I was doing a dig around on old posts, and found this; :roflwtf:

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24852&highlight=turbo

Just wondering, has anyone else tried to do this on their magna?

Also what internals should you replace if you were running mid psi?

Mid PSI meaning what, exactly?
10-15psi?
I'd imagine pistons, rods and springs. Cams?

Yep that's what i meant.
From memory stock 3.5L can handle about 5 or 6 psi, correct?

3.5L up to about 8psi before the pistons are the weakest part, Usually with 9.0:1 comp and no higher though.

This may be a dumb question, but can a stock comp be re-flashed/tuned for a turbo running 6 - 8 psi

This may be a dumb question, but can a stock comp be re-flashed/tuned for a turbo running 6 - 8 psi

I'll answer your questions because i've been down this road.. How you going Tevo, okay a stock engine that's running okay will handle 10psi max tuned to 98octane fuel... , you'll need bigger injectors ,fuel pump and a tune..., your turbo setup will need to have an intercooler of some kind and the exhaust will need to be upgraded to flow better, or a complete replacement.... But the motor can stay the same, you don't need to touch the engine internally at all... You'll get around 300hp@the wheels... Even at 6psi you'll still need to do all of those things... But you can do this all cheaply, turbos are cheap, fuel pumps are cheap, intercooler you can buy for bread money, the ecu will cost around the 900plus mark to buy, unless you can get your ecu reflashed..

If your running 10plus (10+)... Pistons and rods, valve springs ;) are the must, but look over the engine and replace old parts, timing belts, oil pumps etc...

Oh and your auto can handle up to 280hp... But it will need good oil, and a big oil cooler, manuals are good standard up to 500hp

Thanks for all the info :D

FFS it's been proven over and over again on this forum if you go over 6psi on a stock 6G74 it goes bang sooner rather then later.

If your running 10plus (10+)... Pistons and rods, valve springs ;) are the must, but look over the engine and replace old parts, timing belts, oil pumps etc...

Oh and your auto can handle up to 280hp... But it will need good oil, and a big oil cooler, manuals are good standard up to 500hp

Transmissions and gearboxes could handle 1500hp (not sure why we are using hp measurements?) as long as the TORQUE is within acceptable levels.

Also, a stock clutch will not handle forced induction reliably well either. That will need to be upgraded to a beefier item like an off-the-shelf evo clutch

Will turbo'ing a magna sacrifice towing ability?

Transmissions and gearboxes could handle 1500hp (not sure why we are using hp measurements?) as long as the TORQUE is within acceptable levels.

Also, a stock clutch will not handle forced induction reliably well either. That will need to be upgraded to a beefier item like an off-the-shelf evo clutch
Just the way i've always explain things, " you walk into a performance shop and you say i want blar blar blar this mush hp, most people don't understand torque... ;p,

Tevo I can't remmebr my torque figures. I'll have a look tonight, all I know is my auto hated 300hp@the wheels and if I remember ego did have a problem with his manual just over 500 " I think"
We were both running a gt35r Garret turbo if that helps you out more

Will turbo'ing a magna sacrifice towing ability?
Should help it.. ;) more power ;)

The magna manual boxes with an LSD in them are incredibly hardy and no matter how much power/torque you put out your cv joints with break on a regular basis before the box does.
I imagine auto boxes are pretty strong with an lsd in them also but can't comment as i have no experience driving decent power through an auto.

I ran my sprintex setup (6.5psi) on factory on NA spark advance map, i.e no values above 100% load were used (yes i know......) and normal ones below werent modified, fuel map was obviously calibrated to account for boost so it didnt lean out, only for little bit though just to see. Damn it felt amazing, torque was insane, it would rip into 3rd gear & pull like v8 is 5th, fuel economy actually improved vs NA. I did on my old motor since i was getting new one.

But no you cannot run turbo without a tune no matter what boost

I would've figured a standard motor to bake a piston at 8psi+, super or turbocharged.

Suppose if you ran it fairly rich with a tiny turbo and went easy on it you'd be able to run 10psi for a while, but there's no way the standard 6G74 will survive long at all when dealing with 10psi.

Issue really is with 6g74, pistons are just piss weak, they all chip around the crown under boost, even with my 6.5 psi setup its just a metter of time (as other sprintex owners will tell you), good thing is second hand 6g74 is around $400 provided you can put it in yourself. 6g72 pistons on the other hand much tougher.....

Is that true? 6g72 pistons are stronger than the 4's?

Has anybody done this kind of thing with a 6G72?

Perhaps someone can confirm this, issue is not the actual strength, it the design of the piston's top which makes 6g72 stronger

The crown of the piston makes it stronger. BUT you might lose some compression using 72 pistons, this in itself will make a forced induction build more reliable. I cant remember how the capacity increase was achieved on the 74? Was it a wider bore or simply a different stroke?

Would you have to replace the injectors if you were running around 6psi?

Would you have to replace the injectors if you were running around 6psi?

Yes. You want to increase duty overhead to reduce the risk of running lean and cooking the motor

This may be a dumb question, but can a stock comp be re-flashed/tuned for a turbo running 6 - 8 psi
I believe it could be done, as long as you don't need any ancillary control (ie water/methanol injection).

Would you have to replace the injectors if you were running around 6psi?
That would be dependent on the actual duty cycle of the injectors and the ability of the fuel pump - once you hit 100% duty cycle it will run lean. However increasing the fuel pressure (within limits) may be one way of avoiding having to find bigger injectors...

Injector duty cycle can be monitored with tools like Evoscan.

BTW I think I've seen reference to NA builds of around 225kW (at the fly) using stock injectors, but probably not with the stock fuel pump.

So im looking for a T28 size turbo.
Sorry for the fleabay link, but would something like this (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GT2871-TURBO-CHARGER-T25-T28-FLANGE-SILVIA-180SX-200SX-SR20-CA18-/260988625552?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cc4226290) be okay?

What about all the pipe work? Do most people just make there own or buy it from rpw or something?

Thanks for all the posts so far! :woot:

Yep WytWun is correct, the fuel pump runs out before the injectors. Pumps between 180-200 kws, the injectors are at 100% at 220-225 kws with a 12.8 A/F. These are at the wheels on a chassis dyno.
We fitted a evo fuel pump which is a easy swap to fix the fuel pump problem.

Cheers Dave

Firstly you do realize the most basic twin turbo setup will set you back about 12k.

Not wanting twin turbo, just linked that for size

How much do you plan on spending?

Tbh you are dreaming if you think a t28 will flow enough to keep a 6g motor happy. You might get away with it on a 3 litre, but it will be a waste of time unless you have the money and the determination to do a proper build...

How much do you plan on spending?

Tbh you are dreaming if you think a t28 will flow enough to keep a 6g motor happy. You might get away with it on a 3 litre, but it will be a waste of time unless you have the money and the determination to do a proper build...

100% right Ben

Ah sorry, was spose to link a t35

Don't buy an ebay turbo.

You could grab a GT3540 off a BA XR6T for cheap enough if you wanted (lag until 3500-4000rpm, and then you get a broken neck). Or the bigger turbo from an RB26/2JZ.

Guys regardless twin or single, cost is not that much diffrent, with twin you can buy rpw kit which will save lots of time, single however will require fully custom setup, roughly about 7-8k with intercooler & piping, you still will need a tune (regardless if you are using factory ECU or not) which for a turbo setup will cost 1 to 1.5k+, injectors $800, fuel pump.

Really there is no such thing as cheap turbo, its simply impossible to have functional & safe turbo setup for under 10k.

its simply impossible to have functional & safe turbo setup for under 10k.
...Why?

How hard would it be to run the turbo off the Y-Pipe and still have it drain oil? Do you have to run it off each bank above the pan?

Surely the only real expense are the manifolds, and you can damn sure get some custom made for less than $5k.

If only turbo setup required just manifolds, what about intercooler piping, intercooler, and other crap like injectors, tune,ecu (even if you use your factory, still ain't gona be cheap).

I've looked at all options, even running turbo of a single bank, the only option involving a turbo under 10k was doing remote mounted turbo, however such setup would be very laggy. I didn't have spare 10k so I went with supercharged setup.

Don't buy an ebay turbo.

You could grab a GT3540 off a BA XR6T for cheap enough if you wanted (lag until 3500-4000rpm, and then you get a broken neck). Or the bigger turbo from an RB26/2JZ.

Yum cha turbos arent bad unless you run them hard to the limit, Maxxed out boost etc.
When a massive one is used and it's only working/flowing like 70ish% of it's capacity at full boost on a certain application, then it will work *okay*. Journal bearings, average housings and average seals/balance make them shithouse when pushed to their limits.

Turbo without a tune is also a pipedream, but that's a whole kettle of fish. If you risk blowing up motor from bumping up the compression one point without a retune, why skimp out when pushing 6psi in?

The old turbo debate here we go again. You can do a turbo set up for way way under 10k if you can do alot of the the work yourself , infact my twin turbo set up so far has cost me less than any supercharger setup out there at the moment. If you want to know the details of my set up you can pm me i am not getting into any debates on here about what you can and can't do and for how much.

The old turbo debate here we go again. You can do a turbo set up for way way under 10k if you can do alot of the the work yourself , infact my twin turbo set up so far has cost me less than any supercharger setup out there at the moment. If you want to know the details of my set up you can pm me i am not getting into any debates on here about what you can and can't do and for how much.

But will it be reliable? I assume your build isnt yet finished so there is a possibility that you may get an issue...

Im not hating, im genuinely curious as to how cheap it could be to RELIABLY turbo these engines

I believe crackajr when he says it's doable for less than $10k, even $5k, IF you can make everything yourself. I think the single most expensive part would be an aftermarket ECU with a tune.

Everything else is relatively cheap. S14 turbos go for a couple of hundred these days (need two), steampipe (if you make a log style manifold) and flanges are cheap if you know the right people.

What's next, oil/water lines and cooler, some sort of boost control and then all the piping to connect them all together? All of that is doable if you have access to mig/tig welders, materials and plenty of time.

Everybody else who doesn't have access to the above has to pay to play.

Whats reliability got to do with it you could spend 20k and still not have reliability . Its whatever limit you want to push it too. Most have issues when they want to start playing with their set ups more boost etc. Its no different to factory turbo cars like skylines etc soon as you wind up the boost you start having reliability issues.So if your willing to stay within a reasonable limit to the engine you will be fine. AS ben says biggest expence is the ecu and tuning.Yes i have made the manifolds myself only because i got dicked around by RPW but even if i had to pay for manifolds it would still be well under 5k thats tuning and everything. I am later on after i have run the set up for a while going to build and engine to take more boost.

Well as far as i can tell the biggest expense would be the ECU and pistons. Turbos are cheap as chips if you find the right ones (T28s off an S14/S15 or RB20/25 turbos work well. T25s should work if you want to cheap out), if you know anyone who can make you up the manifolds that's cheap as well. Intercooler piping is piss easy to do and anyone can make up some oil drain lines and drill a hole into a pan.
A turbo or even twin turbo setup should definitely be cheaper than the superchargers. What are they, $6k for a kit?

Could you modify 6G72T manifolds?

Another thing to consider is long term reliability. What do you do if the supercharger dies in 60,000kms, fork out $3k+ for another?
If both turbos somehow died within 60,000kms (Running at 10psi? Not likely), 2x more T28s would run you $500.

I just can't see where it would cost $10k, or even more than a good supercharger setup.

This is not your normal sports car its a magna! I got quoted 4.5k to do custom twin turbo manifolds to suit td04 turbos, same as evo4, if some how you can do manifolds yourself then yes by all means you will get it way under 10k. Also buying cheap chinese turbo is simply too expensive, I found it out the hard way with my gto, when I had to pay labour of 600 to replace rear turbo because seals blew only after a week. Genuine mhi will set you back about 900 each. Then I got quoted 7k for single turbo setup, including turbo, intercooler and piping.

Using gto manifolds will require fair bit of work aswell. I've looked into that well since I had spare ones lying around, they will not line up and will require flanges rewelded, not to mention turbo are too small (tiny), for instance stock gto will only put out 165 at the wheels with those at 12psi.

I would've figured a standard motor to bake a piston at 8psi+, super or turbocharged.

Suppose if you ran it fairly rich with a tiny turbo and went easy on it you'd be able to run 10psi for a while, but there's no way the standard 6G74 will survive long at all when dealing with 10psi.
Sorry I disagree, I didn't have a problem when I was running 98ron fuel with a good tune

Not wanting twin turbo, just linked that for size
Well this thread has gone off... Lolz twin t28 are good, and cheap.. You can save money by cutting the flange of the standard magna manifolds and welding t2 flanges on... That's about 100bucks. That's your manifolds done... Intercooler 100bucks, turbos that's are second hand 500bucks, dump pipes and exhaust 1000bucks, piping 500bucks etc... Etc you can do most of it yoursself.. Cut pipes and get it setup so you can join it by a welder.

Why do I bother, people you are right you can get fully sick turbo for under 3k.I was wrong

Your pushing more air in.
You need to put more fuel in as well
Tuning the ecu lets it compensate for the excess air now that its at pressure, not atmospheric. $$$
Upgrading the fuel pump and injectors so that they can deliver the amount of fuel the ecu asks them to without leaning out. $$$
Custom made exhaust manifolds to connect the turbo, or a rear mount setup if you don't mind lag. $$$
Piping the turbo to an intercooler if you wish to keep temps down a bit, and then to the manifold. $$$

You've got this far, now that air is being pushed in instead of sucked in, the camshafts aren't optimised for boost. $$$
re-tune for the different cams. $$$
Since there is so much extra heat and pressure on the inside of the engine, you might want custom pistons made of a stronger material with a top designed to handle the boost. $$$
engineering certificate if you want it legal $$$
then insurance $$$ to cover you if you have an accident and it hurts someone else ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)

You can install a turbo for cheap, but it will probably be unreliable and not much extra power, and use a lot more fuel. A cheap turbo is still not very cheap.

Just slap nitrous on.. 100hp shot, single fogger wet system for 500bucks called "sniper kit" from nos, don't have to upgrade your fuel system, don't have to retune your car..., and you'll beat most things on the road, and the best part you can take it of anytime you want

Many this would be a better way of going, there nothing wrong with nitrous... And a wet system is perfectly safe if the fuel jet and nitrous jet are correct

Why do I bother, people you are right you can get fully sick turbo for under 3k.I was wrong
Dont get upset mate, we all know you can't turbo a v6magna for under 3grand, otherwise every one would do it... Cheapest is probably 4+, and that's cutting a lot of corners.. Like using the standard manifolds and just welding t2 flanges on it.. Instead of paying 1700bucks just for a manifold.. Like I did, :):nuts:

Chuck on a bolt on supercharger. If you have a high flow exhaust then you can get a supercharger kit for $4850. A whole new can of worms I know. But it is simple, reliable forced induction for comparitively little money.

So from all your posts, it seems you 'could' boost a stock 6G74, to output around 200kw atw, only having to upgrade the fuel pump and zorst?

Yeah but without a forged engine it will never be super stable.

It's a fine balancing act. You could bolt on a supercharger or a turbo for comparitively little money. The more you spend on your setup, the better and more stable it will be. The more you can squeeze out. You need a level of stability and reliability in there. You need to spend the money.

So from all your posts, it seems you 'could' boost a stock 6G74, to output around 200kw atw, only having to upgrade the fuel pump and zorst?
Fuel pump and injectors, The ecu will need a tune..., ;) but yeah, most engine will handle boost standard, just not a lot of boost.. The 6G74 Max can take 10psi, safe would be around 6-7 ! I slumped 15psi and cracked a piston, second run on the dyno.... ! So it was a epic fail lolz

Go on my thread for loud1 it has all the info you need... My ups and downs with the build