For anybody interested, tomorrow i'm taking my car to hopefully be tuned by Pulse Racing in Menai, Sydney.

They had a look at the ecu and said they can tune it. Providing nothing goes wrong i should be picking up a much more efficient car on saturday morning. I'll post back in this thread with the outcomes and hopefully we will have a new tuner for you guys to go to in getting your stock ECU's tuned for high octane fuel.

Really excited about the result and hoping to crack 150fwkw when i get some lightweight wheels.

http://www.pulseracing.com.au/

IS Motor Racing at Rockdale will be able to tune stock ECU magnas from October onwards as well..

what does October have to do with it? lol

what does October have to do with it? lol


It has a long weekend..:)

Id say he will have the stuff require(software or whatever) to tune stock ECUs then...

can't u just give them the definitions?

whats the cost from these guys :)

can't u just give them the definitions?

They do need to buy the cable unless they already have one for working on Evos and Subarus... but that usually only takes a week at most to arrive after ordering from Evoscan in NZ, probably a bit longer if you order a 2.0 cable direct from Tactrix in the US...

Ok got the tune done. Gained 22kw atw.
My starting figure was 127kw and final was 149kw.
Interesting how much dynos vary as on the nsw dyno day i scored 137 stock. I will be going back to that dyno and getting another printout and it should be about 158atw.

very happy with the tune, IH8HSV had a drive and thinks the top end is similar to the 3.8 in his car.

The tune ended up costing $750

22kw@wheels is an amazing gain man! Ive got a stock TJ sports manual, wondering what gains i'l get, for sure wont be that much on mine because everything else is stock.

Anyway congrats on the tune mate:D

Ok got the tune done. Gained 22kw atw.
My starting figure was 127kw and final was 149kw.
Interesting how much dynos vary as on the nsw dyno day i scored 137 stock. I will be going back to that dyno and getting another printout and it should be about 158atw.

very happy with the tune, IH8HSV had a drive and thinks the top end is similar to the 3.8 in his car.

The tune ended up costing $750

it gets up and goes thats for sure it just doesnt throw you back into your seat like a 3.8 does

it gets up and goes thats for sure it just doesnt throw you back into your seat like a 3.8 does

Yeah but same with the stock ralliart, doesn't start to wiggle till about 3000.

I love driving this thing, just want to go out on cold nights and have some fun.

Ok got the tune done. Gained 22kw atw.
My starting figure was 127kw and final was 149kw.
Interesting how much dynos vary as on the nsw dyno day i scored 137 stock. I will be going back to that dyno and getting another printout and it should be about 158atw.

very happy with the tune, IH8HSV had a drive and thinks the top end is similar to the 3.8 in his car.

The tune ended up costing $750

Sounds good!.........I wouldnt bother spending more money on another dyno run, just for the sake of it.
Take it down the 1/4 @ see how she goes!

Sounds good!.........I wouldnt bother spending more money on another dyno run, just for the sake of it.
Take it down the 1/4 @ see how she goes!

Will do, before mmxi hopefully!. The only thing stopping this car from getting a quick time is me lol

Yeah but same with the stock ralliart, doesn't start to wiggle till about 3000.

I love driving this thing, just want to go out on cold nights and have some fun.

Thats a huge gain. U just need an TJ plus ecu hay?

all ecus should be tunable??

ECU needs to be TJ onwards (SH2 based processors), and car needs to be TH onwards (TH added the reflash connector)

Did this tune include flash to 98RON?

yeah it did. this tune failed... car is making less power now then ever... not sure what to say. im pretty devo

Go back to Pulse uleh!

yeah it did. this tune failed... car is making less power now then ever... not sure what to say. im pretty devo

What you mean failed? You went to another dyno and it pulled less power? Or it feels less ofter a week or two? Whats wrong? Maybe its in 'limp mode'?

Dont worry aboout the final figure between dynos. The main difference is how it feels and the difference between your 'pre-tune' baseline run.

Pulse are okay, but I think thier dyno reads pritty high..

yeah it did. this tune failed... car is making less power now then ever... not sure what to say. im pretty devo

What the hell does it matter dude? As long as you have a nice power delivery with no sudden drops who cares about peak power?

got a picture of the dyno graphs hayden?

I was gonna say 22kwatw thats a huge gain from a tuner that dosent work with magnas.

What do you mean failed..?

SuFz :ninja:

the car doesn't feel any faster. ill upload the comparison graphs soon. car never flet amazing. think its lost low down torque which u can't see on the graphs. top end is smooth and feels nicer but doesn't set you back in your seat as much.

What the hell does it matter dude? As long as you have a nice power delivery with no sudden drops who cares about peak power?

I paid $750 and it has no gain... so i care???

http://i56.tinypic.com/2mrz239.jpg
(Pulse Racing's Before and after graph) BLUE IS AFTER

http://i53.tinypic.com/35arcb6.jpg
(Port Hacking automotive's Before and after graph) RED IS AFTER

http://i56.tinypic.com/2mw9fzb.jpg
(Port Hacking Automotive AFR Graph) RED IS AFTER

Make what you will of these graphs. I'm not going to draw any speculation, the guys at pulse are friendly and i'm sure they will sort this out for me!

I think it is clear that the tune is the same on both graphs, one is just the same line but alot higher.
I don't think limp mode would show up as being the same tune unless i don't understand the way it works.

Hopefully i can get this sorted, not sure what has happened as of yet but am keen for any suggestions. Just can't wait to get the car back to pulse so they can have a tinker. All this time i was thinking that 20kw gain wasn't really much and if i wanted the car to feel stronger i would have to buy a new car..now with this showing the car is performing worse then expected i can't wait to see better results.

If pulse can pull this off i will be a very happy lad.

I just hope something happened between the tune being done and me picking up the car that screwed up the tune.. If it is a simple reflash that will regain me my killawasps i will be very happy!

but its just a number, and a number that will be different with every rolling road and especially on different days. The differences in atmospheric pressure between one day and another along with heat differences are enough, let alone the rolling roads being calibrated differently AND being different vendors. Like was said above, 1/4 mile will tell if the car is running right, not a piece of paper with a line on it.

I see what happened here - you went to Port Hacking a while back for a dyno run, read 138kW at the wheels.
Then you got an ECU tune at Pulse who said your power went from 127kW to 149kW (a good result) but you couldn't really feel the difference.
Then you went to Port Hacking and a new dyno run - their before & after dyno graphs are identical from 60 to 80kph, and then power actually drops off a little until 118kph when it is actually better than original until ?red line? at 137kph.

It does sound like Pulse made up a story and tried to pass it off as fact and you've caught them out. Very dodgy if that's the case, because their dyno graphs showed a big improvement.

Interestingly the Before and After graphs show that the fuel was leaned out quite a bit (if I've read it right). Are you getting better fuel economy at least?
Do you have ambient temperature details from the 2 Pt Hacking Dyno runs ? If it was 20C temp difference, this could account for about 5kW...

Will be interesting to know what Pulse say to explain this... :)
Good luck.

Dave the car feels slower. the graph just displays that. it was colder on the after run at port hacking.
fuel economy is about the same

What mods did you have done to gain 22kwatw?

My Ralliart had extractors, exhaust, CAI, 98 RON fuel and a Haltech Interceptor, and I picked up about 13kwatw. 22 seems outrageous unless you got cams and other stuff done aswell.

well clearly i gained nothing lol. only mod is hi flow cat

the mods u did wouldn't gain much on stock anyway. it may just push the power to the top end more.

well clearly i gained nothing lol. only mod is hi flow cat

the mods u did wouldn't gain much on stock anyway. it may just push the power to the top end more.

I gained around 13kwatw and a bit more mid range torque and drivability.

What mods do you have done to gain 22kwatw?

I gained around 13kwatw and a bit more mid range torque and drivability.

What mods do you have done to gain 22kwatw?

Yeah but you should gain 13kwatw with a tune on a stock ralliart...

and i didn't gain 22kwatw.. this is the whole point of this thread.

If you haven't done so already, find someone with an ECUFlash setup, pull the ROM and check the ignition map against the stock Ralliart ignition map.

If you haven't done so already, find someone with an ECUFlash setup, pull the ROM and check the ignition map against the stock Ralliart ignition map.

Could you tell me what's wrong with it?.. when compared to other tunes for 98?

Could you tell me what's wrong with it?.. when compared to other tunes for 98?

If the ignition map in the car is the same as the stock Ralliart ignition map, that's an issue in itself.

Given the stock Ralliart ignition map is for 91 RON, a 98 RON tune should show extra ignition advance over most parts of the map. How much advance to expect I can't really tell, as I've not actually seen a ROM from a 98 RON tuned car.

Yeah but you should gain 13kwatw with a tune on a stock ralliart...

and i didn't gain 22kwatw.. this is the whole point of this thread.

How would you gain 13kwatw with just a tune on a Ralliart? They're pretty well tuned as well as they can be from the factory. A 98 RON tune will probably net you 2-3kwatw.


Ok got the tune done. Gained 22kw atw.
My starting figure was 127kw and final was 149kw.
Interesting how much dynos vary as on the nsw dyno day i scored 137 stock. I will be going back to that dyno and getting another printout and it should be about 158atw.

very happy with the tune, IH8HSV had a drive and thinks the top end is similar to the 3.8 in his car.

The tune ended up costing $750

I'm confused. You said you gained 22kwatw - You went from 127kwatw to 149kwatw. Now you're saying you didn't gain 22kwatw? 149kwatw sounds on the higher end of a Ralliart with exhaust, extractors, CAI and a 98 RON tune.

How would you gain 13kwatw with just a tune on a Ralliart? They're pretty well tuned as well as they can be from the factory. A 98 RON tune will probably net you 2-3kwatw.



I'm confused. You said you gained 22kwatw - You went from 127kwatw to 149kwatw. Now you're saying you didn't gain 22kwatw? 149kwatw sounds on the higher end of a Ralliart with exhaust, extractors, CAI and a 98 RON tune.

2-3kwatw? Are you serious? I think the general consensus on this forum will disagree with you. If you read the posts between the first one and now you will probably understand this thread alot more.

I picked up about 15kW with a tune to 95 on my stock 3.5L by SKR.


Ultimately I don't think it made much difference (esp as I had no supporting mods) however WHAT I did notice is.. I could do 50 in 5th gear.. before the tune that would struggle and vibrate the engine.. smooth as post-tune.

I picked up about 15kW with a tune to 95 on my stock 3.5L by SKR.

Ultimately I don't think it made much difference (esp as I had no supporting mods) however WHAT I did notice is.. I could do 50 in 5th gear.. before the tune that would struggle and vibrate the engine.. smooth as post-tune.

This explains everything for me.

Carry on.

I picked up about 15kW with a tune to 95 on my stock 3.5L by SKR.


Ultimately I don't think it made much difference (esp as I had no supporting mods) however WHAT I did notice is.. I could do 50 in 5th gear.. before the tune that would struggle and vibrate the engine.. smooth as post-tune.

Going from Ralliart tune to your tune, I noticed a considerable increase of torque between 1500-4000rpm. However the top-end feels about the same.

it shouldn't matter who tunes the car. each tuner should adjust the ecu until maximum potential is reached.

it shouldn't matter who tunes the car. each tuner should adjust the ecu until maximum potential is reached.

you gotta remember that it doesn't always come down to the tune, but to the car's own capabilities. even if you copy a tune and fit it to another car, no two car's would have the same result...

you gotta remember that it doesn't always come down to the tune, but to the car's own capabilities. even if you copy a tune and fit it to another car, no two car's would have the same result...

Yeah but this is a dyno tune specific to one car.

Diciple, to answer your question the only thing they did was tune ecu to perform more efficiently on 98ron which should definatly add power although 22kw still seems a bit too high, hope im wrong though :happy:
I gained around 13kwatw and a bit more mid range torque and drivability.

What mods do you have done to gain 22kwatw?

Had a look at every review i could find of Pulse Racing and out of them all only 1 was negative and by the sounds of it, it was due to a lack of communication. The main man Paul travels overseas to tune cars for people. I'm hoping there is a simple explaination for my loss of power and i highly doubt Pulse have done a dodgey, but will let you guys know the outcome.

If you need any help, let me know..

Is this car an Auto or Manual? Pulse racing was done in 4th gear and other one in 3rd... 4th is correct for manual due to 1.031 ratio

however, as others have said... all that matters is it's feel as opposed to actual numbers. if you've dragged the car before 'tune' you'd know the cars before/after potential based on 60ft and crossing mph.


reason i mention this is because, based on your description of how it feels the Port hacking dyno looks to be the truer one... its easy to fudge dyno figures on SAE correction and unfortunately as many 'enthusiasts' don't really understand curves, a lot of workshops make money on the peak power bragging rights.

now.. the linear gain on the pulse dyno matches the AFR's stated in the Port hacking one which supports RPW's articles that power can be gained by simply raising fuel pressure... but it depends if there were timing adjustments on the ecu's as well.

Would you care to ask the tuner at which rpm points the ecu was tweaked or better yet, ask for the before/after ignition and mixture changes at those rpm points?

***EDIT***
hang on i read that wrong.. RED is after?? sooo.. pulse went for a leaner tune?

yea red is after. apparently its much better

hope you get it sorted soon dude.

Just my 2 cents worth. When I had mine tuned with SKR on 98RON, and couple of mods, i gained around 10kwatw at best. Even though it doesn't sound like much, it gained quite a bit of torque.

22kwatw sounds a bit unrealistic no matter who tunes it. Although I wish it for you it was true, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that figure came down in the end to a more realistic number.

hope you get it sorted soon dude.

Just my 2 cents worth. When I had mine tuned with SKR on 98RON, and couple of mods, i gained around 10kwatw at best. Even though it doesn't sound like much, it gained quite a bit of torque.

22kwatw sounds a bit unrealistic no matter who tunes it. Although I wish it for you it was true, I wouldn't be at all surprised if that figure came down in the end to a more realistic number.

If I remember correctly, this was because Steve Knight came to QLD and used one of the dynos here, and not his own to tune the car, right?. IIRC, all the cars done here in QLD were well down on figures produced in SA. Al's Evo was down quite a bit too wasn't it?

Everyone knows that its a near stock N/A car.. And exhaust and intake is not big mods. If in a turbo car expect to make more topend, but an N/A car, with no increase in compression or major change in airflow (cams??) wont be making big power..

At best, you should be gaining around 10kw up top, and possibly a little more through the midrange..

10kw isnt going to be super noticable. But you should feel something.. a bit more punch in the midrange/top should be noticable.

^^^very true.

Not expecting ways to keep it rising but i'd be happy if someone can tune and at least flatten the power curve from peak to redline.

My question to 'tuners' is... why lose power anywhere at all? Just looking Hayden's port hacking slip for example.. if a tuner gave me that, i wouldn't be happy with any losses before the peak. It shouldn't happen at all if the tuner actually 'tuned' individual rpm points... if the stock settings were better on that part then i would've left it.

IF Hayden only received minor gains after peak as opposed to the big ones he got.. then thats what it would typically look like if someone simply advanced distributor timing

i seriously have no idea. might need new spark plugs or something? the afr is better but its not getting power. all i know.

98ron?

Im gonna say it again, you have lost no power through 95% of the rev range, how often do you spend at max RPM?

Im gonna say it again, you have lost no power through 95% of the rev range, how often do you spend at max RPM?

like none of the time thats why the tune still making 130kw at over 6000 revs is useless.


Yes it's 98 ron.

Im gonna say it again, you have lost no power through 95% of the rev range, how often do you spend at max RPM?

Also that is not true. I feel alot of torque missing between 1500-2500 revs.

Also that is not true. I feel alot of torque missing between 1500-2500 revs.

Even though torque delivery isnt shown, there is nothing in the power delivery like sudden drops to suggest there is a torque hole. It is probably a placebo effect knowing your dyno run wasnt as successful

Even though torque delivery isnt shown, there is nothing in the power delivery like sudden drops to suggest there is a torque hole. It is probably a placebo effect knowing your dyno run wasnt as successful

Nah dave the dyno run only records from near 3000rpm so you can't tell. I really do think the car is struggling a little down low below the graph.

Nah dave the dyno run only records from near 3000rpm so you can't tell. I really do think the car is struggling a little down low below the graph.

Bahahaha its ALWAYS struggled down low!

not like it does now

When going up a hill in 5th at 100km/h i feel like i need to gear down. before i never even felt like i had to.

I might be able to have a look at your maps/tune for you on saturday morning?

I might be able to have a look at your maps/tune for you on saturday morning?

I'll be on my way to melbourne mate :(

Fixed. Sorta
http://i52.tinypic.com/2niqu6f.jpg

Car was apparently in sort of 'Limp' mode. He said he set the AFR to high so the car decided to stop itself from getting starved of fuel. This resulted in a 9kw drop.

Using the two dynos i ran on i can work out the tune gave me approx 6kw.
Paul from pulse said the car just doesn't have any more in it. he changed AFR and timing to every possibility but couldn't crack 149(on his dyno). He ended up richening the fuel mixture up a little from where it was on previous tune and this made the power very reliable. He ran the car about 6 times and each time it ran 148 or 149.
Car does feel pretty good to drive.

If you want more kilowatts, just put it on the SKR dyno. Easy 10kw or so there.

But a good result. Is 13 AFR not too lean on an NA engine?

Fixed. Sorta
http://i52.tinypic.com/2niqu6f.jpg

Car was apparently in sort of 'Limp' mode. He said he set the AFR to high so the car decided to stop itself from getting starved of fuel. This resulted in a 9kw drop.

Using the two dynos i ran on i can work out the tune gave me approx 6kw.
Paul from pulse said the car just doesn't have any more in it. he changed AFR and timing to every possibility but couldn't crack 149(on his dyno). He ended up richening the fuel mixture up a little from where it was on previous tune and this made the power very reliable. He ran the car about 6 times and each time it ran 148 or 149.
Car does feel pretty good to drive.

Ok so wat gain did u get from this tune now. From when it wasnt tuned?

Well it was set at 13.5 when the car went into it's random 'Limp' mode thing. It's at 13 now so dunno. Should be ok :s

Ok so wat gain did u get from this tune now. From when it wasnt tuned?

Not 100% sure but from a guestimate and the way it feels i'd say about 6kw.

Cheers zero. yeah it puts my mind at ease,

hayden, whats also important is the cars reliable & im sure its an awsome machine to drive, still overall a far superior engine than 95% of 6cyl's out there anyways.
Enjoy it mate;)

For AMC members in NSW, especially Sydney, remember that we can get our ECUs re-flashed at HItman Tuning in Penrith. I had my AWD TJ2 re-flashed for 95 RON last year, no other mods at all, and the improvement in performance could be felt instantly. It wasn't put on a dyno, and I couldn't care less - what really matters is how it goes on the road. Hitman also removed that annoying tendency for 5 speed autos to change up to 5th too soon.

I'm very happy with the result, so much so that I don't see the point in any further engine mods. The fact is, Mitsubishi put VERY conservative tuning in their stock ECUs. Hitman simply took full advantage of this.

Ken_L, thats great that you felt a difference even with 95 rather then 98 tun, your right in saying its how the car feels on the road thats important.
I might enquire for mine to get re-flashed, do you mind if I ask what they charge to get this done?

Ken_L, thats great that you felt a difference even with 95 rather then 98 tun, your right in saying its how the car feels on the road thats important.
I might enquire for mine to get re-flashed, do you mind if I ask what they charge to get this done?

Because mine was the first TJ2 they had done, they needed to crack the Mitsubishi code before re-flashing. The total cost ended up at $800. If you were to go there now with a TJ with the same ECU as mine, the re-flash would be more like $650. Steve Knight in SA has an advantage because he's an ex Mitsubishi engineer, so he has access to all the map information, but having someone local to do this job was much cheaper than a trip to Adelaide and back!

I settled for a 95RON tune because 98 is still hard to get outside metro areas. I wonder, though, whether going to a specific 98 RON tune would be much better, mainly because the stock compression ratio in Magnas is fairly modest?

^ You raise a good point. There isnt much point at all going to a 98RON tune as the compression just isnt high enough to warrant it and see the gains.

yes I know what you mean, definately better to get it done locally & 95 sounds the right tune for our TJ2's, probably only the ralliarts higher comp might benifit from 98 when tuned.
1st TJ2, well done for doing it mate, i'll definately call hitman soon & have a chat.
appreciate the info mate, thanks.
Because mine was the first TJ2 they had done, they needed to crack the Mitsubishi code before re-flashing. The total cost ended up at $800. If you were to go there now with a TJ with the same ECU as mine, the re-flash would be more like $650. Steve Knight in SA has an advantage because he's an ex Mitsubishi engineer, so he has access to all the map information, but having someone local to do this job was much cheaper than a trip to Adelaide and back!

I settled for a 95RON tune because 98 is still hard to get outside metro areas. I wonder, though, whether going to a specific 98 RON tune would be much better, mainly because the stock compression ratio in Magnas is fairly modest?

I had my TJ2 AWD tickled by Matt @ Hitman earlier this week, and also elected to go with a 95 RON tune (or more correctly, tune for the 94RON Shell E10 I routinely use). My car isn't stock like Ken's though, and Matt tweaked the auto shift points quite a bit to improve its behaviour.

That is one advantage of getting the tune done by Hitman if you have an auto - he has figured out a fair bit about the auto transmission part of the ECU (except for the torque convertor lock-up clutch operation :().

I was somewhat surprised to find out that my car and Ken_L's ostensibly identical car had different ROM versions though, as the TJ2 AWDs only had a short production run (7-8 months?). Just amongst the 3.5l TJ/TL/TW/KJ/KL/KWs, I now know of 10 auto ROM versions (of which 4 are for AWDs) and 3 manual ROM versions, not counting versions in exported cars. I would not be surprised if there were a couple more beyond that.

You're welcome, Magnaforce. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how much extra drivability Matt can give your car.

WytWun, that's great news! It does appear, though, that Mitsubishi ECUs are a complete dog's breakfast when it comes to consistency within model runs. For what it's worth, my AWD was one of the last TJ2s.

Auto shift point tweaking is certainly worth considering if you're getting a performance re-flash - I believe this is a somewhat overlooked side benefit. Also, once Matt has decyphered and re-flashed your ECU, for whatever state of development of your engine, more re-flashing can be easily done for any subsequent mods.

I wonder, though, whether going to a specific 98 RON tune would be much better, mainly because the stock compression ratio in Magnas is fairly modest?

How much did you gain with the 95 tune?

How much did you gain with the 95 tune?

As stated above, I didn't bother with the extra expense of dyno tuning, so I have no idea of actual numbers. Matt advised that such a basic tune-up, especially on a dead stock engine, would not be worth dyno time. He does have his own 2WD dyno, and has access to a 4WD dyno, so he can do dyno stuff if required. It's probably more relevant for more seriously modified engines.

Having said all that, I think even Matt was a bit taken aback by the obvious extra push in the back when the accelerator is floored. He said that there was heaps of extra ignition advance just waiting to be used and the AFR tables needed adjustment.

To try to answer your question, the car is simply more responsive, even at part throttle, in the normal rev band you tend to use for 99% of driving on public roads. I don't have to thrash it to high revs to get real world results. There is really good torque being pumped out at 3000 rpm and it is rarely necessary to go much beyond that. The exception is overtaking on two-lane country roads, where I floor it to spend the absolute minimum time on the wrong side of the road. The car is now much more willing to keep on accelerating, and it's pretty linear from 100 to 140 kph. I haven't needed more than that so far, but it feels like there's still a lot more left.

I don't pretend for a moment that my car would compete with the heavily modified cars owned by some AMC members - my car is still stock after all. But I have no doubt that the re-flashing and tuning for 95 RON has significantly improved the basic good performance of the Magna 3.5L engine to the extent that it still puts a smile on my dial, nearly one year since I had it done.

He said that there was heaps of extra ignition advance just waiting to be used and the AFR tables needed adjustment

When I went out to have my TL reflashed, Matt was apparently able to add 10 degrees of timing to several points in the ignition map, and even the AFRs to about 13:1 across the board. The factory tune is very conservative, naturally, to accommodate garbage fuel and poor maintenance. He was a little surprised that it made as much power as it did before he started remapping.

I know exactly what you mean when you describe it as being more responsive - it feels like a bigger engine. I didn't go looking for huge numbers, just an improvement. I have to say, it's the best $700 I ever spent.

When I went out to have my TL reflashed, Matt was apparently able to add 10 degrees of timing to several points in the ignition map, and even the AFRs to about 13:1 across the board. The factory tune is very conservative, naturally, to accommodate garbage fuel and poor maintenance. He was a little surprised that it made as much power as it did before he started remapping.

I know exactly what you mean when you describe it as being more responsive - it feels like a bigger engine. I didn't go looking for huge numbers, just an improvement. I have to say, it's the best $700 I ever spent.

This is pretty much what my experience was.

We have to remember that Mitsubishi mainly marketed the Magna as a normal everyday sedan. This means they had to allow for someone with no feel for a car to be towing a horse float up Mount Ousley on a 40 degree day, with crap fuel, and still get there with no complaint. In that context, a lazy big six ticks most of the boxes. For us, it means we get much more out of an ECU flash than if we had started with a car marketed as a performance model.

Spoke to matt today, he said he reflashed a magna recently to 98 & achieved extra 8kw@wheels average all the way from idle to redline but its possible to get almost as much gain also tuning to 95 but depends on the car, every car will react slightly different(even identical models) 8kw is an excellent gain at wheels when you consider thats very close to the different between sports/vrx & ralliarts :woot:
How much did you gain with the 95 tune?

Does this reflash cause any abnormal ecu problem's or Check engine light notice's?
Just installed some HM AWD headers and noticed a improvement but would like to get the ecu up to scratch to make use of the HM's
How long did does he need the vehicle for?

Sato74, aparently no problems like that at all & its completely undetectable, approx 4 hours matt said he needs the car for but he recomends taking the car in 1st (no charge I think)so he can do a quick read of your ecu just in case he hasnt tuned an ecu like yours(no obligation to go ahead with the work) that way he can work on the codes your one has($150 extra if your ecu isnt in his data base = $800), then book it in for another day to get the job done shortly after.

He also copies the original codes of your ecu & keeps them on file just incase you ever want to return back to standard;)

Does this reflash cause any abnormal ecu problem's or Check engine light notice's?
Just installed some HM AWD headers and noticed a improvement but would like to get the ecu up to scratch to make use of the HM's
How long did does he need the vehicle for?

There are no abnormal ECU issues or CELs when done properly. The ROM needs to be read from the ECU first (takes just a few minutes) so that its version number can be determined. If a definition has already been created, the tuning can begin immediately, otherwise a definition needs to be created - you'd need to ask Matt how long to allow before going back for the actual tune in this case.

I was able to read the ROM myself (have the OpenPort cable etc), and sent it to him when I booked the car in (a couple of weeks before the agreed date). I dropped the car off about 9.30am, and it was all done by 3.30pm (including Matt taking me for a spin in the car to demonstrate a couple of things, as he'd tweaked the auto shift points).

There are others capable of tuning TJ onwards Magnas using definitions such as these (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89584) - Evo tuners familiar with tuning the stock Evo 7/8/9 ECUs in particular. Those definitions are sufficient for many sets of tuning circumstances, but Matt has figured out a lot more about these ECUs than most and can therefore probably achieve more refined results than tuners using definitions such as mine.

I dropped the car off about 9.30am, and it was all done by 3.30pm (including Matt taking me for a spin in the car to demonstrate a couple of things, as he'd tweaked the auto shift points).

There are others capable of tuning TJ onwards Magnas using definitions such as these (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89584) - Evo tuners familiar with tuning the stock Evo 7/8/9 ECUs in particular. Those definitions are sufficient for many sets of tuning circumstances, but Matt has figured out a lot more about these ECUs than most and can therefore probably achieve more refined results than tuners using definitions such as mine.

Another little tweak he can do is remove the 210 kph speed limiter. Could be of interest to those who do the odd track day. But the best extra treatment is being able to adjust auto shift behaviour.

Sound's good
I was hoping that it would all be able to be done in 1 day as I am in Newcastle and he is at Penrith I was looking at a RDO and driving down there and letting he do his thing then drive home.
I should call him and work something out.
Cheers Guys

I might repeat some stuff here, but the more points, the better.
I have MorisTech Interceptor ECU. Gained some 15 kW @ FW, 98 oct gas. Check my mods for details. Also noticable increase in torque.
How ever - I noticed after, that "normal" driving seemed sluggish, poor torque. Installed AFR Gauge. Noticed AFR was quite rich, cos Tuner did WOT tune but also his best to simulate part throttle AFR. Since I have the MT ECU and Notebook and required software, commenced on-road tuning and leaned to ~15,5 at under 10% TPS. And it was pulling so much better than previous 13,5 - 14 was. My engine seems to like lean AFR on low RPM and TPS.
High RPM and TPS of course is linear from the lean to just below 13. 12,8 is considered as the "power AFR". Consumption is good.
Also, have seen some Maps where the whole RPM/TPS area was made 14,7. Yeah, good one!
Timing advance was ruffly from 5-7 deg more than STD ECU. Same advance should not be used over the whole RPM/TPS (or load) range.
I'm guessing as a rule of thumb, 1 oct gives 1 kW - once correctly tuned. Therefore, going from crap to 98 would give you ~8 kW.
The beauty of my MT ECU is that I can keep changing tunes or even go back to 91 oct (oh why should I!!) without visits to a Tuner.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of an interceptor unit is that it's a "piggyback" electronic device which modifies signals between the ECU and engine hardware. This is probably the only practical way of improving ignition advance, AFR, etc without re-flashing the ECU.

For those who can make their own adjustments with these units, and are keen to try other performance mods as time / money permit, an interceptor unit is obviously popular. However, as an engineer, I think re-flashing the factory ECU, or replacing it altogether with a third party ECU, is a "cleaner" way to re-tune an engine. Also, I haven't heared of anyone tweaking auto transmission change points via an interceptor.

As usual, it's "horses for courses". By far the biggest obstacle to re-flashing stock Magna ECUs has been the lack of people who can do it, hence the interest when someone like Matt Leicher or Steve Knight demonstrates they can do a decent job.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of an interceptor unit is that it's a "piggyback" electronic device which modifies signals between the ECU and engine hardware. This is probably the only practical way of improving ignition advance, AFR, etc without re-flashing the ECU.

For those who can make their own adjustments with these units, and are keen to try other performance mods as time / money permit, an interceptor unit is obviously popular. However, as an engineer, I think re-flashing the factory ECU, or replacing it altogether with a third party ECU, is a "cleaner" way to re-tune an engine. Also, I haven't heared of anyone tweaking auto transmission change points via an interceptor.

As usual, it's "horses for courses". By far the biggest obstacle to re-flashing stock Magna ECUs has been the lack of people who can do it, hence the interest when someone like Matt Leicher or Steve Knight demonstrates they can do a decent job.

Correct, Interceptor (I/C) is also known as "piggyback" or something as stupid as “chip”- I just don't like non-technical terms like that. Besides, I/C is actually the model/name of this MT unit. They sell complete ECUs as well. And it (I/C) is really a “box”, not a microprocessor chip…
And what means "Re-Flash"? Aren't terms like "Re-Map" or "Re-Program" or something more technical better? Ahh, the issues of language and terms hehe.

Also correct, no I/C type device (to my knowledge) can alter Auto'box features. They mainly do as you described above.

I don't quite understand why would it be better to tune the STD ECU rather than using an I/C type. I have never had any reliability or function issues, nor have I heard of any. Obviously it is recommended to use good quality products.

And you are absolutely correct with the lack of Tuners (and knowledge) who can access STD ECU and re-map it. Hopefully situation gets better - but it still doesn't help if one adds on mods and re-tune is required (=cost!). Also, I like to be in control of the tune.

Additionally, I would like to say, that using higher octane fuel it self doesn't make more power. It merely allows one to advance timing and that is what increases the engine power. If engine has a Knock Sensor, no such tuning is required, of course. Makes me wonder that Gen 2 Magnas have K/S, but Gen 3 doesn't. Oh, why!!

I don't quite understand why would it be better to tune the STD ECU rather than using an I/C type. I have never had any reliability or function issues, nor have I heard of any. Obviously it is recommended to use good quality products.

And you are absolutely correct with the lack of Tuners (and knowledge) who can access STD ECU and re-map it. Hopefully situation gets better - but it still doesn't help if one adds on mods and re-tune is required (=cost!). Also, I like to be in control of the tune.

Additionally, I would like to say, that using higher octane fuel it self doesn't make more power. It merely allows one to advance timing and that is what increases the engine power. If engine has a Knock Sensor, no such tuning is required, of course. Makes me wonder that Gen 2 Magnas have K/S, but Gen 3 doesn't. Oh, why!!

It's partly a philosophical issue - re-mapping the standard ECU requires no new hardware, maintains the whole electronic management thing as simple as possible, etc. An interceptor unit may indeed do what you want with respect to final engine performance, but it's effectively an ECU-attached-to-an ECU, if you get what I mean. As long as it's reliable, however, I realise many people couldn't care less about the added complexity. Fair enough.

I must agree completely about the knock sensor issue. My old TR Magna had one, and I could feel the extra torque when using premium fuel. I was absolutely gobsmacked when I got a TJ Magna and found it had no knock sensor. Mitsubishi must have had a severe cheapness attack to go backwards like that!

And what means "Re-Flash"? Aren't terms like "Re-Map" or "Re-Program" or something more technical better? Ahh, the issues of language and terms hehe.

Reflash is just a generic term for writing back changes into the flash memory nearly universally used on current microcontroller hardware. When you save the changes you make to your interceptor's maps, you are actually updating (ie "reflashing") the flash memory in the unit.


I don't quite understand why would it be better to tune the STD ECU rather than using an I/C type. I have never had any reliability or function issues, nor have I heard of any. Obviously it is recommended to use good quality products.

Mostly the advantage is that you are directly controlling the ECU's response, particularly as there are many functions that the stock ECU controls (such as EGR operation and EGR related timing advance) that most interceptors don't attempt to control.

Where the knowledge about a stock ECU's internals have advanced far enough (such as with the Evo 8 onwards) you have at least as much control as would be available with a commercial aftermarket standalone ECU.


And you are absolutely correct with the lack of Tuners (and knowledge) who can access STD ECU and re-map it. Hopefully situation gets better - but it still doesn't help if one adds on mods and re-tune is required (=cost!). Also, I like to be in control of the tune.

For cars with unmodifiable ECUs (eg TE and earlier Magnas), or cars where the ECU internals haven't been reverse engineered, interceptors are the only option. TJ onwards 3rd gens are supported at the moment with publicly available information as well as could be done with most interceptors. There are one or two people with better information, but that info isn't public.

Where available, direct ECU control is also usually cheaper than having to buy an interceptor unit.


If engine has a Knock Sensor, no such tuning is required, of course. Makes me wonder that Gen 2 Magnas have K/S, but Gen 3 doesn't. Oh, why!!

$$

Not that the difference between high and low octane factory maps is that significant in many cars, if the evidence in the Australian made USDM Diamantes (which do have knock sensors) is anything to go by.

Even with the latest technology, electronic knock sensing still isn't as good as human hearing so reliance on it in an ECU means you can't push the tune as close to the limits as with a careful tune with no knock sensor. Certainly is more convenient when it comes to choosing a bowser though...

I'm glad you didn't start the flashing issue with long trench coat stories... Matter of lingo anyway, easy term for large public to handle.

Fortunately my TE has no EGR. Actually I wouldn't know if the MT IC would have additional wiring instructions for EGR or any other such component. Assume it would. Regardless, IC only alters ignition and fuel (in my case). Leaves all other STD ECU functions alone.
But I would definitely tune a STD ECU rather than an added IC if I could. I.e., had the harnesses, software etc to do so. But I don't of course.

Sure it was a cost issue with lack of K/S, like many other things in these and similar Aussie Spec cars. Well, the power increase using hi vs. low oct fuel only at our power range is barely noticeable, perhaps up to 8 kW. But depending on other mods, total gain is much more and noticeable for sure, as I have said before. Whether anything is worth the $, is of course a matter of eternal debates.

I have a problem with the term IC for Interceptor. I prefer piggy back ECU.

In my lingo, IC = Inter Cooler and we really shouldn't double up on abbreviations. It confuses me.

I'm strongly interested in getting a tune, just not not convinced that $600+ is the best way to go.
But if it could save me 3L/100km, then it would pay for itself in 15,000kms. hmmm...

Do mods... THEN CHOON! :D

I'm strongly interested in getting a tune, just not not convinced that $600+ is the best way to go.
But if it could save me 3L/100km, then it would pay for itself in 15,000kms. hmmm...

I paid $850 for the 95 RON tune for my AWD, and I don't regret a single cent. The extra performance can really be felt under the right foot.

I think there's a psychological thing going on here - A re-mapping of the stock ECU doesn't change the appearance of the engine, no extra cool hardware has been installed, etc. So you don't appear to be getting anything exciting for your money, compared with, say, a loud muffler or set of extractors and so on. However, if you can see past appearances, it's difficult to think of any other set of mods that will deliver this much extra grunt for the same money.

But if it could save me 3L/100km, then it would pay for itself in 15,000kms. hmmm...

Being realistic, you won't get anything like 3l/100km. For a 95RON tune, with luck you might gain 0.5l/100km in highway/freeway driving. Can't judge what a 98RON tune might yield.

I'm with Ken_L though - the drivability gains are worth it to me, irrespective of minor fuel economy improvements.

Everyone's car is different - the 3L/ 100 might be possible with my car. My average for the past 20,000kms is 15.8L / 100km.
If a tune would let my car average around 12.8 L/100km around town, it would save 3L or about $4 every 100km and pay for itself in 15,000kms.
I can't comment on highway driving - I don't think there is such a thing within 50km of Sydney - even the AMC cruise to the central coast didn't qualify, but maybe that's just my driving style.:)

Everyone's car is different - the 3L/ 100 might be possible with my car. My average for the past 20,000kms is 15.8L / 100km.
If a tune would let my car average around 12.8 L/100km around town, it would save 3L or about $4 every 100km and pay for itself in 15,000kms.
I can't comment on highway driving - I don't think there is such a thing within 50km of Sydney - even the AMC cruise to the central coast didn't qualify, but maybe that's just my driving style.:)

Yes, cars are different. Tyres & alignment can make as big a difference to economy as tune, too.

That said, 15.8l/100km for a TJ AWD seems on the high side... my routine running in Canberra, which is not much stop/start but mostly short trips where the engine usually just gets to operating temp at the end of trip, was typically around 13.8l/100km on ULP and about 14.3l/100km on E10. I've not been running the tune long enough to establish a consistent average, but I think it is a smidgin better (probably around 14.1-14.2l/100km) even with enjoying the extra responsiveness...

My AWD is typically in the high 13s after the tune, compared to mid 14s (L/100km) before the tune, for Sydney suburban driving. Freeway driving is usually dead on 10 L/100km. I got a much more dramatic improvement in economy after replacing a failed oxygen sensor a couple of years ago.

Let's face it, if we were really after fantastic fuel economy, we wouldn't be driving Maganas, especially AWDs. Like WytWun, I just enjoy the responsive way they drive, particularly once the ECU tune has been sharpened up.

IMO i wouldnt bother screwing around with the factory tune unless you do some mods. At minimum, Extractors and exhaust.

IMO i wouldnt bother screwing around with the factory tune unless you do some mods. At minimum, Extractors and exhaust.

Well, to each his own, as they say. I did it mainly because standard unleaded was supposed to be phased out this year and I wasn't going to fall for the E10 con. Since that committed me to using at least 95 RON, I thought I may as well get the full benefit of it. The fact that the performance was improved even more than I was expecting was simply cream on top.

I hate to dig up an ancient thread but does anyone know if hitman tuning is still around? I've had a look and it seems they don't advertise anymore.
I'm looking for an AWD tune in Sydney for a TW, the guys recommended in this thread in rockdale say that they can't do it, I've called Pulse Racing to see if they can.
Does anyone have any other recommendations? I've done a bit of a search but can't find anything.

Bump again for updates/comments.

My new ride (stock TL awd) could use a bit more power.

Best to find a member in your respective state that can do it. We have quite a few in SA including Steve Knight that can do timing and fuel map tuning with little equipment at all.

I've at least got a rom for any magna that I've come in contact with. lol

More specificly, I was wondering if the "Hitman" workshop is still trading.

I am having trouble finding it on the 'net.

Any NSW/Penrith locale members know?

*Searches for 2 minutes*... :io:

Hitman Injection Tuning: 0417 259 391

Thanks for your help Ammerty.

I have called the number but, as yet, I have not received a response from him.

was looking for the same guy in Penrith for my awd, does not look like he is around anymre, used to be in coombes drive going by his history. Shame if we have lost his knowledge

I think Hitman might be MIA, and now may be referred to as "Missman" rather than "Hitman".

I think Hitman might be MIA, and now may be referred to as "Missman" rather than "Hitman".

Shame

Dont worry about Hitman, contact Dave aka Merlin 0419 140 226. Located at Northern Beaches, best tuner i used to date (and yes i did use Hitman aswell).

Dont worry about Hitman, contact Dave aka Merlin 0419 140 226. Located at Northern Beaches, best tuner i used to date (and yes i did use Hitman aswell).

I hope he helps them more than he helped me. What a joke.

I even offered to pay for your ROM seeing as he spent so much time on it, not that it would even be perfect for my car, and he has never gotten back to me.

So I've built my own :)

What about any Vic tuners

I am over sending customers over to SKR and then Steve telling them not to let me near their cars as I will copy their tune and sell it to others. I have never sold a SKR tune and never will but hey, some people get some stupid idea into their heads and can not be told. Seems he thinks only a rare few can get an openport cable and copy a rom......is a shame as he knows what he is doing.

Want to get the Pajero done as it has the 3.8 and would like to have someone here in Vic who can do the tunes on the conversions I do.

Andrei, this guy Dave, what is he like with his work.

Hitman now works for Haltech