Hay all

Just a couple of questions. Wat are the 3.5l engines capable of revving to without damage? Aswell if i wanted to replace my lifters do i have to take my head off.? Getting abit of a lifter tappet noise from my engine at idle dont know if its coming from my head or bottom end.

Thanks Kurt

with regaurds to the lifters, the heads can stay on. theres a how to around hear somewhere as well

is it this? http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84894

Your rev limiter is now 7200-7300 correct? Well not over that. Infact i don't think it could sustain that (bouncing off the limiter) without damage.
Imo, wouldn't bother reving it over 6500 ever, no gains to power over 6000.

Only thing i could think of would be a different sound from the high revs but risking an engine for the sake of sound is obviously stupid so yeah, no reason to rev it high.

Lifters can be replaced without removing the heads. There's a tutorial on here somewhere...

As for revs, you could "probably" rev the 6g74 trough to 8 (unless it has a limiter). But unless the engine was tuned to continue producing power past 5500/6000 it would be pointless. Outside of that, in standard trim, the higher you rev it and more often you do so is going to affect reliability accordingly.

Personally, I've held mine in first and revved it through to around 7000... out of sheer curiosity. It'll do it, but I don't recommend it.

Standard stops making power at 5.5

You could make it rev to 7500 without too many problems, but don't expect it to last long and all you'd be doing is going slower considering all the power stopped 1500rpm ago.

I've been thinking of a 30m engine / heads, which would be pretty cool. What do they do, 8000rpm?

Ummm, I thought this was the low k TL engine, if that is the case then your mechanic may have damaged something when he finally changed over these cams

With the cams btw, they look like 15 cams from the pics, nothign there that stands out to say they are not

Ummm, I thought this was the low k TL engine, if that is the case then your mechanic may have damaged something when he finally changed over these cams

With the cams btw, they look like 15 cams from the pics, nothign there that stands out to say they are not

Yeh is there a chance he could of damaged something wat could he of damaged?

And yes it is the low km TL engine.

yeah the 30m redline is 7400 rpm but it pulls hard right to 8000, rev limited is 8200 rpm when at operating temp and 6500rpm if engine is cold. Will not engage mivec till its at operating temp

yeah the 30m redline is 7400 rpm but it pulls hard right to 8000, rev limited is 8200 rpm when at operating temp and 6500rpm if engine is cold. Will not engage mivec till its at operating temp

revving an engine to 6500 rpm when its cold. :nuts:

Im not shore were this noise is coming from but it sounds like its coming from the bottom end.? My brothers old TH auto had this exact same sound aswell

If it's bottom end it could be a damaged piston hitting on the cylinder wall.

If it's bottom end it could be a damaged piston hitting on the cylinder wall.

If thats the case im guessing the engine wont last long at all

If thats the case im guessing the engine wont last long at all

Well no, it'd be buggered.

That's a pretty extreme case. Can you take a video of it and post it to youtube or something?

Check the power steering and alt belts are very tight, these can sound like a bottom end knock especially at idle when not dont up tight enough

If this knock was not there before but is there now I would say could be that or he has forgotten to tighten the cam shaft or crank pulleys

If I were you I'd take it back to the place you got it from as it should have come with some sort of warranty and get them to fix or replace it. If it came from the same bloke that put the cams in then get him to fix it and don't ever go back to him again cause he sounds dodgy to me.

revving an engine to 6500 rpm when its cold. :nuts:
Didnt say i did that, that is info i gained from mitsi nz. assumption = lol

Well no, it'd be buggered.

That's a pretty extreme case. Can you take a video of it and post it to youtube or something?

Yeh mate ill do one tomoz.

Big end bearing ive been told.

Big end bearing ive been told.

That was gonna be something else I suggested. Bugger man, big job to fix. Maybe rethinking all that massive revving of the engine to 7,500rpm now?

That was gonna be something else I suggested. Bugger man, big job to fix. Maybe rethinking all that massive revving of the engine to 7,500rpm now?

Yeh it would have been the raised rev limter that has done it for shore. Is the stock rev limiter safe.? Im thinking when i get it retuned with another engine they could set it to say 6500rpm or 6600rpm just to be safe?

. . . it would have been the raised rev limter that has done it for shore.

More likely its the fact that you want to bounce off the limiter most of the time. lol

Just put the limiter back to stock, then promise yourself you won't go within 1,000 rpm of it, and your fresh engine will be good for a long time.

If you picked up your car from the mechanics after he put the cams in and drove it like you stole it then sorry mate but you asked for it.
If this noise was noticed before the mechanic put the cams in then take it back to the place you got it and demand they fix or replace it.
If you didn't pick it up from the mechanics and drive it like you stole it and the noise was noticed then the mechanic that fitted your cams has damaged your engine.
My only other advice to you is to remember these are not race cars and if you drive it like it is it will damage the engine and box.

Cheers Luke

Could be the mechanic removed the cam belt when he changed the cams and didn't set the tensioner up correctly? Just an idea.

Could be the mechanic removed the cam belt when he changed the cams and didn't set the tensioner up correctly? Just an idea.

Im seeing him tomoz see wat he says. Aswell i was gonna ask can when u get a strengthened conrod do they aslo give u stronger big end and small end bearings?

Im seeing him tomoz see wat he says. Aswell i was gonna ask can when u get a strengthened conrod do they aslo give u stronger big end and small end bearings?

I know with my forged rods they only incuded ARP strengthened rod bolts.

Sorry to ask, but why do you want to rev higher that 6500rpm?

I know with my forged rods they only incuded ARP strengthened rod bolts.

Well the bearings along the way would have had to be replaced i reckon

Sorry to ask, but why do you want to rev higher that 6500rpm?

For racing?
Kurt may be trying to build a relatively cheap 13 second Magna - I think that would be an achievement.
(weight loss would be my recommendation - rip out the back & passenger seat next time you go to drag races. :) )

And if you're up for a new engine or rebuild, would you consider a 380 engine conversion?

My Ralliart revs cleanly to 6700rpm ish, maybe source some a set of these cams+valve springs?
Set the limiter to 6500 and you'll have no problems, then.

Stock limiter is 6850rpm, provided you are not running a custom grind there is no need to change it.

Matt - Don't do that, the RA cams die in the ass over 5500rpm, all you are doing is reving its tits off and going slower. In "racing" conditions on Ralliart cams, shift at 6000 from 1-2, then 5600 for every other gear.

My Ralliart revs cleanly to 6700rpm ish, maybe source some a set of these cams+valve springs?
Set the limiter to 6500 and you'll have no problems, then.

Was gonna say same here to 6700.

Still find this wierd, i've never hit the limiter in either of my magna's.

For racing?
Kurt may be trying to build a relatively cheap 13 second Magna - I think that would be an achievement.
(weight loss would be my recommendation - rip out the back & passenger seat next time you go to drag races. :) )

And if you're up for a new engine or rebuild, would you consider a 380 engine conversion?

Affordability for the 380 atm is hard. But power wise im gonna be struggling with traction cause of the torque the 380 has without LSD. Plus 3.5l with my mods and tune gets around 150kwatw its been proven on others also. 380 manual in a magna will do mid 150kwatw witch is not too much difference. But once u start modding a 380 itll shit on a 3.5l

Still find this wierd, i've never hit the limiter in either of my magna's.

Yeh well if u havent hit it will probably be wierd but after u do it feel ok the stock limiter is safe anyways to hit. but being a ralliart that u have they do rev nicley up top end witch ive noticed now with 380 cams.

Stock limiter is 6850rpm, provided you are not running a custom grind there is no need to change it.

Matt - Don't do that, the RA cams die in the ass over 5500rpm, all you are doing is reving its tits off and going slower. In "racing" conditions on Ralliart cams, shift at 6000 from 1-2, then 5600 for every other gear.

Aswell i can say from my expierence and some others to get into the 14s in there 3.5l they had to rev it to 6500 to 6600rpm. I know ive ***** up revving mine past the stock rev limiter but just because the peak powers are 55rpm dosent mean u change there u can definatly go abit over 6rpm hell i have got ok tyres sometimes in the dry my car will spin from 4500rpm to just over 6rpm then grip there.

Aswell i can say from my expierence and some others to get into the 14s in there 3.5l they had to rev it to 6500 to 6600rpm. I know ive ***** up revving mine past the stock rev limiter but just because the peak powers are 55rpm dosent mean u change there u can definatly go abit over 6rpm hell i have got ok tyres sometimes in the dry my car will spin from 4500rpm to just over 6rpm then grip there.

I haven't reved passed 6000rpm when I did my 14 except when changing gears as I had my foot flat to the floor the whole run hitting the limiter afew times

I haven't reved passed 6000rpm when I did my 14 except when changing gears as I had my foot flat to the floor the whole run hitting the limiter afew times

Thats not a good way to go about it lol

Only one way to learn flat/power shifting and that's to do it I guess

Thats not a good way to go about it lol

A mate told me to do that and all I've broken is one engine mount (touch wood) how many gearboxes have you gone through Kurt?

A mate told me to do that and all I've broken is one engine mount (touch wood) how many gearboxes have you gone through Kurt?

Broken 2 gearboxes. But flat shifting is pritty stupid im shore if i flat shifted i would of broken lots more boxes lol.

Broken 2 gearboxes. But flat shifting is pritty stupid im shore if i flat shifted i would of broken lots more boxes lol.

The same could be said for drag racing with that logic :P

Broken 2 gearboxes. But flat shifting is pritty stupid im shore if i flat shifted i would of broken lots more boxes lol.

excuse me i never said i flat shifted i use my clutch everytime but keep the accelerator flat to the floor which is why ive hit the limiter whilst going down the quarter
also my hd clutch is going fine too none of this standard clutch crap

The same could be said for drag racing with that logic :P

True lol. Who said im drag racing

excuse me i never said i flat shifted i use my clutch everytime but keep the accelerator flat to the floor which is why ive hit the limiter whilst going down the quarter
also my hd clutch is going fine too none of this standard clutch crap

Yeh thats called flat shifiting puts more stress on everything thats why u probably blew out an engine mount pal standard clutch is not bad either stands up with my driving fine.

So what did your mechanic say about the engine problems? And was it already damaged or has the damage been done since you had it?

Yeh thats called flat shifiting puts more stress on everything thats why u probably blew out an engine mount pal standard clutch is not bad either stands up with my driving fine.

Not to mention the car had over 200,000 on standard engine mounts. I'm just leaving it at that good luck with your motor I hope you haven't done any damage

So what did your mechanic say about the engine problems? And was it already damaged or has the damage been done since you had it?

Damage is bottem end so its not to do with him cause i never noticed this sound until a couple days after he put the cams in.

Big end bearing ive been told.

how many k's on your motor?? regular oil changes?

gotta suck having to spend $1k+ to repair your motor man

Kurt sounds like 6G75 time!

Cheers Dave

I just wont to make shore the extra revving was the cause of my big end failure. Wat are other things that can cause it on magna engines?

Were you able to identify which cylinder big end bearing it is? (i know its pretty hard), really you would have had to rev it absolutely insane for long periods of time to screw up big end bearing, probably more of common causes for big end bearing failure is the oil starvation (poor performing pump perhaps), what oil are you using? Also contamination (dirt, or other particles) in the oil, perhaps when mechanic put the cams in some crap found its ways into the oil.

Were you able to identify which cylinder big end bearing it is? (i know its pretty hard), really you would have had to rev it absolutely insane for long periods of time to screw up big end bearing, probably more of common causes for big end bearing failure is the oil starvation (poor performing pump perhaps), what oil are you using? Also contamination (dirt, or other particles) in the oil, perhaps when mechanic put the cams in some crap found its ways into the oil.

Do magnas have problems with poor oil pumps or starvation? U wouldnt think much shit got into the oil when swapping cams over?

Not that i know of, really its quite strange

The best way to examine bearing failure is to dismantle the engine and have the bearings in your hand. Plenty of resources on the web to help you diagnose big end failure once to can eyeball it. Anything else is just guesswork.

http://www.lcool.org/technical/80_series/td_bearings/bear2.jpg

Overheating effect.