Hi all,

I don't like spending more $ on a car than the cars worth, it just doesn't seem logical, practical or very sane (my mates TJ got written off at $1200 the other day for eg). Or it might just be that I can't afford it - wife would have my balls if I spent $600 on a set of headers :(

I actually enjoy doing things on the cheap though, little mods that make a difference, maybe find a pod filter going cheap on gumtree, extractors off a wreck or whatever.

I was reading through the dyno results and there are plenty of members with around 140kw atw. Has anybody achieved this kind or power cheaply? Maybe it's a fantasy I really don't know.

I've got a completely stock 3.5 TJ, (completing manual conversion as soon as I get over this damn flu) I want to know what other mods will give the best results? I have heard enough about the rear muffler to know it can give 5kw, and they seem readily available from wreckers for around $100. That is a no brainer at say $20 / kw. Is there anything else even remotely close to this as far as $ / kw?

I remember when the 3.5's came out I read an article (can't remember where now) saying that these things had an incredible engine, but were 'detuned'? for the average model - performing well under their potential. I don't know what specifically they were referring to now, but I assume the rear muffler was part of it. Where is the other big potential?

If we were to break it down into exhaust potential and intake potential (pre TB), how much more can be gained in real terms?
Is there 20kw in exhaust and intake combined? Maybe thats ridiculous, I really don't know. Maybe 15?

A 98 tune would not be on my radar unfortunately, I like the idea but wouldn't be cheap initially or long term with the price of 98 octane.

Any other tricks, tips tweaks? Ignition timing? Fuel pressure regulator?

I know this info might be covered previously, distributed amongst 1000's of posts, but I think this might be useful for newer members who might be in a similar boat. Remember I'm thinking on the cheap, avoiding $600 dyno tunes etc if possible.

Please no "It's all been covered, get a turbo" responses.

Lets have it, 20kw cheap! Can do attitudes encouraged :) :)

As everyone will agree, rear muffler is best bang for buck mod!

The exhaust on the magna is already as good enough and you wont notice gains changing it, besides noise.

The intake i wouldnt bother with as pods do nothing just create noise.

There is no such thing as cheap power.....

As everyone will agree, rear muffler is best bang for buck mod!

The exhaust on the magna is already as good enough and you wont notice gains changing it, besides noise.

The intake i wouldnt bother with as pods do nothing just create noise.

There is no such thing as cheap power.....

Ouch -right in the heart!

Thanks anyway mate, I guess a 3.5 is cheap power to start with.

Why do people spend hundreds on extractors and pods if they make no difference? Have they all been had? Maybe they have.

Extractors will make a difference but its hardly cheap. 3.8l conversion is best value power gain.

Ouch -right in the heart!

Thanks anyway mate, I guess a 3.5 is cheap power to start with.

Why do people spend hundreds on extractors and pods if they make no difference? Have they all been had? Maybe they have.

Look up mighty car mods on youtube and look for the episode they put vaeious cars on a dyno and compare intakes on each car. No difference thats noticable.

As for extractors yeh sure, thy might help. But you said in ya first post you didnt want to spend that money? Considering pacemakers are around $650, i would have that that wasnt your idea of cheap?

Extractors will make a difference but its hardly cheap. 3.8l conversion is best value power gain.

Well I was thinking 3.5 mods but I suppose a 3.8 would be nice. Have been keeping an eye on Pickles lately but a smashed up 380 seems like a rare thing.

Definitely one to ponder for the future. Is it legal?


Maybe I should have put it this way, what is the cheapest way to achieve 15 kwatw and how much would it cost?

Look up mighty car mods on youtube and look for the episode they put vaeious cars on a dyno and compare intakes on each car. No difference thats noticable.

As for extractors yeh sure, thy might help. But you said in ya first post you didnt want to spend that money? Considering pacemakers are around $650, i would have that that wasnt your idea of cheap?

Cheap yea, but I crawl a lot of wreckers and at least I'll know what to look out for. If I know that pacemakers give 3 or 4 kw (or whatever) and I find a set for $200 thens the time to buy :)

You can't make power in these engines without spending big.

If I were in your position I would probably focus less on getting power out of the engine and more on getting the power to the ground. Upgrading old suspension components and crap tyres will be a more practical way to spend your money. (Keeps the wife happy too, seeing they're service items) Do the exhaust and manual conversion and you will already have more power than half the members of this forum.

15kw atw will be extractors, rear muffler, tune. Probs $1000-1500. For another 1000 on top of that you can have a 40kw gain and 90Nm torque from the 3.8

You can't make power in these engines without spending big.

If I were in your position I would probably focus less on getting power out of the engine and more on getting the power to the ground. Upgrading old suspension components and crap tyres will be a more practical way to spend your money. (Keeps the wife happy too, seeing they're service items) Do the exhaust and manual conversion and you will already have more power than half the members of this forum.

Man would I love some decent suspension. Was the most satisfying mod to both my previous rides by a long shot, unfortunately not in the budget ATM *sigh*

"service items" laughed out loud at that!

15kw atw will be extractors, rear muffler, tune. Probs $1000-1500. For another 1000 on top of that you can have a 40kw gain and 90Nm torque from the 3.8

OK now we're talking... So if I could (hypothetically) get muffler and headers for $350, second hand in decent nick then I would just need a tune. One of you guys here in SA must know a cheap tuner that can do the job? I remember being quoted $200 15 years ago... am I outa touch?

Yep pretty outbof touch. But you live near skr who can do a 98 octane tune for you for about 500. If you can get decent extractors that cheap grab them. Fuel efficiency and power will be better.

Will definitely keep an eye out for headers. Thinking back, the article I referred to mentioned the headers as being restrictive. I poked my head under there the other day and that rear pipe makes an ugly bend near the Y join - can't be good for flow.

On a side note I noticed you got yourself a ralliart, wanna swap cams for a bit? Change is as good as a holiday? :hmm:

Man would I love some decent suspension. Was the most satisfying mod to both my previous rides by a long shot, unfortunately not in the budget ATM *sigh*
Spending a grand on a Magna's suspension will gain you much better results than spending a grand on engine modifications.

Spending a grand on a Magna's suspension will gain you much better results than spending a grand on engine modifications.

All in good time. First I need a bit more power, then I will have no choice but to get the suspension. This thing was dangerous with a stock auto. Maybe my shocks are particularly worn, I know it was a company car for a huge wheat co-op up north, country k's, but bumpy k's as evidenced by the undercarriage :eek2:

I'm sure you could squeeze 20kw out of it just by dyno tuning it with SKR. You're already in SA so that shouldn't be a difficult task. ~$500 from memory? Better value if you do some other work though to really get the most of a tune.

What Red Valdez is trying to say, is that you'll get more of a performance gain from the suspension than you will from minor engine modifications. Put it this way, if your suspension isn't up to scratch now, more power will only equate to more wheel spin.

What I was trying to say is that you're not happy with the suspension on the car, $1000 worth of suspension modifications will put a bigger grin on your face than $1000 worth of engine modifications.


I was reading through the dyno results and there are plenty of members with around 140kw atw. Has anybody achieved this kind or power cheaply? Maybe it's a fantasy I really don't know.

Those with ~140kw atw have manuals - the automatic transmission suck a fair bit of power. To get there, most members would have extractors, high-flow cat, straight through rear muffler, and a 98 retune (or thereabouts). The problem is that there's no easy next step from here, so getting 140kw out of an auto isn't a simple task.

Like I just identified, those with good retune results have had their cars tuned for 98 too (which you said in your OP that you didn't want). I'm not sure how effective a tune would be if you only had it retuned for 91 or 95. I would have guesstimated that a free-flow muffler, extractors and a 91 retune would probably net you about 10-15kw at the fly - but you'd probably be looking at closer to $2k for this.

I'm sure you could squeeze 20kw out of it just by dyno tuning it with SKR. You're already in SA so that shouldn't be a difficult task. ~$500 from memory? Better value if you do some other work though to really get the most of a tune.

What Red Valdez is trying to say, is that you'll get more of a performance gain from the suspension than you will from minor engine modifications. Put it this way, if your suspension isn't up to scratch now, more power will only equate to more wheel spin.

Interesting... do you know if I went with the 98 tune (SKR?) would I be able to switch over to LPG with no problems? I probably run on LPG 80% of the time anyway and flick to petrol for thrash now and then (that ratio would no doubt change). Is LPG inclined to detonate? Can the ecu recognise the switch and revert to old maps? $25 a kw is exactly what I had in mind. Can anybody else vouch for this kind of result?

As for wheel spin, I would avoid first gear stuff as it's too hard on driveline/clutches and I can't afford it :/ ...and if it's second or third gear, well I can only hope.

Spending a grand on a Magna's suspension will gain you much better results than spending a grand on engine modifications.

What suspension upgrades would you recommened for a grand to get more performance?

King or Dobinson springs, Boge shocks, installation + wheel alignment, and maybe even a strut brace depending on how cheap the labour costs are to install.

do you get much noticeable difference in handling and/or other areas with the strut brace?

do you get much noticeable difference in handling and/or other areas with the strut brace?

very little in comparison with other components but still a slight increase if you drive pretty hard

To the comment on 98 tune giving 20kw, will more likely give 5kw without any other mods. Then again this id skr's dyno so any gain is possible :p

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned a rear sway (anti-roll) bar. It gives much more improvement than a strut brace.
Definitely go a straight thru muffler.
These are the first two mods I would recommend for any-one, other than wheels and good tyres.

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned a rear sway (anti-roll) bar. It gives much more improvement than a strut brace.
Definitely go a straight thru muffler.
These are the first two mods I would recommend for any-one, other than wheels and good tyres.

Have to agree with the rear sway bar (+nolathane bushes), would be well before a front strut brace. Just that strut braces look so cool :/
No expert on Magnas but worked a treat on every other car I've had so I don't see why it would be any different.
I would also caution people on going too low as losing suspension travel can be very detrimental depending on the kind of roads you drive.

Just that strut braces look so cool :/
.

True that! they look awesome!
But yeah I agree, might car mods did an episode on the rear sway bar and the guy said he noticed the difference instantly...

Does anybody have an answer in regards to the comment earlier about tuning a car for 98 petrol but then it being able to run on gas?

Ok... sorry to burst a few bubbles here but it ain't gonna happen cheap.
Suspension upgrade will improve handling but won't increase power as I'm sure we all know.

OP, what is your budget? That would give us a more accurate idea of what mods you can do to achieve your goal, but, if you are looking for a 20kw increase on a budget, it ain't gonna happen.

Best bang for buck going around for third gens is a 3.8 lt conversion as there not a lot of stuffing around a she fits nicely in a third gen. Depending on how much you get the 380 engine, exhaust system & install for, you'll be looking at between 1500 - 3500 all up. That's the best bang for buck.

I'm extremely skeptical of a tune giving you more than 5kw on stock internals, exhaust etc...no matter who is doing it.

The manual conversion is a great modification to get more accessible power. With a good exhaust setup, you should be able to get around 120kw's at the front wheels with the manual. I recently did a conversion and love it. It's quick and the car has a much more raw feeling.

The first thing to note - is that power is never cheap. Even the basics such an exhaust system can tick well over $800-1000 for any car. If you want serious power then you look at inducting the engine and/or beefing up the internals, or fitting other engines. In some cases you can enhance power through better electronic management (relflash/piggyback ecu etc) but most of the time - the tune is done to compliment an induction system or serious internal upgrade making most of the newfound power.

20kw is a fair increase for the 6G74. The 'cheapest' mod you could do for power is probably fit up 380/Ralliart cams, exhaust system incl. extractors and have the car tuned for higher octane fuel. That should get you near 170kw's at the fly. The ralliart magna pumped out 180kw's but that also had higher compression.

RedValdez has a really good point to upgrading suspension and driveline components FIRST before doing any power modifications.

It's one thing to have lots of power being pumped out from the engine, and it's anouther to be able to put it to the ground. The fwd platform has it's limits and is terrible for having high amounts of power being delivered through it, unless of course it's incredibly well designed (as the french car fanatic Dave would argue). So it's important to try and reduce the usual problems of powerful fwd cars - mainly with traction, understeer and torque steer. This is able to be improved with better tyres, bigger/wider wheels and better and a more firmer suspension setup (including swaybars, lowered springs + shocks or coilovers, bracing, anti-lift kits etc). And of course, obviously, the car will be far more enjoyable and fun with better handling. It's a win-win either way.

Having the stock boat suspension and thin tyres the magna's are equipped with, will ensure that you will have plenty of annoying wheel spin, understeer and axle tramping/tramlining - you overcome this by slowing down and using less of the power - so in effect whatever power you put into the engine can be outweighed by the driveline not being able to properly deliver it. You then need to go slower and loose some of that usable power. Plus without better suspension, cornering is far less enjoyable.

However, the stock suspension and tyre setup is really not up to the job if you want to make use of the power to its full extent. As an example of the importance of tyres and suspension: I used to run Ku31's and I now have some Falken ZE912's tyres that are both 235mm wide, and the front wheels now spin under harder launches and even during higher rpm gear changes. Don't even get me started on wet conditions. The difference between the KU31's and the ZE912's meant that even under full throttle and a hard launch the tyres would not spin and I'd get heaps of grip so more power was usable not loosing to having spinning wheels. I've also got stock suspension, and recently fitted a rear factory swaybar, and that difference has made the car far more enjoyable and now I can put more power down through corners before the car starts to excessively understeer, shift off the road and I've lost a bit of surging with the fuel not moving away from the pickup as much.

[QUOTE Ok... sorry to burst a few bubbles here but it ain't gonna happen cheap.
Suspension upgrade will improve handling but won't increase power as I'm sure we all know.

OP, what is your budget? That would give us a more accurate idea of what mods you can do to achieve your goal, but, if you are looking for a 20kw increase on a budget, it ain't gonna happen.

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Well as far as budget goes, I don't have a figure in mind. I was trying to get a a few opinions on what mods will give real gains and what are fluff. Based on what I've heard so far, and the car I've got, I'll be doing things in the following order:

- manual conversion
- rear muffler
- wheel alignment (don't feel right since 17's went on)

This will be all I can afford at this stage.

Second phase will be:

- suspension
- extractors
- 98 tune

Thanks for the input so far guys, making these decisions a whole lot easier.

3.8 conversion is great value if you can afford it, otherwise I'd go in this order:

rear muffler change

Extractors if you find cheap ones (maybe 2-3Kw),

I'm yet to see proof a high flow cat gives good gains on a Magna, but again you may find a cheap one at wreckers in ok condition?

If you can do the install mechanicals, then 380 cams would be decent bang for buck (giving you 6-8Kw)

A proper 98 tune will be $500 and I'd be surprised to see even 5Kw, even less until you do cams, extractors exhaust etc first.

Personally on a budget I'd do the muffler first, then 380 cams (if you don't need to pay full install costs!), extractors and other exhaust only if you find something decent second hand, stick with the standard airbox and paper filter, and last thing to take advantage of cams etc and still at a budget get your TJ ECU re-flashed with a ralliart-tune.

I think with the above, and the manual conversion it will be like a different car, and then you will really want to do suspension and brakes.

Based on what I've heard so far, and the car I've got, I'll be doing things in the following order:
Sounds good mate. You should be happy with the results. My only suggestion would be to do a wheel alignment first - they're not expensive, they'll save you wearing out your tyres prematurely, and you'll need another one done when you upgrade your suspension anyway.


I'm yet to see proof a high flow cat gives good gains on a Magna, but again you may find a cheap one at wreckers in ok condition?
You're right - high flow cats don't do much for power. I believe Steve Knight recommended this when he started doing Magna retunes. As cats deteriorate over time, he wanted customers to have new cats in case they were affecting the retune results.

You're right - high flow cats don't do much for power. I believe Steve Knight recommended this when he started doing Magna retunes. As cats deteriorate over time, he wanted customers to have new cats in case they were affecting the retune results.

i beg to differ if your cat has a few kms on it, do it, i changed mine to a 200cpi metal core and had a noticable differece, having said that it was probly also my bottleneck on the exhaust

3.8 conversion is great value if you can afford it, otherwise I'd go in this order:

rear muffler change

Extractors if you find cheap ones (maybe 2-3Kw),

I'm yet to see proof a high flow cat gives good gains on a Magna, but again you may find a cheap one at wreckers in ok condition?

If you can do the install mechanicals, then 380 cams would be decent bang for buck (giving you 6-8Kw)

A proper 98 tune will be $500 and I'd be surprised to see even 5Kw, even less until you do cams, extractors exhaust etc first.

Personally on a budget I'd do the muffler first, then 380 cams (if you don't need to pay full install costs!), extractors and other exhaust only if you find something decent second hand, stick with the standard airbox and paper filter, and last thing to take advantage of cams etc and still at a budget get your TJ ECU re-flashed with a ralliart-tune.

I think with the above, and the manual conversion it will be like a different car, and then you will really want to do suspension and brakes.

Sounds like a good plan there.

I've installed cams several times before so should be able to work it out, although I've never pulled a rocker cover on one of these so I might be surprised.
Would a wrecker want to seperate 380 cams? Can they really give 6-8kw without a tune? Or maybe that's with tune.

Please explain the ECU reflash with ralliart tune... is that a cheaper tune option than the $500 98 tune?
Also does the ralliart tune require 95octane?

Sounds good mate. You should be happy with the results. My only suggestion would be to do a wheel alignment first - they're not expensive, they'll save you wearing out your tyres prematurely, and you'll need another one done when you upgrade your suspension anyway.


You're right - high flow cats don't do much for power. I believe Steve Knight recommended this when he started doing Magna retunes. As cats deteriorate over time, he wanted customers to have new cats in case they were affecting the retune results.

Thanks mate, yea I will be doing the alignment straight away... sorry I didn't explain that well. My car is in a workshop at the moment and it won't leave until the first 3 are done. There is a mechanic down the other end of the workshop that will do the alignment for me. I have the manual donor car parked in the bay along side mine so I can have my way with it.

Disappointing not to have the $$ to do it all at once while the car is apart.

As far as cats, I've always done my own 'high flowing' if they fall apart or start to rattle :)

380 cams will give about 5or 6 and the tune will add another 5 or so. If you put in 380 cams just get the ralliart tune flashed, its a pretty good tune considering its free.

Please explain the ECU reflash with ralliart tune... is that a cheaper tune option than the $500 98 tune?
Also does the ralliart tune require 95octane?
It's still got to be flashed with the new tune, so you'd still need to pay - it'd be cheaper, but by how much I couldn't say.

Ralliart Tune is 91 octane too.

380 cams will give about 5or 6 and the tune will add another 5 or so. If you put in 380 cams just get the ralliart tune flashed, its a pretty good tune considering its free.

So 380 cams are very similar to ralliart cams?
Please explain this free flash tune... I am no good with ECU's who does this for free? 91 aspect makes this even better.

The ralliart tune can be flashed by anyone with the program and cable on their laptop. it is a 91 tune designed for a ralliart or 380 cammed magna as the cams are the same. won't give big power but it could give about 2kw or so.

So 380 cams are very similar to ralliart cams?
Please explain this free flash tune... I am no good with ECU's who does this for free? 91 aspect makes this even better.

Just remember the cams need to either be no.7 or 15 cams. As Hayden said they are the same but there is a big difference between the no.6 & 7 cam.
Being in SA, SK wld be able to do the ECU flash for you.

Just remember the cams need to either be no.7 or 15 cams. As Hayden said they are the same but there is a big difference between the no.6 & 7 cam.
Being in SA, SK wld be able to do the ECU flash for you.

Are all 380 cams be no. 7 or no. 15? Got a quote today for a par of 380 cams $300... sounds alright actually. I think I will definitely slot them instead of a 98 tune. Would the valves flutter with stock springs? Or are they more of an extra duration cam lobe? Has anyone pushed these to redline with stock springs?

They are a very mild lift improvment mate, you don't need to change the springs. AFAIK. 380 cams are printed with 15, ralliart cams with 7. 380 cams are better though as they are newer and will have less wear on the lobes. $300 is a good price for them.

The ralliart tune can be flashed by anyone with the program and cable on their laptop. it is a 91 tune designed for a ralliart or 380 cammed magna as the cams are the same. won't give big power but it could give about 2kw or so.

Sounds worthwhile all the same. So who's in SA that would do this for a carton of beer and a shoe shine?

Muffler 5kw $100
Headers 3kw $200
Cams 8kw $300
Ralliart tune 2kw $200? Beer?

~~18 kw and $800 if I'm lucky with parts and spend a bit of time fitting myself. And even better I'm still on 91!

Do Ralliart have the stock intake/airbox setup?

surely u would get more KW out of headers comapred to just a muffler?

surely u would get more KW out of headers comapred to just a muffler?

rear muffler is far more restrictive on a stock magna non sports or vrx

yes ralliart uses stock intake, the standard paper filter is also good enough for power.

surely u would get more KW out of headers comapred to just a muffler?
Stock Magna headers are quite an efficient design so there's no significant gains to be had. The consensus seems to be that they improve driveability much more than outright power.

Stock Magna headers are quite an efficient design so there's no significant gains to be had. The consensus seems to be that they improve driveability much more than outright power.

Yeah that's makes sense when you put it like that