Hi guys,

Can someone who has had experience with both these cars compare and comment on:
Build quality
Ride comfort
NVH
Power/acceleration
Handling
Fuel economy

Thanks

Gday:

Essentially, there is a generation difference between the two. Dont get me wrong the Magna is great - but the 3rd gen Manga easily shows its 1996 origins, versus 2005 engineering in the 380. In most of the catagories mentioned, there is a notable generation difference between the two.

- Build Quality: Some scratch-proof interior plastics aside, quality and materials is good. Everything in the 380 shuts with a solid "thunk", panel gaps are close and consistant. Thank 2005-spec safety and engineering advancements. Magna is good for its age, and its still a decently solid car considering its mid-90's origin. They hold up better than Falcons and Commodore of the same age (escpecially the TJ/KJ onwards). I am more than happy with the condition of my 11yo TJ. Only the roof lining is starting to sag.

- Ride comfort: With the development of suspension geomerty and tuning in the decade between the developent of the Magna and 380, its a no-brainer that the 380 sacrifices less when it comes to a good balance between ride and handling. Again, whilst the Magna was class leading for ride in that late 90's generation of Australian sedans (AU Falc, VT Commo gen), it could have only got better a decade later. Ive driven a stock 380 ES and a VRX on long haul tests and was impressed with the ride in both. Even with the smaller profile tyres and stiffer suspension, the VRX still rode exceptionally. Yet the ES handled exeptionally well considering its comfort-based setup. Ride on Magnas/Veradas with no rear roll-bar fitted is still pretty good these days.

- Handling: In pure handling terms, its the stronger and stiffer chassis/shell in the 380 is what makes it really boogey in the corners. In the VRX model, it feel light, agile and is well balanced. Its an excelent driving chassis - where it doesnt rely soley of front end grip. That bit of rear-steer contributes to its sharp turn-in - FWD it may be but you need to keep those rear wheels happy too. Its turn in composure stays mid corner, only washing into gentle understeer if really pushed. Stability and traction control systems are well tuned too - switchable and not at all intrusive when left on. Brakes in the 380 are the pick of any Australian-built sedan of its era. Only circuit work will show signs of brake fade. A great drivers car, exceptional GT if you have a $10g-$15g budget. The Magnas still has decent grip in the corners, although body flex more evident. Biggest downfall is steering - Ralliart and late-sport models aside (to an extent), the wheel is completley woollen and mostly lacking in feel, although it slightly improves in age. Rely mostly on seat-feel to understand what the car is doing. Still grips well, but settles into understeer earlier in the corner. Brakes in non-sport models arnt great and personally, the ABS initally cuts in too agressivley. Hard, ABS-engaging stops from 70kmh (and above) to zero sees auto gearboxes (especially 4-speeders) throw a tantrum when you go to take off again, as it will take off in 2nd or 3rd unless you shift it to neutral before you proceed again.

- NVH: I tell you what - even by today standards, the Magna is pretty bloody quiet. I havent driven a 3rd-gen Magna with anything else other than stock 15" wheels, so im not sure if there is any increase in tyre noise from those sporting wider and thinner rubber (like VR-X, Ralliart ect). I have no suspension knock in my TJ, and even when the road gets rough, noise is noticable but far from intrusive. Only models with sports exhausts fitted (whether stock or aftermarket, I run a redback 2.5" sports on mine) there is a noticeable boominess at freeway cruising RPM. Its bareable most days, but becomes borderline intrusive on the long, constant-speed highway trips. Keep it above 120kmh on the freeway and its gone again. This issue was addressed in the 380, although I can remember it being a slight more noisier with wind noise at freeway speeds. Its was only slight, and again, far from intrusive.

- Power/Acceleration: Have done a back to back comparision on both the 380 and Magna several times now, and I have come to the conclusion that even with only 4-speed in my J versus 5 in the 380 - the 3.5L in the Magna has a far more impressive mid range punch than the 380, even though the 380 has more power and torque. The 380 is quick, dont get me wrong there, but after burying both cars in a 30kmh rolling start in first gear, seat-of-pants feel says that the Magna is quicker - but the extra cog and faster shifts from in the 380's box and the 380 is slightly quicker. A mere 1500kg probably helps the Magna's chances of giving it a run for its money. Overtaking acceleration at highway/freeway speeds in the 3.5L is great, as is the 380. But I will stand corrected - the torque in the 3.8 doesnt feel as alive or a vicious as the older 3.5.

- Fuel Economy: There is some serious fun to be had when you bury the foot in either engine - but both settle down and just slowly sip away when you just want to cruise. Ive seen 880km in a tank in my TJ - and yes, it was all country highway driving (98RON, and only myself and a small overnight bag on board). Im averaging around 10L/100km in the 90km round-trip to work everyday, 60 of those kms are spent on a highway doing anything between 80-100kmh, the rest is stop start crap. But only in this instance, can I not report on the fuel economy of day-to-day driving in a 380. I have only done highway miles in any 380 ive driven.

So as ive written, the Magna was pretty bloody good in its day. But there is a clear generation engineering and development difference between the two. So much has changed in the decade seperating the D&D of both cars. But remember also that there was two models that seperated the TJ series 2 and the 380 alone, being the TW and TL.

[b]If:
* you were looking at a good, modern, solid, safe and reliable family car - Buy a 380. Safety, equipment and overall comfort differences would well be worth the extra dollar over a late, 3rd Gen Magna.

* you were looking at a car that you can take for a weekend drive down your favourite piece of blacktop, with no intentoins of modifying - Buy a 380. The advancements in the 380's chassis and architecture makes for a far more enjoyable vehicle to drive, escpecially in VR-X or GT form. Most Ralliart Magna owners may disagree with this. And I spose they would have a point lol...

* you were looing at a reliable, 2nd family car - Still nothing wrong with the old Magna lol. You can get into a cheap TJ for under 5 grand now. But if your pocket was bigger than that, but not big enough for a 380, TL/TW is the go. TL/TW were had 5-sp Autos and climate control standard.... :)

* you wanted to start to get into the modification of something for the hell of it on a budget - TJ Magna. Cheap to buy, you can rip out drivetrains, interiors, exteriors from later [written-off] models and transform your ride. Im doing this with my TJ atm, yet its my only car (and I have no wife/children commitments in this stage of life). Bought it for $4500 at auction 3 years ago, and for under $1000 I have installed better brakes, suspension, strutbrace, sound system (deck, amp and speakers), window tint, and head/tail lights. Pretty bloody cheap if you ask me.

Hope this helps lol.

Mitch

Hi Mitch, thanks for the detailed review, it certainly did clear things up for me :)

The KJ Series 2 and the Sports Magna models came with 5 speed auto, and I would definitely only buy a 5 speed auto.

I know the 380 is the logical choice and it seems much nicer the thing that is holding me back is the way it looks. Maybe not offensive, but definitely not pretty. The 3rd gen Veradas I think personally look great, even being so old. This is why the KL/W was not in my list, as they look hideous.

The other thing holding me back is that in the 380 price range it seems there are many other options. I think the Accord Euro would be a better car and offer better economy.
The car I am buying is just a daily. No plans to modify it (maybe a stereo). And it has to be able to do everything well except spirited driving which I have another car for which I do not want to use as a daily.

I have been looking at some models offered from BMW and Mercedes, and they are appealing I must say, but reliability and cost of fixing something is scaring me

imho, from what i have seen, the 380's i have been in, with around 60,000ks on them, hav e a much cheaper interior build. for example, the passenger airbag cutout was lifting and warping on both, the door insert fabric had let go, on both, even theough they were only 3 years old at the time, and the seat fabric was loose and didnt line up to where it should. my magna, a 96 te, didnt start to do these things until it was over 10 years old.

on the other hand, i think the 380 out performs a standard magna. ride, handling, acceleration and braking are all better than a standard magna. acceleration, is sooo close to being the same though.

to sum up, i think the 380 was made alot cheaper than the 3rd gen (at least my te) and there is definitely not 9 years of development evident between the 3rd gen and the 380.

@ Spetz - yeah Id be going the 5-sp auto too (or manual). I agree with you there though - the basic variants of the TL/W and 380 are a bit plain-jane, has Telstra fleet vehicle or sales-rep written all over it. But Ive seen a few cool looking basic models of both with a nice set of 18's and a dark window tint which even that alone changed my perception of those models. But VR-X models in both the TL/W and 380 are hansom cars - agressive, yet not tacky (like a late model HSV). 380 VR-X the more conservative of the two but im not being picky.

The Euro is an excellent car - the previous gen (2004-2008ish) was a class leader. Exceptional fit and finish. But, when it comes to spare part for both, damn are Hondas expensive. Having worked at Repco for a number of years, it opened up my eyes up to the prices of new (non-genuine) parts for all brands. And its one of the reasons why I went a Magna for my first car purchase (I had an old Hilux before hand). I could work on it myself, the parts where easy to come by and where decently priced - yet the build quality and finish was better than a VT/X or AU Falc. But Honda-wise, those expensive parts are a pain in the ass to fit, which sends servicing costs up.

But if your not planning on spirited driving, and dont plan of altering the look of a TL/W, Id safely say a nice, well looked after TJ2 Verada is the go. The extra options should make the daily commute a little nicer.

@ Belto: What your saying is something that I have been slowing hearing a bit more of in the recent past. The percieved quality on a 380 is better than a Magna, but by the sounds of things, just doesnt hold up as well. A common failure I am aware of are power window motors and mechinisms. I know that the 380 was built on a budget - MMA had ****-all money to spend. But dont think that development cost of the 3rd-Gen Magna was more than the 380 - but due to budget constraints, there was more sacrifices made on the 380 then the Magna, where the quality and ability of materials to last at least a decade was the obvious sign of cost-cutting.

But the 380 in my books is a bloody great car. One of the best chassis ive driven, and its a bloody shame that there are so many morons who insisted on a Camry instead.

And whilst I never directly insisted that there is 9-years difference between the two models - the 6 updates throughout the 3rd generation allowed for some tweaking to keep up with the times. But you can only update things for so long until you need to start again. Demand for better safety, packaging, design and equipment in a 9 year old car can only last for so long - and thats where its mid 90's origins are evident.

Generally agree in every respect with Mitch's detailed post.

Regarding build quality, I have to disagree though. Things like the airbag cover lifting in one or two cars is not necessarily a widespread problem. It could simply indicate a car which has been parked in the sun every summer. Four of my friends have 380s of varying age, none of which have anything other than a perfectly fitting passenger airbag cover.

The interior fit of the panels in my 380 is much better than the TL - and while both cars have 50k on the clock, the 380 has spent a lot more time in the sun. I think the really rigid and near perfect body of the 380 means the interior panels fit much better. There is no creaking/groaning/clicking from any of the 380s interior panels.

I do agree the window regulators were cheap plastic crap, but they were replaced under warranty on most vehicles with the US equivalent part (which is much more robust).

My TL definitely feels pokier, especially in the mid range, but it does have a better manual box than the 380 which is geared too short. The 380 traction control is not real great in my manual, I expect because it was designed around the auto box (where it is supposedly very, very good).

The ride of the 380 is much better again with the sports suspension pack. The 380 body feels even tighter with the better suspension.

Economy - both are poor around town. Unfortunately that is the reality of a big V6 in a 1500+ kg car.

Looks of the car - drop some lows on the 380 (especially the back which sits way too high), definitely get a spoiler (I prefer the large one, not the lip spoiler), get it tinted and suddenly it's a different car. The base line third gen definitely looks less like a beached whale than the 380 equivalent.

Interior space - the 380 has so much more room in the back seats. Really feels like a large family car. The 3rd gen is adequate, but not the same.

I find the third gen more fun to drive around town/backstreets/through the hills. The 380 is not far behind, but feels bigger. On the highway, it's a different story - the 380 wins hands down for cruising.