Hi guys,
Well I have been thinking lately that my 4 speed 'box is a bit dull and gappy. Starting not to like it. I was really considering manual conversion at one stage for the better gear ratios and driving experience however I have read threads and received information from other members and it sounds like a difficult task. Plus the engine has to be removed and you MAY miss out on your cruise control. Also it almost seems like a downgrade (say compare it to if you had power windows and wanted to convert to wind-ups). Although I do much prefer driving a manual car. So anyway, I've been reading threads on here about the 5 speed auto and some car reviews and it sounds like a really good 'box! So I have been considering the conversion. But before I go ahead with it and as it is a big decision to make and a big job, I've been wanting to know the following:

1. I'm calling all 5 speed auto owners here that have also driven a 4 speed. How much quicker is the acceleration? Also, are these 'boxes more reliable than the 4 speed? (as I have heard some really bad things in this club about how reliable the 4 speeds are)

2. What is involved in doing it? Of course the TCU needs to be changed, but does the ECU which means the keys to the car has to be changed too? Will the cruise and/or speedo need to be tricked or modified? Will I need a 5 speed tippy instrument cluster too, or can I just use the 4 speed one but nothing will light up when in 5th in tippy mode? Will the 4 speed gear lever be ok to use with it too? And would there be any other complications that would arise in doing this?

3. Also, prices. I am gonna ask Mal first if you are reading this. Could you either tell me on this thread or through PM what price you would supply a 5 speed auto 'box with all necessary parts for?

Thanks

Anyone?

I don't know exactly what is involved but I assume you would need as a minimum the gearbox, ECU, some wiring, gear selector and the instrument cluster.
Overall unless you have something against manual, it would be a better option

On the TL models, you should be able to simply flash your ECU with 5sp software. This may lose your factory immobilizer but will require zero loom/ecu modifications. Just box off, box on (with approprate driveshafts), and flash software on to car.

Can be done with an Evoscan 1.3U cable.

On an ES, you would use a AWD ROM as it does not contain TCL code.

As far as acceleration is concerned, the 5 speed wins hands down. I can't comment on reliability, but its definitely a sportier box and is a much better drive than the 4 speed. You will lose some fuel economy though, not by much, maybe .5 to 1L/100kms.

I don't know exactly what is involved but I assume you would need as a minimum the gearbox, ECU, some wiring, gear selector and the instrument cluster.
Overall unless you have something against manual, it would be a better option


On the TL models, you should be able to simply flash your ECU with 5sp software. This may lose your factory immobilizer but will require zero loom/ecu modifications. Just box off, box on (with approprate driveshafts), and flash software on to car.

Can be done with an Evoscan 1.3U cable.

On an ES, you would use a AWD ROM as it does not contain TCL code.

Alright. Well as to reply to spetz, as I said in my first post, I actually prefer manual however as I mentioned the auto would be a lot less work and I have heard that you do lose your cruise and you have to do certain tricks to make the speedo work so don't really know about that one. I also like the idea that you don't lose momentum between gear changes. In a manual, if you want to be quick, you have to be an efficient gear changer. As to respond to Life, that actually sound like it wouldn't be too difficult to do then, however, I don't know if I want to lose my immobilizer as it is an anti-theft feature. Is there another way I can do it without losing the immobilizer or is that my only option as far as an easy fit without swapping ECUs go?

Only other way is to swap a TL AWD ECU, BEM, keys, etc... much easier to install an aftermarket alarm. If somebody knows what they are doing the factory immoblizer can be removed in 10 minutes anyway.

Expensive exercise for something you'll love then slowly get bored of again.. IMO sell car and buy TL/TW vrx, netting you a 5 speed box and all the other goodies and should be cheaper in the end than the conversion

Expensive exercise for something you'll love then slowly get bored of again.. IMO sell car and buy TL/TW vrx, netting you a 5 speed box and all the other goodies and should be cheaper in the end than the conversion
Plus 1, I'd go down this path if I hadn't modded so much already, but I'd get a verada...

Expensive exercise for something you'll love then slowly get bored of again.. IMO sell car and buy TL/TW vrx, netting you a 5 speed box and all the other goodies and should be cheaper in the end than the conversion
Yeah I was thinking of buying a manual TL/W VRX for a while but the thing is that at this stage I don't really want to buy another car as it means I would have the hassle of selling mine and I've already done a fair bit to mine (no much really that can't be swapped to a VRX anyway). I just really wanted to do the manual or 5 speed auto conversion to make driving a bit more enjoyable and get a bit more punch out of the maggie until I get my Holden VE SS ute when I'm off my P's.

Also I will ask, around what cost am I looking to do a 5 speed auto conversion (with the swapping the ECU way and the flashing the ECU way)? And which conversion do you guys think would be cheaper and/or easier, the 5sp auto or the manual? Furthermore, has anyone figured out a way to get the cruise to work on a TL after the manual conversion? Thanks

When mal did my conversion to manual cruise worked fine, best bet is to talk to him as he can do any of the conversions you are talking about. A fair trip down from QLD but well worth it.

When mal did my conversion to manual cruise worked fine, best bet is to talk to him as he can do any of the conversions you are talking about. A fair trip down from QLD but well worth it.

Yeah true, I was thinking bout it for a while although I would have to get sum1 else with their car to come with me so I have some transport (dunno bout risking my mate's TL as it has 300K on it). It will be quite a drive as I live in Townsville and I am already 1500km from Brisbane :/ . Did he say that he could get the cruise to work the TL's now too? As I heard that people were getting theirs to work on TJ2 back, but not the TLs. And how long do you think he would need the car for? Also when you do a manual conversion, would the same problems arise as when doing the 5sp auto? Such as, either having to swap ECUs etc or loosing your immobilizer? Thanks

Actually, I've been thinking about it and going through the costs of a trip such as that and the total cost would end up being quite a fair bit. So I worked out it is 3 days worth of driving (not 3 solid days of course) just to get there. The cost of fuel would be around 1-2K, accommodation and living essentials would be around $500-1K and the conversion itself around $1500-2K. So the total cost would end up being apporx. $3500-5K. So I think if I am considering doing such a thing I would firstly have to confirm if and when I want this done as I've already bugged Mal enough with my questions etc (sorry Mal). Secondly, if I do the conversion, I will probably need to get Mal to give me instructions (I would be happy to pay extra for these instructions). If he can't give me instructions on how to do the cruise, I will probably be on here asking some questions on how to do it :P . And I know he sells the 3.5 kits (which is what I will be looking at getting) for $1000, but if I want him to post it up and supply a performance clutch (just something a bit better than stock), what would the cost end up being in the end? (I know even if I spend up to 2K, I either won't loose out much or break even as the car itself will be worth 1-2K more as people will pay the extra for manuals as they are rarer. I also know this as when I had a manual 99 VT commodore, we ended up selling it in the first day of advertising and getting our asking price which we priced it 2-3K more than what the autos were going for at the time. However dunno if this the case with magnas but I assume it would be :D )

For starters can't see how you can use a 4 sp engine harness with a 5 sp auto

You can however use a 5 sp auto and trick the ecu around the tcl or just install the tcl as i did

Either way I hate my 5 sp auto and will be putting back the 4 sp soon as i am over doing 50 kmh in 5th gear with half throttle and raw fuel pouring out the back lol

For starters can't see how you can use a 4 sp engine harness with a 5 sp auto

You can however use a 5 sp auto and trick the ecu around the tcl or just install the tcl as i did

Either way I hate my 5 sp auto and will be putting back the 4 sp soon as i am over doing 50 kmh in 5th gear with half throttle and raw fuel pouring out the back lol

Jeez :/ . Don't think I'll be doing the 5 sp auto then haha. So mate as I said in my other post I am sorry that I have bugged you about questions on the manual conversion in the past, but next time I ask you about it, it will most likely be to buy a kit from you :D . Also Mal, can you get the cruise working after a manual conversion on a TL? And to everyone on here, do you think it is worth me doing it? I plan to do it around april-july area next year as I should have a good amount of funds up by then and I should have another way of transportation (thinking of getting one of the motorbikes registered :P ). I mean, it is only a TL ES which is probably currently worth 5-6K (maybe 6-7K if I'm lucky). I know the value of it would go right up after the conversion. It will also mean my car will have a bit more punch, the driving experience will be heaps better and I could post-pone getting my VE SS ute as my car will be a bit more of a pleasure to drive (maybe keep it 2-3 years longer instead of 1.5-2 years). Furthermore, as I mentioned above, does the manual conversion mean you have to loose your immobilizer, or does the computer not have to be touched, just the auto inhibitor switch needs to stay on N or P? And finally Mal, if you could PM me a price for the 3.5 manual kit, clutch (as I mentioned in my other post) and freight (estimated for Townsville, QLD 4815) that would be great (also does the kit come with the intermediate shaft or will have have obtain that separately?).

You may find a auto Magna converted to manual may actually command a lower resale value than a factory auto. Potential buyers will not be sure that the conversion has been carried out properly and this will be reflected in the cars value. This seems to apply to all types of conversions carried out on all makes of vehicles.

For starters can't see how you can use a 4 sp engine harness with a 5 sp auto

You can however use a 5 sp auto and trick the ecu around the tcl or just install the tcl as i did

Either way I hate my 5 sp auto and will be putting back the 4 sp soon as i am over doing 50 kmh in 5th gear with half throttle and raw fuel pouring out the back lol

There must be something wrong there, my 5 spd wont go to fifth below 60kph, and it is fine no labouring and only light throttle to maintain speed.

Mine goes to 5th at 50.

If you are on flatish ground on light throttle it will hit 5th no worries at 50kmh. Many many that I have driven do this

That is not a problem if you do not come across a rise, but as soon as the old girl loads up, the pedal goes down until eventually it unlocks the converter and pops back a gear.

When I drive the car I just use tippy mode to pop back a gear on hills, this is a PITA as when in an auto, I like the auto to be automatic.

I am yet to find the auto trans settings in the ECU but believe me when I do, the first thing that will happen is the load and speed settings for that 5th gear will move up a long way

You may find a auto Magna converted to manual may actually command a lower resale value than a factory auto. Potential buyers will not be sure that the conversion has been carried out properly and this will be reflected in the cars value. This seems to apply to all types of conversions carried out on all makes of vehicles.

I think you'll find that irrespective of who has done the conversion - the value will drop. You have to remember that 90% of the buyers for these cars are either families and/or older aged pensioners who were the target market of these cars for years. These type of buyers do not want to lug around a manual - they prefer the ease and comfort of a automatic. One of the reasons why the pre-VRX models were basic and bland in their nature because that is what suited that market. (How many sporty cars come with tan interiors? Ever seen a VeradaXi - epic grandpa car).

Generally the only people that want manual cars are enthusiasts and/or young people - both of which would not want a Magna. A manual dunnydore or falcon will sell quick because alot of young drivers want to have a manual RWD "proper" car not a fwd large grandpa car. The falcodore suits a broader market including "enthusiasts" and has a different stigma because it is long rooted in Australian culture for also being able to be "Sporty" car of sorts likely due to both manufacturers being heavily involved in V8 supercar racing and offering many muscle cars over years and V8 engines that Aussie bogans have always loved.

Simply said - if you do a manual conversion - it is for you and it comes at a cost. You will need to be more patient in selling the car as you will need to wait for a young person who actually wants a magna (rare as hens teeth) AND has the money to pay up. Otherwise you can sell to the magna enthusiasts (i.e. US!) but alot of the buyers on this forum are chasing bottom dollar and also significantly undervalue cars thinking that because they've seen one magna for incredibly cheap that this sets the bar for all cars to be the same price.

Personally - if you really want to have the fun of a manual car then get a more popular mainstream more commonly accepted "enthusiast" car like a XR6/SV6 or something Japanese. The magna is a family car. Even a VR-X/Ralliart magna would be better because at least the car is positioned to be a more sportier car and you have a higher amount of buyers being potentially interested in a manual magna.

There's a reason why the fordforums/justcommonbores have 10's of 1000's of members and heaps of sponsors when the only real magna forum (don't care about the other one floating about as it is lucky to have 40 active members - most of which are just doing it to spite this club) has about 400 active members and now one sponsor thanks to loosing its main backbone sponsor.

I think you'll find that irrespective of who has done the conversion - the value will drop. You have to remember that 90% of the buyers for these cars are either families and/or older aged pensioners who were the target market of these cars for years. These type of buyers do not want to lug around a manual - they prefer the ease and comfort of a automatic. One of the reasons why the pre-VRX models were basic and bland in their nature because that is what suited that market. (How many sporty cars come with tan interiors? Ever seen a VeradaXi - epic grandpa car).

Generally the only people that want manual cars are enthusiasts and/or young people - both of which would not want a Magna. A manual dunnydore or falcon will sell quick because alot of young drivers want to have a manual RWD "proper" car not a fwd large grandpa car. The falcodore suits a broader market including "enthusiasts" and has a different stigma because it is long rooted in Australian culture for also being able to be "Sporty" car of sorts likely due to both manufacturers being heavily involved in V8 supercar racing and offering many muscle cars over years and V8 engines that Aussie bogans have always loved.

Simply said - if you do a manual conversion - it is for you and it comes at a cost. You will need to be more patient in selling the car as you will need to wait for a young person who actually wants a magna (rare as hens teeth) AND has the money to pay up. Otherwise you can sell to the magna enthusiasts (i.e. US!) but alot of the buyers on this forum are chasing bottom dollar and also significantly undervalue cars thinking that because they've seen one magna for incredibly cheap that this sets the bar for all cars to be the same price.

Personally - if you really want to have the fun of a manual car then get a more popular mainstream more commonly accepted "enthusiast" car like a XR6/SV6 or something Japanese. The magna is a family car. Even a VR-X/Ralliart magna would be better because at least the car is positioned to be a more sportier car and you have a higher amount of buyers being potentially interested in a manual magna.

There's a reason why the fordforums/justcommonbores have 10's of 1000's of members and heaps of sponsors when the only real magna forum (don't care about the other one floating about as it is lucky to have 40 active members - most of which are just doing it to spite this club) has about 400 active members and now one sponsor thanks to loosing its main backbone sponsor.

Youre talking out of your ****!

Perhaps we should all keep our cars stock then! lol its not like theyre worth much anyway!

That forum was originally made up of mostly banned members. I'm apart of that forum and I've been here long enough to know who has been banned. I don't want to talk about that forum anyway - this is not a chat thread.

And I never said not to modify your car. Pretty evident that ultimately this is what this forum is about and what most of us do. What I am saying is that if you do modify your transmission to a manual do not expect the car to increase in value or demand - infact it will do the opposite. Sportscars or at least those that are viewed by the majority as a sporty car will be worth more when manual.

Mostly? There's 2!

Are you implying the value would drop replacing an auto, with an auto?

The failure rates on magna auto trans is so high most people will be glad it is fitted with a replacement trans. Stop talking shit already.

You seem fairly convinced all modifications decrease value.

yeah im with Dean.

I got $6000 for my old TJ back in May this year. That had a fair few modifications including a manual conversion.

For starters how would someone know it has been converted if done properly, unless they know what the codes mean on the plate lol

Secondly, when someone does a mod to a car, is not generally done to make money, is done to make the car more of what they want, to personalise

Finally what does the fact that there are other car forums got to do with this topic....NOTHING so lets keep the political crap out of these tech threads

Jeez :/ . Don't think I'll be doing the 5 sp auto then haha. So mate as I said in my other post I am sorry that I have bugged you about questions on the manual conversion in the past, but next time I ask you about it, it will most likely be to buy a kit from you :D . Also Mal, can you get the cruise working after a manual conversion on a TL? And to everyone on here, do you think it is worth me doing it? I plan to do it around april-july area next year as I should have a good amount of funds up by then and I should have another way of transportation (thinking of getting one of the motorbikes registered :P ). I mean, it is only a TL ES which is probably currently worth 5-6K (maybe 6-7K if I'm lucky). I know the value of it would go right up after the conversion. It will also mean my car will have a bit more punch, the driving experience will be heaps better and I could post-pone getting my VE SS ute as my car will be a bit more of a pleasure to drive (maybe keep it 2-3 years longer instead of 1.5-2 years). Furthermore, as I mentioned above, does the manual conversion mean you have to loose your immobilizer, or does the computer not have to be touched, just the auto inhibitor switch needs to stay on N or P? And finally Mal, if you could PM me a price for the 3.5 manual kit, clutch (as I mentioned in my other post) and freight (estimated for Townsville, QLD 4815) that would be great (also does the kit come with the intermediate shaft or will have have obtain that separately?).

Immob and cruise all work

TL needs some furhter stuf done to make the speedo work but is not rocker science lol

Unfortunately I dont have any good kits in stock at the moment but that can change at any time

Mostly? There's 2!

Are you implying the value would drop replacing an auto, with an auto?

The failure rates on magna auto trans is so high most people will be glad it is fitted with a replacement trans. Stop talking shit already.

You seem fairly convinced all modifications decrease value.

Did you actually read my first post? Or are you just quick to dish out your shit attitude towards others?

I am talking about doing a manual conversion to a magna and how the value will drop with a manual gearbox. I follow the buying/selling market alot and I can tell you that it does make the car less valuable to ALOT of buyers. You need to realise that the majority of magna owners are not even near your age and do not buy these cars for fun or for their sporting credentials because they don't have much! A magna is laughed at by any other enthusiast - whether you like to hear this or not. Most of the buyers are families and the aged (how many grandpa jokes do we make about these cars?) and they will not pay you extra for the manual conversion - shitloads more were sold with auto's than with manual gearboxes for a reason. The VR-X's were the sporty version of these cars and at least 60-70% of them are automatic.

Anyway back on topic - not getting into anouther bitchfight with you because I refuse to deal with your cocky and disgusting attitude.

The 2nd reason why converted vehicles sell for less than an untouched example is that the car has been personalised to someone else's tastes.....that's hard to argue against.

Immob and cruise all work

TL needs some furhter stuf done to make the speedo work but is not rocker science lol

Unfortunately I dont have any good kits in stock at the moment but that can change at any time

Thanks for the response Mal. And yeah as you said, it's not to make money, it's make the car to suit you. Also, I know I won't 'make' money but I reckon I'll at least break even or loose little anyway. I think also that a smart young driver such as myself who have driven bogandores (in fact owned a 99 VT manual bogandore but swapped it for my parents magna as the bogandore had 4 cylinder-like torque and I could barely beat a daewoo lanos off the line haha) and falcons would want to buy it. And somehow I don't think someone with a family or an elderly person would want my car after what I've done to it and especially when I make it manual.

And that's good that the cruise, immobilizer and speedo still works :D . Also that alright about you not having stock at the moment however I didn't want to get it yet anyway. So I will probably contact you again around may-july next year to ask you about the kits again. I remember you had a thread about your kits but have searched and cannot find it, do you think you could give me to the link to it? If not (or the thread is missing or deleted), could you quickly run through what comes with the kits? Thanks

Surely surely surely it's waaaay less hassle to just sell it and buy one already equipped with a 5sp...? Get an AWD.

...when someone does a mod to a car, is not generally done to make money, is done to make the car more of what they want, to personalise...

You hit the nail on he head with this statement...

to the OP: you've done well to ask here for information, do your homework, budget and plan well, and you will reach your goal.

As to the question of whether to go manual or 5sp auto, only you can work out the answer to that one, as it is a personal requirement...test drive both, and decide what you think suits.

You hit the nail on he head with this statement...

to the OP: you've done well to ask here for information, do your homework, budget and plan well, and you will reach your goal.

As to the question of whether to go manual or 5sp auto, only you can work out the answer to that one, as it is a personal requirement...test drive both, and decide what you think suits.

You could not have said that better mate. Thanks for that great advice and as I said that I prefer to drive manual anyway, I might just do that. A 5sp is still an Auto whether it has an extra gear or not. Still means i won't get the experience of a manual. And as to respond to Renoman, do you know how hard it would be to sell a car at the moment (especially a automatic bottom of the range magna)? No one can seem to sell cars at the moment I have noticed. And if you didn't read my above posts, I don't want to be purchasing other cars at this stage as I'm saving up for an near new SS ute (07 onwards). I know the conversion will cost close to or possibly more than if I just sold mine and bought another, but as I said the hassle and I would most likely need to sell mine first which means for one I will be without wheels (something that I can't do without) and in the time I am selling mine, the car I want may get sold to someone else so that is why I ruled out that option. Plus I have my car looking the way I love it. And my car to me has some sentimental value as my parents owned it since 2006 and handed the keys to me in November 2009 so it's been in my family for almost 5 years, we've done 105k (bought her with 34500km and she now has 140k on her) in it been on lots of family trips in it and I have made some good memories in it since I have owned it. The other thing is I don't know the history of another car whereas I know almost all the history of my own car. So I think I will stick with mine for AT LEAST another 1.5-2 years yet.

If you are on flatish ground on light throttle it will hit 5th no worries at 50kmh. Many many that I have driven do this

That is not a problem if you do not come across a rise, but as soon as the old girl loads up, the pedal goes down until eventually it unlocks the converter and pops back a gear.

When I drive the car I just use tippy mode to pop back a gear on hills, this is a PITA as when in an auto, I like the auto to be automatic.

I am yet to find the auto trans settings in the ECU but believe me when I do, the first thing that will happen is the load and speed settings for that 5th gear will move up a long way

my 4sp auto will not ever go into 4th below 60kph, which is a PITA; there are lots of times, light loads, flat roads, when 4th at say 50-55kph would be fine. Can this be changed?

my 4sp auto will not ever go into 4th below 60kph, which is a PITA; there are lots of times, light loads, flat roads, when 4th at say 50-55kph would be fine. Can this be changed?

This!

my 4sp auto will not ever go into 4th below 60kph, which is a PITA; there are lots of times, light loads, flat roads, when 4th at say 50-55kph would be fine. Can this be changed?

Yes..

Not sure how the internals of the auto works, but fourth gear at 50kmph might be locked out because of the reduced pump speed (low engine rpm) versus the higher output shaft speed (doing less than 50kmph).

ECU load is probably the biggest contrinbutor. But you gotta wonder right?

It's the same as loading your engine up at load revs; lower oil pressure under increased mechanical load = damage to internal components.