Question about braking in the KW; occassionally when pulling up firmly (but not suddenly) the car will kinda "grab" or jerk to a halt, a couple of quick jerks. Happens just before we come to a stop, otherwise it's very smooth.

At first I thought it was a rough shift to first, but now I'm thinking it's the ABS, although I don't see any warning light on the dash.
Is it typical for the AWD's? The KH does not do this at all. On the KH the ABS only activates if I pull up very suddenly. Maybe it is the downshift?

It's very quick, not every time and doesn't feel bad or anything, but thought I'd ask.

Sounds like the transmission shunting when the revs drop too quickly. I noticed this in mine when i had the auto. It feels like the engine trying to prevent a stall

Mine does it. Mainly when travelling slow like stopping at traffic lights. Sometimes once ive stopped the revs drop lower than normal too then it bounces back up

Mine only has 25000klm and it does it, to me it feels like a sharp down shift to first like you said..

Are you thinking that this might be related at all to your rough shifting into D from P?

I know you say you've changed some engine mounts/ roll stops but I'd be checking the others too.

It certainly won't be anything to do with the trans downshifting as it won't go into first until you stop completely. It'll sit in 3rd until then & will bypass 2nd completely.

Are you thinking that this might be related at all to your rough shifting into D from P?

I know you say you've changed some engine mounts/ roll stops but I'd be checking the others too.

It certainly won't be anything to do with the trans downshifting as it won't go into first until you stop completely. It'll sit in 3rd until then & will bypass 2nd completely.

Normally, yes, but only if the TPS is sending accurate information to the ECU regarding throttle position.

Imagine if you are going up a steep hill, some throttle on but your speed is dropping. The gearbox will shift to second, then first to try to keep the engine speed up as the road speed decreases.

Now imagine your car's TPS telling the ECU you have some throttle on, even though you haven't, during a normal flat road foot off throttle, coasting to a stop. It will do a lurchy downshift to second and first.

My TS used to do the second to first jerky downshift every time while slowing down until I fixed it. Normally, the second gen stays in second while stopped to minimise creep and only shifts to first when you accelerate again. Can't vouch for the third gen's normal behaviour.

(No, I'm not going to tell you how to fix this.)

Normally, yes, but only if the TPS is sending accurate information to the ECU regarding throttle position.

Imagine if you are going up a steep hill, some throttle on but your speed is dropping. The gearbox will shift to second, then first to try to keep the engine speed up as the road speed decreases.

Now imagine your car's TPS telling the ECU you have some throttle on, even though you haven't, during a normal flat road foot off throttle, coasting to a stop. It will do a lurchy downshift to second and first.

My TS used to do the second to first jerky downshift every time while slowing down until I fixed it. Normally, the second gen stays in second while stopped to minimise creep and only shifts to first when you accelerate again. Can't vouch for the third gen's normal behaviour.

(No, I'm not going to tell you how to fix this.)

Please........

This is an AWD that we're talking about here, not a FWD. We're in the AWD section, aren't we?

It will NOT drop into 2nd EVER unless put there by the driver. Don't believe me? Go outside, hop in your AWD & take it for a spin to prove me wrong.

Please........

This is an AWD that we're talking about here, not a FWD. We're in the AWD section, aren't we?

It will NOT drop into 2nd EVER unless put there by the driver. Don't believe me? Go outside, hop in your AWD & take it for a spin to prove me wrong.

Probably correct. I'm suggesting he checks his car's TPS settings as it sounds to me like the car is doing inappropriate downshifts. That is all.

Are you thinking that this might be related at all to your rough shifting into D from P?

I know you say you've changed some engine mounts/ roll stops but I'd be checking the others too.

It certainly won't be anything to do with the trans downshifting as it won't go into first until you stop completely. It'll sit in 3rd until then & will bypass 2nd completely.

There's backlash and a metallic thump sound when it shifts into R from P (mostly when cold). I wasn't thinking that was related to this. Did you mean check the other engine mounts? Replacing the front and rear mounts and the lower control arm bushes seemed to have introduced a shudder problem at take off and did nothing for that backlash or shift quality. (Actually doing the learning procedure seemed to improve the shift significantly, feels pretty good now.)

Turned our that one of the lower control arm bushes wasn't completely tight and tightening it up seems to have reduced the shudder, although its still there. But I think people were saying that the AWD has a bit of shudder normally anyway.

I have put it into tiptronic mode and watched the display as it downshifts when braking. I think from memory it goes into 1st at very low speed, just before full stop. That would be when foot is on the brake pedal, not the accelerator. Maybe i'm wrong, I'll check it tomorrow while in traffic.

Hmm, actually this reminded me of something else. I remember when I first got the car a few months back it would sometimes leap forward quickly when I initially pressed the accelerator. I notice it does that less often now. Either that or I just got used to it. At the time I put it down to being a different feel than the KH. I might watch for that tomorrow as well.

Ok, here's what I noticed this morning on the way in;
when slowing down rapidly to a complete stop it downshifts to 1st at the exact moment the car comes to a halt. I think the lurchy feeling is the downshift at that moment contributing to stopping power pulling the car up. I guess for a brief moment during the shift operation the stopping force is inconsistent while disengaging from 2 and then extra stopping power is applied when engaging 1 giving that lurchy feeling.

When coming to a slow stop it will downshift to 1st prior to actually stopping. I can roll along for an additional 10 or 20 feet before actually stopping. Basically walking pace, which is typical in traffic.

I never saw it downshift to 2nd, always goes from 3 to 1. I notice it hangs onto each gear for a while. For instance it shifted to 4 at about 43 kmh and 3 at about 20kmh which I woulda thought were too low for those gears, but it feels fine.

Shifting up seems to happen at different speeds. I guess it's taking account other factors than just speed. I notice it hangs onto 1st slightly longer than I'd like and gives a little lurch on the up shift sometimes as a result.

Anyhow, can you guys tell me if the behavior I've described is normal or not.

What is the engine rpm doing when you slow down? What rpm does it idle at hot in neutral?
Have you done basic checks, like seeing if the throttle body is clean, TPS adjusted correctly? Gearbox ATF condition, level?

What is the engine rpm doing when you slow down? What rpm does it idle at hot in neutral?
Have you done basic checks, like seeing if the throttle body is clean, TPS adjusted correctly? Gearbox ATF condition, level?
I think it idles somewhere around 800 but seriously, it's kinda difficult to know for sure with that gauge. Its just a guess based on the position of the needle relative to the 1K mark. I don't think the idle feels too high, subjectively.

ATF is good, but why would I do all those checks? Are you saying there's a problem? I started off the thread asking if this jerking on braking was typical and you and alscall were chatting about the TPS and 1st gear downshifting, so I posted my observations about it. After this morning I think it's just the downshift to 1st that causes this minor jerking that I've noticed.
Or are you referring to that thump when moving into R from D?

I guess I can ask them to check the TPS on the next service if you think it's worth it but with the low kms that the cars done I don't expect things to be wrong. For instance in the twelve years/200,000kms I've had the KH I've never had the TPS adjusted.
Of course I don't know the detailed history of this car. If you think it's worth it based on the behavior I've described I can get it checked. It's not a big job is it? Does it take long?

Idle speed is ok.

Is there a problem?

Yes, I think there is. I've never come across a auto box that does hash shifts, especially when slowing down. It should disengage gears without being noticeable as you slow down, then take up drive smoothly when you accelerate again. Usually the harshest an autobox gets, is when you are doing heavy acceleration and you can feel the clutches in the gearbox take up quickly when the box shifts up a gear, you just get a bit of a surge.
Thumping into reverse is a problem too. Shouldn't be doing it.

TPS check. It's quick and simple, takes 5 minutes. Can be done at home with a multimeter. The TPS (throttle position sensor) tells the ECU how much throttle you have on, and the ECU tells the gearbox when and how fast to change.
If the TPS is sending inaccurate information to the ECU, you do get rough and mistimed shifts. The TPS is simply a switch (tells the ECU when the throttle is closed) and a sliding resistance, which tells the ECU how far the throttle is open. If it is not working properly, it would explain both the thumping into reverse and the rough action when slowing down.

The TPS is a mechanical device with moving parts that move whenever the throttle moves, and it can drift out of specifications, or fail altogether.

Basic rule of troubleshooting - check the simple stuff first. Won't cost much to eliminate it as the problem. From personal experience the TPS is very important in determining shift quality.
If it's not the TPS you can start thinking about gearbox sensors, malfunctioning torque converter, failing gearbox etc. lol


ALTERNATIVE: Just ignore all the above, take your car to a Mitsu mechanic, tell him or show him and let him sort it out. Easiest way.

If the TPS could be contributing to this thump into reverse then it's well worth it. What's the procedure?
I have a multimeter so if that's all that's needed I'm keen to try it.