So Ive been looking at getting a Berklee Muffler for a few weeks and finally decided today Id get a muffler put on my car. Went to an Exhaust Shop and the guy told me that Berklee's were crap, needs replacing after 2 years and stuff. He then pushed the brand he stocks, Zetti.

After having my mind set on getting a Berklee I was persuaded to get a Zetii(rookie I know). Cost me $229. $118 for the muffler, $45 labour odd and $66 for the tip. Took the guy half an hour to put on. Easy as. Overall happy with the sound of it, great roar under acceleration and not toooo much drone.

Thought I would mention it just because everyone seems to just pick the Berklee because everyone else gets it(same reason I was originally going to get it) :)

People that follow the crowd are uneducated.

lol I have Supercats but no one listens to me :P

I've never heard of that brand, but there's probably lots of brands I haven't heard of. I agree I got my Berklee because it was recommended by another member who also got one (same shop too). I trusted his opinion and didn't want to waste time and money on other droney mufflers. Though I was disappointed with the Berklee's lack of real noise at the start, it did improve after about a year, and now has a very nice deep note.
As for needing to be replaced after 2 years, mine's 4.5 years old and going fine. It cost me just $140 back then, so great value for money. It would obviously cost more now though.

I still don't understand how you can have a 'droney muffler' Grubco, drone is created from your exhaust being to loud at a certain rpm, usually a problem in automatic cars as the revs sit lower at cruising speeds and it can be improved by installing centre mufflers to reduce noise/drone.

So Ive been looking at getting a Berklee Muffler for a few weeks and finally decided today Id get a muffler put on my car. Went to an Exhaust Shop and the guy told me that Berklee's were crap, needs replacing after 2 years and stuff. He then pushed the brand he stocks, Zetti.

After having my mind set on getting a Berklee I was persuaded to get a Zetii(rookie I know). Cost me $229. $118 for the muffler, $45 labour odd and $66 for the tip. Took the guy half an hour to put on. Easy as. Overall happy with the sound of it, great roar under acceleration and not toooo much drone.

Thought I would mention it just because everyone seems to just pick the Berklee because everyone else gets it(same reason I was originally going to get it) :)

Betcha get sick of the drone after a couple of months!

I find that any drone at all is toooo much for me, that's why I'm still chasing a completely drone free set up. Tougher ask with RPW extractors & dual exhausts, but I'm booked in with my exhaust guy this Tuesday, will be fitting a Magnaflow 14416 central muffler (thanks Stormie!), cost a whopping $97 delivered from the US of A to my door through Amazon, delivered within three days of ordering!

So if your Zetti gets too droney for your liking (and as I said I betcha it will), instead of swapping it for a Berklee BS0665, maybe think about fitting the Magnaflow 14416 as well.

I'll let you know how I go with mine.

KJ.

Haha we shall see. Def's let me know how you go though. Plus I normally have my music up loud so I wont take much notice of Drone. :)

...... like I said, no one listens to me :P .... I have NO drone .....

...... like I said, no one listens to me :P .... I have NO drone .....

Just plenty of whinning from your supercharger :p

I heard my car driving the other day whilst it was on a road test at Mitsu, sounded awesome with the Berklee

lol I have Supercats but no one listens to me :P

I'm not going to lie, I swear Fooz works for supercat haha

People that follow the crowd are uneducated.

Silly comment. People follow the crowd because the crowd educates them. That's what I did anyway. I got the Berklee because it was more highly recommended than any other muffler and for a price of $149 installed, I wasn't exactly going to be hugely out of pocket if I wasn't happy with it.

I had a Zetti cannon on a import '90 Corona EXIV hardtop I had, back in 2004. It was terribly overpriced back then, but I was pretty happy with the quality, albeit a bit buzzy in the upper RPM range, and the drone was minimal and bearable.

Silly comment. People follow the crowd because the crowd educates them. That's what I did anyway. I got the Berklee because it was more highly recommended than any other muffler and for a price of $149 installed, I wasn't exactly going to be hugely out of pocket if I wasn't happy with it.

I was under the influence of frustration when writing this.

lol I have Supercats but no one listens to me :P

Haha i have varexs noone listens to me either :P


Betcha get sick of the drone after a couple of months!

I find that any drone at all is toooo much for me, that's why I'm still chasing a completely drone free set up. Tougher ask with RPW extractors & dual exhausts, but I'm booked in with my exhaust guy this Tuesday, will be fitting a Magnaflow 14416 central muffler (thanks Stormie!), cost a whopping $97 delivered from the US of A to my door through Amazon, delivered within three days of ordering!

So if your Zetti gets too droney for your liking (and as I said I betcha it will), instead of swapping it for a Berklee BS0665, maybe think about fitting the Magnaflow 14416 as well.

I'll let you know how I go with mine.

KJ.

Jeez KJ put the pressure on! sure hope its the magical problem fix for you that it was for me. (see Woobs recent comments regarding my exhaust set up now :P )

I have a stock muffler no drone AMAZINGLY
Cost nothing as it came with the car there are plenty of others like me so I must be a sheep and uneducated.

Tree I hope the magnaflow works for you.

Whuuuu wish I hadn't read this lol! Now I don't know whether to get the Berklee or this Magnaflow... :S

I'd go the Magnaflow - I had a Magnaflow rear muffler installed on my Magna recently. I love it - it has a really deep note. Much deeper than most other Magnas I've heard. They do cost more though.

Whuuuu wish I hadn't read this lol! Now I don't know whether to get the Berklee or this Magnaflow... :S

Concentrate on size and shape, not brand.

Whuuuu wish I hadn't read this lol! Now I don't know whether to get the Berklee or this Magnaflow... :S

the magnaflow Kj and I are talking about is not a rear of the car muffler like the berkley, rather its a cylindrical job that we fit in the tunnel in addition to the muffler at the back of the car to combat the sound that comes with the extractors fitted.

I have two little D shaped (fits to the contour of the tunnel) straight through mufflers which quieltened mine right down. They're only small & have a very slight dog leg in them & are custom made by a place here in Brisbane. Rob Bliss Mufflers suggested & fitted them for me.

I have two little D shaped (fits to the contour of the tunnel) straight through mufflers which quieltened mine right down. They're only small & have a very slight dog leg in them & are custom made by a place here in Brisbane. Rob Bliss Mufflers suggested & fitted them for me.

Now the cats out of the bag!
You've been telling us for ages how good your Supercats are and how they are drone free, and letting us believe it was all down to them, and keeping very quiet about these extra central mufflers! (a couple of weak puns in there for good measure).
I used to have a pair of central small straight through mufflers too, they did a reasonable job of cutting down the drone but still didn't completely eliminate it. I swapped them out for a big long single central muffler a few months ago, and if anything the drone got a little worse.
I now have almost no pipe left in my system before it splits into two, it's all cat & O2 sensors & muffler & resonator. I'm getting the resonator replaced with the Magnaflow central muffer, see how it goes. I'd like to keep the resonator in the system as well but no room left for it.

Now the cats out of the bag!
You've been telling us for ages how good your Supercats are and how they are drone free, and letting us believe it was all down to them, and keeping very quiet about these extra central mufflers! (a couple of weak puns in there for good measure).
I used to have a pair of central small straight through mufflers too, they did a reasonable job of cutting down the drone but still didn't completely eliminate it. I swapped them out for a big long single central muffler a few months ago, and if anything the drone got a little worse.
I now have almost no pipe left in my system before it splits into two, it's all cat & O2 sensors & muffler & resonator. I'm getting the resonator replaced with the Magnaflow central muffer, see how it goes. I'd like to keep the resonator in the system as well but no room left for it.

Ha, before that I just had a resonator with the Supercats. There was no drone it was just to loud for my liking that's why I put these little D mufflers in. I started with one which was ok until everything carboned up then I decided to put another one in.

With the Supercharger the gas flow is a lot higher which equals more noise.

Betcha get sick of the drone after a couple of months!

I find that any drone at all is toooo much for me, that's why I'm still chasing a completely drone free set up. Tougher ask with RPW extractors & dual exhausts, but I'm booked in with my exhaust guy this Tuesday, will be fitting a Magnaflow 14416 central muffler (thanks Stormie!), cost a whopping $97 delivered from the US of A to my door through Amazon, delivered within three days of ordering!

So if your Zetti gets too droney for your liking (and as I said I betcha it will), instead of swapping it for a Berklee BS0665, maybe think about fitting the Magnaflow 14416 as well.

I'll let you know how I go with mine.

KJ.

Swapped out the 'gonzo' spiral resonator with the Magnaflow 14416 this evening, bottom line was it didn't work (sorry Stormie!).
Still an annoying drone at 2500 rpm, if anything a bit louder than before, and the harshness/vibration at 1900 rpm is back again. Not as bad as before but it's baaaaack.
Only good thing is the overall exhaust note is now a bit deeper.

Back again in a week's time, this time to rip out the 1.2 metre long Lukey central muffler and replace it with two spiral resonators, my old one and a new one, but leave the Magnaflow 14416 in place.

KJ.

lol ..... no one listens :P

So what have you got now? Twins? What size pipes?

I have a stock muffler no drone AMAZINGLY
Cost nothing as it came with the car there are plenty of others like me so I must be a sheep and uneducated.


Hear Hear ( well no pun intended ) mine standard also and no drone!

lol ..... no one listens :P

So what have you got now? Twins? What size pipes?

Fooz,

I've had twins for yonks now, over two years.

2.5" pipe (what little is left of it!) splitting into 2 x 2" pipes via a Y join just aft of the fuel tank.

Then into two stock mufflers (as of a few months ago).

Theory is that the twin 'tri-flow' stock mufflers should be at least as good at mimimising drone as the three different types of twin straight through mufflers I have tried so far.

But not so far. The twin stockers are no better than two of the set ups I have tried using reasonably large straight through mufflers. The smaller Berklee Pex I tried first time were hopeless.

You never know, if all else fails, I might try twin Supercats! And damn the expense.

Starting to get a bit off topic from the OP's post about a Zetti rear muffler!

I'm very surprised your have drone with stock (not straight through) mufflers & only 2" pipe!! My Supercats are 2 1/4" straight through & no drone with the auto which should be worse than a manual. I did have to put those D mufflers in but just to bring the noise level down though.

Are you sure it is drone & just not excessive volume you aren't liking? ..... although stocko mufflers should be pretty quiet :nuts:

If you want to try my setup I can ring the muffler shop & find out about these D mufflers etc for you ..... too bad you so far away otherwise you could come for a drive & see what you think ....

Hear Hear ( well no pun intended ) mine standard also and no drone!

Terry (and Warren),

You have both missed the point of the last few posts.

Fooz and I and a few others have gone the route of extractors and dual exhausts, chasing increased power, torque, throttle response and general 'driveability'.

Because the stock exhaust system is strangled mainly by the two 'pre-cats' and a little by the stock rear muffler.

Once you go that route it's not easy or cheap to end up with a nice drone free exhaust.

If you want a little bit of extra power & torque and a more sporty exhaust note, without drone, for not many $, then swap out the rear muffler for a Berklee BS0655, but leave the rest of the exhaust stock.

KJ.

Terry (and Warren),

You have both missed the point of the last few posts.

Fooz and I and a few others have gone the route of extractors and dual exhausts, chasing increased power, torque, throttle response and general 'driveability'.

Because the stock exhaust system is strangled mainly by the two 'pre-cats' and a little by the stock rear muffler.

Once you go that route it's not easy or cheap to end up with a nice drone free exhaust.

If you want a little bit of extra power & torque and a more sporty exhaust note, without drone, for not many $, then swap out the rear muffler for a Berklee BS0655, but leave the rest of the exhaust stock.

KJ.

Thanks KJ. I do understand but was being a little "tongue in cheek"

Does removal of the two pre-cats prevent car meeting ADR emission requirements?

If not why are they there in the beginning?

Terry

Thanks KJ. I do understand but was being a little "tongue in cheek"

Does removal of the two pre-cats prevent car meeting ADR emission requirements?

If not why are they there in the beginning?





Terry

Terry,

Yes, removing the pre-cats and not replacing them with at least a Euro 3 compliant cat means you won't meet ADRs for emissions. The remaining third cat in the system is a dummy, a "white brick" that does SFA. So I and others who have fitted extractors have replaced it with a real cat. Most have gone with a 200 CPI hi-flow cat, I did too to start with (ironically, in view of this thread name, it was a Zetti cat!). But in yet another one of my attempts to eliminate the dreaded drone I replaced that cat with a big 350 CPI Magnaflow cat a few weeks ago. Made no difference to the drone though, and I didn't detect any loss of performance either.
I've been told that the reason MMAL fitted a dummy 3rd cat is they found the two pre-cats were enough to meet Euro 3 emissions standards by themselves, but by that time it was too late to redesign & retune the exhaust system without a lot of expense, so they just left it as it was and saved a few quid by sticking a dummy 3rd cat in instead of a real one.

KJ.

Out of interest where did the idea that the third cat had no function come from. Ive been told that the 380 utilises the 2 stage catalytic process in the 2 locations first stage being in the precats, with the second being in the 3rd cat.
was told this was due to the material in the cats having different tolerances to heat. both catalysts only work when warm but the one in the second cat degrades when exposed to too much heat.so putting the precats close to the engine warms them up faster while the perfomance of the second stage is sacrificed for longevity.
Again is only what Ive been told but kinda stacks up when you look at sites such as http://auto.howstuffworks.com/catalytic-converter.htm (in particular page three of the article)

Out of interest where did the idea that the third cat had no function come from. Ive been told that the 380 utilises the 2 stage catalytic process in the 2 locations first stage being in the precats, with the second being in the 3rd cat.
was told this was due to the material in the cats having different tolerances to heat. both catalysts only work when warm but the one in the second cat degrades when exposed to too much heat.so putting the precats close to the engine warms them up faster while the perfomance of the second stage is sacrificed for longevity.
Again is only what Ive been told but kinda stacks up when you look at sites such as http://auto.howstuffworks.com/catalytic-converter.htm (in particular page three of the article)

Stormie,

I've only repeated what I've been told. I can't be sure who told me, but I think it was either or both of Jason VRX and Dave TJ (both worked at MMAL).

It would be good to get a definitive answer one way or the other.

KJ.

I have read that on here too & think it was Dave TJ that posted it.

One way to find out, who got one laying around? Have a look down the middle ....

I don't get why you would build a car with a 3rd cat if it wasn't needed.... Especially when Mitsubishi au were cost cutting.

I don't get why you would build a car with a 3rd cat if it wasn't needed.... Especially when Mitsubishi au were cost cutting.

Probably mandated by EPA and federal govt to bring all new cars inline with EURO emissions targets

Swapped out the 'gonzo' spiral resonator with the Magnaflow 14416 this evening, bottom line was it didn't work (sorry Stormie!).
Still an annoying drone at 2500 rpm, if anything a bit louder than before, and the harshness/vibration at 1900 rpm is back again. Not as bad as before but it's baaaaack.
Only good thing is the overall exhaust note is now a bit deeper.

Back again in a week's time, this time to rip out the 1.2 metre long Lukey central muffler and replace it with two spiral resonators, my old one and a new one, but leave the Magnaflow 14416 in place.

KJ.

At last!

The dreaded drone has been banished to the rubbish bin of history!

Two "gonzo" spiral resonators, one 12" one 15" followed by a Magnaflow 14416 central muffler. That's all that will fit in the system, two 15" gonzos is too tight a squeeze.

So Stormie the Magnaflow wasn't a flop after all.

Still a nice burble at idle and a deep & satisfying note under WOT, but no more drone anywhere.

I'll do some more research on these "gonzo" spiral resonators and post up what I find.

My exhaust guy swears by 'em, he's even fitted a pair to a 10 second Torana GTR (with worked & blown Holden 308) drag car to tone down it's sound.

KJ.

That's good news finally. Any chance of under-car hoist photos?

Update on Gonzo mufflers.

Seems they are a small Qld outfit called "Gonzo's Racing Pipes".

Struggling to find anything on the interwebz for them, this is the best I could do:

http://www.gonzomufflers.8k.com/

Couldn't find anywhere which sells or stocks the Gonzo spiral mufflers I now have.

Nearest I could find is Moroso "spiral flow" racing mufflers, in the good ol' US of A, see here:

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=35054

(scroll down to the second half of the page).

The schematic on that page is how my Gonzo mufflers look.

KJ.

That's good news finally. Any chance of under-car hoist photos?

David,

Not hoist shots, sorry, just from the driver's side of the car jacked up a bit.

Can't fit the whole lot in one snap, so six separate snaps, but you should be able to see it goes from Magnaflow cat into 12" Gonzo into 15" Gonzo (the two Gonzos are welded together with no gap or pipe between them) into Magnaflow central muffler.

After that, but out of shot, the central pipe branches into two via a Y join, then into a stock 380 muffler on each side.

KJ.


http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af28/kj380/IMG_0279.jpg
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af28/kj380/IMG_0280.jpg
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af28/kj380/IMG_0281.jpg
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af28/kj380/IMG_0282.jpg
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af28/kj380/IMG_0283.jpg
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af28/kj380/IMG_0284.jpg

huh what did you say?? lol
lol I have Supercats but no one listens to me :P

I have a stock muffler no drone AMAZINGLY
Cost nothing as it came with the car there are plenty of others like me so I must be a sheep and uneducated.

Tree I hope the magnaflow works for you.

same goes for me...

My powerflow has been awesome. And its completely stainless steel=much longer life span. Winner winner chicken dinner

David,

Not hoist shots, sorry, just from the driver's side of the car jacked up a bit.

Can't fit the whole lot in one snap, so six separate snaps, but you should be able to see it goes from Magnaflow cat into 12" Gonzo into 15" Gonzo (the two Gonzos are welded together with no gap or pipe between them) into Magnaflow central muffler.

After that, but out of shot, the central pipe branches into two via a Y join, then into a stock 380 muffler on each side.

KJ.


http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af28/kj380/IMG_0279.jpg
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af28/kj380/IMG_0280.jpg
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af28/kj380/IMG_0281.jpg
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af28/kj380/IMG_0282.jpg
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af28/kj380/IMG_0283.jpg
http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af28/kj380/IMG_0284.jpg

I looked up the Gonzo's and found this internal structure pic:
http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/71094050.jpg

and it reminded me of this item i saw on Ebay (they come in 12 inch and 15 inch versions, in stainless and mild steel, with different diameters also):
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tornado-Resonator-Hot-Dog-15-long-x-3-in-out-HIGH-FLOW-Mild-Steel-NEW-/260917500614?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cbfe51ac6

Looking at the internal structure pic, it looks like it utilises the same principle. I don't know how good they are, I do not have them myself. It looks like you can get them in a resonator or muffler (twin design), so I guess you can combine them together.

Going by the internal structure pics of the Gonzo's and the one I linked, it looks like if you want to put more than one in a row you would want to make sure the second in line is around the right way, otherwise you will stuff the flow up (first one spins clockwise, the second one anti-clockwise for example). You would want to make sure they are all set up to spin the same way... I guess TreeAdeyMan with the Gondo's made sure they were all the correct way?!

Cause I am awesome


380 exhaust manifolds are stainless steel clam shell design ( 2 halves, upper and lower welded together with flange plates), then the cat is welded to it. The 3rd cat isn't a cat as previously noted it's there only to keep thhe exhauust back pressure the same as when the cat was fitted. It was found late in development that it wasn't needed but to delete it would have required a full engine remap and Bosch wanted to shaft MMAL for that so MMAL went the low cost white brick rout.

Cheers Dave

There it is!

I looked up the Gonzo's and found this internal structure pic:
http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/71094050.jpg

and it reminded me of this item i saw on Ebay (they come in 12 inch and 15 inch versions, in stainless and mild steel, with different diameters also):
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tornado-Resonator-Hot-Dog-15-long-x-3-in-out-HIGH-FLOW-Mild-Steel-NEW-/260917500614?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cbfe51ac6

Looking at the internal structure pic, it looks like it utilises the same principle. I don't know how good they are, I do not have them myself. It looks like you can get them in a resonator or muffler (twin design), so I guess you can combine them together.

Going by the internal structure pics of the Gonzo's and the one I linked, it looks like if you want to put more than one in a row you would want to make sure the second in line is around the right way, otherwise you will stuff the flow up (first one spins clockwise, the second one anti-clockwise for example). You would want to make sure they are all set up to spin the same way... I guess TreeAdeyMan with the Gondo's made sure they were all the correct way?!

I trust my exhaust bloke made sure the Gonzos were both pointing the right way & the same way! It was his idea to fit them and he seemed to know a fair bit about them, so I trust he knew what he was doing. Even then I'm not sure that having them 'spin' the exhaust gasses in different directions would cause a problem.

Car still runs beautifully and goes like stink, so I doubt my Gonzos are interfering with each other.

KJ.

Look very restrictive :/

I tried one of those at one point to quieten my exhaust but didn't make any difference so I got rid of it & my final attempt works well.