Can a Series III 380 steering wheel with audio controls be fitted to third gen Magna's?

I'd imagine the short answer is "yes" but there'd be a fair amount of work involved (looms and clock springs). Possibly pretty expensive also.

Did any third gen Magna's have a steering wheel controls option that may be a more viable option?

I'm asking not because I want to control audio, but because I'm looking to use the control to shift gears (tippy + one arm). And before I dive into making a foot shifter I thought I'd look at something that looked more "factory" and less out of place than a shifter in the foot well.

Cant use the cruise control stalk - switches inside the stalk would need modification and there's still the roadblock of the clock spring.

I would firstly speak to Mal. He has done the conversion with the airbag, cruise and lights all working fine to his Misses Wagon (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73020&page=14)

The only third gen magna's that came with audio controls were the Verada Xi models which were underneath the airbag. It was not really integrated into the wheel but was more or less retrofitted - tbh looked quite aftermarket. Here is the audio control (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mitsubishi-Magna-Verada-Ralliart-VRX-Steering-wheel-controls-bracket-/260894603809?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cbe87ba21) - and here is a picture with the controls under the steering wheel (http://liveimages.redbook.com.au/redbook/car/spec/MITS0877.jpg)

If you are planning to rewire the controls to change gears then I don't think the factory system is a good option due to its location. Using only one hand on the bottom side of the steering wheel would not be very safe. I think rewiring one of these [ Exhibit 1 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Universal-Steering-Wheel-IR-Remote-Control-Learning-car-/140468440389?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item20b4924d45) or Exhibit 2 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/UNIVERSAL-STEERING-WHEEL-REMOTE-CONTROL-TS-99-/360304820356?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53e3d74084) ] generic audio steering wheel controls. Or if you've got alot of money to spend then maybe something like this (https://autron.evolveshop.com.au/epages/autron.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/5353109392756724/Products/AC-5SW-HW150U). Otherwise take a trip to your local pick-a-part and test fit any other models cruise controls - I'd try the VT/VX's or EL/EF ones because they're very curved and might fit on the magna steering wheel.

Have you also worked out how you're going to wire the device to change the gears?

Short answer; I believe Mal (MadMagna) had a 380 wheel fitted to one of his cars, don't know if he had the audio controls. I believe it was pretty-much a straight swap?

There are 3rd gen wheels with audio controls, it's a box that sits beneath the horn pad, not sure how useable it would be for your situation as it's location isn't all that convenient for using one hand to both steer and change gears. All of these steering wheel mount things use clock springs, so not seeing how using the cruise would be any different from using the audio, and the cruise stalk seems much more conveniently placed.
If I recall correctly from a brief exploration, I think all of the connectors are in place in the later 3rd gens for ALL clock spring connections, you just (theoretically) need to connect up the input in the steering wheel and the output at the column side. Earlier 3rd gens (don't know to what era) only had the only clock spring on the low-level cars, I'm thinking anything fitted with cruise may have all of the clock springs, just without all of the wires connected.

You may find that it's not as simple as connecting the wires to get one "up" and one "down" switch, I know on the 2nd gens the audio controls were actually only using one line, with different resistances for the different controls. If this is the case, it wouldn't be too difficult to come up with an intermediary interpreter (microcontroller is cheapest and easiest), I'm sure you'd find someone happy to help, you could even farm it off to your local TAFE as a useful assessment project for someone. It's just a matter of figuring out what the outputs from the controls are, and what you need them to be to interface with the tippy.

I've just done a quick google image search, and haven't found a 380 steering wheel that I can identify audio controls on; I'd imagine they should have been more conveniently located than the 3rd gen ones, but buggered if I can find a pic!

[EDIT] Pipped whilst writing!

Ok,
This is how I did MY car, I am not recommending this as a modification so if you do this and you come undone for any laws that may be broken this is entirely YOUR risk, nothing to do with me at all.

So on my car I did the following, I have test blown a spare airbag to test and it worked flawlesly so I know on my car it works

With the wheel it is bolt on, no mods needed
Airbag I got the clock spring from the 380, cut off the plug for the doggybag. I then used the actual clock spring from by car and cut the plug off for the srs. I then soldered and double heat shrinked the 380 plug onto the magna srs wires. Tested that these were ok with a multi meter (bag unplugged) and that was that
The cruise, simply put the cruise stalk from your existing wheel into the 380 wheel, looks same but pins are different
Horn was a no brainer, just plug the bugger in

I have not bothered with the audio controls but this would be simply if oyu have a clock spring from a Verada Xi

As I said, above is simply how I did my wagon, it is not a DIY and I will not be responsible for anyone who does the above and has any issues

Yes I have both plastic and leather wheels here as well as 380 clock springs, no I will not do that actual mod, that will be up to whom ever purhchases the wheels

Okay. I didn't think this would be easy, or plug n play.

The wiring, for shifting gears, is simple enough to understand and needs to be done regardless of the shifter I run with. Relatively confident I can manage that aspect.

As for audio controls from a 380 series three there's a PDF I've found on google that shows the switch in the best position. THIS would be the cleanest looking option. The clock spring to me seems to be the bigger hurdle in this mod if anything. I have the wiring diagrams for both cars, wiring SHOULD be easy. Provided the clock spring pairs match etc and I don't have to run dodgy wiring through the wheel.

Airbag mod is definitely something left to the end user. If it works like it says of the box then I'd have no issue doing it.

But before I start, a little more research might be required.

Thanks for the help so far. Update if any new info comes to light. It's all appreciated.

I have looked into the wiring for the Mitsubishi audio remote before.

Unfortunately it is a 2 wire job (to minimise the clock spring count) and these are power and signal only. So first, you would need the clock spring from a Verada Xi (because from KE-KL the Xi was the only one with the correct audio control clock spring - KW all Verada's got them but are rare)

Second, the factory audio only has a single pin connecting it to the remote. The audio HU interprets the different signals from remote sent through the same wire.

The only way I can see this working is by using a PAC-SWIX kind of deal with the signals being learnt by an aftermarket converter for attaching factory wheel remotes to aftermarket audio systems.

Mike

OK, found what I'm guessing is the same PDF (http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/media/62332/mit2281_380_seriesiii_bro_v2_new.pdf), as I can't see the controls illustrated on the front of the wheel, I'm assuming they're behind the wheel on the right main arm; should be quite handy, and to me could be a nice mod for a lot of people with a tippy. As to how they interface electronically, no idea, would have to check out some wrecks, but don't have access to any (nor the time nowadays).
I'm always a bit suss about working with airbag equipped wheels, as everyone should be. Make sure you well and truly know what you are doing before attempting to mod anything, and quadruple-check all of your wiring before reconnecting power.

Bummer. Sounds like any audio control switch may be the same as the cruise control switches - no "on /off" per se, more sending of different signals to be interpreted down the line.

It was worth a shot though.

I'll dust off my foot shifter plans and tackle it this way I think.

Sorry about that mate.

Maybe look into using a paddle shift arangement with the 2 extra 'audio control' clock spring wires. Since the shifter just pushes on 2 micro switches, a paddle could be used to do the same.
Then all you have to do is use the 2 extra wires coming from the clock spring itself.

Mike

Just to clear a few things up here

SRS, has 2 wires, AFAIK does not matter which way around the plarity is, I detonate these here all the time and just hook them up and bang

Audio controls, in basic terms, power is fed into the switch (same as the cruise control stalk) and then when you either move the stalk or push the button power is sent back out the switch and through a resistor. The Crusie ECU or the Head Unit, which ever the case may be, is programmed to know that when say 9v is returned that function x is to be performed. If 6v comes back, function y is to be performed etc etc If you look at the back of the cruise stalk, the resistors can be seen there. WHen I used a third gen steering wheel on my KR I swapped a couple of the resistors to get the slow down and speed up to work the right way round

With setting these up as paddle, you will need a control that does the same thing, gets a refrence voltage from the button and then knows to switch this way or that depending on the refrence voltage provided. Second way to do this is have the steering wheel as an earth, use the 2 wires to split off each to one of the buttons on the wheel (380 has an up down switch as well as a button in the middle of the switch on each side. You will then have a pair of relays under or near the shifter, when button on one side is pressed, the relay then activates that switch, same but in reverse for the other button and relay. So instead of sending a voltage into the wheel with 1 wire and sending it out with the other, each wire is sending the earth from each button back to its respective relay and given the relay has power already it is simply then activating that relay as a switch so to speak.

Hope this all makes sense in a way

Yup, I understand the behaviour of the current once is passes through different resistors - the switches we're talking about aren't simple "on/off" switches. I'd imagine its done partly for safety as well, as I could see "on/off" switches going bad with dire results in something like cruise control. Outside of that its done to reduce the total number of clock spring outputs.

Tempted to kick around the "relay" mod mentioned by Mal, and I'd love to nerd it up and build my own doohickey to interpret different electrical signals. But that would stray too far from my "Keep It Simple Stupid" mantra. Whatever I build needs to be simple and cost effective enough for me to fix myself - not just in cash but in time as well.

My main reason for kicking this idea around was in an attempt to keep it all looking "factory". It wasn't a priority, just would have been nice. At this stage I'll source another tippy shifter to loot the micro-switches from, along with anything else of value, and construct a foot shifter assembly. Simple, mechanical fix with the most basic of electrical trickery involved - patch in to the shifters appropriate wiring.

If anything good came from this it was to see all the help sent my way. There are a lot of good minds here, not just in smarts but in willingness to kick around a potentially silly idea. Truly awesome.

to source simple on/off switches that would look factory would be to use computer towers on/off switches, would just need 2 of these buttons. now if you still intend to use the 380 steering wheel, maybe you would be able to some how replace the original sterio control switches with the computer switches?

What you want to do should be possible. Mals already highlighted how you can get the 380 wheel onto the car. And i know my mate Chris (380ftw) had rejigged his steering wheel controls to control the tippy in his old auto 380. im not sure how it was done but he said it only took an auto elec an hour or so?

so the end result

yes it is possible
yes it is a bit of fiddling around

but the question now is.......is it even worth doing?

The above, no offense, is really a stupid question

If someone likes the look and feel of the wheel, of course it is worth doing. I was the first one to do this as far as I know, it took a few weeks to get used to the "thinner" wheel as I had the LE wheel on there prior HOWEVER the look really sets off my theme inside the car with the all black TW VRX interior etc.

So I had to change 2 wires, big deal, took me all of about 5 mins and was done.

As I stated, I test fired a spare airbag to make sure it all worked and it worked a treat (took a few hours to get the smell out of the car but)

Have had this wheel on for about a year now, I love it and to be honest, it was part of what ended up swinging me to like the 380, initially I hated everything about the 380 except the wheel and washers lol, now I am building my own it will be good to have a similar feel in 2 different cars

As for on off switches, what is this all about. You need a momentary switch, not on off. The wheel controls are all switches as is the cruise stalk. It is pressed or moved, a switch internally closes a circuit for a second and this then sends the signal or power down the wire, as soon as you let go, the signal or power is lost thus why the 380 audio control switch set up is ideal for what you guys are wanting to do

I did as an experement set up in my wagon, being the perfectionist I am I did not like the relay system as was a little bulky and messy thus why I am going to set up a control box to get the signal and then convert it to a switch as such, this way I can use the up and down buttons on either side of the wheel (depending on how sideways I am at the time lol)

Okay... So this IS doable? Just requires either relay combination with the 380 wheel, or a control box to interpret the signal. That last one sounds like a winner, but outside of my depth.


but he said it only took an auto elec an hour or so?

It's been done. Excellent. all we need now is the magic incantation required to make it work ourselves... and possibly a human sacrifice or a virgin or two.


...computer towers on/off switches....

Right kind of switch, but doesn't solve the problem of there not being enough "wires" coming in/out of the clock spring to accommodate the full set of functions required.


As for on off switches, what is this all about....

By "on/off" I mean that it was either on or off at any one point (momentary in this case) whereas the cruise control stalk for example sends a different signal depending on which switch is activated... or sends the current through one of three resistors, producing the 6v/9v or 12v output which in turn is interpreted by the cruise ECU. Which might still technically be "on/off" but, not what would be required for this task. I need one "momentary on/off" switch for up and another for down, and possibly an additional switchable on/off switch to enable sports (tippy) mode.

But thanks Mal for not letting me rule this one out completely just yet. :)


but the question now is.......is it even worth doing?

Would it be worth it? In my case more so than yours I guess... the sound of one hand clapping. :P

Let me sleep on it, I'll talk to a electrical wizard and see what one of these magical control boxes might entail. Then compare all of this to building a foot shifter.

"Magical control box" = microcontroller with ADC (analogue to digital converter) reading the voltage, a couple of "if/else if" statements, and some mosfets or similar. Slightly simplified, but that's how I see it.

A microcontroller that could do that will cost you in the order of... say $0.50 Virtually any old PIC micro will have all you need, even the old 16F's. I've got about a dozen 18F2620's and 24FJ64's lying around here unused I could give you. As I said, approach a TAFE or uni, would make a good first-semester project for someone.

Main thing is driving the final "switches", a PIC by itself can't handle that kind of voltage/current, that's why you need two power transistors to act as intermediaries; like a relay, but solid-state and lower switching voltages/currents. These might cost you say $2 each.

If you are worried that if something goes wrong you won't be able to fix it, just get two or three boards made and swap in a new one.

I'd do it for you myself, but I simply don't have the time for my own projects let alone a new one. That said, I can probably delve into it more during down-times at work, to lay the groundwork.

You could quite easily do it yourself with an Arduino, which has the programmer etc built-in and uses a much simpler interface, it's just more expensive (say $20 for the micro) and less robust (not a dedicated design)

Oh yeah, you also need a simple regulator so the whole thing can work from ~12V, so add another buck or two ; )

Actually, here you go, Arduino Uno (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Arduino-UNO-2011-version-ATMEGA328P-PU-ATMEGA8U2-/280775185246?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415f81535e) can run natively at 12V, and there's pre-made 2 channel 12V relay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2-Channel-12V-Relay-Shield-Module-Arduino-ARM-PIC-AVR-DSP-SRD-12VDC-SL-C-New-/390369128623?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae3d030af) plugins available cheap. Go nuts.

A quick primer on ADC for Arduino:
http://www.arduino.cc/playground/CourseWare/AnalogInput
Note that it can only read 0 - 5V, but you can use a simple voltage divider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_divider) to bring the signals into this range.

Hmm, with an Arduino and a steering wheel at hand I reckon you could get it knocked up in about an hour.

Okie dokie - [blank expression]

I'm still calling this a "Magical control box"... mostly because while I understand its principal its still magic to me.

My understanding of electrics and circuits is limited to what I picked up in my block releases as a mechanic.... waaay back in '94. And there have been several, SEVERAL, bumps to the head between then and now. I can make the electricity do what I want provided there aren't too many jesus boxes in the circuit.

Attached is an indicator of my level of understanding thus far as to how to make this work. With your level of understanding RoGuE_StreaK you need to explain things to me like I'm a brain damaged monkey... who is probably drunk.

Having said that I'm yet to follow your links, maybe I'll figure it out.

My diagram was done in between bouts of child care, and my loose interpretation of parenting, watching my young daughter. It will either look pretty and be full of errors, or look ugly and be full of errors.

Also my relay symbols look like evil robots.

http://i.imgur.com/5fT3L.jpg

Yep, that's about the guist of it. Thing with magic boxes is that that they are powered by magic smoke, if you see the magic smoke come out, then it doesn't work anymore! :D

The box just acts as an interpreter, and yes the if/then is pretty close to how you have drawn it. you first need to bring the max 12V down to max 5V (otherwise magic smoke escapes), and the voltages will be proportional; ie. 12V becomes 5V, 9V becomes (5/12*9) 3.75V, 6V becomes 2.5V

The magic box reads 0-5V as numbers from 0 to 1023, 0 for 0V, 1023 for 5V. You don't need to figure this out, the beauty of the arduino system is that it's got USB built in and the PC software can talk directly to it, so you just press one of your audio controls and see on your PC/laptop what kind of number gets spat out.
So say for example "up" gives "850", "down" gives "225"; you just make the IF so it reacts to a certain range (as the numbers won't always be spot-on)
eg

if(analogRead(inputPin) > 800 && analogRead(inputPin) < 900)
digitalWrite(upRelayPin, HIGH);

so "up" will react to anything between 800 and 900, giving it a bit of margin for error. It then sends a "high" to your "up" relay, turning it on; "HIGH" is on, or 5V, "LOW" is off, or 0V


Once you get started with these things, the trouble is you realise how little of it's potential you are using, and start planning all the extra shit you could be doing with it at the same time...

so you just press one of your audio controls and see on your PC/laptop

THIS is what I mean by "magic" - that is freakin' awesome! Mostly because my next question was how the hell do I introduce this thing into the circuit. It sounds ridiculously simple in principal. Just a matter of ironing out the voltages and signals.


start planning all the extra shit

Doing this as I finished that sentence...


Thing with magic boxes is that that they are powered by magic smoke

Yup, I've heard of this smoke. Never seen it done myself, but its early days yet.

Truly awesome help though. I now have a new project.

You can get lancer gearbox paddle shifter setup that bolt on behind the wheel. It seem to be able to bolt on to our mangns. It has two paddles one for up one for down. They should be easy to use than switches on the steering wheel that turns. I'm just adding this just in case you need another idea if the 380 wheel button don't work out. It is dear option but can post up part number and cost if needed.

THIS is what I mean by "magic" - that is freakin' awesome! Mostly because my next question was how the hell do I introduce this thing into the circuit. It sounds ridiculously simple in principal. Just a matter of ironing out the voltages and signals.Did an extremely quick youtube search, here's a simpe vid of a guy hooking up a simple Light Dependent Resistor (?? that's what it's acting like, but looks like an LED to me ??) and using the standard interface to display the resulting numbers onscreen. It's in another language, but you should get the rough idea.

Just skip to~3:30min where he plugs in LDR and starts spitting out numbers onscreen depending on how much light it's getting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHsiNjmnbOE

Yep it is that ridiculously simple. But you need to think of all eventualities so you don't program something that will flip you into 1st gear when you're going 110km/hr, just need to apply some logic and think of all of the ways you could accidentally use it, and put in failsafes to counter these. And make sure you well and truly test the bloody thing before attaching it to your car! ; )


But as Sparky said, if you can find something that'll bolt on behind the wheel (and be useable for you?), you can bypass all of this stuff fullstop.

Wait, are these paddles only on one side, or on both sides of the wheel? ie. up on right, down on left? If on both, not much use to a one-handed driver...

My xbox steering wheel has paddles... it makes laps of Nurburgring really freakin' interesting at speed. So, yeah... no paddles.

I'm liking the possibility of building my own controller now that it doesnt seem so scary.

It still needs further research, mostly for my own confidence, after that I'll budget it in for the new year. Its Christmas time, that time of the year where I get to buy all sort of toys for myself and tell everybody "these toys are for my kids".

I'm firing this thread up again.

After much deliberation I've decided to use my cruise control stick as my new gear stick. BUT, not solely as the gear stick; When the shift is in "Drive" the cruise control switch acts as normal, but when I push the shifter over to tippy mode the cruise control stick becomes a second gear stick. I'll be doing this with a changeover relay. The rest uses signals from the cruise control switch to activate one of two relays which act as the up/down micro-switches in the shifter.

The circuit diagram* (PDF (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1479025/CRUISE%20SHIFTER%20-%20SCHEMATIC%20-%20CAD%202000-Model.pdf) or DWG (https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1479025/CRUISE%20SHIFTER%20-%20SCHEMATIC%20-%20CAD%202000.dwg)) is drawn if anybody is interested. Just remember my understanding is still limited, input is appreciated as always. Parts on order include an Arduino Mega 2560 R3 board, some relay packs and some other parts that will form the "out of car" test board.

I do have one concern that I'll hopefully iron out in the prototype - insuring I send 5v MAX to the analogue input of the Arduino board. I've run some test and believe I just need an additional 170ohms at the Arduino end of the cruise control switch output. Still needs to be confirmed.

Will update as I'm going.

*My schematic includes an input from my audio controls to the new head unit I have, but I may end up just buying the PAC SWIX doodad all the cool kids are using.

I have a executive TF non airbag in Victoria are you able to put a 380 wheel in the TF without putting in the airbag?

...are you able to put a 380 wheel in the TF without putting in the airbag?

You need to fit the airbag in the 380 wheel for roadworthy - for the horn, if nothing else - and I don't think you can't just leave the steering wheel centre bare, VicRoads won't look fondly on that, and the TF centre won't fit in the 380 wheel.

I have a executive TF non airbag in Victoria are you able to put a 380 wheel in the TF without putting in the airbag?
Ah geez man, I wouldn't know sorry. It might fit, I just don't know the legalities of having an airbag there " uncontrolled " so to speak.

http://i.imgur.com/qPn2s2e.jpg

The Arduino board arrived today and I've spent some time messing around with it. I dont have any real input/outputs yet so I'm just running through the scripts with what I have.

Remaining parts should show up over the next few weeks. The prototype will all be out of the car, probably just mounted to a piece of ply with some pilot lights to represent output signals, some switches to represent the transmission shifter and a spare cruise control switch I had kicking around.

http://i.imgur.com/EHLUU0Z.jpg

Getting there. I'm about to "try" program the arduino - using the 5v supply at this stage.

On my breadboard I have two comparators as part of an alternative to the arduino board. I'm going to test that option also.

I have a working shifter now. Still a fair way to go, but the relays react according to how the cruise control switch is operated.

This first stage prototype is still only on a 5v system. and I'm yet to box it all up and arrange it so it can be "plug & play". But, the major hurdle is out of the way.

Just to confirm; the cruise control switch is by default a cruise control switch. Its only when the transmission shifter is pushed over into triptronic that the cruise control switch becomes a shifter. The transmission shifter will still operate as normal (go shift up/down as per normal tippy mode). The cruise control shifter does not have any control over being in/out of tippy mode nor can it access Reverse or Park.

I'm pretty keen though - can now "safely" use tippy mode!

Video of the switch activating the relays according to up/down shift. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atjwBObLaO0&feature=youtu.be)

Edit: Fixed the link

I now have this working as I planned - on the bench. See attached schematic HERE (http://imgur.com/lFWQMZh)

I've set it so that if the board fails the system defaults to standard tippy mode - disabling the cruise switch's ability to change gears. Still looking to add some self checking and safety features to the programming. There's a small buzzer in the circuit that sounds when a gear shift is made, I did this stop remind myself I'm in tippy mode. Pretty sure I'll utilise the buzzer to warn me of any failures as well.

There are a few other parts yet to arrive, and a decision to made on an enclosure. Then some soldering, and an "easy to fit" wiring harness... but, I'd hope to have this in the car by April.

I meant April 2015.

Anyway, the project progressed over the holidays. I now have some PCB carrying fuses and the resister required for the other end of the cruise control circuit.

I then 3D printed an enclosure to fit in the console bin. No top covers yet, but it will act as a false floor in the console bin.

Bench test worked. The parts fit the enclosure. It looks good so far.

Having said that, I plan to start again, from scratch, using a mm Arduino Nano board with a more compact PCB. The relay pack/board will have to stay as far as I can tell. I need at least three with the programming I'm using. I'll test using these parts, see if I let the smoke out and then reduce the size of everything.

Like I said, it works on the bench. Just waiting to find the time to go to the wreckers. I wanted to use the same wire colours, in the harness I make, as what's seen in the car. Next week hopefully I run the system in the car.

Bench test using 12v supply
http://i.imgur.com/0zTrFdy.jpg

Test fit in enclosure
http://i.imgur.com/NdaaCYJ.jpg

Also considering the possibility of using a 380 steering wheel over the Ralliart one.

So, I sourced an Arduino Nano board and a much smaller 4 x relay board for this project. The foot print is now about 60mm square and maybe 40mm in height. Spent a day getting everything to work before deciding to just "try" a purely mechanical approach.

A few quick 3D prints, a trip to Bunnings and the bearing shop, and I had a working prototype. The whole thing cost me $30 and it works. Only catch is, due to the nature of my injury I dont have enough strength to pull back on the stick (shift down). As a work around I pulled the selector mechanism out, measured up the torsion spring in there and sent a drawing off to a specialist. I should have a few different (lighter) springs to try in the next couple of weeks. My "Plan B" is a crude gym of ockey straps hanging from my ceiling to try strengthen what muscle is left in the arm.

The arm is pretty agricultural looking, but its a prototype. I'm trying to decide if I use up some favours having the bulk of it fabricated from CNC machined aluminium. The image is of version 3 of the prototype and includes the extension piece I had to make to get a better relationship between my arm and the turnbuckle. I'm also on my third attempt of the "cup/clamp" part that fits around my stump.

http://i.imgur.com/AAbHmXil.jpg

Full Size Image (http://i.imgur.com/AAbHmXi.jpg)

So I have a working arm. See album of the actual arm HERE (http://imgur.com/a/4htc0)

http://i.imgur.com/2jOdyoXl.jpg

About three quarters of the way through printing these parts I redesigned my "redesigned" shift knob/button for increased height. Watch out for an update there. I think the greater height will improve movement again.

The test drive proves it works. But, that I have a few tweaks to do. I have to take up the free play in the rod ends (10mm dia hole to M8 bolt = sloppy). And I need lock nuts on the turn buckle.

Once I have a final arrangement I'll print the parts in black and finish them better. The shift knob shown here has additional mounting holes so I could trial different positions - final prototype wont have as many.

EDIT
I forgot to mention I had custom springs made for the cars shifter. Had four made, all lighter than the stock spring, by a company called National Industries - shameless plug as they were really good to deal with.

Without thew lighter spring I wouldnt have been able to down shift. No strength in the arm.

Update again. New stick and other parts being printed.... (http://imgur.com/a/bdZD3)

The new, taller, gear stick finished printing and I took it for a test run. VIDEO HERE (http://youtu.be/MHFTvbm_nZg)

It's still needs the bugs ironed out, but this is my "H Pattern to Sequential" shifter. With my limited movement and this I'm pretty confident I could manually convert my AWD. Will take measurements from my sons car this weekend, print a half scale model and check the mechanism works. Then push on to having it fabricated.[ Web gallery of the static model so far. http://imgur.com/a/5lAJa

Shifter getting closer now. (http://i.imgur.com/DVwUwYWl.jpg)

Looking to make a few final tweaks then printing an at least half scale working model.

I didn't read the whole thread... But how come you didn't follow the original idea of having the 380 steering wheel control the tiptronic?

Also, if you don't mind me asking, how did you lose your arm?

I didn't read the whole thread... But how come you didn't follow the original idea of having the 380 steering wheel control the tiptronic? Also, if you don't mind me asking, how did you lose your arm? I believe I went for the me mechanical option because of the simplicity. While I did have the arduino option functioning and ready to go, I didn't really like the idea of hacking the harness. And, using the 380 wheel meant messing with the airbag wiring, which made me nervous. Further to all of this is my personal need/want to drive manual again. So, with the "arm" is essentially a stepping stone in that direction. The shifter I'm working on does what the Ikeya sequential shifter does - converts H pattern to sequential. I'm hoping that mine won't cost as much or require as much effort to shift. It's a long way off, a lot of development and legalities to go through yet, but I'd like to either put a manual gearbox in my AWD or pick up a FWD manual VRX.

Edit;
I lost the arm (and my spleen) in a motorbike accident, way back in 1998.

I just had a look at that Ikeya shifter. That means any manual can be made to a sequential more or less?
I always assumed these cars ran a special transmission rather than shifter assembly.

Are you still using the OEM steering wheel, or did you get the 380 wheel fitted?


Regarding your bike accident, in the end was their relief that you survived, or just anger (or whatever other feeling) that a split second has changed the course of your life in such a profound way?

I just had a look at that Ikeya shifter. That means any manual can be made to a sequential more or less? I always assumed these cars ran a special transmission rather than shifter assembly. Are you still using the OEM steering wheel, or did you get the 380 wheel fitted? Regarding your bike accident, in the end was their relief that you survived, or just anger (or whatever other feeling) that a split second has changed the course of your life in such a profound way? My brief discussion with Ikeya was that their shifters only work with certain cars. The EVO one only works with the EVO gearbox. Which, in my limited research tells me that might not be so. The W5M5 twin cable arrangement does not seem different to the F5M5, the cable ends appear the same... It just seems like it might work. But, the key shifter has too long a throw for my "short arm" and all the videos I've seen suggest the action might require me strength than I have in that shoulder. I'm using a Ralliart wheel still, no 380 wheel. I just had the arduino shifter functioning on the bench with the stock cruise control stick. Currently, my biggest bill in getting this working is the car. No manual conversions in the near future, so I have to replace the car. And, replace it with what? If I do another Magna it'll mean another 380 engine conversion (I can't go back to 3.5 now) and possibly a manual conversion for that car. Or, I run off and get another car I could leave close to stock. It's just hard to give up AWD. Loving AWD lately. In the meantime I've been exercising my shoulder and working up a very basic prosthetic - working toward changing gears with the stock shifter pattern. This is hard work though, and it hurts like a mofo. My last revision of my own sequential shifter has been printed aside from the heartsick. The cable operating mechanism works great but I need to sort the gear stick mechanism... http://i.imgur.com/1apa8qM.jpg As for post accident thinking... It was mostly denial and distraction. I'd survived enough events leading up to the accident to be thoroughly convinced I was indestructible. And if you'd seen some of the stuff I've walked away from you'd think the same. The distraction was family court, trying to see my son, a brief period of homelessness and unemployment. Was a bumpy ride. Once I got the denial thing worked out of my system everything else became really easy. I don't think I'm bitter about it if that's what you're asking, certainly not angry. Having said that, I do get pretty worked up when somebody with what I perceive as less of a disability complains about their lives or uses said disability as a crutch/cross to bear. So, maybe I still have some bugs to work out.

I think Mitsubishi transmissions of that era are all very similar so I wouldn't be surprised if indeed the Evo sequential shifter works. For example, the shifter assembly between a Mirage and an Evo 4-6 is interchangeable.
If you do want a manual AWD car then maybe a Liberty is a good option to consider? Big capacity N/A as well as turbo options.


I guess the human psyche is both flawed and fragile. Maybe it takes something bad to happen to appreciate the good. Though at the same time maybe suffering is relative. Who is to say someone with a lesser disability does not feel just as bad as someone with a greater disability?
I remember watching one of those reality hospital shows, and there was a guy who had a bike accident and resulted in a triple amputee. I think I am a fairly empathetic person and just the idea of the shock that that poor person would be faced with when he woke up really resonated with me.

I think Mitsubishi transmissions of that era are all very similar so I wouldn't be surprised if indeed the Evo sequential shifter works. For example, the shifter assembly between a Mirage and an Evo 4-6 is interchangeable. If you do want a manual AWD car then maybe a Liberty is a good option to consider? Big capacity N/A as well as turbo options. I guess the human psyche is both flawed and fragile. Maybe it takes something bad to happen to appreciate the good. Though at the same time maybe suffering is relative. Who is to say someone with a lesser disability does not feel just as bad as someone with a greater disability? I remember watching one of those reality hospital shows, and there was a guy who had a bike accident and resulted in a triple amputee. I think I am a fairly empathetic person and just the idea of the shock that that poor person would be faced with when he woke up really resonated with me.


Interesting to know there's some interchangeability with shifters. I have been putting a fair amount of thought into this whole amputee vs manual gearbox thing, and have decided to attack it now from a few different angles. Pending talks with my physio, I might cobble together a form of exercise an machine with a stock shifter assembly and prosthetic. I did some rough math on the Ikeya shifter, so I'll mess around with that also, as far as increasing strength and range of movement. The other option I'm considering is the use of a short shifter, like what I see on RPW's site. This would reduce the throw needed and might suit me better.

With my arm I was fortunate enough to keep it long enough to want it removed. It was dead weight, and eventually became a real health issue. It took some convincing but they eventually amputated some ten months post accident. Having that dead arm was the only real thug holding me back, and was back at work four months after.

How does the Ikeya shifter work exactly? does it just follow the H pattern at the shifter base or does it do something on the actual transmission?


So, you had your arm/hand but just had no movement in it initially?
Were you aware of the accident, or did you just wake up in the hospital?

The shifter, Ikeya or otherwise, uses two cables (select and shift). The stock shifter is quite simple; you pull or push the stick to its far left or right position and this pushes/pulls the select cable. Pushing/pulling on the gear stick (forward/back) works the shift cable. The ikeya shifter does all of this using a single grooved cam plate (from what I can tell) on a ratcheted shaft. I went with this arrangement with my shifter, but I didn't want to spend a lot of money making a huge mistake, so I planned on using two slotted cam plates I could change out/replace until I got things to work just right.

Physio be damned to BTW, I'm started to nail bits of wood together, making an exercise rig.

I had the arm removed because it was just a hunk of dead meat - no movement, no feeling and six neurologists all agreed it was time to take it off. It was a crazy time, I could be walking around for hours with this thing trailing blood everywhere and not know. I remember helping a friend work on his car and my arm fell across the exhaust manifold - didn't even know until I smelt it cooking. I even had a dog try to eat it, like it was chewing bone or something. It all got pretty creepy and uncomfortable.

The doctors wanted me to keep it. They told me that in 15 years I may have regained 20% of my original movement. They offered surgery - 30% movement with a 50% chance of becoming a quadriplegic. Then they just wanted to experiment with the phantom limb pain... drugs man, loads and loads of drugs. All of this wasn't helping me get back on my feet that's for sure. So, I told them I had a mate with a V8 Falcon and a dropsaw - they take the arm or I do it myself. They called my bluff, and while I didn't use a dropsaw (I used a hacksaw) my driver passed out mid way through my home amputation and I ended up calling the ambulance for him. Buddabing-buddaboom - they took the arm off two weeks later. Turns out, after all of that, the joints in the arm had calcified beyond repair anyway.

H-Pattern to Sequential shifter - complete.

https://grabcad.com/library/383594

http://i.imgur.com/wNMqxQE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UZWQejr.jpg

My first 3D printed prototype worked, highlighted a few bugs and paved the way to the model seen in the links. Currently printing the next prototype.

Have spotted a few potential cars for the project. Just holding off until the tax man takes his pound of flesh.

Looks good! Is this a bolt in bolt out change?

Looks good! Is this a bolt in bolt out change?

That's the plan. To get through the certification stage easily I've avoided any modifications to the car. This allows me to get by an a mechanical/LC3 certification. Not sure if I'm going to certify it, mechanically, for me or for "normal" people - there'd be much less load if I kept it focused on me and my short arm.

I'm yet to get the cable end detail/attachment points into my model. Just thought I'd mention that. I also left out the tension springs here and there, might put them in tonight. Some parts would make more sense if the springs were pictured.

The next plastic prototype is 72 hours away. That's 72 hours printing time... Might be another day or so of assembly/finishing and fine tuning.

Very interesting. You may have a few orders of these for those out there wanting a sequential shifter for their cars..... Could be a nice little profit

Very interesting. You may have a few orders of these for those out there wanting a sequential shifter for their cars..... Could be a nice little profit

Ha! That would be a nice pipe dream, thanks chief. Let me focus on producing a functioning and tested unit.

Besides, I like the idea of releasing it open source style - plans are free, you build/modify it to suit your requirements.

If you check out the GrabCad link in one of my previous posts, I uploaded photos of the current (functioning) 3D printed until. Still need to add a gear stick and the prosthetic "hand" and get a cake to operate the neutral/reverse lockout.

Everything works, though plastic is letting me down. Too much flex is making the gear lever slow to return to its centre position. And I am a little unsure how things will work once I tack the rest of the lever on...

Mal has sorted me out with a stock shifter. I'll use this to improve my muscle strength and movement as part of Plan B. The prosthetic for Plan B is going to be a little tricky though.

3D Printing of the plastic prototype is complete. VIDEO HERE (http://youtu.be/3N6dlxVpAhk)

I am genuinely excited by this project, and I have been following it earnestly through all its variations since the original 380 steering wheel audio control days. Progressing from a simple (in comparison) electronic modification to a full-on DIY sequential shift conversion, and for an amputee... there's definitely an amazing story in there, and I very much admire your dedication and determination.

When I enter that infinite-resource, unlimited-possibility thought bubble (you know, the one you have in the shower, or when you're lying in bed when you can't sleep), I often throw around the idea of a short shifter or, preferably, sequential shifter mod for my beast, and seeing this project come to life makes those dreams all the more real. It would be spectacular if the system were certified for "normal" use, but that would probably just be me being selfish — you are already doing so much by doing this open-source style.

Although, is there a possibility that the shifter could be made to easily reverse the shift pattern? As you explained in the last video, you have designed it thus far as pushing = upshift, and pulling = downshift; the same as the factory method for tippy autos. I presume this is something to do with your arm, or just a personal preference that you've got. I personally much prefer to pull to upshift, because racecar — if I didn't already have manual, the tippy shift switch swap would have been one of my first mods.

I am genuinely excited by this project, and I have been following it earnestly through all its variations since the original 380 steering wheel audio control days. Progressing from a simple (in comparison) electronic modification to a full-on DIY sequential shift conversion, and for an amputee... there's definitely an amazing story in there, and I very much admire your dedication and determination.

When I enter that infinite-resource, unlimited-possibility thought bubble (you know, the one you have in the shower, or when you're lying in bed when you can't sleep), I often throw around the idea of a short shifter or, preferably, sequential shifter mod for my beast, and seeing this project come to life makes those dreams all the more real. It would be spectacular if the system were certified for "normal" use, but that would probably just be me being selfish — you are already doing so much by doing this open-source style.

Although, is there a possibility that the shifter could be made to easily reverse the shift pattern? As you explained in the last video, you have designed it thus far as pushing = upshift, and pulling = downshift; the same as the factory method for tippy autos. I presume this is something to do with your arm, or just a personal preference that you've got. I personally much prefer to pull to upshift, because racecar — if I didn't already have manual, the tippy shift switch swap would have been one of my first mods.

Thanks chief. I'm only cresting the hill of challenges involved in making this thing a reality, I now have to make it through the red tape side of things and get used to driving with it.

I sure have met a lot of resistance/negativity throughout the project. The two companies that make shifters like these have both responded with "buy an automatic car" - hence why I'm making my own. The three driving schools I had contacted all said "cannot be done, buy an automatic car". I did manage to talk one guy around though, and he was helpful. You don't lose an arm and rebuild your life just to be told you cannot do something.

Because the strength in my short arm is improving I didn't want to waste money going to the trouble of quantifying what strength I had/have. Instead, I'm using the figures from NASA - Human Performance Capabilities (http://msis.jsc.nasa.gov/sections/section04.htm) - as inputs for the computer modelling. The certifying engineer believes this would be acceptable for his end also. Essentially, it will be designed/fabricated so an able bodied person can operate the shifter.

Switching the shift up/shift down wouldn't be so difficult. I'll look into it.

I'm keen to make this fit into a Magna also. Catch is, there's a lot more cable movement required to get gears, and, there's a lot less room for the shifter in the centre console area. Also, the mounting bolt holes are in an odd location. Not saying it couldn't be done, just saying it'll take some looking into.

Have you thought about using solenoids and a few microswitches?

Have you thought about using solenoids and a few microswitches?

You betcha I did! You can get some whoop arse solenoids now, and with arduino it would be a snap. BUT, this calls for a mechanical certification as well as an electrical certification. I went to one of our guys at work about this and the first thing he starting talking about was fail safes and safety out the whazoo. My simple "bang a few solenoids together" turned into a pretty expensive project REAL fast. Not to mention Ardiuno is not an acceptable programming start point apparently (unconfirmed) and I was told to look into another board... but promptly forgot its name. Dollar signs make my memory fuzzy.

Mechanical = simple and less expensive.

Long time no update.

The sequential shifter hasnt moved at all since its last re-design.

The arm however is complete and has had some initial testing, with good results.

http://imgur.com/vaZwlXI.jpg

The hand releases as expected. Shifts gears as expected.

I did have a short shifter in the car for a while, but have reverted back to the original unit. Having done this, as well as bulk exercises with my short arm, I can grab all five gears really easily.

The local news are going to be doing a bit about me and the arm next week. My ugly mug on TV.