Hi :)

I seem to have failed searching this forum so i will post!

I currently drive a 2005 magna tw es series 2 wagon and I am looking to upgrade to a 2007 380 sx series 3 sedan, not the easiest car to find though.
When I do manage to find the car that I want, I would like to convert it to dual fuel for economic (hopefully) as well as environmental reasons.

I currently do approx 20,000 kms per year, 50/50 urban and highway I guess

I have little idea so far about:
different systems
warranty issues
registered fitters and cost
federal rebates/state rebates (WA) (looking into though)

I have emailed mitsubishi and the RAC today to see if i can get any details from them as well (you never know)

ULP is currently $1.45
LPG is currently $0.95

still a reasonable difference but the LPG is more than it should be down here (Albany, Western Australia)

pretty much all that i have found ut so far is that I should be looking for a vapour or liquid injection system and the price should be roughly between $2500 and $4500

Any advice will be appreciated; chances are that there is already a fairly current thread here on the subject

95 cpl for LPG? Wow I thought 65cpl was bad here in Adelaide lol.
I have a 380 with sequential vapour injection... couldn't find anyone doing a liquid injection kit for the 380 at all, guessing that one was never made.
The system I have starts on petrol and switches to gas automatically when the engine is warm enough - this takes about 1.2km of driving, so on a given work day, 2.5km of travel is on petrol, the rest on LPG.
The tank has 50 litres usable space. I generally get about 330km total out of a tank, of this about 30km is on petrol, so 50 litres/300km or thereabouts (I have gotten 400km out of a tank before, all depends on where you fill up. Some places seem to operate at higher pressure so more gets put in the tank)
I can't recall what my mileage running straight petrol was, I think it was about 550km for a tank (65 litres)
My system cost $3700 before the rebate. Fitted in May this year, the rebate was $1500 at the time, so ended up being $2200.

I've been able to fill up at about 60 cents a litre lately, so I am essentially paying $10/100km on LPG. At 95 cents/litre it would cost about $16/100km. You'll need to factor in some petrol usage as well.
Petrol at $1.45/litre would work out to about $17/100km (11.8L/100km)

Can't see it being viable at that LPG price. You'd never make up the price you paid for the conversion.

you pay 65c ?

well, that seems fair :( ;)
thats a disgrace, I live in a city 4 hours drive south of Perth

Interesting to know about the system starting on ULP and then switching. I live about 3km's from work so that is clearly another negative

you pay 65c ?

well, that seems fair :( ;)
thats a disgrace, I live in a city 4 hours drive south of Perth

Interesting to know about the system starting on ULP and then switching. I live about 3km's from work so that is clearly another negative

At 3km from work, the most cost-effective thing you could do would be to walk or get a pushbike :)

I hardly get drive the missus 380 with an SVI LPG system, its the 380 designed unit, but the average litres per 100 sits on 12 litres.
In driving to work stuff, no freeway, a testament to her driving, we'd easily achieve 500 k's to a tank on the freeway from the 52 litre capacity tank.
And my magna sits on 12 to 14 lp/100 depending on how I drive. In a test on the freeway, 8.7 litres per 100 was the result with 110 kmp/h on the GPS ( about 115 indicated) with the A/C on.
The gas change should occur when the water temps reach 24 deg.
Gas is about .60 cpl atm.
But with LPG at those prices, it would not be a popular choice to change over, and this means there is a good chance that their would not be as many skilled techs around, nor would the pricing be as competitive.
There is a payback calculator Here (http://www.lpgautogas.com.au/index.cfm?Action=MyFleet), you'd want to be doing a few more k's a year it seems, but the rebate has dropped since I got mine done.
There doesn't seem to much reward for you to convert over there, My work is 20 k's away.
The sensible thing would be to find a car already converted. As long as the price isn't jacked up for the conversion.
Upgrading to a car that will use more fuel on short trips ( pls correct if I'm wrong) seems kind of counter-productive if you want keep more dollars in your pocket, unless its motivated by another reason.

As for where you are logistically, you are 4 hours from a capitol city, which happens to the capitol of one of the most isolated population centres around the world.
So to warrant staying there for the extra expense of frieght, logistics, cost of living etc, I'd want to be getting the Good WA Pay Packets.

I just checked the fuel watch site, LPG is cheaper in perth than it is here. $1.00 a litre sucks the big one.

Im not sure why the 380 will use more fuel on short trips

Magna combined is 12.1 litres/100k
http://www.redbook.com.au/used-cars/details.aspx?R=87045&__Qpb=1&Cr=3&__Ns=p_Make_String|0||p_ClassificationType_String| 0||p_Family_String|0||p_Year_String|1||p_SequenceN um_Int32|0&SearchAction=N&__N=2994%204294949495%204294843003%204294965654%20 4294910103&silo=1300&seot=1&__Nne=15&trecs=4&__sid=131C7F1760FF
380 combined is 10.8 litres/100k
http://www.redbook.com.au/used-cars/details.aspx?R=87507&__Qpb=1&Cr=2&__Ns=p_Make_String|0||p_ClassificationType_String| 0||p_Family_String|0||p_Year_String|1||p_SequenceN um_Int32|0&SearchAction=N&__N=2994%204294949495%204294842993%204294965584%20 4294912061&silo=1300&seot=1&__Nne=15&trecs=3&__sid=131C7F1760FF

Basic reason for changing is that I no longer want a Burgandy coloured station wagon that has been tainted by evil women ;)

If it was only for financial reasons I would get a smaller car, the issue is though that the magna is just so comfortable and well appointed for its price, the only thing that I have found to compare is the 380!
As far as the full size cars go the holdens and fords dont even come close (like driving crude tanks) the Toyota is okay but still does not compare to the Mitsubishis.

Cost of living is known to be high in albany inclusive of wages being low. The money in WA is up north on the mines.

The walking/biking option does have merit ;) but I believe that gas is the way to go in the future anyway (we do have a lot of it over here)

All input on this subject is appreciated :)

Im not sure why the 380 will use more fuel on short trips

Any car, not just a 380, will get worse fuel economy if it only ever does short trips, even more so if the engine is cold when started.

I hardly get drive the missus 380 with an SVI LPG system, its the 380 designed unit, but the average litres per 100 sits on 12 litres.
I assume you're working that out based on the actual amount of fuel that's put in to the tank, and not what the ECU says? I know that my ECU reports a lower fuel usage on LPG than what I actually am using.
MY Instrument cluster (and all 380's AFAIK) is not LPG aware, hence why the fuel gauge is separate from the cluster.
I did a lot of checking and comparisons between the amount of fuel (LPG) the dash said I had used and what I actually used and they were generally 15-20% out.
My testing was done by filling the tank at the same LPG pump at about the same time of the day, with about the same ambient temperature.

Ideally I will just find one already converted, apart from finding one though a potential issue there is finding one with the right system as due to the LPG price here I really do need an efficient system to even consider using LPG at all.
I have car yards looking for the car I want, they have been doing so for about a month already. Looking for a 2007 sx series 3 so i am being fairly particular, even more so with one car yard who knows I really only want black or white, so the chances of finding one with gas as well are fairly slim ;)

End of the day it looks like I live in the wrong location to even be considering gas. i believe most of Australias LPG comes from off of the coast of WA so in reality I am not that remote! I have emailed the WA govt requesting an explanantion on why LPG costs 1.5 times as much here as it does in Perth (400kms away)

ULP is only approx 10c per litre more here than in Perth (about the closest its ever been i believe)

I pay little attention to the trip computer fuel consumption figures too, its just a rough guide to me
So many vairances though when working these things out
I did a trial with the magna about 18 months ago with ULP, 95ron and 98ron and my economy actually mildly worsened as I went up the grades! (most likely I guess due to driving variations) that is prior to even factoring in the extra cost per litre!

Its raining, I dont want to ride a bike ;)~

I assume you're working that out based on the actual amount of fuel that's put in to the tank, and not what the ECU says? I know that my ECU reports a lower fuel usage on LPG than what I actually am using.
MY Instrument cluster (and all 380's AFAIK) is not LPG aware, hence why the fuel gauge is separate from the cluster.
I did a lot of checking and comparisons between the amount of fuel (LPG) the dash said I had used and what I actually used and they were generally 15-20% out.
My testing was done by filling the tank at the same LPG pump at about the same time of the day, with about the same ambient temperature.


See also http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89600&p=1413894&highlight=#post1413894

and

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87808&p=1399338&highlight=#post1399338


You generally need to multipy ECU numbers by about 1.3 becasue LPG is less "energy dense" per litre than petrol and varies from 1.25 5o 1.35 depeneding on butane/propane proportions, which are not regulated by Govt.

Thank you for the links :)

I have no idea why on the forum home page, if i enter 'LPG' into the search bar i get no returns at all!

The factor of 1.3 is clearly a major issue for me, this would of course vary due to the gas itself as well as the system but is way too close to my fuel/LPG factor of approx 1.5 at the moment to make it viable :(

The best system you can get yourself is the Impco system which was designed with Mitsubishi, these systems pretty much integrate into the existing wiring and are a very clean and neat install

The best system you can get yourself is the Impco system which was designed with Mitsubishi, these systems pretty much integrate into the existing wiring and are a very clean and neat install

Agree - just had mine to "The GasMan" here in Sydney for software upgrade and check - so will be keen to see if consumption improves!

its bull sh*t that mitsubishi didnt make all the 380 models lpg compatible

its bull sh*t that mitsubishi didnt make all the 380 models lpg compatible

Perhaps not! see http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73396&p=1394418&highlight=#post1394418

where I noted:

My Owners Manual (p7) lists which engine types are suitable for LPG

Viz ".............fitted with an E41 option engine, or an E42 option engine with an N01 option, may be fitted with LPG fuel conversion. E42 option engines without an N01 option are NOT suitable for fitment of an LPG fuel conversion"


So a check of the complaince plate will help!

well he meant all engines should have been

my engine is not compatible

I did a run from my place to Clare last week during my annual leave - ended up doing 9.5L/100km on petrol on the way there (avg. speed 91kph) and 11.2L/100km on LPG on the way back (avg. speed 97kph)
Just over 100km each way.
The price of LPG on the day was 60.9cpl, which translated to $6.82/100km :)

well he meant all engines should have been

my engine is not compatible

mine isnt either mecha