Im desperatley trying to source a nolonger listed part for a TR 93 magna wagon 2.6l carby model the part being the AAP THERMO VALVE or better known as a auxiliary accelerator pump valve switch, the one on the topside-front of the inlet manifold with the 2 vac hose adapter (F shaped) if you have one (I WANT IT-how much for it and postage to nsw 2285) ;o) if you havent got one would you know where is could source one and a rough price for them,. a chap i spoke with suggested retrofitting one off another car (commo etc) with a 3-4way vac hose and blocking the non needed lugs?? would anyone possibly also know of a part number to help in my search, cheers and thankyou kindly.

a guess

a mitsi wrecker

Yeah i need to call around first thing in the morning, typical, spent all week pulling the motor apart to do the head, replace valves and a few other things.. come final tighten up of everything sat night and break the lugs off it..typical giving everything is shut Sundays.. gee i love Murphy!

Might try and bypass it when it comes time to fire it up, just having issues with the time chain tensioner in releasing so i can put the cam gear-chain back on the cam..more issues finding a suitable tool,. Grabbed a 5mmx1m steel rod, going to slap something up out of that..

check this out might help http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88953

The solid bar didn't do the trick, but a few thumps with a hammer and flattening out the end done the job nicely..with the hoses for the thermo valve ive just blocked both pipes for now, if it seems to run rough i'll run a straight through hose to bypass the vacuum to see if that helps,. i think it only assists in heating the fuel for cold starts?

still trying to source aap valve, can get for $60 new via mitsu but a 2week wait, one chap off here has one in SA,. Just need to take a hour drive to another wreckers that may have the part on car (remove yourself type wreckers) if they dont have one ill try for the one off the forum member.

As for the vac hoses ive tried blocking both off as well running a straight through hose from each point that runs to the valve but the old gal just does not want to fire... Ive set it at TDC on the crank with #1piston at tdc and the dizzy rotor at number 1 lead to no avail,. Ive also tried a couple of cogs either way and zilch..

One thing i noticed beforehand whilst pulling the head off is that when i came to removing the timing chain cog that the lug was facing down and not up as stated in the manual (had done all the strip down prior to getting hold of the online manual). But in saying that i made sure that the cam-cog etc were all marked to ensure it went back together. One thing that did occur though whilst removing the water pump pulley is that the breaker bar on the crank slipped off and i managed to roll the cam a few lobes, but i just rolled it back to my previous marks and lined them back up.. Would it at all be possible that perhaps the cam-valve timing itself may be out??

When doing the head i got it shaved-12thou removed-, and installed myself some new inlet valves (exhaust looked good-inlet had like a calcium build up) i also cleaned out all the carbon buildup and slapped in some new valve stem seals, Could the possible reason for it not firing be the simple fact that the valves are not seating properly?? if thats the case i assume it'll be another head removal job the put it in the get them seated?? If perhaps if its the cam timing would all thats needed doing is to remove the rocker cover...remove timing chain cog..loosen cam bolts then rotate it a lobe at a time until it hopefully fires, or would there be a simpler method of noting the order in which the valves are operating at each pistons tdc??

Any advice on the firing would be greatly appreciated!!

do you have a compression teste if not. remover number 1 plug use a screwdriver handle to seal the plug hole and turn over till you get compression. then check the location off cam cogg. and dissy . number 1 is at the top off the dissy. fireing order 1342.

havent got a comp tester, but i'll try the screwy method.. Might have had it set off the decompression stage,. One thing i'll do also is remove the rocker cover and make sure the cam-cog timing mark are aligned,.. know the firing order, piston order is 1 2 3 4 from crankpully back?

Still at a stalemate with the engine not firing,

Sorry about the lengthy post below but just trying to cover as many bases as possible..

Prior to my pulling the motor apart all was reasonable well with the running of the engine. The day prior to the engine dying the car had been running fine other then it using oil and water (valve stem seals and head leaking) I had been replacing a few little things for pinkslip -nothing engine wise thus far- The only thing i knew prior is that the cat convert had clog issues and the car flat spotted under load on hills, For a quick fix as i was 400km from home when it died that time i had removed the air cleaner housing to give it more air flow which helped with hill lag..

I had replaced a few globes, a side mirror and given the engine bay and undercarriage a good clean with a gerny. During the engine bay clean i had bagged the carby, alternator, fusebox, battery and dizzy. After the clean let it sit a while then went and picked the son up from school, no issues starting it and it ran fine (a slight decrease i had noticed in the rev levels of the car ie -@100km-hr sitting on 1000rpm instead of the usual 12/1500rpm and it blowing a tad more smoke-steam but this had been occurring gradually over a few weeks with the smoke-revs) upon arriving home from getting the son 25km round trip i shoved it back on the ramps to do the oil change and it had stalled but managed to fire it after a few attempts and got it up on the ramps, done the oil -likely whilst still too hot- which i thin finally pushed the head beyond limits.. so in the end ruined a nice fresh bottle of good oil.. Car would not fire from this point forward.

So im feeling its something else other then the following work ive done the throw something out of whack..

Upon removing the plugs they were very stuffed to say the least rather burnt and built up with carbon as was the piston tops and head chamber coated in a thick layer of carbon.

Ive now had the head removed, shaved 1200thou off it, reassembled with new intake valves as they were worse for wear with a chunky calcium looking buildup (i assume from the sugar in the e10) the exhaust were fine other then a thin layer of carbon..I also replaced the valve stem seals, and cleaned out the carbon buildup from the piston tops and head. New plugs, leads, rotor, cap, oil filter, air filter etc as well as replacing all vacuum and other hoses associated with the carby.

As mentioned previously within this thread upon dismantling the head i had the cam lug facing down instead of up, but had assembled everything as it was removed, No go.

So i have since removed the cam gear then rotated the crank so the #1 piston is a TDC and the TDC mark in line on the crank, This in turn has now lined the cam lug into its upward position and the dizzy rotor facing #1 lead, now i assume by doing it in this process that the engine should now be lined for correct timing in order for it to fire?? Alas no firing. I have spark at the coil, spark at each plug, fuel getting to the chamber. partial firing in saying that with a plug removed (does with all 4) upon winding it will sort of backfire once and during its firing procedure it spits out a small amount of fuel vapour and a bit of a carbon spark (likely just residual carbon left from cleaning) and ive also noticed a small amount of carbon build up on the plugs from trying to fire it up. SO this leads to tell me there is firing going on but just not enough of it.
And the engine seems to have a flatline wind over to it more like a mmmmeeeeerrrrr over the usual mmeerrmmeerrmmeerr noise it once made.

Other then my noticing of the head leaking into the #2 chamber the car had actually stopped running prior to any work taken out by myself to rectify the leaking head? Give me an older model car and ill have it running like a dream in a heartbeat but since my moving on with the times and the crapology to boot im now at a loss as to why she wont fire.

Is there a way i can run a diagnostic on it as im not to sure on the ins and outs running of ecu's etc and would there be any sensors that have possibly bitten the dust that may need replacing, Im still to replace the cat convertor if finances allow this fortnight (on the disability pension so its tight) could it be that now that the head is fresh but the exhaust clogged at the cat convertor or sensors/ecu in between having brainfarts??

Does the carby model have a different or smaller ecu over the injected model, ive had a look under the left hand side of the dash and passenger kickpanel areas and only come across a small (bout the size of a ciggy packet) with a small wiring harness going into it. Also the carby model doesnt have a oxy sensor going into the exhaust near the cat convertor or at the manifold like my old injected models, in all honesty ive been over the bay several times and other then the oil-heat sensors at the manifolds etc ive come across little of any other sensors aside those on the carby vac lines..

Where should i go from here?? Ive spent about $800 over the past fortnight but dont wont to spent too much more if i can help it (the car i only paid $50 for 18 months ago) with only needing plugs leads etc back then, oh and the cat convert which i still hadnt done.. so im happy to have spent what i have thus far on that car, just becoming frustrated that it still wont fire.. Whether its totally screwed(i doubt it) or im just over looking a cheap-or not so.. but highly needed part??

Ohh and to add to the above post, I had also replaced all Welch plugs except for the one between the block and gearbox bell-housing as im yet to read up on its replacement and looks to be a engine out gearbox off job!

Also for about a week prior to the car dying i had noticed the battery light coming on every so often and then going off after a short while.

This had occurred during a rather wet week so played it off as the extra moisture in the environment. Topped up fluid levels in battery and tightened down mount and clamps, light still came on but not near as often. Not sure if any of this info is handy but it may just lead to whats going on under the hood..oh and the battery itself is only about 12months old.

For this model is there a ecu diagnostic tool-program i can use to test the ecu etc or a certain type of meter im best using?

Its a TR 93 wagon 2.6l carby 5spd manual

i can only guess. if timings right and good spark . might be fuel .not getting anoth to fire. but i would check timing again.

is the timing 180 degrees out? Swap no 1 and no 4, and no 3 and no 2 and see what happens.
Mine did what yours is doing, took me nearly an hour to figure out what was going on

I'll try both of those ideas today, I found a new fuel filter laying about the other day so i'll shove that in anyhow,. and give the plugs a swap.
If both those suggestions fail i might also pull the ecu out and have a look for any tell tail signs of damage atleast until i can afford to grab a analog tester to test for any faults. Cheers.

Well,... I have replaced fuel filter.. Definitely has fuel pressure etc at least to the carby..whether the carby is doing its job i dont know. But prior to it dying in its russell coit the carby seemed to run fine other then a little rich.

I've also tried reversing the leads, still at a stalemate. I found the timing mark on the cam cog (the 3 oclock one) and it all seemed to line up as required.

Now,.. as for the ECU with this model where and what am i looking for? I had noticed with my old EFI models the ECU was much larger in size.
Ive located a small what seems to be the ECU behind the glove box this is lets say the size of a packet of 50's smokes and there is a smaller one in lhs kick panel level with the dash. The one behind the glove box i was easily able to dismantle to have a look at the diodes on the circuit board visually they all look ok none look either burnt out or disfigured, but in saying that one could be easily stuffed. The smaller box im still wrestling with the retaining screw.

Might take a wander down to the nearest auto store to suss out there prices on a tester to check if its spitting any codes at me. And also to line up a screw type pressure tester as i only have a push seal type and cant get a reading due to it not getting a sufficient seal (to ensure i am at top dead center for the timing) and the see if the valves are seating correctly..

IMO which means bugger all at this stage is leaning towards perhaps the exhaust is just too clogged and maybe i am snuffing the firing process, as after even only a minute or so of winding and inspecting the plugs they have a nice coating of carbon on them??..And perhaps when i had attempted to put it back on the ramps due to the head being on its last legs some water has built up in the pipe then back filled the cat and finally snuffed it?? It wasnt until a few days later that i tried dropping the cat and firing it over (removing the cat roadside assisted in it firing a little while back when it started snuffing out on hills) and had noticed some residual moisture..Though the spate of cold days could have contributed to that moisture.

It is obviously something minor thats thrown a spanner in the shite shoot!! Grr.

Would running a diagnostic possibly give me something to lead in a plausible direction?

after another fruitless day with old bessy (soon to be a mobile rotisserie-though not so mobile) decided to finish my pre pink slip repairs of changing the steer rack boots..talk about a pain to fit! i have little hands but not little enough! after winning that battle all was left was the slap the new tyres and alloys on it,. at least it looks a little more swanky now, only if it would fire!

Another thing i forgot to add to above posts on trying to diagnose the issue, about a week prior to the battery light coming on the heater fan (and aircon) decided to stop working, thinking it was a fuse check em all and all are fine..Thinking it may just be the main airflow amount switch on the dash? Un sure whether this also may be tell tail signs of the bigger picture of it not wanting to go.

I had also been running the car on e10 and thick oil with stop smoke, could fuel type and the oil being too thick be causing any grief? perhaps pull the oil pressure sensor out and give it a clean?

i havn,t touched a carby magna for a bout 7 years, i dont remember them having an ecu. the box near the glove box wikk be ihe fuel relay. have you tryed putting a bit off fuel down the carby , all drop the exhurst pipe at the flange and try that hope the old girl starts

ive tried a little fuel in the carby, though i'll only ever drop fuel down the throat in any car as a last resort. I've also tried a few squirts of 'start ya bastard' on a few occasions in both the chambers and carby,. I had tried at one stage dropping the pipe on the front side of the cat conv but i will try at the first flange, surely if it fires then the neighbors will love me because it'll get a few celebratory revs i tell you now ;o)

lmao i do that to neighhbors all the time lol

dropped the flange at the manifold and still no go..

One thing i have noticed though, previously prior to its demise..when turning key it would make a click noise which from in car sounded like the center console region this click occurred prior to the hum of the fuel pump, now no click noise but can sort of hear the fuel pumping..Could this be the little box behind the glovebox? that i had though might be the ECU but could be the fuel relay?? going to try and get a part number off this box and the one in the kickpanel to look them up.

I also pulled the starter out so sus it, but it seems it needs to be bolted in for it to earth it fully, was going to arch the terminals but was unsure what bolt-s to cross, but when bolted in it feels through the bellhousing mount to be operating, and its cranking the motor anyhow?

hey mate just a thought as your tried putting fuel down the carby with no luck doult it the relay. hope not to affend but 1000ks away and just guessing.you have good spark and fuel , sorry timing come back. to mind .fireing order 1342. 1 at top off dissy. on the cog locater to the top and dot at right angle towards the windscreen. unless your got a massive air leek. im stumped. hope she live,s

yeah it has me utterly stumped.. Cog locator is at top, dot to 3 o'clock, rotor at top of dizzy leads in clockwise, top lead to #1 (from pass side to driver) next one to #3, next to#4 next to#2..all plugs are sparking as is at the coil, battery has heaps of kick. Either air and or fuel issue id say.

Winding-crank issue occurred before rectifying the head gasket. Could have been a dead wind then because of air leak within the head gasket, though that leak is now fixed, perhaps as i have thought the valves might not be seating and the air leak-loss is there. Very much doubt its a vacuum leak as all hoses are now new.

The valve timing is governed from the position of the cam lug and dot facing to 3 i take it so if thats lined then it -should- be cycling the fuel-air in/exhaust out correctly.

Might have to bite the bullet and kick the self sufficient me aside and get a mobile mechanic in for a look, at least he-she'll have the correct testers on board, a screw in pressure tester should reveal if the valves are seating.

Ive also just removed the 2 relay thingies from the glove box and kick panel. The kick panel one has MD106657 K8T51290 3113 written on the outer casing and K331B149 in the circuit board, The glovebox one the casing is all but impossible to read the code the bracketed are digits either i cant read ? or ?# what it looks to be okies.. Brand is ?DENS? (?1) 7 7 (?2) 0 0 - 1 (?) (?3) (?) 12V... at a guess its something?? also stamped on the case 2N 18 A6 the circuit board has 351-1000. The harness for this box has AU 246 410 - 0050 AW 330 407 S A.W.S W/O NO:302 on the tag, The drivers kickpanel fuse box has the 12pin plug (white) on its outer casing, and this going by the manual is where the ecu is tested for codes so im just confused as to whether a diagnostic can be run from this point? Aslo if i was to run a multi meter from pin to pin on each diode this should tell me if one or more are damaged? Sorry for wracking those that are helpings brain, if vi was to wrack my brain any more it would be easier to start whacking my head with a hammer ;o) and i cant thank enough the responses given thus far.

Well i just spoke to a mobile mechanic on the phone and his thoughts are that perhaps the lifters arent operating correctly, and when back tracking when i had them out i had soaked them in diesel overnight but failed to refill them with oil so the thoughts are perhaps my valve senario, time to pull them back out for the unteenth time and fill em with oil this time. lets hope that works. I was thinking when doing the job of the 202 redmotor lifters that didnt need life giving fluids to work..If this doesnt work im seriously thinking of a kingswood wagon downgrade..Atleast with them donks you can run them dry of both oil and water and get the car home even from 100km away :)

Argh!! bled and oiled the lifters and soaked them over night. just shoved them back in and upon setting the timing before putting the dizzy back on and a rocker broke...prior to it departing the car the compression did feel a heck of a lot better then it previously was!! Never did like Magnas but started to have a liking for them over the past couple of years with the ones ive owned!! Now they are starting to suck just that little more ;) live n learn they say!