Hello guys at AMC, I'm a new member just picked up a magna 2 weeks ago, my second car and loving it.

Heres some pics:
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/5856/imageufl.jpg
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/2721/img0143u.jpghttp://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5749/img0140ea.jpg

Got it for a decent price $5000 with 132xxx km and is pretty clean inside and out all stock.
As you can see its a 03 TL VR Limited Edition

I've been doing research on mods on this forum and have come up with some common or popular things to do. But they seem to apply more to the TJ. Correct me if im wrong, but this is what I had in mind for the next 6months or so:

1. Muffler... necessary for the TL VR LE? if so whatts good? lukey or redback seems to be popular?
2. Headers... I was thinking pace makers or HM?
3. Cams... Ralliart or 380? is there a difference?
4. Tune... can the stock ecu be used? or must I buy a piggyback?

My first priority is low-mid torque and second is high end power
I want to smooth out the power and torque curves
End hp firgures are not important

I wanted to know everyone's opinion, pricing and whether or not they are worth it.

thanks

Muffler - Yours is fine
Headers - HM Headers are a great choice
Cams - 380 Cams would be a great upgrade
Tune - SKR (Steve Knight Racing) in SA do a postal tune on the standard ECU for approx $500.

VR LE..

Black Leather?
Black Momo Wheel?
Leather Handbrake?

SuFz :ninja:

Nice example. If thats the same one I was thinking of, you did a good job on getting it for that price. Was that the same one that was originallly advertised for about $7300 and had a bit of spoiler fade, but was otherwise in good nick?

@sufz: I think your thinking of the VRX LE, I dont have any leather and just a mitsu steering wheel. I quite like it, not a big fan of leather haha

@ammerty: its the one your thinking of, the spoiler is faded and theres one or two dings but otherwise very good cond

By the way guys is it worth changing the suspension? I know they came with konis but I was thinking of lowering just a tad
and if i was to remove the wing what would it cost to fill the holes and paint?

Muffler - You have the single outlet sports muffler, best to keep what you have
Headers - HM Headers are the best choice, were designed by Mitsubishi for the Ralliart
Cams - 380 Cams are the same as the Ralliart
Tune - SKR (Steve Knight Racing) in SA do a postal tune on the standard ECU for approx $250, you just need to advise Steve what you have done and he will get a tune that is pretty close (without using a dyno) Do this last of course.

Tune - SKR (Steve Knight Racing) in SA do a postal tune on the standard ECU for approx $250, you just need to advise Steve what you have done and he will get a tune that is pretty close (without using a dyno) Do this last of course.

Or that..

SuFz :ninja:

...
3. Cams... Ralliart or 380? is there a difference?
4. Tune... can the stock ecu be used? or must I buy a piggyback?

My first priority is low-mid torque and second is high end power
I want to smooth out the power and torque curves
End hp firgures are not important


Given your stated intent, investigating a set of vernier cam gears to go with a set of 380 (#15) or Ralliart (#7) cams and researching advancing the camshaft timing might be fruitful at relatively modest cost - there's some good info on this topic floating around these forums. Even advancing the stock cams appropriately, while not delivering much of a power increase, can improve power delivery noticeably.

As an alternative to a SKR postal tune (which is most conveniently done with a spare ECU), if you can find a tuner local to you who knows about using ECUFlash on Evos and Subarus, your stock ECU can be tuned directly - see the thread linked in my signature for more info.

Given your stated intent, investigating a set of vernier cam gears to go with a set of 380 (#15) or Ralliart (#7) cams and researching advancing the camshaft timing might be fruitful at relatively modest cost - there's some good info on this topic floating around these forums. Even advancing the stock cams appropriately, while not delivering much of a power increase, can improve power delivery noticeably.

As an alternative to a SKR postal tune (which is most conveniently done with a spare ECU), if you can find a tuner local to you who knows about using ECUFlash on Evos and Subarus, your stock ECU can be tuned directly - see the thread linked in my signature for more info.

I like how you think. I don't have a spare ecu and I need this car for work so postal wasn't really an option to begin with haha.
I have looked and this is all I can find that might know what their doing in Brisbane:
http://www.bulletcars.com/superchargers/custom-dyno-tuning.html
They sell superchargers for the magna and seem to have some knowledge about them.

I have also looked at cam gears before thinking about putting in 380 cams,
I found Fidanza adjustable gears here: http://www.importperformanceparts.net/
and I've never heard of Vernier but I'll check them out

Thanks for the input

EDIT: couldn't find any for the magna... if you anyone finds the time can they link me? THANKS :D

I've never heard of Vernier but I'll check them out


Vernier gears are a type of adjustable cam gear, not a brand. The Fidanza one you looked at would have been a vernier cam gear. Fidanza vernier cam gear on RPW (http://www.rpw.com.au/shop/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=2408&category_id=845&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1&vmcchk=1&Itemid=1)

Vernier gears are a type of adjustable cam gear, not a brand. The Fidanza one you looked at would have been a vernier cam gear. Fidanza vernier cam gear on RPW (http://www.rpw.com.au/shop/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=2408&category_id=845&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1&vmcchk=1&Itemid=1)

OHHH I see, thanks for that so the ones on that link above are ok? or will Mal have something? I'll just ask him

After seeing the price for that, it makes me feel stupid paying $7500 for a 2003 TJ vr-x..

Very nice car though mate, good canvas ready to be attacked!! :)

Looks like a good list of mods.

With the extra performance you'd want to look at 380 front brakes, then down the track suspension upgrades.

After seeing the price for that, it makes me feel stupid paying $7500 for a 2003 TJ vr-x..

Very nice car though mate, good canvas ready to be attacked!! :)

Paid 10k for my 02 and I'm satisfied with the price :) Though yellow manual, 105k, new mono wheel etc justifies it IMO.

After seeing the price for that, it makes me feel stupid paying $7500 for a 2003 TJ vr-x..

Very nice car though mate, good canvas ready to be attacked!! :)

TL and TW may be newer but they go for about the same as a tj due to their appearance there seems to be less demand for them, i know when buying my magna i didn't even consider them. If you like them though the are great value.

I have also looked at cam gears before thinking about putting in 380 cams, I found Fidanza adjustable gears here: http://www.importperformanceparts.net/
and I've never heard of Vernier but I'll check them out.

The Fidanza adjustable gears are what I have - the Diamante 3.5l part numbers are the correct ones.
You will pay more for them here, by a fair margin, than importing them from the US.

By vernier, I meant that the gears had vernier markings for setting the camshaft timing relative to the nominal (ie stock) timing. Not all adjustable gears have vernier markings (the Fidanzas definitely do).

By the way guys is it worth changing the suspension? I know they came with konis but I was thinking of lowering just a tad
Put a set of Dobinson or King Lows in, and get the Konis rebuilt. Fulcrum Suspension in Brisbane can rebuild them. It'll handle amazingly afterwards...

After seeing the price for that, it makes me feel stupid paying $7500 for a 2003 TJ vr-x..

Very nice car though mate, good canvas ready to be attacked!! :)

Haha , don't mate. I really wanted a TJ VRX, but couldn't find a decent one so I settled for the TL because it was so clean and within my price range, double win.
Admittedly the TJ with a nice kit looks so much better than the TL, but its growing on me


Looks like a good list of mods.

With the extra performance you'd want to look at 380 front brakes, then down the track suspension upgrades.

I was thinking about this, but should I just swap out the springs and rebuild the Konis like Red Valdez has said or is it worth it investing in some nice coilovers?

You already have Koni so keep them. Even if they need a rebuild you really can't compare Koni to coil overs (sits back and awaits flame from the usual experts)

What you really need to do is work out exactly what you expect from the car and then you can build a list and do it properly once

You already have Koni so keep them. Even if they need a rebuild you really can't compare Koni to coil overs (sits back and awaits flame from the usual experts)

What you really need to do is work out exactly what you expect from the car and then you can build a list and do it properly once

No flaming here..

As Mal said you've got a top notch brand already.. Rebuilding them is an option and a valid one..

Coilovers are another valid option too.. In doing so though.. You'll have a fairly stiff ride with height, dampener adjustability with pillow top camber adjustable strut tops..

Both options have been track proven.. In QLD a few of the guys have tracked their cars with KSport n Kido coilover set ups and have had great success.

Koni shocks have a renowned name for themselves already.. So ultimately the choice is yours in looking at the direction you're wanting to go with your car.

SuFz

I really wanted a TJ VRX, but couldn't find a decent one so I settled for the TL because it was so clean and within my price range, double win.
Admittedly the TJ with a nice kit looks so much better than the TL, but its growing on me
Sell the TL, buy my TJ VR-X!


I was thinking about this, but should I just swap out the springs and rebuild the Konis like Red Valdez has said or is it worth it investing in some nice coilovers?
I'd go good springs + rebuilt Konis... but that's me. There's lots of coilover fans here. Up to you at the end of the day.

What are your experiences with coilovers Damien..?

That'd probably paint a picture similar to what is required here..

17" + Coilovers
18" + Shocks n Springs

It would give him an idea of what to expect with either option..

SuFz

Sell the TL, buy my TJ VR-X!


I'd go good springs + rebuilt Konis... but that's me. There's lots of coilover fans here. Up to you at the end of the day.

HAHA nice try, checked it out anyway and its so clean I would buy your VRX in a flash, but I like driving manual and now that I have the TL, its too much of a hassle to sell and buy another
I will most likely go coils because they are flexible, you can adjust accordingly. But if the time comes and I can't afford it obviously I will choose the cheaper option.

Anyways gotta do other stuff first, suspension will probably be last, seeing as the Konis feel fine right now.

thanks for all the input guys

Just do your research mate, unlike most here I have had experience with more than 3 or 4 cars and have seen these fashions come, fail and die. Have been in the trade for over 20 years where as a lot of coil over experts have been in a club for 3 years lol

As for adjustability this is also taken totally out of regard in the backyard as you move a height then you mess with a spring rate, you mess with dampening you mess with compression and rebound......so many are clueless into the effect all this has

With regards to spring tensions and rebound of the shock

If the design was viewed, you would see that spring tension does not get adjusted at all when adjusting height and neither is the rebound of the shock itself.

Like I said last time this came up.. Im not having a crack at Mal, he's a mate of mine.. Just trying to explain the design of the Kido Coilovers.

But good luck with your choice mate!

This is a perfect example of peoples opinions being on completely opposite ends of the scale..!

SuFz

Nice buy man and a great price.
have a look at Shoots ride thread in members machines. it is quick and handles great. plenty of great ideas for you there.. I also will be trying out coilovers for my self, figure i can not knock them till i try them..


Just do your research mate, unlike most here I have had experience with more than 3 or 4 cars and have seen these fashions come, fail and die. Have been in the trade for over 20 years where as a lot of coil over experts have been in a club for 3 years lol

As for adjustability this is also taken totally out of regard in the backyard as you move a height then you mess with a spring rate, you mess with dampening you mess with compression and rebound......so many are clueless into the effect all this has

Put your stirring spoon away..

Danny

Nice buy man and a great price.
have a look at Shoots ride thread in members machines. it is quick and handles great. plenty of great ideas for you there.. I also will be trying out coilovers for my self, figure i can not knock them till i try them..



Put your stirring spoon away..

Danny

No stirring spoon being used, just many years of experience and many years of seeing these "fads" come and go. If I had a $ for everytime I have seen these cheap fads come and go, and not just coil overs as in this case but in many car related things, I could retire

Simple fact, I have been in the trade for many years, built and sponsored track cars, rally cars, Targa cars etc etc, I have been there, have seen that and seen so many people who have wasted money only a year or two later to regret what they have done and end up spending even more $$ on a replacement of some sort of quality. I am by no means an expert in suspension but I know what I am talking about, when I am in doubt I consult with others who are suspension specialists and when they have Coilovers mentioned to them they cringe. These guys are not just a group on a forum who have a couple of mates with coil overs with the impression that joe blow has them so they must be good.

Poly bushes are one of these things, so called "power" chips, various other so called performance and handling items that over the years have come and gone.

Sure, the current coil overs may be great when new, may feel good but all you guys are sitting there having a go at me stating that I should try them, well I have guys, not Kido but many others. Again as I say, it is not as simple as adjusting a cars height as you change so many other aspects of steering geometary, rebound rates, dampening rates, camber, caster etc etc. I am 100% sure that each time you guys adjust something you will not dish out for another wheel allignment, will not have a clue on how most of the stuff I have mentioned works or changes the way the car drives.

Seems that you lot can push your $900 suspension package as much as you want but as soon as I step in and give actual reason behind why these are not as suitable for street use as a properly set up suspension set up you lot are more than happy to have a go at me. Well I give as good as I get only difference is I give it in public, not just in media where there is no way the person being flamed can defend themselves......was that a big enough spoon for you??????

No stirring spoon being used, just many years of experience and many years of seeing these "fads" come and go. If I had a $ for everytime I have seen these cheap fads come and go, and not just coil overs as in this case but in many car related things, I could retire

Simple fact, I have been in the trade for many years, built and sponsored track cars, rally cars, Targa cars etc etc, I have been there, have seen that and seen so many people who have wasted money only a year or two later to regret what they have done and end up spending even more $$ on a replacement of some sort of quality. I am by no means an expert in suspension but I know what I am talking about, when I am in doubt I consult with others who are suspension specialists and when they have Coilovers mentioned to them they cringe. These guys are not just a group on a forum who have a couple of mates with coil overs with the impression that joe blow has them so they must be good.

Poly bushes are one of these things, so called "power" chips, various other so called performance and handling items that over the years have come and gone.

Sure, the current coil overs may be great when new, may feel good but all you guys are sitting there having a go at me stating that I should try them, well I have guys, not Kido but many others. Again as I say, it is not as simple as adjusting a cars height as you change so many other aspects of steering geometary, rebound rates, dampening rates, camber, caster etc etc. I am 100% sure that each time you guys adjust something you will not dish out for another wheel allignment, will not have a clue on how most of the stuff I have mentioned works or changes the way the car drives.

Seems that you lot can push your $900 suspension package as much as you want but as soon as I step in and give actual reason behind why these are not as suitable for street use as a properly set up suspension set up you lot are more than happy to have a go at me. Well I give as good as I get only difference is I give it in public, not just in media where there is no way the person being flamed can defend themselves......was that a big enough spoon for you??????

^^ LO!

TBH.. ANYTIME I adjust something.. I get a wheel alignment.. But I cant speak for everyone..

As Mal said.. He's been in contact with specialists and they have given their reasoning. Having tracked a Corolla myself with Blitz Coilovers, I must say they were fantastic and having the coilovers in my Verada, they're fantastic too, so I guess thats my reasoning.

But at the end of the day.. Everyone has their own opinion and thats what we're here for..

SuFz :ninja:

No flaming here..

As Mal said you've got a top notch brand already.. Rebuilding them is an option and a valid one..

Coilovers are another valid option too.. In doing so though.. You'll have a fairly stiff ride with height, dampener adjustability with pillow top camber adjustable strut tops..

Both options have been track proven.. In QLD a few of the guys have tracked their cars with KSport n Kido coilover set ups and have had great success.

Koni shocks have a renowned name for themselves already.. So ultimately the choice is yours in looking at the direction you're wanting to go with your car.

SuFz

just wondering who has tracked the kido's?

at the end of the day a well setup koni & springs and well setup coilover, coilovers will be faster around the track - why else would 99% of race cars use them for track or rally.

i think the problem is ppl just believe coilovers will last forever which is false.

mal can you please explain why your suspension experts think coilovers are the devil, or can you please put into context for me, are they refuring to a particular brand/type?

just wondering who has tracked the kido's?

VVRR44 - He stated he was ecstatic with the difference and went into a little more depth.

SuFz :ninja:

VVRR44 - He stated he was ecstatic with the difference and went into a little more depth.

SuFz :ninja:

oh yeah he was fast around lakeside too, do you know how many track sessions he got out of the coilovers?

There is no denying that coilovers are the only worthwhile track option, but these arent being put on track cars. They are going on road cars.

Racetracks are typically extremely smooth and devoid of potholes. This cannot be said of australian roads, which are typically shithouse.

I cant see these Kidos lasting more than 2 years on a regularly driven car without a rebuild. You would see 4 years however from coilovers like Bilsteins - talking from personal experience

oh yeah he was fast around lakeside too, do you know how many track sessions he got out of the coilovers?

He's still driving around on them the last time I saw his car.. He's been out to Lakeside a few times since too.

SuFz :ninja:

Dave how can u compare something you know to kidos that of this day nobody has needed rebuilt.

Dave how can u compare something you know to kidos that of this day nobody has needed rebuilt.

Very true. I am generalising here and I have not seen Kidos in real life at all. However, the saying of 'you get what you pay for' usually rings true. You guys got them at a great price, but we have seen this all before with the K-sport coilovers. Not to mention I have seen this amongst other motoring circles I have been a part of over the past 10 odd years.

what have seen about ksports?

Lots of opinions here, none more valid than any other including Mal's, personally I run the Kidos, I am extremely happy with them thus far, but I do not expect miracles. While some of what Mal has said is plainly incorrect regarding how the product works and also how we use them (I like SuFz would repay for a wheel alignment if I changed any settings on them including height, I would expect all other members running them are smart enough to do the same), the overall vibe of his post is indeed true. These coilovers (Kido specifically) so far are going flawless both for road and track, but nobody has run them for an extended period, and they were cheaper than your typical proven to be reliable coilover options. We could have just got a really good deal but we could also have gotten exactly what we paid for. The spring options common around here have been going for years and by design are much simpler and more likely to last a lot longer.

I personally am prepared for the notion that within the next few years they may require a rebuild, and I am okay with that for the ride height and performance they allow me, superior to any spring setup. Like has been said, this is individual for all of us. I swear by my Kidos so far and will recommend them to anyone. Mal is plainly not supportive of them because he believes they will perform similarly to past "fads" which have failed. Neither one of us has any idea how this specific product will fare long run, I could be really wrong and they could fail tomorrow, he could be really wrong and they could last many years yet. There is no correct answer here, anybody reading this thread will have to make up their minds for their specific application.

Lots of opinions here, none more valid than any other including Mal's, personally I run the Kidos, I am extremely happy with them thus far, but I do not expect miracles. While some of what Mal has said is plainly incorrect regarding how the product works and also how we use them (I like SuFz would repay for a wheel alignment if I changed any settings on them including height, I would expect all other members running them are smart enough to do the same), the overall vibe of his post is indeed true. These coilovers (Kido specifically) so far are going flawless both for road and track, but nobody has run them for an extended period, and they were cheaper than your typical proven to be reliable coilover options. We could have just got a really good deal but we could also have gotten exactly what we paid for. The spring options common around here have been going for years and by design are much simpler and more likely to last a lot longer.

I personally am prepared for the notion that within the next few years they may require a rebuild, and I am okay with that for the ride height and performance they allow me, superior to any spring setup. Like has been said, this is individual for all of us. I swear by my Kidos so far and will recommend them to anyone. Mal is plainly not supportive of them because he believes they will perform similarly to past "fads" which have failed. Neither one of us has any idea how this specific product will fare long run, I could be really wrong and they could fail tomorrow, he could be really wrong and they could last many years yet. There is no correct answer here, anybody reading this thread will have to make up their minds for their specific application.

:stoopid:

My favourite part is where you said.. "..I like SuFz.."

SuFz :ninja:

:stoopid:

My favourite part is where you said.. "..I like SuFz.."

SuFz :ninja:

But I do like you SuFz! And I like your car because it is exactly like mine with different wheels. ;)

Also another thing to add to the discussion, if you actually do research on Kidos, they are run pretty wide through the car scenes. We Magna and Verada owners are not the only group running them and they are far from obscure. There is an Aussie distributor, and I have seen Subaru, Infiniti (Nissan), BMW, Mazda and even Porsche car clubs doing buys for these. No doubt more. Apparently they are trusted over in the Asia-Pacific area (This is a third person account though) and the manufacturer states they will last anywhere from 60-120,000 miles which is at least 90,000km although I will stress that's most likely just a sales line and I doubt they have done conclusive testing for that. :P

Point is, while it is cheaper and less proven than the more well known names here in Aus, at least it's safe to say it's far from cheap yumcha shit.

what have seen about ksports?

Google search ksport coilover problems.

Not saying they are all like that, but im sure that some folk on here had to rebuild them prematurely?

TL and TW may be newer but they go for about the same as a tj due to their appearance there seems to be less demand for them, i know when buying my magna i didn't even consider them. If you like them though the are great value.

Watch it watch it your stepping on my shoes :) just kidding:happy:

Haha nah I'm the same, much prefer the J's to the L/W series. Only things I liked better were the doors (Skirts, trims and handles all better on the updated models) and the cluster designs were better, and I have both of those things! Also the steering rack but don't imagine I'll get around to ever doing that unless mine gets ****ed.

That said, the L/W VR-X is a lot sexier than the Verada or the base models. With the colour coded headlight backings, in the right colour and with the right stance they can look really sexy and a lot more modern than the J's. Interiors though... meh for the entire lineup.

Haha nah I'm the same, much prefer the J's to the L/W series. Only things I liked better were the doors (Skirts, trims and handles all better on the updated models) and the cluster designs were better, and I have both of those things! Also the steering rack but don't imagine I'll get around to ever doing that unless mine gets ****ed.

That said, the L/W VR-X is a lot sexier than the Verada or the base models. With the colour coded headlight backings, in the right colour and with the right stance they can look really sexy and a lot more modern than the J's. Interiors though... meh for the entire lineup.

The only thing I miss that the J doesnt have to the L/W series is the updated safety features..
Plus the vr-x leather that I desperately want!! :)
We can only dream sometimes :D