As abouve guys..

My Ralliart seems to be tracking something wicked and has an unusual amount of torque steer...

On hard acceleration (no wheel spin), it pulls violently to the right, and i find myself fighting with the steering wheel to keep it straight.. then let of the go pedal, and it pull just as violently to left... when cruising and coasting at normal speeds, she seems to stay straight enough... but it also tracks really badly when i come to a road that has the slightest of grooves...

if you can imagine, it feels like your driving with a flat tyre... trouble is, all tyres were sitting at the same levels when i check them...

now im not sure if this is a result of the LSD (which im kinda doubting koz i dont think it would be this bad) but i would really appreciate any advice/opinions/spitballing that anyone wants to offer...


Cheers
Dan

Isn't an LSD meant to reduce torque steer? I've heard a few members here talking about certain wheel sizes and certain tyres increasing tracking though. Has the Ralliart always been like this? or has something changed recently?

Uneven tyre wear or some of your front suspension bushes are clapped out.
I would have a good look at the bushes at the rear of each lower control arm, these are the ones closest to the mudflaps.
Gerry

I would be immediately getting a wheel allignment, if oyu have recently had one get another one somewhere else

This is caused by excessive tow in or tow out

Isn't an LSD meant to reduce torque steer? I've heard a few members here talking about certain wheel sizes and certain tyres increasing tracking though. Has the Ralliart always been like this? or has something changed recently?

well just bought the car and test drove it with aftermarket rims... part of the sale was to have stock rims put back on... so i think this might be causing an issue...

I would be immediately getting a wheel allignment, if oyu have recently had one get another one somewhere else

This is caused by excessive tow in or tow out

my initial thought was wheel alignment first... as above, its wearing different shoes from when i test drove it, so this might be why...

just wanted to see if there could be anything else that i could look at before taking it to someone...

thanks again guys your help is greatly appreciated... i might go get one now and report back later...

Incorrect toe in/toe out can do this. Also, wear in the steering components can give you toe out on acceleration, toe in on deceleration. If the wear (like a sloppy tie rod or tie rod end) is on one side, it will give you effects that feel like tramlining and torque steer when you drive. Definitely needs a wheel alignment, but get the guy to check for play in the steering components first. No point doing a wheel alignment if it can change while you drive due to wear.

If the car has more than 200,000 km on it, tie rods, tie rod ends, ball joints (and possibly wheel bearings) are all likely places for play.

so just got a wheel alignment (before i read ur post madmax) and it has improved it, ever so slightly... the car only has 106km on it... would those components still be an issue with these lower kms?

The manual Ralliart does have strong torque steer, even if the alignment and other components are correct, but could possibly be worse if they are faulty.

Also, gun it enough to bring the LSD into action, especially when turning, and you will finish up in a wrestling match with your steering wheel.
You won't need to go to the gym to build up your shoulder and arm muscles!
If you are new to the manual Ralliart, take it easy initially and get a feel for when the LSD comes in. It has major effect when doing a turn in 1st or 2nd gear with lots of throttle,
it can virtually jump sideways like a crab if the turn is tight.
The effect is oversteer with lots of throttle, which then reverses with reduced throttle.
Cheers

Could just be the normal torque steer that you get with manual Magnas? Have you driven other Magnas and your one has abnormal torque steer?

so just got a wheel alignment (before i read ur post madmax) and it has improved it, ever so slightly... the car only has 106km on it... would those components still be an issue with these lower kms?

Nope, all should be fine, barring accident damage.

Torque steer on a Magna? Doesn't it have equal length driveshafts to negate that? I'm on my fourth Magna, never been a problem with torque steer or tramlining. Mind you, I have not driven one with bigger/wider wheels, and drive grandpa spec to conserve fuel and mechanicals of the car. Could be the LSD (I guess), maybe, possibly?

What are your tire sizes/pressures?

Get all of the bushes on the front left hand corner of your car checked. If you can imagine, when you accelerate hard your front wheel will be pulling forward and/or turning in which is causing the car to want to pull to the right. Then when you come of the go pedal the engine compression is causing heavy load in the opposite direction causing your wheel to be pushed backwards. Does the car also pull to the left under heavy braking if so then something in your front end is stuffed. If it is only happening under engine load then I would be checking all of your engine/gearbox mounts also because if you engine is moving under load then it will also be pull on your CV joints which could be a part of the problem.

Could just be the normal torque steer that you get with manual Magnas? Have you driven other Magnas and your one has abnormal torque steer?

yeah previously owned a TH sports and had nothing like this... this is wild...

Nope, all should be fine, barring accident damage.

Torque steer on a Magna? Doesn't it have equal length driveshafts to negate that? I'm on my fourth Magna, never been a problem with torque steer or tramlining. Mind you, I have not driven one with bigger/wider wheels, and drive grandpa spec to conserve fuel and mechanicals of the car. Could be the LSD (I guess), maybe, possibly?

no accident damage at all.. its a clean car...

What are your tire sizes/pressures?

standard ralliart magna shoes: 17" x 7" Enkei's 225/50R17 pressure was checked and all at about 40psi

Get all of the bushes on the front left hand corner of your car checked. If you can imagine, when you accelerate hard your front wheel will be pulling forward and/or turning in which is causing the car to want to pull to the right. Then when you come of the go pedal the engine compression is causing heavy load in the opposite direction causing your wheel to be pushed backwards. Does the car also pull to the left under heavy braking if so then something in your front end is stuffed. If it is only happening under engine load then I would be checking all of your engine/gearbox mounts also because if you engine is moving under load then it will also be pull on your CV joints which could be a part of the problem.

yeah next step was to replace all the bushes... it does start tracking around a bit also under braking so it seems like this would be the most reasonable assumption...

anyone know where i can get a decent bush kit for it? maybe even look to upgrade from steel to polyurathane? since im doin it, might as well upgrade right? :)

Take it back to the people who did the wheel alignment, tell them what it's doing and ask - nicely - if they can find a reason. Camber, castor on BOTH ends of the car should be checked.

Something is not right somewhere, but replacing bits on a "it could be this" basis can be time consuming and money consuming, and very frustrating!

No point replacing bushes if it turns out you have a bent suspension strut throwing the camber and castor of the front end out!

Take it back to the people who did the wheel alignment, tell them what it's doing and ask - nicely - if they can find a reason. Camber, castor on BOTH ends of the car should be checked.

Something is not right somewhere, but replacing bits on a "it could be this" basis can be time consuming and money consuming, and very frustrating!

No point replacing bushes if it turns out you have a bent suspension strut throwing the camber and castor of the front end out!

ok thanks... i might get the suspension checked out before i do anything else...

As I posted yesterday.
If the car wants to violently change direction between power on and off then is it likely that the lower control arm rear bushes are shot.
When you turn hard right or left with moderate power does it feel that the car wants to oversteer instead of you feeling a constant pressure through the steering wheel.. This is the sort of steering behaviour that is consistent with the rear bushes being flogged out. I had this behaviour on a KS many years ago. Car wanted to take over, tramline behaviour in a straight line was also wicked. Cause was the LHS bush almost totally disentrgrated at around 100,000Kms.
Had Nolathane increased castor bushes put on - magic.

On my current AWD I also changed these bushes a couple of years ago to the increased castor ones. 3 benefits, steering is now nicely weighted, tyre wear much reduced as now is nice and even, i can now get 2 years of spirited driving out of a set of tyres. You can get bushes from Nolathane/ red ranger. Also listed in the Supercheap Auto parts look up system.

Unless you have the kit to remove the outer ball joint taper from the front hub assembly and have access to a press with the necessary pushers and collars to press the old bush out and press the new one in then this not really a DIY job.
If you find that you need to have the bushes replaced also get the ball joint checked. There is a torque figure listed in the Workshop Manual.
Gerry

As I posted yesterday.
If the car wants to violently change direction between power on and off then is it likely that the lower control arm rear bushes are shot.
When you turn hard right or left with moderate power does it feel that the car wants to oversteer instead of you feeling a constant pressure through the steering wheel.. This is the sort of steering behaviour that is consistent with the rear bushes being flogged out. I had this behaviour on a KS many years ago. Car wanted to take over, tramline behaviour in a straight line was also wicked. Cause was the LHS bush almost totally disentrgrated at around 100,000Kms.
Had Nolathane increased castor bushes put on - magic.

On my current AWD I also changed these bushes a couple of years ago to the increased castor ones. 3 benefits, steering is now nicely weighted, tyre wear much reduced as now is nice and even, i can now get 2 years of spirited driving out of a set of tyres. You can get bushes from Nolathane/ red ranger. Also listed in the Supercheap Auto parts look up system.

Unless you have the kit to remove the outer ball joint taper from the front hub assembly and have access to a press with the necessary pushers and collars to press the old bush out and press the new one in then this not really a DIY job.
If you find that you need to have the bushes replaced also get the ball joint checked. There is a torque figure listed in the Workshop Manual.
Gerry

thats awesome... i will def look into that... have a family friend who's a mechanic so will get him to check it all out and replace all the bushes...

so would it be worth replacing all the bushes front/rear/L/R to nolathane ones? what would be the cost of that?

Take it back to the people who did the wheel alignment, tell them what it's doing and ask - nicely - if they can find a reason. Camber, castor on BOTH ends of the car should be checked.

Something is not right somewhere, but replacing bits on a "it could be this" basis can be time consuming and money consuming, and very frustrating!

No point replacing bushes if it turns out you have a bent suspension strut throwing the camber and castor of the front end out!

Camber and castor will NOT cause this sort of problem.

As I said yesterday, get the front end checked out, don't just go replacing everything without knowing what the actual problem is. Take the car to a suspension specialist and tell them what it is doing. They should be able to pin point the problem. After 8 years in the game I can say that it could be any of the bushes on the lower control arm or the lower ball joint.

ARS55,
Spot on. A proper full suspension inspection is recommended.
Agree with your comments about bushes and ball joints. However at 100,000 kms I would lean to bushes being the main problem, but to check the ball joints when everything is apart.
The conventional long bar check on a ball joint will only show when ios is totally sha**ed out.
When I had the AWD bushes changed they looked quite good, however changing to offset polyurethane ones really did sharpen up the steering response.
Also consider that, as you change from the original sized tyres and wheels and soft tyre pressures, the wheel alignment and better suspension geometry control become more important. I include the Ralliart in this category.
Also consider that Mitsubishi originally developed the Magna back in the 1990's to work with fairly ordinary tyres and what I would call cardigan wearing drivers.
Aussiemagna owners want things to work a little better hence the recommendations to go to Polyurethane bushes. Yes they will increase NVH in the car, so it depends what you personally want for your driving experience.

When I first bought my AWD, 15,000Kms on the clock and a year old. I liked the car but thought that the steering response, overall grip levels and general roadholding were not that good. Bear in mind that I had been used to driving cars like the Capri 2.8I with Bilstein suspension as well as the Sierra 2.8 and 2.9 AWD cars and of course the Cosworth Sierra.
That is why I have changed the sway bars, lower and stiffer springs, Koni adjustables, sorted out the front and rear camber settings, 17" wheels and Dunlop Sport Maxx tyres as well as increased castor polyurethane lower arm bushes as well as polyurethane bushes on the sway bar mounts.
However I can feel the rear suspension move a bit under hard cornering as all the links have the original rubber bushes.
road noise has increased a bit as a trade off for much improved steering response, and really significant improvement in grip levels.

Gerry

thanks guys ur knowledge is priceless...

spud, ur set up sounds awesome, and sounds like the same outcome i wanted to work towards...

so would you recommend getting the bushes replaced for just the front lower castor arms and sway bar mounts? or should i look into getting other bushes replaced too?

sorry to be asking dumb questions, but i dont know too much about suspension... just want to be able to go to my mate and tell him what i want so i can just get it done.. also where can i get polyurathane bushes from and how much would i be looking at for the bushes i need (presuming that you guys are right, which im sure you are...)?

No,
Seriously get the car up in the air and have the bushes checked by a professional. However if the bushes that we have talked about are as bad as I think, then get down on the ground by the front of the front doors, with a torch!! look forward of the door edge a bit and about 300 mm in. Sorry can't check at the moment as it is rather wet in Sydney!!

The rear bushes are about 80mm diameter. They should be smooth all the way round a central piece of tube that is bonded into the middle.

Your car really hasn't gone a great distance. As both the front and rear sway bar bushes are onto subframes a change to polyurethane will not have a great effect to NVH.

I suspect that the next pair of bushes to make firmer would be those on the rear suspension lateral arms, i.e from the rear crossmember to the bottom of the rear hub assemblies.
This is where a proper check up in the air should show whether they are worn.

One way to find out is to pay a suspension place for a full check. Pedders spring to mind. You then can double check where they want you to spend money and decide who will be most cost effective in doing the work.

I would also put a post up on the Ralliart group for specific advice as well.
Gerry

im no expert on suspension but after fitting a ralliart manual gearbox to my 6g75 powered tj sports i had this problem also until i installed my new king springs and boge turbo shocks. The old tj sports shocks/springs where too soft and the car would almost change lanes when dropping into 2nd at WOT.
Now its fine. maybe your shocks are getting soft

No, its his control arm bushes.