Powerchip advances the timing, that about all it does
What more would you want to do to stock car?

I believe the Unichip/Greddy can alter fuel & air mixtures but on a stock car this would be unnecessary right? As it is un-altered from the factory and the factory ecu settings should be spot on? Isnt it only when you start modifying the breathing on the car that you'd need to adjust the fuel & air?

Powerchip advances the timing, that about all it does
What more would you want to do to stock car?
I thought it provided a different fuel map too?


I believe the Unichip/Greddy can alter fuel & air mixtures but on a stock car this would be unnecessary right? As it is un-altered from the factory and the factory ecu settings should be spot on? Isnt it only when you start modifying the breathing on the car that you'd need to adjust the fuel & air?
The factory tune is conservative due to the variences expected with mass production. It's conservative to maintain engine lengevity. So, it's not spot on and will run richer than needed. This is where having the chip tuned to your car can be more economical than the factory tune yet deliver a similar ammout of power / torque. A lot of the power gained is due to the advanced timing but some can be made through the fuel maps.

The other thing is that fuel delivery is also used to help keep the engine cool. This means that if you have a tune in the depth of winter for the most power and the most advanced timing and a fuel ration spot on optimum, this probably means you can expect to ping and knock once you hit late spring / summer.

The main advantage Unichip / e-Manage has over a Powerchip is that they're tuned to the specific nature of your car, not an assumption that every car is the same.

Fair enough

But for a stock standard car the Powerchip is going to get very similar gains, true??

One would assume so and marketing would say so however every car varies a bit so it may not mean so.

Havent you discovered from experience that the Powerchip does nothing at all ??

Dont tell me you are considering replacing your Powerchip with another Powerchip ??

The Unichip gives the tuner the opportunity to set the fuel and ignition maps meaning they can extract more power leading to better and more enjoyable drivability.

I have the Unichip and am very happy with it.

I guess the chip is only as good as its tuner though and i had a good tuner.

Havent you discovered from experience that the Powerchip does nothing at all ??

Dont tell me you are considering replacing your Powerchip with another Powerchip ??
I think they sent him a replacement stating that it wasn't right but he still doesn't feel any different. I think he should get it dyno tested again at their expence.


I guess the chip is only as good as its tuner though and i had a good tuner.
Amen.

My Powerchip had an incorrect map on it apparently. Pomejo has Dyno sheets to prove a 8kw atw gain. Ive gota play Powerchips game before ive got any chance of getting money back


PLUS.. My car is stock, why would i want to alter the fuel maps that Mitsu has spent so much money of getting right with the car. Fair enough if ive done any breathing mods, then yes id want to alter the fuel maps. Anyway, ill see what happens. If i get 8kw atw improvment, ill leave it be, if not, ill demand a refund, simple as that....

PLUS.. My car is stock, why would i want to alter the fuel maps that Mitsu has spent so much money of getting right with the car. Fair enough if ive done any breathing mods, then yes id want to alter the fuel maps. Anyway, ill see what happens. If i get 8kw atw improvment, ill leave it be, if not, ill demand a refund, simple as that....
That's the thing. Your idea of optimal is different to their idea of optimal and different to say Booya's idea of optimal.

If you tuned the map to the car to not run as rich as it does already, you might gain a very small amount of power but could increase economy by say 50km to the tank.

Your idea of optimal is that they must have the map right for the car.

Their idea of optimal would be to act as insurance against the engine overheating or running poorly.

Booya's idea of optimal would be peak power / torque and running on the edge of a safe tune.

My idea of optimal would be somewhere between Booya and factory.

There's another aspect to the factory tune settings, being emissions.

Anyway.. I'm not sure how granular the powerchip is either. Chances are the unichip not only offers the flexibility of being re-tuned to suit later mods but it also provides a finer degree of customisation.

That is - the powerchip might specify fuel quantities and timing adjustments every 1000rpm and interpolate everything in-between those static points with some kind of curve of best fit, but the unichip might have a setting every 500rpm which means it'll end up being more accurate which is safer and probably more powerful. (note: I don't know the stats on either)

My understanding is that the greddy e-manage, with the injection and ignition harnesses offers a very high level of granularity for some precise tuning.. which is one of the reasons it costs more than the unichip.

Gremlin, the maggies have factory "flat spots" so altering the fuel and air mixture would be of benefit to even a stock car :)

Gremlin, the maggies have factory "flat spots" so altering the fuel and air mixture would be of benefit to even a stock car :)

Sorry to sound like a utter newb here, but I believe if you dont know, then ask.

Factory Flat Spots ??

What do you mean ?

Sorry to sound like a utter newb here, but I believe if you dont know, then ask.

Factory Flat Spots ??

What do you mean ?

By flat spots, Killbilly means areas in the rev range (usally down low on Magnas) that power seams to be lower or slower to build.

I thought a flat spot was when the engine is not getting enough fuel at some points in the rev range therefore the engine isnt working at its fullest at that point? To fix flat spots you increase fuel at that point.. Thats what i though neway :confused:

Also, i thought a flat spot was VERY noticeable.. ie you put your foot to the floor and the car hesitates (sorta like cuts off) badly at some point. I can't see how a stock car would have a flat spot from the factory if this is that case?!?!?!?! I've never driven a car from the factory that has done anything like that.....

The flat spots aren't "tuned in" they are just there.

I've noticed that it's easier to find them in autos. And you're right it's where they're not getting enough fuel and the car hesitates a little. Hence why adjusting the fuel map would be beneficial to a stock car, or simply using a rising rate fuel presser regulator would fix that too.

gremlin had a pretty good stab at the flat spot. It is possible to simply use a fuel pressure regulator to provide a bit of a bandaid solution to increase fueling and lift those flat spots a bit.

Of course having a Greddy is the ultimiate solution. and at $800 why not?! These things rock. Even better if your's a turbo. :bowrofl:

No offence but i totally disagree with a stock Magna having any flat spots. Sounds like the bigest load of crap eva. Ive never driven a stock Magna that has had a flat spot. My parents have a TJ Exec Auto and ive driven it very VERY hard and it does not have ANY flat spots. Thats bull****, sorry


AND from what ive heard from guys that have done some serious breathing mods, a Rising Rate FPR is not something you need on a stock car at all, not even on a slightly moded car.. You need alot of air passing through to need one.. thats what ive been told...

Oh well I've experienced them in stock maggies

im running a TS magna with no engine mods atm (read: stock) and i definitely do have flat spots way down low on the rev range, which is why i cant launch fast at all, argh!

Foot down on accelerator and my revs very slowly rises until about 2500rpm and then it shoots up. That's in 1st gear as well. Oh and i can play with the throttle and it makes no response, definitely flat there.

Oh well I've experienced them in stock maggies
Agreed. Mine's got at least one. The other thing is that the FPR is aimed at correcting a drop in pressure in the fuel rail while under very hard acceleration, not just because you've got lots of breathing mods. It's a rising rate FPR as opposed to the stocks constant rate FPR. It's not something that happens all the time but can happen. You only need to wind it up a little and it will overcome leaning out under hard acceleration from a standing start.

My car is stock ATM. Would a rising rate FPR benefit me ?

I know my car is a little flat on takeoff, but I assumed that was just a idiosyncrasy of the car/awd system/torque vs. inertia etc.

Is it actually leaning out on full throttle takeoffs ?

Getting hot here.... and if this gets to the stage of "eliminating” remember who to call :D

Now - stock (STD) engine is perhaps only 80-90 % perfect. The manifolds etc are pretty much just raw cast, they all alter a bit. Hence airflows etc are slightly different resulting to slightly different power outputs of course.
So, STD ECU would not calculate the best a/f ratios on whole RPM range - it would only be some kind of average. This is where programmable chips come handy; they provide correct ratio more often and more accurately.
Flat spots - I think KB has been taken bit too literally. Depends on the driver who thinks a small cough is nothing and the other one considers it a flat spot. But, insufficient fill ratios do exist on these and many other STD engines. Some worse, some less worse. Mine jerks bit here and there - and it's not cos the driver is a jerk....
It has been admitted by a V 8 manufacturer that there are up to 10% diff in the final power on std engines due to cast differences. Now, that's a fair bit on our level of power.

i never noticed the flat spots initially until after spending a lot of time with the car, i have both rising rate FPR and greddy piggyback ecu and they dont really fully fix it.
they noticible at lower revs below 3200 due to the engines being narrow V and short stroke, and i think seem like are points where the factory ecu "cycles", like u miss some power while it registers all the data and decides on a fuel and spark pulse.

also its not quite right to say a powerchip just advances timing. it advances it progressively as revs increase so that top end power is not gained at the expense of bottom end power.
to straight up advance timing does not require a chip, just a screwdriver to undo holding screw and turn your dizzy forward in the same direction as the engine turns. a few degrees advance will let it rev better but low end will suffer. :cool:

i never noticed the flat spots initially until after spending a lot of time with the car, i have both rising rate FPR and greddy piggyback ecu and they dont really fully fix it.
they noticible at lower revs below 3200 due to the engines being narrow V and short stroke, and i think seem like are points where the factory ecu "cycles", like u miss some power while it registers all the data and decides on a fuel and spark pulse.

also its not quite right to say a powerchip just advances timing. it advances it progressively as revs increase so that top end power is not gained at the expense of bottom end power.
to straight up advance timing does not require a chip, just a screwdriver to undo holding screw and turn your dizzy forward in the same direction as the engine turns. a few degrees advance will let it rev better but low end will suffer. :cool:

You can't advance the timing like that on a 3rd Gen.. You can do that on a 2nd Gen though. I'm not sure what you mean by "also its not quite right to say a powerchip just advances timing" .. actually yes, thats all it does. The powerchip has two wires that go to the car, thats all there is to it

My auto has flat spots down low *sigh*.

Though my list of future mods should remedy them somewhat when cash flow is a little better. :D