Hi, did a search but found nothing..

Ive had my TF wagon for a few years now and the km's are up to 248K:eek2:
Its still going reasonably well but is leaking alot of oil, and blowing alot of smoke on take off after sitting at the lights for only a minute or so..

Not really interested in throwing more money at the old girl as ive spent a bit on her over the years.

I was pretty sure id be getting a BA Falcon wagon mostly because im over the oil leaks, but after much investigation they are extremely poor quality and have upset many owners.

Which leads me to my question, is it worth upgrading to the last of the Magnas?

Will the 3.5 give me the same oil leaking/burning troubles as my 3.0?
While my auto hasn't ever given up the ghost, are the later ones anymore durable?
Is the 3.5 much thirstier then the 3.0? (i do mostly hwy kays for work)

Id really like to stick with the Mitsubishi as mine gives a great ride, its good on fuel, has a huge cargo area and has never let me down apart from a couple of flat batteries!

I really like the 2 tone dash in the later models and the updated radio/air con cluster, my only gripe is the rear seat doesnt offer much leg room for the growing kids..
Really like the 380 but no wagon option rules it out for me...:(


Any opinions and experiences will be appreciated and taken on board.

Cheers.


PS: I was a member on here a few years ago but lost my log in details and access to my email address and have only just now rejoined.

Will the 3.5 give me the same oil leaking/burning troubles as my 3.0?
Common problem with the Magnas is their rocker covers, cam plate O rings, and tube seals leaking. But be aware, this will happen to most cars over time, the Magnas are just well known for it. Blowing smoke? another common problem for Magnas around your age (in km), i would say your valve stem seals have gone, that is a big job, and can be expensive.

While my auto hasn't ever given up the ghost, are the later ones anymore durable?
As long as it has been taken care of properly, no neutral bangies, the trans should be fine. Check the colour of the fluid on inspection of your new magna. Red and/or slightly clear is a good sign. Black/ brown is a sign of the fluid getting worn and old.

Is the 3.5 much thirstier then the 3.0? (i do mostly hwy kays for work)
Highway k's, you will notice very little difference. There will be a difference, but nothing note worthy. It wont throw your weekly budget out.

Hope this helps :)

my only gripe is the rear seat doesnt offer much leg room for the growing kids..Supposedly the TL/TW modified the seats a bit to add a bit more rear leg room. As to how much more, dunno, but it was noted in several reviews at the time.

TLs have a really good amount of standard features too. Such as climate air, c/control, tiptronic auto (in the auto option of course), rear a/c vents, electric driver's seat, 4 airbags and power windows all round. Tell me if I've missed any guys. Also the 3.5 has a fair bit more grunt and doesn't use much more fuel as lawlmagna mentioned.

Thanks for the replies guys, its good to hear about them having more leg room in the rear!

Could definitely use a bit more grunt from take off, its always been unresponsive down low, on the freeway it really goes well but could use the extra power when towing the trailer/bike up in the mountains!

You'll also find the TL/TW to be much safer than the previous third gen's. They are equipped with SRS side airbags as well as dual airbags, TCL, ABS as standard. In the end it meant that the car almost got a 4 star ANCAP safety rating versus the 2 stars that the TJ's got.

Lawlmagna has hit the nail on the head with all of your questions. Those oil leaks are smack on correct - I've had them and so has a heap of other owners. I'm yet to find a magna in the wreckers that doesn't have oil all over the back heatshield and around the cam shaft cap. I'd dare say that a 255km TF with hardened stem seals would use more fuel that a (likely) newer TL with less km's. My TJ (has same engine and almost same weight) uses about 1L more than the "official" fuel economy ratings which were 10.5L/100km in the inner suburbs. If you're concerned about fuel costs then maybe consider a LPG dedicated version or doing a conversion? Being a wagon means its probably easier to find a fleet lpg version.

I would say a TF -> TL is a modest upgrade. Its not massively different but it is much better. Better features, better safety, better built & better engine - the 3.5L is a better more lower torquier engine and in the TL's they came with the No.5 cams so they ended up with 155kw at the fly. Well respected and used engine. By this stage things were getting a bit tight with budgeting at MMAL so some corners were cut - e.g. rear door power switches seem shoehorned in, less soundproofing, little bit cheaper plastics but seat material seems alot stronger - yet to see many wear patches, tears etc on TL's seats - TJ's seem not to hold up so well.

If you can stand the look of them then I'd say go for it. I'd probably still take one over a BA but not a BF though. By around 2006 production quality significantly increased for Australian made cars.

Talking out your ass again. Wtf is a number 5 cam?!

Tcl was not standard on lesser models.

Tl's will use more fuel, but ithas nothing to do with engine age. They added 150kg of weight over the TJ models to increase safety.

Tbh, you're better off with either a high spec TJ, or a 380 if yu want to stick with mits.

There are a few things and improvements i like on the TL, after spending the weekend detailing one. I prefer the window switches in the middle for sure, and the standard seats were way better than the standard seats in my TJ. The dash was also prettier and centre console looked cleaner.

BUT, it doesnt feel as solid as the older magnas. I have had a 1995 TS and a 2002 TJ, both of which seemed far more solid and better put together.

The newer 2003+ TL vs a 1999 TF is reason enough to change IMO, with a newer drivetrain and better reliability in the long run.

Talking out your ass again. Wtf is a number 5 cam?!

Tcl was not standard on lesser models.

Tl's will use more fuel, but ithas nothing to do with engine age. They added 150kg of weight over the TJ models to increase safety.

Tbh, you're better off with either a high spec TJ, or a 380 if yu want to stick with mits.

Seems he has had a good teacher then Dean as you have made talking out of your ass an artform......

No, the ES does not have TCL but the LS does

As for more fuel, they did add weight but my TE with ALL TW running gear has if anything dropped a little fuel consumption. Remember Dean, car is a lot newer, better tuning, better parts, even the motor itself while for all intents was the same, things do make subtle changes.

Also the OP gets ABS, SRS x 4, Pre Tensioned seat belts.

For someone wanting a car to do up and make something personal out of a TF is a great cheap start, for someone wanting a little more safety for the family and something a little bit more modern and a lot more feature packed STD then the TL/W is the way to go

Also Wagons do use a little more fuel (this from PERSONAL experience not from the internet)

Talking out your ass again. Wtf is a number 5 cam?!

Tcl was not standard on lesser models.

Tl's will use more fuel, but ithas nothing to do with engine age. They added 150kg of weight over the TJ models to increase safety.

Tbh, you're better off with either a high spec TJ, or a 380 if yu want to stick with mits.

Once again your delightful attitude shines through again. Is it any wonder you have so many troubles with members & admins here. That attitude is completely un-necessary. Learn some respect - do you even know what that word means?

Stop blowing things out of proportion. You know I made a spelling mistake and was refering to the 6 series cam's that were fitted to the Series II Tj's.

Engine wear does have an effect on fuel usage, and if you would've bothered to properly read my post you would've seen that I was making a comparison between a 250km 3L engine that has harden stem seals, oil leaks and is probably toward the end of its life (i.e. read OP's comment about slow take offs) to a TL that is less than 10 years old and likely to have alot less km's (average for these cars sits around 150-160km).

And the last comment is really personal choice. Like Mal suggested it comes down to what you're looking for. Personally if the TL didn't look so ugly then I would take that over a TJ - they're far more safer and have alot more features. I like the interior layout better - especially in the higher models.

lol

Dont forget the tl-w has a better steering rack also.

lol

Dont forget the tl-w has a better steering rack also.

Umm yes, I sort of forgot that along with the revised handbrake cables, the side impact sensors and a host of other small annoying little things lol

All in all

One side of the scale,

Everyday 250k old TF with issues Vs 5 year newer TL with all of the above AND most likely many less issues and KM's

I know which one would win it for me if I was just looking for a daily driver and had no real intent to do many mods

What is better about the steering rack in the TL -TW? and can it be fitted to a KH Verada? cheers



lol

Dont forget the tl-w has a better steering rack also.

tiptronic auto (in the auto option of course)Just a note that ALL wagons were auto. The OP said he was after a wagon, which rules out the 380.

Economy-wise, mine seems a bit thirstier than I'd like around town, but for highway/freeway it's down around the 10k/l (10l/100k) mark. Then again, the poorer economy could be a little to do with it's ability to accelerate quite smartly and smoothly, so I probably do get tempted a bit too much to negate the smart-arses who try to sneak up the inside at the lights.

Really like the 380 but no wagon option rules it out for me...:(








Thanks for all the comments guys, but lets just stay on topic here! :0
To clear some things up...
Am i reading right?
No one likes the TL front? I didn't really like it when it first came out but now i love it, for me, comparing it to the older models is night and day, i think it really makes them look dated.

Yes the safety is a big plus for me as well, i don't even have airbags in mine so they will be a welcome addition!

FWIW, i think the high km's do really add to the fuel consumption, its down on power so you need more right foot to get them moving, there is a 'sweet spot' between a new engine (not run in) and a worn out engine down on compression.

Would be great to get one on LPG, but i think id put it on one if there is any of the grant left.

The better models ive seen on carsales.com for around 8900K-10000K have had around 90,000-125 000kms, this is the category im seeking.

cheers

Do what I'm planning if you're handy with a spanner - buy an LPG system out of a wrecked Magna, fit it all yourself.

You just get the fitter to install the gas line, connect it, test it and certify it (assuming you used good bits and did it properly!). You may even end up making a little after the grant ;-)

Mitsfix sells the occasional kit I think, or you could look for one at the self serve wreckers (take photos as you pull it out so you have a fitment guide).

What is better about the steering rack in the TL -TW? and can it be fitted to a KH Verada? cheers
I beleive it was beefed up a little....better feel around centre....better pump.
Edit...Yes will fit.....just dont use one from an AWD as they mount slightly different.


Thanks for all the comments guys, but lets just stay on topic here! :0
To clear some things up...
Am i reading right?
No one likes the TL front? I didn't really like it when it first came out but now i love it, for me, comparing it to the older models is night and day, i think it really makes them look dated.

Yes the safety is a big plus for me as well, i don't even have airbags in mine so they will be a welcome addition!

FWIW, i think the high km's do really add to the fuel consumption, its down on power so you need more right foot to get them moving, there is a 'sweet spot' between a new engine (not run in) and a worn out engine down on compression.

Would be great to get one on LPG, but i think id put it on one if there is any of the grant left.

The better models ive seen on carsales.com for around 8900K-10000K have had around 90,000-125 000kms, this is the category im seeking.

cheers

Agree with you about the looks. Not sure if any one mentioned the revised suspension rates for a bit "sportier" ride.

Keep looking, i picked up a TW wagon with 110k , full dealer history for $5k a few weeks back. Needed reg., tyres & brake work....point these sort of things out to bring the price down!
Its a quiet time now for moving cars with Christmas coming on....should help give you the upper hand.

No one likes the TL front? I didn't really like it when it first came out but now i love it, for me, comparing it to the older models is night and day, i think it really makes them look dated.It's quite definitely grown on me. When it was first released, the word "detest" couldn't capture my feeling enough. Thought the TJ would be the last viable Magna for me. But in the last few years, the TJ's look seems to have aged (save for some that still look "aggressive"), while the TL/TW is more at home with the proliferation of swept headlights. Yeah can do with some mods to make it look a bit better, but the basis is more acceptable nowadays.

My TL wagon was advertised (dealer) for $10K with 75K on the clock, traded the old TS in and got it for $7.5K; they didn't even look at the TS, didn't matter what condition it was in. More than I would have gotten privately, and I probably would have had to have spent $1K getting it sellable on top of that. And wasn't worth stripping out all the extras I'd added in.

No one likes the TL front? I didn't really like it when it first came out but now i love it, for me, comparing it to the older models is night and day, i think it really makes them look dated.



Mate, I love my TL's front. And you hit the nail right on the head, it makes the others look very dated. Look at my albums in "my car with other magna's" I have my TL, my mate's TL and my project TJ all in the same shot. Although my TJ looks good, I love the look of my TL so much more! I even loved it from the day it came out (probably because I was quite young when it came out haha but still love it)

Do what I'm planning if you're handy with a spanner - buy an LPG system out of a wrecked Magna, fit it all yourself.

You just get the fitter to install the gas line, connect it, test it and certify it (assuming you used good bits and did it properly!). You may even end up making a little after the grant ;-)

Mitsfix sells the occasional kit I think, or you could look for one at the self serve wreckers (take photos as you pull it out so you have a fitment guide).

Just try and find someone to compliance your work!! I was going to provide 2nd hand parts to about 20 installers and not one of them was willing to do it. You have no chance unless you know a lpg installer well enough. Ways to cut corners with costs is to use a 2nd hand tank and get it restamped for around $150. Jollys sell tanks for around $60 so for around $200 you could have a tank that is guaranteed for 10 years and at least $500-700 cheaper than if you purchased it brand new.

woops, repost. damn optus iphones...

I found two fitters in Melbourne who would do it. They wouldnt certify crappy work and wanted to do te critical final connections and gas lines which is fair enough. But happy to let me bolt in the bulk of it.

Didn't "know" them, maybe they just decided I knew what I was doing? Dunno...

So long as the tank is within date, they can't knock that back.

Anyway, slightly off topic. Short version is these days a big V6 can be a liability to the wallet - LPG is really required on these things!!

Once again your delightful attitude shines through again. Is it any wonder you have so many troubles with members & admins here. That attitude is completely un-necessary. Learn some respect - do you even know what that word means?

Stop blowing things out of proportion. You know I made a spelling mistake and was refering to the 6 series cam's that were fitted to the Series II Tj's.

Engine wear does have an effect on fuel usage, and if you would've bothered to properly read my post you would've seen that I was making a comparison between a 250km 3L engine that has harden stem seals, oil leaks and is probably toward the end of its life (i.e. read OP's comment about slow take offs) to a TL that is less than 10 years old and likely to have alot less km's (average for these cars sits around 150-160km).

And the last comment is really personal choice. Like Mal suggested it comes down to what you're looking for. Personally if the TL didn't look so ugly then I would take that over a TJ - they're far more safer and have alot more features. I like the interior layout better - especially in the higher models.

Im pritty shore mals just sick of people on this forum talking and giving advice when its false or full of shit. If i were him dealing with this everyday i would get frusterated aswell. TL heaps better overall car. Should use more fuel then the 3.0l but.

Im pritty shore mals just sick of people on this forum talking and giving advice when its false or full of shit. If i were him dealing with this everyday i would get frusterated aswell. TL heaps better overall car. Should use more fuel then the 3.0l but.

I'm not having a go at Mal mate. Far from it. I'm 100% annoyed at Life - who cannot seem to intelligently respond to differing opinion to that of his own, so instead he resorts to insulting and belittling the opposing party. We all have different opinions and knowledge but that is no excuse for being rude and disrespectful - intelligent and intellectual people are able to discuss these differences with respect and without making the other party feel intimidated and belittled.

And as I said before - Mal and I were making a comparison between an 15yo tired engine with 250km's on the clock, hardened stem seals, oil leaks etc versus a newer more sophisticated engine with much less wear and how this would make a difference to fuel economy. Of course if we were comparing a brand new TF to a TL then yes the TL would loose out with economy but we cannot do this as these cars have serious age gaps between them.

What is better about the steering rack in the TL -TW? and can it be fitted to a KH Verada? cheers

IMHO the TW steering rack has a much sharper feel than the earlier models. Climate is nice too.

You can't see the front from inside the car ;-)

i had a TL (and a 380vr-x) before going back to a TJ. I really like the look of the tl/tw but disliked some of the changes. no passenger side door lock. no boot lock, power window switches in the middle console.i preferred it on the door. ashtray gone(like to put my change here) and 12v plug moved to the console. very hard to change front bulbs.

Thanks for all the comments guys, but lets just stay on topic here! :0
To clear some things up...
Am i reading right?
No one likes the TL front? I didn't really like it when it first came out but now i love it, for me, comparing it to the older models is night and day, i think it really makes them look dated.

Yes the safety is a big plus for me as well, i don't even have airbags in mine so they will be a welcome addition!

FWIW, i think the high km's do really add to the fuel consumption, its down on power so you need more right foot to get them moving, there is a 'sweet spot' between a new engine (not run in) and a worn out engine down on compression.

Would be great to get one on LPG, but i think id put it on one if there is any of the grant left.

The better models ive seen on carsales.com for around 8900K-10000K have had around 90,000-125 000kms, this is the category im seeking.

cheers

I saw a TF Sports on carsales with 75k on it, which u wld pick up for 8 k. To me , going from a TF to a TJ, I thought the TF was a better car, if u had the money left to put a 5 speed auto in it, that wld be even better, of course that's not wagon. The Tl does have extra safety gear and TCL in the up models, but it's more or less the same car with a different front end near as I can tell. If u can find an older one with low km's I'd go there

Nah for me its just as important to have a newer looking car in the driveway as it is to have a heap of extra safety features.

Would never consider doing a gearbox conversion on a car like this or even consider buying one that had already been done...

Sorry to dig up an old thread but i thought i would let you's know what direction i went with upgrading the TF...

I had a budget of 10k to spend and what ever else i could get for trading in the TF, which was important because i really didn't think i could sell the TF to anybody...

Reasons being, the oil leaks were out of control, a cloud of oil smoke would exit the pipe on start-up and on take-off, the external pulleys were making a loud noise especially noticeable on a cold start-up and under load (already spent $170 to have fixed/replaced but the noise still remained) car had excessive play in the steering at speed and was difficult to correct which i suspect was the control arm bushes as my wife's car had the same problems/symptoms and was now chewing out my front left tyre, harsh vibration when parking/turning which im guessing was a engine/gearbox mount, the back-light in the radio died, the roof lining had dropped now over the entire roof and was now touching our heads! A harsh thump/thud when changing to reverse/park etc, rear shocks/springs needing replacing, huge scratch in front screen from a stone getting stuck under the wiper blade...



Anyway that's all i can think of for now, so after much looking there was very little to look at with the km's i wanted, and if that fit the bill they were on the far north coast!


So my dad suggested i look at the CH lancer, which i did and found there is excellent value for money to be had with them, had a look at a few and settled on this 2007 ES wagon-

Only had 64,888km's and they had $12,000 on the window, they only wanted to pay $1000 for the wagon but i insested i wasnt going over my budget so they put the trade in up to $2000 and the deal was done!:facejump:


http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/3884/imag01051.jpg



It has a 3year/60,000 km warranty (Toyota dealership)
2.4 Mivec engine which gets up to highways far more easily then the 3.0L TF ever could, first tank returned an average of 8.1/100kms with a mix of driving with a/c on and alot of hill climbs with the family on-board so im pretty sure it will get into the 7's on a long trip which is very good given the power it has.

Ive lost a fair bit of space in the cargo area but it does have more leg room in the back which is good.
I just need to find a VRX center consloe with the armrest in it and ill be happy as the ES doesnt seem to come with one!

Thanks for reading.