I had a Dyno done this morning at Dynomotive Bayswater, after some concerns about performance drop off. Anyway here is the chart (sorry for large file). I am not too impressed by the results but it gives me more drive to do something about it. I can understand the basics but can anyone tell me anything obvious just from looking at it. I have seen very few charts before so the curve does not mean a great deal to me without comparing it to a stock and performance chart.
For the record at the time of dyno: 1997 TF, ODO 208,600kms :redface: , Auto 3.0L, pacemaker headers, Redback exhaust, K&N Panel.
http://neilk.customer.netspace.net.au/dynotf.jpg
The guy who owns the place said that it definately has potential but it is running too lean down low and top and strongly suggested I install a Unichip to make the other mods worth while. I quizzed him about the Greddy Emanage and he basically said, if you aren't going to adjust it yourself or don't know what you are doing, then go the Unichip. Anyway, I am going to be calling him back later to book it in for the chip install (although I need to find out the cost first!). If anyone else has charts ( I have a few but they have RPM scale where as this has KPH) it would be much appreciated. Cheers Neil.

nice nice nice..... so I should be expecting the same.

114kW approx 159HP, which is close to what I got from my G-tech reading on my car. I got 162HP from my G-tech.

looking at the Power graph, it shows clearly that our 3.0L are really poor at low down, only comes to live about 1/2 way, which corresponds to what I feel when we drive it.

Hey, if you are coming to the cruise tonight, we test your car using the G-tech as well.

nice nice nice..... so I should be expecting the same.

114kW approx 159HP, which is close to what I got from my G-tech reading on my car. I got 162HP from my G-tech.

looking at the Power graph, it shows clearly that our 3.0L are really poor at low down, only comes to live about 1/2 way, which corresponds to what I feel when we drive it.

Hey, if you are coming to the cruise tonight, we test your car using the G-tech as well.
Hey WhiteDevil, well I'd be expecting more of yours, if my cars recent performance is anything to go by :cry: The guy said a chip will hopefully balance things out a bit. Hey can you tell me what the G-tech is, I am hoping I am one of many that don't know but are curious. Cheers

Edit: Oh, for those who were following a recent thread of mine. I think I will be going the high-flow TB after all that!

114kW approx 159HP
159HP is approx 119kW.

That graph doesn't look too bad. I wouldn't be too unhappy with the result really. Fristly, it's an auto and secondly, dyno figures vary. I'd be concerned if it really is running lean / rich which should be able to be tested when they dyno it and they can graph it too. It's typical to have speen on the bottom as they don't know what RPM the car's doing. You can work it out either mathenmatically or go look at some speeds in the same gear. What gear did they use?

Unichip would be about 1200ish installed and tuned. Sounds like a reasonable option. You could go GReddy but you should use what the tuner uses and know's best. The GReddy has more flexibility but if he has never installed and tuned one before, he won't get the best out of it.

agree with redav, 115kw is 155hp just splittin hairs,
and the graph isnt bad about what id expect with your mods. also the chip wont change the shape of the curve, it will basically follow the curve u have with slightly more power, maybe 6-8kw more using the same fuel. basically the 3.0 engine is narrow V and short stroke so opens up at 3000rpm and that wont change.

I was quoted $1250.00 for a Unichip supplied, fitted & tuned by Formaz (http://www.formaz.com.au/) here in Perth.

They highly recommend them aswell, probably because they are an APS agent!

nice nice nice..... so I should be expecting the same.

114kW approx 159HP, which is close to what I got from my G-tech reading on my car. I got 162HP from my G-tech.

looking at the Power graph, it shows clearly that our 3.0L are really poor at low down, only comes to live about 1/2 way, which corresponds to what I feel when we drive it.

Hey, if you are coming to the cruise tonight, we test your car using the G-tech as well.

not long ago i had a go at you for buying a g-tech and u said it was for the purpose of giving an indication of your cars performance. But now u have quoted the 1/4 mile figures in your signature and are using it to estimate hp @ the wheels! I tell you what a better indication is. Look at what other 3L auto magnas have run down the quarter, or go to the strip yourself. If you run 15.4 down the 1/4 then i am Santa Claus, but i want you to prove me wrong :)

Wooooooooo, Chill bro. When I get the chance, I will go down the 1/4 mile, no need getting worked up.

In my signature I clearly state underneath the times "G-tech", hence the figures are for G-tech comparisons and it would be the ball park figure I would be expecting on the 1/4 mile.

I don't go around critising others, I only hope the same in return.

yeh ok i was in a bit of an angry mood this arvo. sorry dude, i just have something against g-techs :doubt:

I was quoted $1250.00 for a Unichip supplied, fitted & tuned

i had no idea they were that much
:redface: so many people have them too.

At this moment I don't think there is anyone in perth other than ourselves who deals with teh greddy systems on teh magna vehicles.

The power figures are fairly consistent with themods you have done on teh vehicle but firslty let me say, don't get too concerned about the figures as all dyon's will vary and if you go to another dyno the hp figures will be different.

The best thing to do is whatever dyno you go to is to get a before and after shot to show the improvements of the tuning.

Finaly word of advice - the unichip is a great product, but it is something that has been on the market for over 10 years now with no updates, and to be honest is very limited in its tuning capabilities.

Compare it to the likes of a greddy sometime and you can see why. If you are looking to do more modifications in the future the consider this becasue the Unichip can only be tuned at several locations in Perth no one else can touch it.

If you go something like a greddy you can purchase the software if you wanted to and go to any dyno to get the work done.

If you are in perth - you shoudl drop by sometime because I doubt there is anyone in perth who can tune a magna as well as we can these days! Rememebr that is all we work on. :D
The guy who owns the place claims that he has been in the game for over 20 years and that there are hundreds (???) of tuning points they can do with a Unichip live. Is this right, or have one of us got it wrong? He did have a whopping big Unichip banner on the wall.
He was a little bit patronising, saying that yes he can work on Greddy's but he said 'lets be honest you haven't worked on them before have you?' after I said no he then said said 'We would tune it then you would f**k it up, then he would have to correct it again', he just picked up that I was a bit 'green'. Forgets that I have some money to spend :rant:
I would drop by if I was over the other side of OZ at any time thanks.
I am leaning towards the Unichip at the moment, purely based on cost, and I guess if a product has been out for 10 years that has credability for me. But I have more time to decide now that my car has a new dent to be repaired. :cry:

Yes in your situation the unichip is really your only option and will still do the job, although if you found someone who has done the greddy before check them out. What state are you in as I may be able to refer you to somenoe.
I think he's in Sydney. Any chance you might come up with a contact for Brisbane?

I think he's in Sydney. Any chance you might come up with a contact for Brisbane?
Sydney? he he. I am down in sunny Victoria :doubt: lol
Thanks for your assistance Mitsiman. :thumbsup:

Sydney? he he. I am down in sunny Victoria :doubt: lol
Hahah! Close. I got you mixed up with Whitedevil. (Hope I got that right!)

Hahah! Close. I got you mixed up with Whitedevil. (Hope I got that right!)
Umm I think you might be wrong again, cos I only saw WhiteDevil on a cruise just a week ago. But keep trying! lol

MadMag, PM EuroAccord. he'll be able to point you in the right direction.

and Redav, keep trying mate!!!! :bowrofl: lol :bowrofl: lol

and Redav, keep trying mate!!!! :bowrofl: lol :bowrofl: lol
No, I'll give up while I'm this far behind :redface:

I know many factors can vary results for what I am about to ask, but can someone please tell me what the rough conversion formula is from kilowatts the wheels, to kilowatts at the flywheel? I heard it is something like 30-33% difference.

For example if the original stock figures for a 24V 3.0L are 140kW at the flywheel, what would that roughly be at the wheels converted?

Why am I asking? I want to know roughly what approximate gains I am making back from my engines original condition, considering my engine has done nearly 210K! I want to know whether I am still lagging, breaking even given wear and tear, or making gains now. and when I get my next wave of mods once again what gains from the next dyno.

Cheers again.

[QUOTE=HyperTF]I know many factors can vary results for what I am about to ask, but can someone please tell me what the rough conversion formula is from kilowatts the wheels, to kilowatts at the flywheel? I heard it is something like 30-33% difference.

For example if the original stock figures for a 24V 3.0L are 140kW at the flywheel, what would that roughly be at the wheels converted?

QUOTE]

i dont think that works, because i tried doing it 30% difference, thats wat i got told it was. i did it with a TJ sports and it said that it would hav 114kw atw then, but that cant b rite because my brother put his car on the dyno yesterday wich was stock and got 129kw atw so its not even close to 30%. it had only lost 34kw through the wheels, if u can work out the percentage of loss then try that on ur car.

I know many factors can vary results for what I am about to ask, but can someone please tell me what the rough conversion formula is from kilowatts the wheels, to kilowatts at the flywheel? I heard it is something like 30-33% difference.

For example if the original stock figures for a 24V 3.0L are 140kW at the flywheel, what would that roughly be at the wheels converted?



i dont think that works, because i tried doing it 30% difference, thats wat i got told it was. i did it with a TJ sports and it said that it would hav 114kw atw then, but that cant b rite because my brother put his car on the dyno yesterday wich was stock and got 129kw atw so its not even close to 30%. it had only lost 34kw through the wheels, if u can work out the percentage of loss then try that on ur car.
Thanks for the reply. That works out to be a loss of 21% rounded I think (if my maths is correct :confused: ).

129 / 163 = 0.79 x 100 = 79.1 ---> 100 - 79 = 21%

So just reversing the calculation, and assuming that it makes no difference from the wheels to the flywheel between engine capacities and your brother's car is stock then:

21% of 163kW = 0.21 x 163 = 34.23 (kW loss which is close to your figure)
163kW ATF - 34 = 129 kW ATW

Thus assuming my engine was new using the following calc the estimated stock kW ATW:

21% of 140kW = 0.21 x 140 = 29.4 (kW loss)
140kw ATF - 29 = 111kW ATW

i think mine works out to be a loss of 18% rounded with mods! using the same from stock which is close to your figure. (I wish I would have dyno'd before I started modding!)

So just assuming again that 21% is a rough benchmark then I would be happy with the 18%!

I guess the thing that I am unsure of in this example is if the capacity of the engine is different are you going to get an overall variance?! Your brothers car is 163kW new whereas mine was 140kW new (3.0 vs 3.5L+).

Something tells me results are going to vary depending on fuel quality used, the wear of working components of the engine through the drivetrain to the wheels, etc etc from vehicle to vehicle. I suspect I may not find an accurate way of working it out but I will keep trying to find answers.

Cheers again (it helped! :D )

you will probably find there is more variance in the dyno than the results of the actual loss from the gear box!!! mate of mine have dynoed cars on different dynos and different days (no mod changes) with greatly varying results!!! (up to 20kW!!!)

i think autoweb/autospeed did an article on this as well.. or maybe some other mag... i dunno!

25% - %30 drive train loss is accepted for most cars, maybe a little more for some autos... %20 sounds a little off to me, but there are always exceptions!

you will probably find there is more variance in the dyno than the results of the actual loss from the gear box!!! mate of mine have dynoed cars on different dynos and different days (no mod changes) with greatly varying results!!! (up to 20kW!!!)

i think autoweb/autospeed did an article on this as well.. or maybe some other mag... i dunno!

25% - %30 drive train loss is accepted for most cars, maybe a little more for some autos... %20 sounds a little off to me, but there are always exceptions!

thats right u cant take the dyno as dead accurate, more like give or take at least 25kw.

but as a rough guide, drivetrain losses are between 20-25% fwd, 30-35% rwd, and 40-45% awd. the autos having the more loss than the manuals.

the only way to

thats right u cant take the dyno as dead accurate, more like give or take at least 25kw.

but as a rough guide, drivetrain losses are between 20-25% fwd, 30-35% rwd, and 40-45% awd. the autos having the more loss than the manuals.

the only way to
Thanks for that but "The only way to..." what? :confused:

Hey Dingo, thanks for the info too.

sorry i think i was going to say the only way to know exactly the engine power is with an engine dyno, but then left it out bec its only like for big $ US or jap engineering/tuning companies that have em.

i just ran 124.3 kw this mornign with cai and tj sports exhaust he said she running sweet as not to lean not to rich just right so i am stoked lookin forward to the 150 kw mark now

i just ran 124.3 kw this mornign with cai and tj sports exhaust he said she running sweet as not to lean not to rich just right so i am stoked lookin forward to the 150 kw mark now

Exact same number my stock TJ Sports pulled :D good work.

Exact same number my stock TJ Sports pulled :D good work.Yeah, but I believe that your car has 0.5l more capacity.

Yeah, but I believe that your car has 0.5l more capacity.

In that case - extra kudos!

Your car looks pretty promising.I would go and get a unicip installed for sure its mt next mod aswell.I think it will put on at least 10kw atws.Thats not to bad 124 atw and it will be running nicer too.Greddy is alright for more advanced mods.:D