be used. Remember, one was a demo derby diff and was screwed from the start.......

Now back to OP, the strentgh of the internals is identical, most parts inside are the same part number. The main difference is the 3.0 having a 3.9 ratio and the 3.5 having the 3.7 ratio, remember this is crownwheel and pinion and not the diff centre. The diff centre is the same as the auto one and can be interchanged. Wonder why teh auto's dont break these glass diffs, that is because you cant constantly side step a clutch

You have to admit Magna diffs are nowhere near as strong as say Commodore diffs. They are fairly easy to break. I have broken one, brendan has broken 2, I had one DOA in a box I was given, 03TLVRX broke one, Presti broke one, Rhino has broken multiple, EGO has broken multiple (including LSD's). The list goes on, OP was asking for weak point - In a magna, it is the diff.

No OP was asking about what the differences were, the diff is not one of the differences :)

I know many have broken diffs, ego can not even be mentioned as has always been a highly modded car. Rhino will admit freely he gives his a very hard time so does not count, I have seen you drive Dean, you drive hard and your gear changes are not exactly diff friendly so gain cannot comment there, Brendan I dont know about so the list is quickly shrinking

For a factory car, they were a good reliable unit and if driven as a family car I have no doubt that you would get many more k's than a commor, I can not even see how on earth you can say a std commo diff is strong given that I hear more noisy commo diffs on the road than quiet ones

Killed the diff in the magna i had BUT i will easily admit that was my own fault and it took one night out being silly

Op was asking about weaknesses between the bOxes. I know it is the same diff but it should be pointed out. In my case it was caused by shock loading by cheap axle tramping Chinese tyres. Your favorite brand Mal - triangles! Since swapping to ku31's I have had zero issues.

Don't forget broken suspension!

and no bumpstops lol

Only have heard of the 'glass geabox' on subaru's when it came to guys who modded their cars high up and then thrashed them. Have a mate with a WRX (after the blob eye, when the new grill came in) and I asked him had he had any issues. He said "I've done 4000rpm clutch dumps, the car is awesome" Still people on here seem to hate them.

Lmao dean you can't count Brendan as he only drove your car for a few days and for no. 2, he was deliberately flatshifting to **** his box up on the SLO-24L

Why do you blame parts on your car, when tramping could have easily avoided by non abusive launches/driving. My suspension is shithouse and tramps when I do hard launches. Does that mean I do lots of hard launches?? No. I have this thing called mechanical sympathy.

Is it so hard to take responsiblity?? And btw Mal, i reckon that demo derby box was fine tbh, it drove fine before the diff blew up

However you couldn't find 6th gear ben. Good work.

Funny, I couldn't find 6th gear, but I did find time to swap your gearboxes when they blew. I had maybe an hour worth of driving manual before I converted my car to manual(and 30 bucks through that racing arcade machine with the shifter and clutch) and I've had no issues.

I also manual and diff drive and no blow up. :)

It really does come down to how you drive.

I have had 13 Magna's (7 of which were manual and my current Ralliart which is manual) and i have never blown one of these "glass diffs".

The difference ? I don't cut corners and i don't thrash my cars. Even my first Ralliart (the car now owned by TZABOY) was putting out over 160kws at the wheels when i owned it and over 200 in Jase's hands and the gearbox is still original and never been broken ion any way.

Oh, to add to the argument, i have owned a WRX with 227kw at all fours and a WRX STI with 213kw at all four wheels and i never broke any gearbox parts on that either.

And in case you think my cars are never driven or i am a grandpa behind the wheel, i ran a 14.1 in the Ralliart and a 12.2 in the WRX and 12.6 in the STI..........i guess i just know how to drive !!!

Lmao dean you can't count Brendan as he only drove your car for a few days and for no. 2, he was deliberately flatshifting to **** his box up on the SLO-24L

Why do you blame parts on your car, when tramping could have easily avoided by non abusive launches/driving. My suspension is shithouse and tramps when I do hard launches. Does that mean I do lots of hard launches?? No. I have this thing called mechanical sympathy.

Is it so hard to take responsiblity?? And btw Mal, i reckon that demo derby box was fine tbh, it drove fine before the diff blew up

Ben I'm going to put this one very simply. Cheap tyres were causing an extreme case of tramping with moderate (not hard) launches (approx 2500rpm slip). As soon as those tyres were replaced with good quality items it stopped and I have had zero issues since.

I stand by the fact that magna diffs are weak, hell even you aren't very confident in yours - You've said this numerous times when asked why you keep "spare" gearboxes.

Dan, the RA prototype Jase now owns does not count - it has a factory LSD.

My point in all this is that - driven hard, the magna diff is weak and prone to breaking. I don't care about driving like a grandma, if I wanted to do that I'd have kept it auto.

Ben, don't tell me you drive like a grandma either. There has been a couple of occasions we have smelled your clutch over a distance of 30km it was ridden so badly.

Look at this pic and tell me the diff isn't weak.

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp271/db_newman/27749fae.jpg

Need more? Lathiat killed his diff at the drags with one hard launch.

OP asked about integrity of magna boxes - here it is, both gearboxes are bulletproof however the diffs are weak. the 3l box is more prone to wheelspin (or with incorrect suspension/tyres - even worse: axel tramp).

If you want a strong box, have an LSD fitted and maintain good quality tyres.

Not saying I don't agree with you Dean but that picture is probably a bad example since it came out of a track Magna with very aggressive cams and mods.

Fingers crossed nothing happens to my box!

Not saying I don't agree with you Dean but that picture is probably a bad example since it came out of a track Magna with very aggressive cams and mods.

Fingers crossed nothing happens to my box!

That diff came out of a second hand gearbox from Riverside Spares. It still had warranty but I could not find the receipt.

I heard somewhere there was a slight difference in the case hardening on the gears between 3 and 3.5, or perhaps it was between earlier and later ones?

its easy drive the car how it was designed to be driven, and you wont have to many issues, if you give a standard car hard time your got to expect to break things

Well i can say from expierience about magna gearboxes they cant take a heavy duty clutch thats for shore especially doing chirpies all the time that broke 3 gearboxes that wasnt even doing hard take offs. Now with a standard clutch same driving style and 20km later gearbox hasnt broken cars fine no burnouts or hard launches but chirpies and skiddies taking of out of corners seems to be fine so really i reccoment with magnas dont get hd clutches they cant handle the extra shock.

Ben I'm going to put this one very simply. Cheap tyres were causing an extreme case of tramping with moderate (not hard) launches (approx 2500rpm slip). As soon as those tyres were replaced with good quality items it stopped and I have had zero issues since.

I stand by the fact that magna diffs are weak, hell even you aren't very confident in yours - You've said this numerous times when asked why you keep "spare" gearboxes.

Dan, the RA prototype Jase now owns does not count - it has a factory LSD.

My point in all this is that - driven hard, the magna diff is weak and prone to breaking. I don't care about driving like a grandma, if I wanted to do that I'd have kept it auto.

Ben, don't tell me you drive like a grandma either. There has been a couple of occasions we have smelled your clutch over a distance of 30km it was ridden so badly.

Look at this pic and tell me the diff isn't weak.

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp271/db_newman/27749fae.jpg

Need more? Lathiat killed his diff at the drags with one hard launch.

OP asked about integrity of magna boxes - here it is, both gearboxes are bulletproof however the diffs are weak. the 3l box is more prone to wheelspin (or with incorrect suspension/tyres - even worse: axel tramp).

If you want a strong box, have an LSD fitted and maintain good quality tyres.

Admin Edit: This post has been removed due to breach of AMC rules, however to retain thread flow and content it can be noted that jesse_james disagreed with Life's above post and questioned his knowledge & experience.

Admin Edit: This post has been removed due to breach of AMC rules, however to retain thread flow and content it can be noted that jesse_james disagreed with Life's above post and questioned his knowledge & experience.

Lol harsh bud. He has half an idea mate

Ben I'm going to put this one very simply. Cheap tyres were causing an extreme case of tramping with moderate (not hard) launches (approx 2500rpm slip). As soon as those tyres were replaced with good quality items it stopped and I have had zero issues since.

I stand by the fact that magna diffs are weak, hell even you aren't very confident in yours - You've said this numerous times when asked why you keep "spare" gearboxes.

Dan, the RA prototype Jase now owns does not count - it has a factory LSD.

My point in all this is that - driven hard, the magna diff is weak and prone to breaking. I don't care about driving like a grandma, if I wanted to do that I'd have kept it auto.

Ben, don't tell me you drive like a grandma either. There has been a couple of occasions we have smelled your clutch over a distance of 30km it was ridden so badly.

Look at this pic and tell me the diff isn't weak.

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp271/db_newman/27749fae.jpg

Need more? Lathiat killed his diff at the drags with one hard launch.

OP asked about integrity of magna boxes - here it is, both gearboxes are bulletproof however the diffs are weak. the 3l box is more prone to wheelspin (or with incorrect suspension/tyres - even worse: axel tramp).

If you want a strong box, have an LSD fitted and maintain good quality tyres.

What an absolute load of bull shit, I have read crap and I have read crap but this crap is more suited to another forum I know of where people tend to just taks crap and try and bring down people behind their back with lies and oh yes, crap

If you are getting axle tramp then it is YOU that is causing it as YOU know it will happen so YOU control it. Your car does not wake up in the mornign and go "you know what Dean, I am a real tramp and I am going to break a diff today because I can" It is the person with the foot on the go pedal driving a car with apparently "crap" tyres with "cheap crap" coil overs because they wont pay a reasonable price for a reasonable product and then of course blames the STOCK STANDARD diff that will not put up with the sort of punishment it was NOT designed to take in the first place......and then you have a sook at others stating they have personally insulted you???? Give me a ****ing break.......

You use a standard box behine any engine it was not designed to be used behind and guess what, it will break, you can compensate if you want by blaming everythign and everyone else but at the end of the day it is you behind the wheel, it is you who abuses it, it is you who breaks it.

Dingers, thank you for an objective and truthful comment about being on a track and the engine and as you state it is a bad example as agian is a std diff being used in a way it was not designed to

And yes Dean, I do like the Triangle Tyres for my 4x4 which has a top speed of like nothing!!!!!!!! and is only for carting heavy loads. On a car I intended to even think about driving in any sort of spririted way I would not use them. On a Mums Taxi they are ideal and for the record very much used tyre.

I heard somewhere there was a slight difference in the case hardening on the gears between 3 and 3.5

I remember reading this somewhere as well, might even have been Mal that posted the info although not certain.

So, in answering the OP is the below info correct ?

1st gear ratio, final drive ratio and different 'treatment' to the gear assy (case hardening?).

Hey Mal, just a correction, the diff in that pic came out of another box.
The diff I was talking about came out of a free box I was given that came out of a track Magna that Dean installed and realised was dead as well.

I thought the pic he used was the track Magna pic but it wasn't it seems.

I was also told the case hardening was different and then told by Steve Knight and someone else that this was in fact a myth, this I have sort of confirmed when a few of the more common parts also share part numbers with the parts in the 3.5 and or have in some cases been superseeded to the 3.5 part

Dont know if the case hardening is different but it is sure has not been an issue anyway.

At the end of the day, the boxes are pretty much the same, most of the 3.0 boxes are much older and have been punished longer, the diff centres are the same so there is no strength difference, have seen many a 3.5 box with a dead diff from abuse as well. So if you want to drive reasonably hard but can respect your mechanicals then does not matter which one you get. If you want to drive hard but are not real savvy with proper gear changes etc, get a LSD and tuffen it all up a bit

So is the only upgrade you can do an lsd? how does this make the diff stronger?

you already have one Hayden so no upgrades for you !!!

you already have one Hayden so no upgrades for you !!!

Yes but i must admit i suck at driving manual. Even today with the clutch fully in the gearstick kinda got stuck half into 2nd and made a horrible crunching sound? Scares me. Hope i'm not destroying shit.

FWIW people silly enough to convert GTO/3000GT's to FWD are known to blow them up given some slicks + hard clutch.

So is the only upgrade you can do an lsd? how does this make the diff stronger?

limited slip diff, its a replacement diff, and since the limited slip part is mainly useful when driving the car harder, its likely a bit beefier than the standard one.

Oh how i love the sheer guesses in these forums lol

Lsd can be made up of various different make ups but either way they remobe the weak point of the std diff or single spinner. The pins which hold in the spider gears which are the gears you see in deans pic. Is these pins that usually let go and bring it all to a grinding halt