Hi all my KH verada has a small auto problem, it has a problem with flairing, guess that what you call it, when it shifts back a gear it say from 4th to 3rd, it drops into neutral for a split second then goes into gear which causes the car to jerk, the car has done 220,000 k's, trans fluid is new, maybe its just worn, anyone have any ideas? cheers

Mine is the same at 130,000km....fluid is pink....get a slight 'soft' jerk. I figure it is probably quite common as you do see it mentioned not just for Magnas but Camrys and other FWDs.

Every auto I've ever owned had trouble giving smooth kick down. (I'm assuming you are using the accelerator to make the gearbox kick down, rather than moving the lever.)

So I was very surprised than my most recently acquired Magna, a TJ with 115,000 km on it, does it beautifully. Full throttle kick down down to first, fourth down to second, seamless! So it can be done!

I figure that input to the ECU from the throttle position determines kick down engagement and smooth take-up of a lower gear, so (perhaps) moving your TPS slightly one way, then testing the car's shift pattern might be a way to get a smooth shift?

Every auto I've ever owned had trouble giving smooth kick down. (I'm assuming you are using the accelerator to make the gearbox kick down, rather than moving the lever.)

So I was very surprised than my most recently acquired Magna, a TJ with 115,000 km on it, does it beautifully. Full throttle kick down down to first, fourth down to second, seamless! So it can be done!

I figure that input to the ECU from the throttle position determines kick down engagement and smooth take-up of a lower gear, so (perhaps) moving your TPS slightly one way, then testing the car's shift pattern might be a way to get a smooth shift?

My TL will change seamlessly with the pedal to the metal, it's just when cruising at 60Kph and you come to a slight rise and push the pedal slightly the car hesitates for a split second as though it's in neutral, then engages 3rd. Maybe the TPS idea of yours is worth playing around with. I also wonder exactly what happens when it hesitates - revs don't rise so is fuel cut to injectors for a split second???

That's probably the lockup in the torque converter disengaging before you get the 4 to 3 shift. Live with it.

I didn't think the TC locked up till above 80kph on a steady throttle but that sounds plausible. Never experienced it in other cars.

Unless it is an obvious flare in the shift, its not really a hesitation as such - it just "holds" onto gears a lot longer. A back-to-back comparo of (my TJ) and a reletives TH (both 3.5L, non-tippy 4-sp), reveals that my TJ want to hold onto gears a longer, where as the TH was more willing to shift up. But what this did mean is that the H was hunting a lot more on any part-throttle applications. Im under the impression and belief that the engineers changed the shift mapping to increase the life of the problematic 4-sp for J models onwards. And there is some truth to this - from my observation I know of a lot more TE -TH models with auto problems than TJ's.

One thing I love about these 4-speeders (only when compared to other autos of Commo's, Falcs and Camrys of the same era) is the full throttle shift quality - step on the loud pedal and whether its shifting up or down, damn is it seamless and smooth. Get into the others and "whip lash" quickly comes to mind.

Unless it is an obvious flare in the shift, its not really a hesitation as such - it just "holds" onto gears a lot longer. A back-to-back comparo of (my TJ) and a reletives TH (both 3.5L, non-tippy 4-sp), reveals that my TJ want to hold onto gears a longer, where as the TH was more willing to shift up. But what this did mean is that the H was hunting a lot more on any part-throttle applications. Im under the impression and belief that the engineers changed the shift mapping to increase the life of the problematic 4-sp for J models onwards. And there is some truth to this - from my observation I know of a lot more TE -TH models with auto problems than TJ's.

One thing I love about these 4-speeders (only when compared to other autos of Commo's, Falcs and Camrys of the same era) is the full throttle shift quality - step on the loud pedal and whether its shifting up or down, damn is it seamless and smooth. Get into the others and "whip lash" quickly comes to mind.

Interesting comparison.
I find my TJ very shift happy around town. At 60 with gentle acceleration it will drop into fourth, but the slightest decrease in speed or increase in throttle drops it to third. Got bored with the constant "I can't make up my mind" behaviour, so I hold it in third to at least 75 KPH and I know there is smooth sailing ahead. You are right about shift quality though, smooth enough in both directions to be unnoticeable, unless i look at the tacho.
Mine is really keep to kick down. Scared myself when I accelerated in second expecting it to hold second but it changed to first and i was doing 60 KPH before I knew it. I now keep fresh underwear in the boot . . . . no, not really, I just treat the loud pedal with a bit more respect.

Could it be you are just noticing slight variations in TPS settings when you did your comparison? Could be interesting to try small changes in TPS setting and see what influence this has on shift speeds.


None of this helps with the OPs problem of shift flare though.

if you havent tried it, do a full reset. disconnect the battery for a few mins. i did it as i drive quite hard and my wife drives sedately (5 spd tippy) i was getting a long change between 2nd and 3rd. did the relearn process and now i have crisp changes in all geras up and down. i think its good practice to do once a year.

Interesting comparison.
I find my TJ very shift happy around town. At 60 with gentle acceleration it will drop into fourth, but the slightest decrease in speed or increase in throttle drops it to third. Got bored with the constant "I can't make up my mind" behaviour, so I hold it in third to at least 75 KPH and I know there is smooth sailing ahead. You are right about shift quality though, smooth enough in both directions to be unnoticeable, unless i look at the tacho.
Mine is really keep to kick down. Scared myself when I accelerated in second expecting it to hold second but it changed to first and i was doing 60 KPH before I knew it. I now keep fresh underwear in the boot . . . . no, not really, I just treat the loud pedal with a bit more respect.

Could it be you are just noticing slight variations in TPS settings when you did your comparison? Could be interesting to try small changes in TPS setting and see what influence this has on shift speeds.


None of this helps with the OPs problem of shift flare though.

Haha yeah I love my gearbox when its cold cos it shift very early in the rev range (which when im around town, its what i want!) I find that in my J ive got to lift off the throttle altogether sometimes get it to go up a cog. But I havent yet messed around with any shift maps yet, gonna buy the cable and stuff in the next month or so. But im hoping to significantly alter those shift points....wont wreck the box with a first gear kickdown doing 65 lol!!! But its a cunning gearbox sometimes thou -if your cruising around 80-90 kmh up noticeable gradiant/hill and it kicks back to 3rd (even though its holding speed and only little increase to the throttle is made) and you lift off the throttle so it hopefully goes back into 4th (because you know it can!) yet it still holds 3rd!!!! I go up a hill called Mt. Sugarloaf that splits Newcastle and the Hunter Valley here in NSW everyday and unless im doing more than 95-100 kmh and it kicks down into 3rd, it wont slide back into 4th. Rather annoying considering I do have fuel milage in mind....sometimes lol.

But Deano: Around 18 months ago I had a sensor switch in the 'box let go. In the week leading up to its inability to drive, it had a small yet noticable flare in the shift, until i gunned it coming out of a roundabout (when it kicked down from 3rd to 2nd) where it flared to the limiter (cos i had the throttle pinned) then went into gear, flared again (i backed off by the 2nd flare) and went into gear (and repeated a few times) before I pulled over, turned it off. Went to drive off lightly and started again. I disconnected the battery for 5-10 mins, then drove off again when it started in and stayed in 3rd gear for the rest of the 40km trip home no matter what foward gear i put the selector in. And thankfully it was only that sensor that let go.

But Deano I couldnt tell you what this sensor was or where it was located, but try Robssei's relearn process first. Im not clued up when it comes to the mechanicals of a slushbox, so I had no option but to send my J to the auto-workshop at the time. Only set me back $250, and that included the $80 (35km) tow from my place to the workshop.

Mitch

Thanks for everyone thats replied to my auto problem. It is worse under low revs around town, like when I'm driving at 60 kph and it goes into 4th then I hit a small hill and it jumps back to 3rd, it hunts then finds 3rd, but under exceloration like overtaking its fine, so I think the best thing for me to do is just put it in 3rd and not "drive" around town. I have always thought it should be programed not to go into 4th gear untill speeds over 80kph anyway as you don't need 4th gear untill over 80kph. 4th gear around town doesn't save fuel just makes you use the brakes more.

Thanks for everyone thats replied to my auto problem. It is worse under low revs around town, like when I'm driving at 60 kph and it goes into 4th then I hit a small hill and it jumps back to 3rd, it hunts then finds 3rd, but under exceloration like overtaking its fine, so I think the best thing for me to do is just put it in 3rd and not "drive" around town. I have always thought it should be programed not to go into 4th gear untill speeds over 80kph anyway as you don't need 4th gear untill over 80kph. 4th gear around town doesn't save fuel just makes you use the brakes more.

Actually your description of the problem is exactly as I outlined in my post #4 where I said "it's just when cruising at 60Kph and you come to a slight rise and push the pedal slightly the car hesitates for a split second as though it's in neutral, then engages 3rd. "
I find the problem is accentuated when driving "nanny" style, but when enjoying the car it is not evident.