Can someone supply the gear ratios for the 4 speed auto and 5 speed auto, including final drive?
Also the manual 3.0 and 3.5 ratios.

And, does the 5 speed shift smoother than the 4 speed or are they more or less the same gearbox bar the extra gear?

Thanks

Can someone supply the gear ratios for the 4 speed auto and 5 speed auto, including final drive?
Also the manual 3.0 and 3.5 ratios.

And, does the 5 speed shift smoother than the 4 speed or are they more or less the same gearbox bar the extra gear?

Thanks

All of the above can be found on www.carsales.com.au (http://www.carsales.com.au) > research section.

Do you mean this section:
http://www.carsales.com.au/car-research/details.aspx?R=86485
http://www.carsales.com.au/car-research/details.aspx?R=89652

It doesn't say anything about gear ratios

Hmm. They did have those info before. I can find out tonight from the manual and post it up if no one else does it by then.

Can't tell you about gear ratios but the 4speed was definitely a "smoother" box.

So from what I understand besides better acceleration, the 4 speed is overall better?
ie, it is smoother, it is more economical, it has a taller overdrive etc.

How much faster is the 5 speed to a 4 speed?

Do you mean this section:
http://www.carsales.com.au/car-research/details.aspx?R=86485
http://www.carsales.com.au/car-research/details.aspx?R=89652

It doesn't say anything about gear ratios

Just looked at the fuel consumption figures, I wonder how many can achieve such low consumption?? my average is about 12 litres per 100 k's at the best. Fuel Extra Urban (l/100km) 7.2 it says for a KH Verada, I'm lucky to get 9 l/100km, is my car using too much fuel or is this normal? cheers

I get 8-9L average with no start-stop type driving, those figures could be from 1999 when the cars were new, engines not so worn etc. Extra weight in a car is bad for fuel economy too.

This is lift from Drive.com.au:
The base-model ES and the LS were the only versions to miss on the excellent five-speed automatic gearbox. Instead, they were fitted with a four-speed unit that does the job but lacks the brilliance of the classier five-speed.

That makes the step up to the VR or VR-X worth the extra gold, because the intelligent transmission makes a difference to the way a Magna drives. The unit has a smooth, fluid action, as well as its share of smarts to tailor its shift points to how it is being driven. Nine times out of 10, it's bang on the money, too, and it remains a mystery why other local car makers can't always produce an automatic transmission with similar abilities.

and also:

The older, four-speed automatic gearbox is still the Magna's weak mechanical link. They get fragile with age and kilometres and will fail comprehensively and expensively.

The full article is at: http://news.drive.com.au/drive/used-car-reviews/mitsubishi-magna-20060719-14sg2.html

So from what I understand besides better acceleration, the 4 speed is overall better?
ie, it is smoother, it is more economical, it has a taller overdrive etc.

How much faster is the 5 speed to a 4 speed?

4sp auto is shit compared to the 5speed manual. 5 speed manual also shit on the 4sp auto in performance,

4spd auto 5spd auto 5spd man
========================
1st 2.842 3.789 3.333
2nd 1.495 2.057 2.105
3rd 1.000 1.421 1.407
4th 0.731 1.000 1.031
5th ----- 0.731 0.804
Reverse 2.720 3.865 3.416
Final 3.269 3.684 3.736

4 speed auto 2.842, 1.495, 1.000, 0.731, final drive 3.269
5 speed auto 3.789, 2.057, 1.421, 1.000, 0.731, final drive 3.684

Multiplying the 5 speed's 1st by the f/d gives a very low gear overall,
especially for a fairly large-engined car. I've not driven a 5 speed
model but suspect 1st is pointlessly low unless you want fast
take-offs or to tow heavy loads.

You've also got the odd situation that o/d is lower overall in the
5 speed than in the 4 speed - so you cruise at higher revs & use
more fuel. The 380 is quite different - it is very highly geared
overall in 5th.

Do you guys think the 380 5sp auto is a good unit (in terms of ratios) compaired to the TJ-TL VR-x 5sp Auto?

4 speed auto 2.842, 1.495, 1.000, 0.731, final drive 3.269
5 speed auto 3.789, 2.057, 1.421, 1.000, 0.731, final drive 3.684

Multiplying the 5 speed's 1st by the f/d gives a very low gear overall,
especially for a fairly large-engined car. I've not driven a 5 speed
model but suspect 1st is pointlessly low unless you want fast
take-offs or to tow heavy loads.

You've also got the odd situation that o/d is lower overall in the
5 speed than in the 4 speed - so you cruise at higher revs & use
more fuel. The 380 is quite different - it is very highly geared
overall in 5th.

Thats the idea of a sports model isnt it? the fast take offs?

I have no complaints about my 5 speed auto box, apart from having the urge to not control the right foot.

Although it revs a little higher at 110kmh cruising, i dont think it consumes more petrol. In fact, I prefer it like that because i can pass a truck without dropping a gear.

The only downside i find with this box is that it needs retraining after a battery change or it just keeps flaring between 2 and 3 until you do so.

The retraining is with all 3rd gen auto boxes. It was especially bad in the early days with magna rentals and drivers complaining the car did not shift correctly. Anyhow, how often do you drive at 110km/hr. Mine cruises at 60km/hr in 5th reving at 1400rpm.

i drive a KE 4speed. I get 13.5/100kms at its best.

My KW AWD is hovering at 14L/100km. Bear in mind mine weighs in at 1700kg, is AWD and I do not drive lightly and it rarely gets on roads above 70km/hr.

In my car I found the 4 speed smoother (as in actual gear changes), better on fuel (by at least 1L/100km) and was a much nicer "Cruiser".

If you want performance the 5 speed auto blows it away, but at a cost (not a great one, for me anyway).

I just want to know.the OP's underlying question.

And

4sp auto is shit compared to the 5speed manual. 5 speed manual also shit on the 4sp auto in performance, lol oops ;-)

[QUOTE=VRX257;1408246]Thats the idea of a sports model isnt it? the fast take offs?


All a matter of what you want. If my KJ wagon was 5 speed (its not, being Series 1)
I think I'd be wishing for a higher final drive. I'm getting around 9l/100km (country driving).

I assume with those ratios that maybe the 5 speed offers better economy around town and the 4 speed on the highway?

What are the 0-100km/h differences between 4 and 5 speed autos if anyone knows?

9.9 secs for the 4 speed tw - 7.5 secs ( or better) for the 5 speed IIRC, auto's.


it takes a hell of a lot of work to get a NA 4 Speed as fast as the stock 5 speed in straight line, this I know lol, but in the real world the 5 speed has advantages, accelerating from 45kmph and above, in the 4 speed, it wont jump back to first, thanks heavens. 2nd gear is lazy all the way to 75-80 until she starts to climb on the cam. Accelerating from under 40, and the 4 speed will jump to first and scare the bejesus out of you. Hold onto the wheel then baby. Where as any where between 40 - 80 and up to 100kmph (Redline?????) the 2nd Cog in the 5 speed will have loads of go.

interesting info on ratios, anyone know if this is the same for the 5 speed auto in my JDM Diamante? i can get 130km/h in 2nd at redline (7400rpm). 180km in 3rd at about 6000 - 6500rpm, when speed cut kicks in.

9.9 secs for the 4 speed tw - 7.5 secs ( or better) for the 5 speed IIRC, auto's.


it takes a hell of a lot of work to get a NA 4 Speed as fast as the stock 5 speed in straight line, this I know lol, but in the real world the 5 speed has advantages, accelerating from 45kmph and above, in the 4 speed, it wont jump back to first, thanks heavens. 2nd gear is lazy all the way to 75-80 until she starts to climb on the cam. Accelerating from under 40, and the 4 speed will jump to first and scare the bejesus out of you. Hold onto the wheel then baby. Where as any where between 40 - 80 and up to 100kmph (Redline?????) the 2nd Cog in the 5 speed will have loads of go.


That's what I was wondering cause I find my 4sp useless in 2nd from 40-70.

It sucks that you cant down shift to 1st at higher RPM because it redlines much higher at roughly 80km/h

Can you change the shift points with an ECU flash?

The guy in sydney can change the shift points, at roughly the price of a manual conversion tho.

You either have to drive within the parameters of the box, or change the box. i.e. dont do an accelaration test against a 5 speed from above 45 kmph. You'll be sorely embarrassed. Or hold first wuth a tippy!
I was quite surprised with my 4 speed the other night. So were the other guys.

7.5 seconds is pretty fast to 100. How fast would a VR-X or manual be? Or even the ralliart Magna?

I didn't realize these cars were so quick. I expected 8 seconds or so for the manual

There's plenty of info on the interwebs.
Look Here (http://www.autoweb.com.au/A_0660/cms/article.html)

7.5 seconds is pretty fast to 100. How fast would a VR-X or manual be? Or even the ralliart Magna?

I didn't realize these cars were so quick. I expected 8 seconds or so for the manual

The manual isn't terribly quicker, there's probably only a few tenths of a second difference down the 1/4 mile.
I still believe the increase in acceleration from going 4spd -> 5spd manual is more in the gear ratios than it being manual. When I converted from 5spd manual back to a 5spd auto, it felt slower, but 0-100 was pretty much the same. Then again it could have just been me and my inability to drive manual lol.

As for fuel economy, its not what you drive, but how you drive it. Nana could drive a 4 speed, more economically than most would drive a manual. But a young man with a penchant to get everywhere quickly, a five speed would use less fuel. The 4's are thirsty buggers when you are doing 70kph in first gear lol.

When did Veradas come out in 5 speed?
I am looking for some for sale ads and all are 4 speed. The only ones I see which are 5 speed are the ones with the ridiculous front end (the last facelift I think it is).

I think both the 4 speed and the 5 speed have failings. The five speed in its low final drive ratio and low 1st gear. The 4 speed in its tall overall gearing and it fragility. Ultimately the final drive ratios would've been an "average" of both final drive ratios - say 3.45:1. Planetary gears limit the fine tuning of individual ratios, but it would be nice to bring the five speeds 1st gear up a little. Bearing in mind I haven't driven a five speed auto Magna. I have the four speed - standard shifter - and I'm on my second gear box. If they weren't such a time bomb I'd give the four speed my "two thumbs up" approval.

Attached pic's for your viewing pleasure...

Standard 4 speed Auto, Standard 3.5l V6 Torque Curve. I had to eyeball the rolling resistance... it could be more, it could be less. Both charts dont factor in drive train loss.
http://i.imgur.com/kzcOQ.jpg

Standard 5 speed Auto, Standard 3.5l V6 torque Curve.
http://i.imgur.com/2HTOP.jpg

There is only 1 problem with those graphs, Magna's are FWD lol.

I'd agree with your comment regarding the first gear, it is ridiculously short in the 5spd, but then again that helps performance off the line and I'm sure was a design feature.

When did Veradas come out in 5 speed?
I am looking for some for sale ads and all are 4 speed. The only ones I see which are 5 speed are the ones with the ridiculous front end (the last facelift I think it is).
Any of the KJ GTV/GTVis will be 5 speed tiptronic... the Ei/Xi got the 5 speed in the Series II update, which was sometime in 2002 afaik.

Aren't the GTV/GTVi AWD models?
And which is the series II update?
I really dislike the last incarnation where the front end looked like a Pokemon character

Aren't the GTV/GTVi AWD models?
And which is the series II update?
I really dislike the last incarnation where the front end looked like a Pokemon character

No. Only the KW GTVi were AWDs like mine. The other Verada AWDs were based on the Ei. KJ II GTVi was still FWD.

The Series 2 will have Series 2 badging and from mid 2002 onwards I think. Do a search in research section of carsales.com.au

It seems like those ones are getting too expensive anyway for just a daily driver. I was originally attracted by the comfort and price of a 10 or so year old Verada, but the 5 speeds are nearing 10K which opens up possibilities for a lot of other cars which may suit me better. However for 3K where I see quite a few KF's I think they are unbeatable value with their only flaw being high fuel consumption which I guess is a trade off for comfort, good torque, practicality, looks etc.

It seems like those ones are getting too expensive anyway for just a daily driver. I was originally attracted by the comfort and price of a 10 or so year old Verada, but the 5 speeds are nearing 10K which opens up possibilities for a lot of other cars which may suit me better. However for 3K where I see quite a few KF's I think they are unbeatable value with their only flaw being high fuel consumption which I guess is a trade off for comfort, good torque, practicality, looks etc.

does the 5 speed feel less torquey off the line compared to the 4 speed. drove a kf verada the other day and was surprised with its torqueness off the line

Hi, I have 2 Magnas, both TJ's and one is a 4 Speed Tippy and the other is a 5 Speed Tippy. The 5 Speed just feels so much more alive compared to the 4 speed. The first gear is really quick and without traction control it has no problems wheel spinning like a mofo on take off or even mid gear. I hop back into my wifes car and honestly it feels so much more slugglish in first gear. Despite the fact its not slow, it just feels slower. Even if both cars quarter miled in the exact same time, I'd still prefer the 5 speed cause it feels much more alive than the 4 speed.

My 2 cents.

Boosty

Hi, I have 2 Magnas, both TJ's and one is a 4 Speed Tippy and the other is a 5 Speed Tippy. The 5 Speed just feels so much more alive compared to the 4 speed. The first gear is really quick and without traction control it has no problems wheel spinning like a mofo on take off or even mid gear. I hop back into my wifes car and honestly it feels so much more slugglish in first gear. Despite the fact its not slow, it just feels slower. Even if both cars quarter miled in the exact same time, I'd still prefer the 5 speed cause it feels much more alive than the 4 speed.

My 2 cents.

Boosty

great to know! thanks for that. general consensus seems to be that as well, maybe i just have bad standards, coz i thought the 4 speed verada was fast off the line.

ive owned a 4 speed and now 5 speed tippy. 5speed is my pick by a long shot

ive owned a 4 speed and now 5 speed tippy. 5speed is my pick by a long shot

how is the tiptronic on the 5 speed, anything like drivin a manual?

how is the tiptronic on the 5 speed, anything like drivin a manual?
It is similar, will down shift and upshift when you want, but will drop to first gear on its own if you roll to a stop in fifth gear. you cant skip a gear ie fifth to second, but the changes are quick, and precise. i sometimes just floor it in drive, it will drop to say third, then click to tiptronic to hold gears. it is a awesome gearbox in my opinion, would not go back to a 4speed. best of both worlds, you have gear control, but can still pop in drive and let the car do the work if your cruising

how is the tiptronic on the 5 speed, anything like drivin a manual?

Not comparable at all to be perfectally honest. The shift lag is absolute BS (Mainly noticable in tippy), and power delivery is just soft in comparison.

The Five speed Tippy, despite being very good, has an uncanny knack of holding 3rd when cornering at 20 kmph or so, a bad thing for performance, but good for the fuel misers, I'd imagine it wold take a 1/4 throttle kick to find second, or tippy it.
After owning the four speed I kinda wish for the 5, but doing 100kph at under 2000 rpm is a beautiful thing.
My Ideal Magna box would be the 5 Speed Tippy with 380 Ratios with the tall OD, but just a slightly longer first, especially as we extracting a bit more power out the cars...With the Tippy Lag cut in half at least. And a 3k Stally.
In tippy mode in my TW, I select second at 5500 to get it to change at 6000....

Ok, so I grabbed the TJ technical specs brochure and I have quoted the following:
3.5 L Auto 4 Speed
First - 2.842
Second - 1.495
Third - 1.000
Fourth - 0.731
Final Ratio - 3.274

3.5 L Manual
First - 3.333
Second - 2.015
Third - 1.407
Fourth - 1.031
Fifth - 0.804
Final Ratio - 3.736

3.5 L Auto 5 Speed
First - 3.789
Second - 2.057
Third - 1.421
Fourth - 1.000
Fifth - 0.731
Final Ratio - 3.684

From what I can see, the fastest or quickest first gear is actually in the VR-X 5 Speed tippy with a ratio of 3.789 vs the manuals 3.333.

Also, here are the 3.0L boxes for comparison.

3.0 L Auto 4 Speed
First - 2.842
Second - 1.495
Third - 1.000
Fourth - 0.731
Final Ratio - 3.735

3.0 L Manual
First - 3.583
Second - 2.015
Third - 1.407
Fourth - 1.031
Fifth - 0.804
Final Ratio - 3.736

Both Manual boxes, whether a 3.0L or a 3.5L are geared pretty much the same with the exception of 1st gear, and both have the same final drive ratios of 3.736.

Hope that assists with the debate.

3.0/3.5 manual trans have different final drives. 3.0 runs a 3.9, 3.5 runs a 3.7.

My 5 speed tippy in my JDM Diamante changes very quickly, no noticible lag. it changes faster from third to second say, than i could in a manual. im talking about the time between selecting + or - and the gear change initiating.

Auto is completely boring in a drivers car, IMO.

Hmmmm have to disagree, the tiptronic can be used the same as a manual ie holding gear through a corner, etc. the power train loss is a factor to consider ofcourse, not sure how much more power the 5spd tippy saps conpaired to the manual

Not comparable at all to be perfectally honest. The shift lag is absolute BS (Mainly noticable in tippy), and power delivery is just soft in comparison.

the shift lag with the Magna 5spd tippy is nothing compared to the 4spd tippy in the BA/BF Falcons.. and the Magna tippy is a lot better than the 5spd auto in the VZ/VE Commodores.

but the car that i've driven with the least amount of shift lag so far is a CU2 Accord Euro- but that's coz i haven't driven a car with a double-clutch gearbox...


Hmmmm have to disagree, the tiptronic can be used the same as a manual ie holding gear through a corner, etc. the power train loss is a factor to consider ofcourse, not sure how much more power the 5spd tippy saps conpaired to the manual

a fair bit, Dingers has done virtually the same amount of mods that i have on my car and he had 125FWKW whereas i had only 111FWKW (rounding numbers here... :ninja: )

Hmmmm have to disagree, the tiptronic can be used the same as a manual ie holding gear through a corner, etc. the power train loss is a factor to consider ofcourse, not sure how much more power the 5spd tippy saps conpaired to the manual

The day that all manufacturers stop offering proper manual boxes, is the day we all start driving like damn robots. Nothing auto can come close to driving manual box both for driver experience and ability to do things that autos cannot. I truly appreciate technological advancement (like screwing 150kw out of a 4cyl) but i cant for the life of me agree that auto boxes in any form are the way of the future. I have driven tiptronic, dual clutch semi autos, and i just felt bored by the whole experience

The day that all manufacturers stop offering proper manual boxes, is the day we all start driving like damn robots. Nothing auto can come close to driving manual box both for driver experience and ability to do things that autos cannot. I truly appreciate technological advancement (like screwing 150kw out of a 4cyl) but i cant for the life of me agree that auto boxes in any form are the way of the future. I have driven tiptronic, dual clutch semi autos, and i just felt bored by the whole experience

Really? What about the new GTR, Ferrari etc which all have semi auto boxes that shift faster than any human possible?

I think manuals will be a thing of the past.

Really? What about the new GTR, Ferrari etc which all have semi auto boxes that shift faster than any human possible?

I think manuals will be a thing of the past.

You seriously missed the whole point.... Autos lack control.

Really? What about the new GTR, Ferrari etc which all have semi auto boxes that shift faster than any human possible?

I think manuals will be a thing of the past.

Yes it saddens me greatly that a "performance car" no longer comes with a manual box.

By lack of control, what do you mean? ive used the tiptronic to downshift for engine braking, chosse the gear i need etc. is it the lack of clutch?

Yes lack of clutch. Not being able to instantly cut power in an auto shits me. In an auto, no heel-toe action and no rev matching (for most autos)

My magna was auto for almost all its life. When changing to manual, it just felt like a proper car to be driven and enjoyed

I have a 4 spd TJ FWD and 5spd 380 SX and I thought the 5 spd would a big step up in performance. Sure the 380 is faster but I am not sure that much of it's due to the gearbox. The 4spd is pretty quick I feel from a standing start, but if you get caught out on a hill and you are do 50 -60kms an hour it won't pick up at all. And it won't shift down to 1st even though its within the rev range. The only solution is to drop down to 40ms an hour and use the tippy to put it into 1st and then if you plant it, then it goes! 2nd gear in the 4spd is good for 140kms/hr plus (I've heard), it really starts pulling from 80kms/hr when it gets on the cam.

the 380 is more powerful but heavier, you need to compare the 4spd to a 5speed magna to really see the difference, it is a vast improvement in my opinion

I've owned the following, all in stock form:
3.0L 4 speed
3.0L manual
3.5L 5 speed tippy
3.5L manual

Currently own 3 of those, though the 3.0 auto is just my race car.. This is how they perform from best to worst.. 3.5 manual, 3.0 manual, 3.5 tippy, 3.0 auto.

The 4 speed (just reconditioned before I purchased it) is a pretty nasty box really, the hesitation on gear shifts blows the big one, I'm confident I would drop 4-5 seconds on my lap times with a manual box..

The 5 speed tippy again has hesitation, but not even remotely close to the 4 speed, and it is a lot more willing to downshift.

The manual 3.5 leaves the tippy for dead in a very major way. I'm going to side with the side of the argument saying that driving tippy is nothing like manual. You can 'control' the gearing in a 4 speed auto box too, select 2, 3 or drive, something I find myself having to do often in the race car.

Overall I wouldn't ever willingly get a 4 speed for a road going car, ever. I would purchase another 5 sp tippy if I loved the car, but a manual conversion would be on the cards. The manual boxes are superior, by far, and simply aren't really comparable.

If you like auto Magnas then the Ralliart auto is the pick.......

"Ralliart Magna's computer-controlled 5-speed Sports-mode transmission has been extensively recalibrated to suit the torque characteristics of the upgraded engine. This has included increasing the upshift and wide-open throttle downshift rpm while driving in auto-mode. Also, the manual-mode maximum downshift rpm was increased, the minimum upshift rpm was reduced, and power upshifts and kick-downs have been sharpened. "

Does the 5speed tippy in ADM cars have an safety overide to prevent overrevving? ie if you hold in gear would it let you hit revlimiter? (not that you would want too)

..Yes she'll hit the limiter.

"Ralliart Magna's computer-controlled 5-speed Sports-mode transmission has been extensively recalibrated to suit the torque characteristics of the upgraded engine. This has included increasing the upshift and wide-open throttle downshift rpm while driving in auto-mode. Also, the manual-mode maximum downshift rpm was increased, the minimum upshift rpm was reduced, and power upshifts and kick-downs have been sharpened. "

I'd really like to get hold of an ECU ROM image from an auto Ralliart just for this...

I'd really like to get hold of an ECU ROM image from an auto Ralliart just for this...

I could probably get a hold of one for you off Hulkstar's Ralliart (which was a 5spd auto but is now manual).

I could probably get a hold of one for you off Hulkstar's Ralliart (which was a 5spd auto but is now manual).

That would be appreciated if you could. Putting Ralliart cams into the AWD on top of the other mods has made the box even more irritating to use, particularly operation of the lockup clutch, even though I'm still running the stock tune...

..Yes she'll hit the limiter.
ok yeah same in my jdm one, seems obvious been the same box, be interested to find out if the 30M had a different trans program to account for extrarevs etc, it seems to shift quickly with no lag in tiptronic. many on here seem to say the 5speed in tippy mode has a delay, i dont experience this.

ok yeah same in my jdm one, seems obvious been the same box, be interested to find out if the 30M had a different trans program to account for extrarevs etc, it seems to shift quickly with no lag in tiptronic. many on here seem to say the 5speed in tippy mode has a delay, i dont experience this.

I have a standard 4spd, standard shifter, and I can "blip" the throttle on downshifts from 4th to 3rd and 3rd to 2nd = Smooth downshifts. Not your usual automatic trans downshifts. It's all about timing, and probably a lot to do with the lag you're talking about. Either way, its a handy trick, I'm not relying on the brakes as much and "in theory" I'm not loading up the internal clutches of the transmission as much.

What sort of revs will you be able to match the downshift to?

ok yeah same in my jdm one, seems obvious been the same box, be interested to find out if the 30M had a different trans program to account for extrarevs etc, it seems to shift quickly with no lag in tiptronic. many on here seem to say the 5speed in tippy mode has a delay, i dont experience this.

I wouldnt be surprised.

What sort of revs will you be able to match the downshift to?

From 4th back to 3rd, the hardest one to hit smoothly, I can shift back between 80kmph and 100kmph. Not much lag in that shift. You have to be right on the timing and the perfect amount of throttle or you'll get a "hop".

From 3rd, or even 4th, back to 2nd is the easiest one to hit smoothly. Anywhere between 50kmph and 80kmph its easy to get second shifting this way.

The lower the speed the trickier it gets I think, I'm still practising this. I'm still getting the right amount of throttle sorted for lower speed downshifts.

General rule though is 4th/3rd to 2nd is very easy to do smoothly; shift back to 2nd - feel the brief "neutral" - quick hit of throttle - clutches engage = smooth downshift. Practise.

Disclaimer; This is how I downshift, in my auto. It may not work for you or your transmission - heck it could DESTROY your transmission for all I know. This is me washing my hands of any responsibility for when you grab 2nd @ 130kmph and turn your planetary gears to mush.

I used to be a gun at this in the old three speed at my Dad's farm - where I learned to drive as a kid. Whenever I'm forced to drive the missus's X-Trail - this is how I drive. My Dad would frown on me if I downshifted any other way. Having one arm just makes it slightly more complicated.

Yeah i cant see it being healthy for the torque converter either. You are asking a lot of it to drag down high revs, hmm not sure?

I have a standard 4spd, standard shifter, and I can "blip" the throttle on downshifts from 4th to 3rd and 3rd to 2nd = Smooth downshifts. Not your usual automatic trans downshifts. It's all about timing, and probably a lot to do with the lag you're talking about. Either way, its a handy trick, I'm not relying on the brakes as much and "in theory" I'm not loading up the internal clutches of the transmission as much.

I don't understand why you're doing this.

What performance / economy / longevity / it's cool benefit, is there from this?

I don't understand why you're doing this.

Good point?

Probably because I can? And because I cant drive a real manual.

Outside of the fact its an auto, somebody who is a better driver then me might explain the benefits of this style of downshift.

I might be saving a litre per month shifting like this, I haven't been paying attention. If the computer is to believed there may some benefit, however small.

Then somebody who is an expert in automatic transmissions will let us (me) know which part of the transmission is suffering when shifting like this. If at all. In "theory" the mechanics of the shift would be of some benefit when done right.

Bear in mind I have NEVER shift to 1st gear like this. Never even tried. Cant see the point.

ROFL - I do this in my wife's car all the time - it's auto gearbox is so lazy that you could read a book while it downshifts, and it's even fine doing it from 2 to "L".
Having driven manuals for 10 years, then being stuck in an Auto, I just can't allow the car to do it's own shifting, because it always gets it wrong!!! :)

Potential damage? I don't think there is any - unless you stuff up the revs big time and then it's a tiny bit like dumping it from N to D with some revs on board. Not as bad, but a bit like that.
Benefits?
1) smooth downshifts to be in the correct gear to begin accelerating again. This is actually quite important because the engine lacks power, kick down is lazy unless you give 110% throttle and the upshift is too eager, so I manually select gears all the time. If you're approaching a red light and slowing (say 20kph) and the lights go green, 2nd gear just has NO acceleration, so I downshift to 1st with a blip to match revs or else the lights turn orange again before I get through them. This probably doesn't apply to any Magna except a tired 1st gen maybe.
2) People hearing it might think I'm driving a manual instead of an auto - I'm a bit embarrassed to admit driving an auto, but can't avoid it these days.

In my Magna, the auto box switches gears much quicker and blipping doesn't work, with one exception - downshifting with my Tippy to 1st doesn't happen unless road speed is almost zero.
But from 20kph and under, downshifting and blipping the throttle will drop back to first quite nicely. This adds engine braking and with my AWD it's quite effective.
This is a very low speed & low rpm downshift, so no harm.

What RPM is the 4 and 5 speed autos doing at 100kph?

If you were looking for primarily economy and relaxed cruising, is the 5 speed worth avoiding?

about 2100rpm for 4speed at 100km

2200 at 100 for 5spd. I am now getting 11.8 with relaxed suburban cruising.

Thats higher than I would expect for such a large engine. My 2.2 4 pot Reno with a 4sp auto is dooing 2300 at 100 - it has substantially less torque, even allowing for a lower kerb weight.

But not a great deal in it b/w 4 and 5 speed it would seem - those final drive ratios suggested to me a larger difference. You would think though the 5 sp could allow for a taller final drive - curious they went for a shorter one!

I believe the 5 speed auto was originally aimed at performance moreso than economy, hence the shorter ratios.

I drive my 5 speed around in sports mode most of the time. I wind out 1st gear to 3-4,000 RPM to get some engine noise going and then shift up to 2nd and then 3rd. I mainly drive in Semi mode as the car always dumps the gears into 5th and at low speeds, its crazy. I think the car is using more fuel torquing out all around the place in 5th. I drive in semi auto and lock it at 4th gear and its using less fuel, my Avg is lower. Well I belive this is the case.
As for slowing down, I drop from 4th to 3rd and sometimes 2nd. I dont bother going into 1st as your virtually at a stop and the car does that when it has to. 9 times out of 10, you just roll slowly and take off out of second. Like a real manual I guess, you should never engage 1st unless your ready to take off again.

I enjoy the 5 speed, feels so much more alive.

My wife drives her 4 speed around, and on the weekend drove my car and thought "Holy Balls" this car goes like a MOFO. I said its only got 9 more Killer Twats than your car, she just thought I was lying to her. I explained its the 5 speed, its far more responsive in 1st and 2nd gear.

Boosty

Thats higher than I would expect for such a large engine.

You would think though the 5 sp could allow for a taller final drive - curious they went for a shorter one!

At 100 KPH and 2,200 rpm the engine is near its peak torque, which makes cruising at that speed very economical fuel wise. This gearing is close to 300 KPH at red line, if you could get up there! Gear it any higher and it would feel sluggish at speed, use more fuel, and 5th gear would be used very rarely.

So, to me at least, the gearing of the 5 speed makes perfect sense. Revving near peak torque at the open road speed limit is common to most Mitsus, and I include 2004 Lancer, 4 cylinder TP and TS (both 4 and 6, manual and auto) and the TJ.

At 100 KPH and 2,200 rpm the engine is near its peak torque, which makes cruising at that speed very economical fuel wise. This gearing is close to 300 KPH at red line, if you could get up there! Gear it any higher and it would feel sluggish at speed, use more fuel, and 5th gear would be used very rarely.

So, to me at least, the gearing of the 5 speed makes perfect sense. Revving near peak torque at the open road speed limit is common to most Mitsus, and I include 2004 Lancer, 4 cylinder TP and TS (both 4 and 6, manual and auto) and the TJ.

Peak torque is more like 3500rpm for a stock 3.5

Peak torque is more like 3500rpm for a stock 3.5

Peak may be at 3500 but it is a very flat torque curve (90% can be had from 2000 rpm).

Peak may be at 3500 but it is a very flat torque curve (90% can be had from 2000 rpm).

Yeah, that's what I meant. You are cruising in the fat and juicy bit of the torque band. lol

Makes the car responsive at that speed, and gives good fuel economy. Torque only gets better as you accelerate from there, and of course there are a couple of downshifts available if you need to unleash more kilowatts for a quick overtake, like a road train hauling 4 trailers of gasoline north at 100 kph or so.

Peak torque is more like 3500rpm for a stock 3.5

Actually 4,000rpm. I've always found Magnas a little doey below about 3,000rpm. The 380 will pull up a hill in 5th, doing 60km/h at 1,100rpm quite happily. But, if you're well up it, you can feel it really come into the torque above 3,000rpm.

That's all fine, but with an extra ratio to pay with I would have expected them to run a higher top gear. It's no issue to discreetly drop back to fourth when overtaking is required.

Am at least suprised they lowered the top and didn't at least match the 4 speeds ratio. But as mentioned, built as more of a performance item. Doubt those couple of hundred rpm make all that much differance to economy though.

But for me the point of such a big engine is the lazy cruise ability.

Anyway - still looking for a decent wagon. Not sure it's worth the bother to hunt down a rare 5 sp one when all I want is cheap and durable. Not many buy a magna as a drivers car (sorry guys...).

If only the Galant/380 had a wagon version :(

like a B double hauling 4 trailers of gasoline north at 100 kph or so.

Do you realise how pants on head retarded that statement is?

Anyway - still looking for a decent wagon. Not sure it's worth the bother to hunt down a rare 5 sp one when all I want is cheap and durable. Not many buy a magna as a drivers car (sorry guys...).

If only the Galant/380 had a wagon version :(

There's the Galant VR4 Wagon, twin turbo 2.5L V6 AWD. Pretty awesome machines for their era, but compared with newer cars are showing their age. Very thirsty and without modifications are probably slower than a 380.
If you can't find a sports wagon (maybe a verada wagon had the 5 speed in later models?), you could always just buy a wagon and get it converted.

If I want a fast wagon that's worth spending proper money on, I'd probably go for a Volvo V70 R.

But a magna is cheap, tough and cheap. Good for travelling and camping and towing etc and not worrying about repair costs or getting it a bit messed up ;-) There is the occasional 5sp wagon around, but it sounds as of for my needs a 4sp may as good if not better.

Sorry - minor hijack. As you were guys :-)

Just some stats for you TW 4spd tippy, 60kmph 1200 rpm, 80kmph 1800rpm, 100kmph 2000 rpm. Tested today, ac on.
Edit: Modded for torque.

There's the Galant VR4 Wagon, twin turbo 2.5L V6 AWD. Pretty awesome machines for their era, but compared with newer cars are showing their age. Very thirsty and without modifications are probably slower than a 380.

Really, M4DDOG?!

380s do 0-100 faster than 6 seconds and the quarter faster than flat/low 14s?

Really, M4DDOG?!

380s do 0-100 faster than 6 seconds and the quarter faster than flat/low 14s?

Are you quoting times when they were new, or now, considering that they are almost 15-20 years old? But I do apologise as I was thinking of the specs of the 4 banger when thinking 0-100 times, which was 7 seconds stock, a 380 would be close to that.

I'd say a 380 would be able to pop into the 14's if we have stock vr-x's doing it, can't be sure though as I've never seen it. Most of the people I know with VR4's have modded the shit out of them, so it's hard to compare stock for stock.

Quoting time slips of used cars today. Looking at the numbers, it makes sense that they are capable of these times - 206KW, 367NM, 1480KG in manual and AWD. In fact, Fastestlaps has the VR-4 at 13.9 seconds for the quarter - http://www.fastestlaps.com/cars/mitsubishi_galant_vr-4_v6.html

I believe their production run was 1996 to 2002, so the later models are around 9 years old.

from memory (dont shoot me if this was already said - didnt read the whole ten pages of thread) the magnas fourth ratio is the same as the fifth in the auto but its not a final drive ratio. Also, everyone keeps saying the five speeds are great, i have an 04 KL verada XI and the trans is not very smooth at all, sometimes changes smoothly but mostly it has quite noticeable changes, not head jerking but defiantly not smooth for a 50k car when new, car has done 172k km, anything that would cause rough shifting in a 5 speed guys? just had the trans oil changed a few km ago, would re-learning the box help at all?

i did a relearn recently quikened up 2nd to 3rd changes , think it can help