Posting from an iPhone in my smoko break - expect errors.

I have this TL GTVi with an odd dash/cluster issue;

The "gear position" lights (P N R D etc) are very, VERY, dim. But only when the headlights are on. The rest of the lights function well, and appear to be at the correct level of "brightness". The dimmer switch does not seem to effect these position indicator lights, but the rest of the lights react to changing the dimmer setting.

When the headlights are not switched on the "P, N, R..." lights are as bright as they should be.

Where do I start looking?

The car is in pretty good nic' so I don't want to go pulling things out unless I absolutely have to.

Is this condition noticeable when it is not dark.
You do know that that the instrument cluster lighting is reduced as soon as sidelights or headlights are turned on.
Gerry

It should reduce overall though, not specifically those lights and to such an extent.

Sounds pretty normal,same thing happened to me when I used to turn my lights on.
But when your lights are on, thight controller/rolling switch has a little bit more to give when you slide it over that last bump at the end of its travel...

This was my fix..
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60404&p=1459885&viewfull=1#post1459885

you can replace the bulbs if you don't like them too dim. You might want to change the colour while you are at it. don't ask me how to do this, and please dont flame me if I am wrong in suggesting it, but it sounds like a pretty good idea to me!

you can replace the bulbs if you don't like them too dim. You might want to change the colour while you are at it. don't ask me how to do this, and please dont flame me if I am wrong in suggesting it, but it sounds like a pretty good idea to me!

OK, we wont flame you, there is no bulbs to replace,unlike tj1 and previous, they are led's, very hard to change, very, very..
The dimmer can be wound all the way up, just as it would be with the lights off.

Okay. Just to clear it up; The instrument lights are perfect - they're bright and the respond to the dimmer switch adjustment. They also "go dim when I hit the headlights.

I can wind up the dimer switch to see the "P, R, N, D..." but winding up the dimmer to max makes the instrument lighting bright enough to burn my retinas at night.

They seem out os sync' with each other - instrument lighting = bright, "P. R, N, D" are super dim.

You CAN see them, with the lights on, but only at night. Cant see them during the day unless the headlights are in the off position.

About to go read SH00T's suggestion...

(This is on a TS, but)
WOW, I just came on here to ask this exact question! I just noticed today that when I turn the headlights on, the P R N D 2 1 Lights go dim, well EXCEPT, the neutral light goes off completely,

Is there some weird way it could have been caused by the rain or thunder since we are both in queensland lol

I upgraded the P R N D and + - lights with T5 leds, and, during the day, no matter what I can't see the brighter lights I put in either.
I thinks it just the light output through the diffuser in the shifter and in an unshaded position, the cluster is blackout and shaded, very easy to see.
I can take a pic of the Tippy leds for you if you like, only at night though, can't see em att all during the day, even when shrowded with my hands.
If I could find a buldb bright enough to see them in the daytime, they would blind you at night, can't win either way.
Its not a problem really, you can where the tippy is in the daylight.....

Okay... not sure I'm skilled enough to hack in T% LEDs into my dash...

Here's a series of pic's to better illustrate whats going on;

http://i.imgur.com/jK04j.jpg

I've not yet met the man with enough skills to hack the LEDS in the TJII -> KW dash, but its easy to up the brightness in the Tippy, As for the Batt,Oil,ABS and CEL lights, there are pretty much fixed....
I've offered Sparky my old cluster, to have a go at, but he's afraid he'll break it, I know the risk, he can have go at it.

Oh, And.....
Dont look for the Tippy lights til night time, you won't see'em...
And I don't think they illuminate til the lights are turned on anyway...

In the first and last Pic, do you reckon the lightoutput is the same, and its just the camera's aperture, I only say that coz the warning lights are brighter in the last picture.

http://i.imgur.com/jK04j.jpg

I've not yet met the man with enough skills to hack the LEDS in the TJII -> KW dash, but its easy to up the brightness in the Tippy, As for the Batt,Oil,ABS and CEL lights, there are pretty much fixed....
I've offered Sparky my old cluster, to have a go at, but he's afraid he'll break it, I know the risk, he can have go at it.

Oh, And.....
Dont look for the Tippy lights til night time, you won't see'em...
And I don't think they illuminate til the lights are turned on anyway...

In the first and last Pic, do you reckon the lightoutput is the same, and its just the camera's aperture, I only say that coz the warning lights are brighter in the last picture.

http://i.imgur.com/jK04j.jpg

Nope. Its not the camera. What you see is what I'm getting.

I'm gonna bow out of this one, I don't think I can Help you Out, hope I haven't wasted any of you time..

Ive got a TW with a rada cluster...
But I ran a few checks for you, just then out in the car.....
If you have different light output form your cluster, You should be able sit in the car, with the dash dimmer at highest, and while flicking the lights on and off, you should see the Speedo lights get brighter and dimmer.
I just tried this and the light output was the same, lights on or off, engine on or off, with the dimmer on full whack.....
I also noted on my TW, that I dont get any Tippy lights at all unless my lights are on....
Only if I had a Rada lol.....

I'm gonna bow out of this one...

Thanks for your help anyway. Every little bit helps.

I've had the car for less than 48 hours, haven't had any real chance to look at it seriously. This cant be normal surely. My Magna has a TJ II dash in it and it doesn't dim out the "P,N, R, D..." like this.

Might have a quick look over the manual, see if I'm not missing anything simple.

I'd be surprised if the TJ illumated the the Tippy when the lights were off.
And I wouldn't be surprised if a verada lit the Tippy at all times.
But I wouldn't be surprised when the lights went on, and the tippy lights did dim with the lights.

Sit in the car in the dark, no lights on, ign on, if the tippy lights are too bright and distracting for nightime, turn on the lights, if they dim, in the dark, and they are confortable to read, all should be well.
Also, sit in the car in the dark, with the ignition on, dimmer fully cranked, and flick the lights on and off, while looking at the cluster, Is there really a difference???
If you answered yes to the last question, check with another Rada owner on the same 2 tests...

It's the way the cluster is unfortunately.

I can barely see the tippy lights in my KL when the lights are on during the day. In the evening, I can see them...but nowhere as bright as if I turned the lights off. My TL has exactly the same issue. In my KJ2 however, this 'dimming' doesn't occur to the same noticeable effect.

All clusters have the same LED setup, just the L/W series seems to have this dimming effect. It's actually a good thing, otherwise you'd never know the lights were on! Perhaps Mitsubishi did this deliberately?

I have a theory.

In the meantime, I just did the same check on my Magna;

http://i.imgur.com/Ey2Ks.jpg

My theory is maybe this bulb (circled) has been swapped out for something that's affecting the circuit these indicator lights run on. Check the diagram... follow it back. Just a theory. There's a receipt in the car showing, among other things, that a "festoon bulb" was replaced. I'm thinking I should find out which one.

Here's that diagram showing the bulb and circuit I'm suspecting might be iffy;

http://i.imgur.com/CmNX6.jpg

It's the way the cluster is unfortunately.

I can barely see the tippy lights in my KL when the lights are on during the day. In the evening, I can see them...but nowhere as bright as if I turned the lights off. My TL has exactly the same issue. In my KJ2 however, this 'dimming' doesn't occur to the same noticeable effect.

All clusters have the same LED setup, just the L/W series seems to have this dimming effect. It's actually a good thing, otherwise you'd never know the lights were on! Perhaps Mitsubishi did this deliberately?

Damn it! I want to SEE that damn green light - DURING THE DAY, WITH my lights ON - in case my neutral light starts flashing.

Fit the Phillips DRL's, you can then drive with all your LED's shining brightly...Inside and out...

I'm pretty certain I can see my TL's tippy-gear indicator during the day with the lights on; will have to take more notice next time I drive to give a definitive answer, whether it's affected by the dimmer, etc. But I do drive with my lights on a reasonable amount (especially longer trips), and pretty certain I see the indicator, 'cause I do refer to it when downshifting to maintain speed going down hills; I'd imagine I would have noticed by now if I couldn't see them.

Skapper, that festoon may be the dome light. I will also check later today to see how mine works and will report back.

It's the way the cluster is unfortunately.

I can barely see the tippy lights in my KL when the lights are on during the day. In the evening, I can see them...but nowhere as bright as if I turned the lights off. My TL has exactly the same issue. In my KJ2 however, this 'dimming' doesn't occur to the same noticeable effect.

All clusters have the same LED setup, just the L/W series seems to have this dimming effect. It's actually a good thing, otherwise you'd never know the lights were on! Perhaps Mitsubishi did this deliberately?
My TL doesn't have this issue at all, I usually drive with the lights on day or night, and I've never had the issue you guys are describing, the gear indicators light up plenty bright enough to be seen in broad daylight. That being said, I don't know if the VR-X cluster is any different, I wouldn't expect Mitsubishi to have changed the whole cluster though for the sake of white dials over black.

My TL doesn't have this issue at all, I usually drive with the lights on day or night, and I've never had the issue you guys are describing, the gear indicators light up plenty bright enough to be seen in broad daylight. That being said, I don't know if the VR-X cluster is any different, I wouldn't expect Mitsubishi to have changed the whole cluster though for the sake of white dials over black.
Yours is not the high-contract Verada cluster.

I'm with Lugo on this one - there's just no logic behind altering the brightness between models like this.

Gotta check that receipt.... flat out here at work.

I'm with Lugo on this one - there's just no logic behind altering the brightness between models like this.

Gotta check that receipt.... flat out here at work.
I doubt the lights behind the cluters are festoon ones. Festoon ones are those you fit into the dome lights and look similar to inline fuses with glass centre and metal end caps.

Yup, i understand what festoons are. But, it was a bulb regardless that's been changed. Worth double checking. In the circuit diagram is appears (to me and my basic understanding) that the bulb illumination the actual selector ("t-bar") is in line with these indicator lights. If somebody has replaced this bulb with one of an incorrect wattage it could affect the "P, N, R, D..." lights.

That's if my limited understanding holds any water.

sounds normal to me

The lights you circled in the diagram are 2 small T5's. At the front of the tippy/gear shift assembly, Under the center console. They twist 90 deg and pull out,
They are easy to check, perhaps someone swapped the out for led's?
My wiring is different to yours, I have no lighting at all in the tippy til I turn on my lights.
No other lights on that circuit can be changed easily, they are tiny board mounted and soldered led's.

Tested it driving home yesterday, I can quite definitely see mine during the day with the lights on, definitely affected by the dimmer, and even on dimmest setting it's quite visible. Doesn't actually help you in any way, but yeah I'm assuming yours should be acting in the same way.
May have a gander at the servce manual later today to see what I can make out.

I think I'm missing something, we now seem to be talking about the actual shifter rather than the cluster?
AFAIK, mine's got no lighting on the tippy side of the shifter, and no gear indicators down there, just a general lighting of the RH side?

My Tl Wagon Seems to Light up as the rest of the dash also.

Skapper, the dot which indicates which gear is selected does go dim as soon as the parkers are on and is not affected by the dimmer switch unlike the rest of the cluster. I guess the car was never designed for the lights to be on during the day time.

Skapper, the dot which indicates which gear is selected does go dim as soon as the parkers are on and is not affected by the dimmer switch unlike the rest of the cluster. I guess the car was never designed for the lights to be on during the day time.

Bummer.

Bummer.

Having said that, I drove with the lights on during the day time for a while and never had difficulty seeing the dot. Try giving the plastic cover a good clean and you may be able to see the dot better. I know it makes a big difference to be able to see the trip computer when the plastic is nice and clean.