Hi all. I'm a newbie to the site and am after some free advice:happy:

I've currently got a 98 challenger which has been a good car,but it's starting to get a bit rough,so I'm looking at a cheapish upgrade. I bought the challenger when I was living in the NT,but now being back in Melbourne I hardly ever put it in 4wd unless I'm stuck in a boggy boat ramp,etc.

Therefore,I'm looking at station wagons. Initially I was thinking the VY/VZ commodore,or BA falcon. Then I decided to just do a quick search of reviews of the magna equivalent. It fared as well if not better than the above,and what's more,cheaper to buy which is a plus.

My only issue,is the towing factor. I do quite a bit as I'm an avid fisherman. Therefore I would probably do 15 longish towing trips a year,and 30-40 short trips to the bay towing. My boat however isn't huge,it's only 3.85 meters...sorry I have no idea how heavy it is.
So my question is,do you think a magna wagon will do the job for me. Especially considering it will be 2nd hand at around the 110k-150k km mark,am I likely to face any major dilemma's?

any other feedback feel free.

Thanks for your help

Ben

Ive towed 6X5 I think it was? Has 12 retaining wall sleepers and towed with ease (with 298Kg at the ball), back end was a little sloppy, there was a set of springs with airbag shocks that you pump up at a servo on eBay? Someone here got them I think, the wagons can take alot of weight and tow with ease, or you could also beef up the rear suspension :)

Ive got a 3 litre sedan and yesterday i had a trailer on (7x4) loaded with about 750kg on sand. Took off no worries. Didnt struggle.

But it did give me some wicked ideas of how lower i wanna lower it!

If you get a fwd magna try and get a manual for towing i guess, gives more controll over power to the wheels with heavy loads. If awd it doesn't really matter and both will tow it pretty easily.(I don't think the wagons came with awd and manual) as a combination anyway.

If you are towing alot, it's my understanding that an external transmission cooler is recommended - but otherwise you should be fine

get some heavy duty springs in the rear that will handle the extra weight alot easier

I'll play devil's advocate and suggest that a BA is probably a better car for what you're wanting to do with it. I don't like the idea of towing a boat trailer up a boat ramp using a front wheel drive car as the weight is not over the driving wheels.

I don't think manual is better for towing on boat ramps, manual, yes you have control but hill start on a slippery boat ramp and your spinning, with auto, it's alot more gentle on the takeoff and problay more grip, i have alot more grip in my auto magna then what I did in my manual lancer, there was a thread not long ago manual VS auto

I don't think manual is better for towing on boat ramps, manual, yes you have control but hill start on a slippery boat ramp and your spinning, with auto, it's alot more gentle on the takeoff and problay more grip, i have alot more grip in my auto magna then what I did in my manual lancer, there was a thread not long ago manual VS auto

This is user error, There shouldn't be any difference between manual and auto when it comes to towing on hill start on a boat ramp.

A TJ wagon with a 1500kg tow bar set up will be fine. If the rear suspension sits a bit low when the trailer is hooked up either fit a stronger set of springs or a set of pump up air shocks. Launching & recovering a boat shouldn't be a problem when using a concrete ramp. If you intend beach launching the boat then stick with the challenger 4 x 4.

Cheers

Hey mate I got 2001 3.5L TJ Wagon with 137,000kms about 8 months ago for $4300, I was looking at the same cars you were but most were too dear or in poor condition. I never thought much of Magna's until I got this one! It's great on the fuel, easy to drive & the V6 is smooth as! I'm looking to fit towbar soon so I can tow my boat as well but have been told to put stiffer springs in the back &/or put airbags in the back that you can pump up & down as you need it. Only thing i need to do to my Wagon is shocks which is common is heavier car of it's age.

If you do any towing at all with an auto, make sure you have a tranny oil cooler fitted.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Any ideas what it would set me back to get a towbar and fitted? Also beefing up the suspension?

Learnt the lesson on having no transmission cooler in my old VR commodore when towing the boat up to Darwin,was under fairly exreme conditions and load though....

I got a quote for new Boge shocks & new king springs fitted plus bumpstops & it was $1000..

& got a price for new towbar fitted & wired & that was $300..



Mate your lucky you can go to Mits-Fix down there in victoria & he could do you up price for all that..

Check this site out: http://www.allintowbars.com.au/

I have one of their 1500kg (150kg down load on the ball) setups on the AWD. The wifes TJ executive had the same set up fitted at the Mits factory

Cheers

If you ask on this forum whether you should get a magna, falcon or commodore, you will likely end up with a seriously biased view (many in this forum refer disparagingly to the Fords and Holdens as 'Falcodores' -- which is exactly the same prejudice that magna owners have had to put up with for years from Ford and Holden fanboy's).

If you want a car for towing, out of the three -- the BA falcon wagon is the better choice.
- it has a longer wheelbase
- it has rear leaf spring suspension (much better for towing than IRS)
- has a higher non-braked towing capacity (750kg for the falcon opposed to 500kg for the magna)
- has an inline-6 that provides more torque and power in the lower rev range
- is rear wheel drive

You will obviously get magna owners who say they have no trouble towing, and I don't doubt this is the case -- but the BA wagon is far better suited to towing which I think was your original question.
If you are towing heavy loads, you will want to upgrade the suspension to heavy duty and upgrade the brakes.

FYI -- Common faults with BA's include brake shudder, corrosion of transmission cooler resulting in mixed coolant and transmission oil (big dollars to repair) and diff problems.
Having said that, the only 'significant' fault I have experienced with my 2002 BA wagon which has currenty done 120000km is brake shudder.

If you do purchase a BA, I would recommend fitting an external transmission cooler and use after market rotors & pads when its time to replace the brakes.

A 3.85 mtr boat being towed by a TJ wagon shouldn't be a problem. If you read post number 9 from this thread:
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88357 you'll see why.

Cheers

@Magna diver
Yeah I agree, TJ wagon shouldn't be a problem.
In general, the falcon wins hands down for towing, but your point about launching is interesting... However, the falcon has more torque at lower revs than the commodore so it's less likely to get bogged and suffer the wheel spin you talked about in your launching/recovery example.

More torque doesn't mean less change of being bogged. The only thing that determines being bogged would be fwd or rwd as the rwd would be closer to the water.

If you do purchase a BA, I would recommend fitting an external transmission cooler and use after market rotors & pads when its time to replace the brakes.

quite right, absolutely on the money re the cooler and rotors for Falcon. I've owned Magna and Falcon wagons at the same time; both are IMHO excellent cars. The big 6 of the falcon is v good for towing.

Thanks everyone.

I've pretty much ruled out the BA's. Too many bad reviews on the transmission,and supposedly up for a replacement around the 170k mark... The fuel efficiency isn't as good either,unless I get one on LPG,but finding one with low kms is the issue.
Magna 75%... leads the betting

@ Jonesy,

If you have time, the self-serve wreckers could be a good source of a towbar for cheap - should be plenty of smashed wagons with towbar to choose from. Some of the Melb self-serve places have a website system that you can check what cars are in-stock and what bits are left on those cars. Mal (MadMagna in here) is operator of Mits-Fix in eastern suburbs of Melb, and have always found him to give good advice about the Magna's. He is a sponsor in this Club/Forums as well.

Hey jonesy, I have actually found my '02 BA wagon more economical than my KF verada... i think the TJ is more economical than the KF, but still it's food for thought.
Regarding the BA, Ford released a petrol version of the car and a lpg version of the car (no option for factory dual fuel) and I have heard bad things about the dedicated egas engine (although I have no personal experience with it).

@HaydenVRX

The only thing that determines being bogged would be fwd or rwd as the rwd would be closer to the water.

is an incorrect statement...

A number of things influence whether a car is likely to get bogged (ie: FWD/RWD/AWD/4WD, tyre size, tyre tread, etc... and also torque).

Imagine a car on wet sand...
- rear wheel spinning without much torque = digging into sand and getting bogged.
- rear wheel spinning with more torque = more likely to get traction = less likely to get bogged.


EDIT:
Just though of something else jonesy.
Be aware of where the electrical connector for the tow bar is mounted...
On my BA wagon the factory position for the elec connector is directly onto the underside of the bumper. When towing a load one day out of my driveway, the car bottomed out at the rear and the electrical connector ripped out (damaging the bumper) and I had to rewire the trailer and have a plate welded to the towbar to mount the electrical conenctor instead.

Don't know where the factory mount position for the elec connector is on the TJ, but you want to make sure it's not some stupid place like directly onto the bumper held on by a couple screws like the ford.

Cheers

i have 400kgs in the back of my TJ wagon daily and with that in i towed a 2.5ton trailer from adelaide to melbourne and back twice, no problem...

apart from trying to take off uphill in the wet.. there might have been some red lining involved!!! :P

An update to the thread. I joined the magna family...

Bought a 2002 TJ advance,done 110k. In good condition,and go's well. Had the added bonus of already having a tow bar,and what's more it looks to have had little use as the ball has no wear marks on it....

So now for the transmission cooler and suspension...which will be put on hold for a while,as the tinny is going under some major repairs

Now just to have to sell the challenger...

Hey jonesy, I have actually found my '02 BA wagon more economical than my KF verada... i think the TJ is more economical than the KF, but still it's food for thought.
Regarding the BA, Ford released a petrol version of the car and a lpg version of the car (no option for factory dual fuel) and I have heard bad things about the dedicated egas engine (although I have no personal experience with it).



You can not in any way compare a car made in 1998 and designed long before to a car made in 2002 and designe not all that long before which also comes under a totally different emmissions regulation

You can not in any way compare a car made in 1998 and designed long before to a car made in 2002 and designe not all that long before which also comes under a totally different emmissions regulation

I agree with you Mal. I probably shouldn't have been as flippant in comparing cars of differring vintage. Having said that... did you notice my statement:
... i think the TJ is more economical than the KF
I said this because I realised comparing two cars of different vintage was somewhat dodgy -- but this is what we do when in the market for a second hand car...

I would point out though that the AU falcon (1998), and as an aside, the 2002 BA falcon are both more economical than the 3.5 KF (1998) -- my point being that at the same point in time (1998), the current model falcon was more economical than the current model third gens. I was making this point so that noone fell into the trap of assuming that all third gens are more economical than their rival falcon counterparts... because this simply isn't the case.

I do however disagree that it's unreasonable to compare the TJ to the BA.
The TJ was released in 2001 and the BA in 2002. The TL was released in 2003 and BF in 2005.

This means that the TJ and BA were direct competitors for at least a year. Hence, it is completely reasonable to compare these two makes.

Hi guys,

Just joined this forum as I am looking at taking on my late father in laws 2000 TJ wagon, auto with 150,000KMS on it.

I have a need to be able to tow a braked 1300KG (trailer with race car) with perhaps another 100KG of tools, wheels and fuel in the back of the wagon.

Has anybody ever towed this kind of load before?

I can't remember off the top of my head but there is a tow bar on the car and I am sure a sticker under the tailgate that says something about a max load of 1500KG. I do not know if the car has any suspension mods or a tranny cooler.

Any help is much appreciated!!

- it has rear leaf spring suspension (much better for towing than IRS)


TJ magna wagon doesn't have IRS, it utilizes a sturdy torsion beam setup

TJ magna wagon doesn't have IRS, it utilizes a sturdy torsion beam setup

Thanks Dave for correcting this, I didn't actually realise that about the wagon suspension.
Isn't torsion beam suspension semi-indepedent though...?

In a way yes, since the trailing arms are connected via the beam there is a certain degree of independence. Nonetheless it isn't IRS

I would point out though that the AU falcon (1998), and as an aside, the 2002 BA falcon are both more economical than the 3.5 KF (1998) -- my point being that at the same point in time (1998), the current model falcon was more economical than the current model third gens. I was making this point so that noone fell into the trap of assuming that all third gens are more economical than their rival falcon counterparts... because this simply isn't the case.

I will really like to see a BA/AU falcon do mid 7s to mid 8s on the freeway and high 9s to mid 10s city (speaking L/100 of course). I know for a fact my magna can do it, but I've never seen a falcon go below 9. Are you factoring in that your KF may be less economical then others (possibly due to dirty injectors, burnt o2, or other sensors throwing it out of wack)?

Thanks Dave for correcting this, I didn't actually realise that about the wagon suspension.
Isn't torsion beam suspension semi-indepedent though...?

Actually no as what one wheel does, the other does as well, no different to a live rear end say on an old falcon etc etc. one wheel moves as does the other one

To be honest the suspension set up on the back end of a wagon is quite crap, is the only real dissapointing thing about the wagon back ends. Are very hard to lower without getting a very bad ride, believe me have been there many times and had to work it all out without cuting bump stops as many do. They are fun in the wet or on a track as I found out at taielem bend at mmx, like ot get the back end out when you push it a bit and very easy to bring back as well. Not real good either at taking a lot of load but then again, the rest of the car makes up for where the rear suspension misses out

Reason Mits did this I assume was to keep the cargo area nice and big

Hi guys,

Just joined this forum as I am looking at taking on my late father in laws 2000 TJ wagon, auto with 150,000KMS on it.

I have a need to be able to tow a braked 1300KG (trailer with race car) with perhaps another 100KG of tools, wheels and fuel in the back of the wagon.

Has anybody ever towed this kind of load before?

I can't remember off the top of my head but there is a tow bar on the car and I am sure a sticker under the tailgate that says something about a max load of 1500KG. I do not know if the car has any suspension mods or a tranny cooler.

Any help is much appreciated!!

With this question, I did set up a TF to tow a 4 x 4 camper trailer, a family of 5 and a boot full of batteries and fridges 26000k's around Australia. This was done by using King STD height springs and Monroe Pump Up dampers, I used one of the tie down points in the cargo area for the adjusting valve and it worked wll

With the trailer on the car initially the car sat on the bump stops when the back was also loaded, when changed to the above set up was sitting nice and flat. We also fitted a good trans cooler and that kept the trans happy When they set off the car had done 270k's already, aside from 1 broken window and a starter motor issue, not so much as a flat tyre for the entire trip which included a lot of driving through the outback

Actually no as what one wheel does, the other does as well, no different to a live rear end say on an old falcon etc etc. one wheel moves as does the other one

Thanks for the explanation Mal.


I will really like to see a BA/AU falcon do mid 7s to mid 8s on the freeway and high 9s to mid 10s city (speaking L/100 of course). I know for a fact my magna can do it, but I've never seen a falcon go below 9. Are you factoring in that your KF may be less economical then others (possibly due to dirty injectors, burnt o2, or other sensors throwing it out of wack)?

I've always understood the AU (98) to be more economical than the KF (98) -- certainly my BA is more economical than my KF and I thought the AU was more economical than the BA....

The figures on redbook.com.au appear to back this up, but if these figures are accurate, I don't know... but the TJ is more economical than KF, AU & BA I think...

I'm pretty sure my KF Verada is fine (I bought it last year with just 59,000km on the clock + all service receipts & logbook services + timing belt done, etc)... and it's not like I'm getting bugger all out of a tank, it's just that the BA is more economical, which I believe is in line with what is expected.

Holden touted for months about how their brand new SIDI powered commodores could go from Sydney to Melbourne on one tank. My 8 year old TJ magna could do that with a 900km average usage of 6.9l/100km ;)

Would a falcon manage those averages?

Thanks for the help Madmagna!!

What sort of cost is involved in the rear suspension? Around the $1500 mark?

Holden touted for months about how their brand new SIDI powered commodores could go from Sydney to Melbourne on one tank. My 8 year old TJ magna could do that with a 900km average usage of 6.9l/100km ;)

Would a falcon manage those averages?

Absolutely! If you pushed it there and back... lol

Seriously though, that's pretty damn good fuel economy.

Maybe I should have gotten a KJ instead of a KF... but I wouldn't get rid of the KF now, I love it too much lol.
The magnas/veradas were seriously some of the nicest, most underated cars ever made.

Agreed, I miss mine sometimes

Holden touted for months about how their brand new SIDI powered commodores could go from Sydney to Melbourne on one tank. My 8 year old TJ magna could do that with a 900km average usage of 6.9l/100km ;)

Would a falcon manage those averages?

That's pretty close to what my new TJ purchase does. I'm doing the Melbourne to Sydney drive in a few weeks ,so I'm keen too see whether I can make it on the one tank just to give some interest in the drive....

To work from Frankston to Noble Park I'm averaging 7.7,which is a combination of freeway/urban. Impressed

I've towed the tinny once so far and it was around 10-11 on the freeway,not so good.