I noticed some oil smears around the sparkplugs on my TL with ~85K on the clock, finally got around to investigating and found oil inside the tube on several (looks to be at the back bank as well), and some searching shows it to be leaking tube seals. (Was actually suprised by the tube when I took off what I thought was the plug, didn't realise they were that far down on a 3rd gen)

Question being, why would it happen at such low mileage, and is this suss? Apart from a slight thirst and very slight roughness (coming from a 2nd gen V6) at idle, she seems quite clean and willing. But I'm a bit worried now.

Will call around for some quotes to fix; from what I've read, a bank's worth of tube seals and rocker gasket should be ~$50, and the plenum metal gasket should theoretically be reuseable, otherwise it's $8 from Mits, correct? So perhaps $200 added to a regular service should be a figure to aim for? If it's ridiculous I'll look at doing it myself when I get some time (!)

Anything else to look for at the time? I don't think there are any knowledgeable Magna servicing guys around here, so I'm thinking I'll provide printouts of the appropriate parts of Section 11B of the service manual?

PS. When's timing belt due, 100K or 200K? If 100K, would I be best to look at getting it done at the same time, or wait the year+ that it'll take to clock up the extra k's?

Full rocker cover gasket kits including the 3 tube seals from me are $27 per bank plus freight. You need to use 2 kits for 1 motor

Just because the car is only 87k old, remember it is still 6 or 7 years old, this will be an age thing

PS. When's timing belt due, 100K or 200K? If 100K, would I be best to look at getting it done at the same time, or wait the year+ that it'll take to clock up the extra k's?

Mal has already mentioned that the tube seals will be an age thing, but so is the timing belt mate. An old belt is just as bad as a belt with high k's. Get it changed if its still original because you will be way way over the service interval for belt change

Mal has already mentioned that the tube seals will be an age thing, but so is the timing belt mate. An old belt is just as bad as a belt with high k's. Get it changed if its still original because you will be way way over the service interval for belt change

Yes, think its 100,000km or 5years for the timing belts, Id be getting that changed as soon as possible!

Would we trust any competent mechanical workshop to do a belt change etc., or should it be a Magna guy? Don't really want to take it to Mits and get charged a packet, but want to get it done properly and not worry that they don't know what they're doing. Would you say that anyone capable of doing a V6 from any manufacturer should be more than competent/reliable?

Thanks for the quote Mal, will ring around and see what places say, if they quote too much for parts I might source them from you and supply them the bits.

I guess if the timing belt is being done it's best to get the platinum plugs etc replaced? Guess I need to read up on the 100K service, wasn't expecting to have to do it for a while as it's just about to hit 83K. But we want it to keep running reliably, and do have the money, I just don't like parting with it unnecessarily!

My TJ 2002 VR-X just had all of those seals done recently and I thought the same thing. Then again, as they said to me, its 9 years old, despite only 95,000 km's they are a rubber item and are a perishable.

It is what it is.

Boosty

Would we trust any competent mechanical workshop to do a belt change etc., or should it be a Magna guy? Don't really want to take it to Mits and get charged a packet, but want to get it done properly and not worry that they don't know what they're doing. Would you say that anyone capable of doing a V6 from any manufacturer should be more than competent/reliable?

Thanks for the quote Mal, will ring around and see what places say, if they quote too much for parts I might source them from you and supply them the bits.

I guess if the timing belt is being done it's best to get the platinum plugs etc replaced? Guess I need to read up on the 100K service, wasn't expecting to have to do it for a while as it's just about to hit 83K. But we want it to keep running reliably, and do have the money, I just don't like parting with it unnecessarily!

Ask around on here for the best person in your local area to do a belt change. Where are you located?

Ensure that the water pump is replaced when doing the belt.

Just as a comparison, my TJ was 9 years old (last year) at 111,000 km when I changed the original cam belt and spark plugs.
No oil on the old plugs, so I assume the tube seals are OK.
Cam belt - idlers, hydraulic tensioner, water pump etc were fine, belt in good condition.

So I needed to change just the belt and plugs, I'm surprised seals are gone, but I'd expect the cam belt to be a simple job at 85,000 Km and not need bits other than a new belt.
But you never know, until someone opens it up.

Just as a comparison, my TJ was 9 years old (last year) at 111,000 km when I changed the original cam belt and spark plugs.
No oil on the old plugs, so I assume the tube seals are OK.
Cam belt - idlers, hydraulic tensioner, water pump etc were fine, belt in good condition.

So I needed to change just the belt and plugs, I'm surprised seals are gone, but I'd expect the cam belt to be a simple job at 85,000 Km and not need bits other than a new belt.
But you never know, until someone opens it up.

Why wouldn't you just change all of it, and avoid running the risk of having a second costly belt change procedure when the pump may fail in a matter of months?

Just because your car was fine physically does not hold true for someone elses car. It may have had a harder life, lived in harsher condition than yours. All things that can be detrimental to replaceable parts.

Decisions... Just rang the local Mits service centre (Blue Ribbon at Yamanto/Ipswich), the guy seemed quite knowledgeable, gave a few options that kinda seem OK pricing but adds up!

Standard 90K service was $995, this is the timing belt, fuel filter etc., but the tube seals would be on top of that. He said about $50 for air filter (got a K&N)

Then it was a question of whether to add the 105K stuff like plugs (platinum), can't remember if trans fluid was under 105K or 90K.

Anyway, with pretty-much everything, it came in at around $1600! Initial 90K price seemed OK, but the end result pricing seems to jump up quick. This was without cam seals and water pump, which he said are generally good to the next belt change, which appears to be the consensus here.

Thoughts on pricing/requirements? I'd been thinking a trannie flush is probably a good idea anyway, and I guess theoretically this should set it up for quite a few years of worry-free(!) driving, but can't decide if it's going overboard, and whether the price is within reason given what's listed...

As you are in QLD and not near Madmagna, I'd try Ultratune - they should be about 30-40% cheaper than Mitsui and I've heard plenty of good reports about them over the years.

Why wouldn't you just change all of it, and avoid running the risk of having a second costly belt change procedure when the pump may fail in a matter of months?

Just because your car was fine physically does not hold true for someone elses car. It may have had a harder life, lived in harsher condition than yours. All things that can be detrimental to replaceable parts.

Dave, I do my own work on my cars and I would like to make the following observations.
(1) A belt change is very cheap as a DIY exercise.
(2) I don't believe in replacing parts that check out as being still serviceable. Water pumps on the Mitsus are well designed and have a very long service life. 85,000 km is not normally a good time to replace a water pump.

I do believe in checking everything and replacing parts that are worn or defective, but NOT in deciding to replace something on the off chance it may go defective in a few months before you have checked inside the engine. Gets too expensive that way, especially seeing local mechanics charge like wounded bulls on labour and parts prices.

Like I said: But you never know, until someone opens it up. Mechanic needs to be the judge of what needs replacing when you get one to do a belt change.

Dave, I do my own work on my cars and I would like to make the following observations.
(1) A belt change is very cheap as a DIY exercise.
(2) I don't believe in replacing parts that check out as being still serviceable. Water pumps on the Mitsus are well designed and have a very long service life. 85,000 km is not normally a good time to replace a water pump.

I do believe in checking everything and replacing parts that are worn or defective, but NOT in deciding to replace something on the off chance it may go defective in a few months before you have checked inside the engine. Gets too expensive that way, especially seeing local mechanics charge like wounded bulls on labour and parts prices.

Like I said: But you never know, until someone opens it up. Mechanic needs to be the judge of what needs replacing when you get one to do a belt change.

Do you think rogue streak is familiar with DIY belt changes if he is asking WHO the best is to do it? Like i said, why risk having to do the whole thing twice when it is an expensive exercise at $1000 a pop for a mechanics labour and parts. I would rather have peace of mind thanks.

It's all a matter of perspective.
I get peace of mind by doing the job myself, and not replacing parts that are still good.

But each to his own.

Why not let the mechanic decide if the water pump needs changing at 85,000 km? Defer to his superior knowledge, if you don't know your way around a car engine yourself?

for the price if he is paying someone to do timing belt get the water pump done
i had mine fail at 120kms i learnt the hard way

Don't know if I'll get the belt done yet. This all came about because of some leaking tube seals; I think I might replace these myself when I go down to my old man's place in a few weeks, he's just been doing his 24V V6 Peugeot.
I'm not incompetent, I simply don't have the time or facilities to so this kind of thing. Dad's got the workshop and even a purpose-built pit in the garage for doing under-car work. We've completely rebuilt engines and gearboxes in the past.
I think I'll ring around a bit more, might just go for a standard service at the moment and fix the tube seals shortly, and check the condition of the belt at that time. Depending on what it looks like, I'll decide whether to wait 'til it's closer to it's due date. Will see what Ultratune quote for a timing belt replacement, and check the water pump at that time.

Don't know if I'll get the belt done yet. This all came about because of some leaking tube seals; I think I might replace these myself when I go down to my old man's place in a few weeks, he's just been doing his 24V V6 Peugeot.
I'm not incompetent, I simply don't have the time or facilities to so this kind of thing. Dad's got the workshop and even a purpose-built pit in the garage for doing under-car work. We've completely rebuilt engines and gearboxes in the past.
I think I'll ring around a bit more, might just go for a standard service at the moment and fix the tube seals shortly, and check the condition of the belt at that time. Depending on what it looks like, I'll decide whether to wait 'til it's closer to it's due date. Will see what Ultratune quote for a timing belt replacement, and check the water pump at that time.

How exactly are you going to check the condition of the belt? Sure, it might be easy to see if its frayed, but you cannot easily see te hairline cracks in a worn belt that can lead to belt failure. I wouldnt be too concerned about the runners and tensioners, but the belt is perishable over time with age and constant heat cycles.

Just to confirm, after much searching; to do the rocker covers / tube seals, only the plenum needs removing, no need to remove the injectors or intake manifold?
I've read various people say between 3 and 6hrs to do this?

Just to confirm, after much searching; to do the rocker covers / tube seals, only the plenum needs removing, no need to remove the injectors or intake manifold?
I've read various people say between 3 and 6hrs to do this?

To be able to replace the back tube seals you need to remove the intake plenum, intake airbox's, and throttle body (make sure you don't move the throttle position switch). The injectors do not need to be touched. There are multiple hoses around the throttle body (for cruise, traction control etc) and also for the coolant so take note of these and make sure you reconnect the right hoses to the right location. Personally I used a bit of whiteout to make markings. There is also a hose that connects the back rocker cover to the front cover, that will likely be seized and need to be replaced - costs about $15 from Mitsu. On the other side is a EGR value and hose - give these a little clean when you take the cover off as well.

Also, when replacing the gasket lightly tap the edges of the tin which houses the gasket to pinch it and keep it tight. Try not to overtighten the bolts as the cover is very weak and bends quite easily. Unfortunately if you don't tighten it enough then it will leak - so you really got to be careful. Use a torque wrench if possible - the manual should say how much pressure is needed.


The entire process should not take you more than 1-2 hrs. I did it the first time within 2 hrs. Judging by your experience with rebuilding engines/gearboxes etc it should be much quicker for you. Nowdays I can usually get to the back rocker cover in around 20minutes. Probs could replace the gasket within an hour.

Thanks for that thekovac. I'd found a thread where Mal gave a fairly detailed listing on how to remove the plenum, and another one that had a couple of photos.

Was there a consensus on whether it's better to remove the throttle body, or leave it on and disconnect the coolant lines etc? New throttle body gasket required I assume?

I think this is sounding like something I should be able to handle, I just haven't touched these engines yet to get much of a feel for how complicated things are. I rang dad last night, and he was saying how his Peugeot has taken several days to remove the top end, sounds like it's a LOT less user friendly than the 74 (not to mention there is no service manual available for the Pug V6). Plus he's a lot less robust than he used to be.

Thanks for that thekovac. I'd found a thread where Mal gave a fairly detailed listing on how to remove the plenum, and another one that had a couple of photos.

Was there a consensus on whether it's better to remove the throttle body, or leave it on and disconnect the coolant lines etc? New throttle body gasket required I assume?

I think this is sounding like something I should be able to handle, I just haven't touched these engines yet to get much of a feel for how complicated things are. I rang dad last night, and he was saying how his Peugeot has taken several days to remove the top end, sounds like it's a LOT less user friendly than the 74 (not to mention there is no service manual available for the Pug V6). Plus he's a lot less robust than he used to be.

No worries. Seems like you found the good ole search function ;)

You don't have to remove the throttle body, but if you don't, then you will need to put the plenum on something closeby as its too hard to remove the throttle cable off the throttle body. I was not willing to try and refit the throttle body so I opted to remove the throttle body. Now with the lpg mixer on the end of the tb, I just put the manifold with it attached on small step ladder next to the car. When I did actually remove the throttle body I just reused my old gasket without a problem.

This isn't too hard to do. Its time consuming and can be a bit tiring with having to lean in everywhere and try and undo tight bolts in annoying spaces. I beleive my manifold was never removed before me so the bolts were really tight. Replacing the back spark plugs, tube seals & rocker cover was one of the first mechanical things I ever did to the car and I was able to do it without too many problems. I didn't have a torque wrench at the time so I crushed a rocker cover bolt and had a bit oil leak but other than that there was not much problems. Don't worry - you'll be fine - just don't rush it, mark everything and remember where all hoses, tubes, bolts etc go - never hurts to take photo's or write things down.

Quick question, in my searches I have seen mentioned once that the tube seals require a sealant to be used; is this correct, and if so, which sealant?

i believe sealant should never be used in an engine, if some sealant breaks free after its all together, then it could wonder in to an oil jacket and block it off. when i did mine i used the genuine tube seals, i found they sealed the best on MY car, the after market tube seals seemed a harder rubber to me