In 2000, I bought a new NL Pajero. Almost immediately, the clutch shuddered. At each service, I reported it and the service manager said "Yessir! We will look at it". I could never get them off their bum to show how it shuddered. They tested it (so they said) and reported that nothing was wrong. If you rev the engine and then bring the clutch pedal up, no shudders at all, but I never do that. I let the ISC motor take up the load and when the clutch is fully engaged, I then give it some throttle. When it was cold, it used to shudder. When it warmed uip, no problems. The shudder was worse after towing my caravan - early the next day it was awful. Finally, in Esperance I took it to the Mits dealer and he got the workshop foreman to test it. When he did as I do, it shuddered really badly and they replaced the clutch that day. Fantastic service.

The pressure plate was fine and the friction plate still had the factory machining marks on the outer 2/3rds of the surface. The inner 1/3 surface was the only band contacting. This was after 43000 km. The clutch was fine for a while, but after 10000 km it was shuddering again. I suspect that they didn't machine the flywheel and it probably is conical, the inner sections of the contact face being higher than the outer. Finally, the Mitsubishi rep from Sydney looked at it and gave me an extended warranty, which of course I never used. It is well out of warranty now.

There has been a lot of talk lately about clutches and dampened flywheels. Everyone is recommending to go back to solid flywheels. Would a dampened flywheel cause shudder such as this? Remembering that the pressure plate was only slightly worn - on the inner 1/3 only with the outer 2/3 still having the original machining marks, is the 2 piece flywheel likely to cause this?

Manual clutches have dampers to smoothen out vibrations when you use the clutch. These dampers are usually in the clutch plate, and are springs or rubber blocks, or both. More complicated setups still have some sort of dampening. Unfortunately, these dampers work best at certain revs, at the wrong rpm they can actually make the clutch shudder. It is just a matter of finding the sweet spot for rpm, clutch engagement and speed of takeoff. If you are taking off on the fast idle setting of the ISC that is far too low. Sometimes getting some heat into the clutch helps too, try some gentle takeoffs in second gear with a fair amount of rpm and clutch slip, and see if that helps.

Wife's manual Lancer at 28,000 km needs about 1,800 to 2,000 rpm to take off without shudder.

Madmax:
Thanks for your comments. The shudder normally occurs only when it is cold, and I am taking off at low engine RPM. It has always been smooth enough when I give it a bit if revs (1000 R/min), but I shouldn't have to do that. Also, after I tow the caravan (not even reversing at the end of the day) it will shudder badly the next day. It is a savage Grip/Slip motion. The fact that only the inner 1/3 band of the friction plate showed any sign of wear makes me suspicious that the flywheel face was not flat. I suspect that the Mits dealer didn't machine it either because they didn't take the G'box out - they just slid it back about 80 mm - enough to get access to the pressure place bolts. The "new" clutchhas done 200000 km and is still fine, but I would like to know if itis a dual mass flywheel or a solid one and if a dual mass flywheel would give problems such as this.

NL Pajero: You really need the workshop manual to see how the clutch and flywheel are constructed.

Found one on the web, http://www.mitsubishi-forums.com/t25536-workshop-manual-download.htm

and here

http://www.mitsubishilinks.com/

Madmax:
Thnx for the links. Will chase them up. The correlation between the NL and Montero is rather hard to follow - have tried before, but will try again.

i have never driven a car that doesn't shudder when letting the clutch out at idle. 1000 rpm is still really slow for a clutch to be let out. you might find that because you are doing this it is shaking the motor as it is on the brink of stalling. if it is perfect @ 1000 rpm, why not just take off at 1000 rpm?

i have never driven a car that doesn't shudder when letting the clutch out at idle. 1000 rpm is still really slow for a clutch to be let out. you might find that because you are doing this it is shaking the motor as it is on the brink of stalling. if it is perfect @ 1000 rpm, why not just take off at 1000 rpm?

Agreed. You just have to find the sweet spot, where the clutch doesn't shudder, the engine isn't labouring, and the acceleration is adequate. Varies with different cars, as well as the age of the car. Driver needs to adapt to the car, doesn't work the other way round.

Automatics, on the other hand . . . . . are for people who can't quite get it right. lol

also could be other things, like a warped flywheel, worn engine mount, oil on friction place. but i guess if you have seen the flywheel, it may not be the case. how are the mounts anyway?

Thanks all for you replies. hen the car was new, and when the clutch was replaced, it was PERFECT. It was only after a few thousand km that it started to shudder, and then only after towing the caravan - when it was cold the next day. When warmed up, no problems. That is why I tend to think it is the flywheel not properly flat. My original question was, although maybe not clearly put, what is the diofference between a solid flywheel and a dual mass flywheel? If it is a dual mass flywheel, would that cause it to shudder?

The fact that I sould still see the original machining marks on the friction plate at 430000 km (outer 2/3 of it anyway) shows that I am not hard on clutches, and that something was and still is wrong. The clutch should be smooth over any conditions - there should be no 'sweet spot'. The clutch on my wife's TF Magna is as sweet as...

Thanks all for you replies. hen the car was new, and when the clutch was replaced, it was PERFECT. It was only after a few thousand km that it started to shudder, and then only after towing the caravan - when it was cold the next day. When warmed up, no problems. That is why I tend to think it is the flywheel not properly flat. My original question was, although maybe not clearly put, what is the diofference between a solid flywheel and a dual mass flywheel? If it is a dual mass flywheel, would that cause it to shudder?

The fact that I sould still see the original machining marks on the friction plate at 430000 km (outer 2/3 of it anyway) shows that I am not hard on clutches, and that something was and still is wrong. The clutch should be smooth over any conditions - there should be no 'sweet spot'. The clutch on my wife's TF Magna is as sweet as...

Causing shudder (http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=dual+mass+flywheel+causing+shudder&oq=dual+mass+flywheel+causing+shudder&gs_l=hp.3..0i22.2565.11455.0.11781.30.29.1.0.0.0.3 60.7184.1j0j24j3.28.0.edymh..1.0...1.1.JJPsEPYDHsk&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=7c2d10833944c2d8&biw=1280&bih=909)

Difference (http://www.clutch-kits-australia.com/dual-mass-flywheel.html)

If it is a dual mass flywheel, then replace it for a couple thousand and see if it fixes the problem. or, take off at 1000 rpm. lol

"The fact that I sould still see the original machining marks on the friction plate at 430000 km " Oops - it should read 43000 km. I wish about 430000 km!

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" i have never driven a car that doesn't shudder when letting the clutch out at idle. 1000 rpm is still really slow for a clutch to be let out. you might find that because you are doing this it is shaking the motor as it is on the brink of stalling. if it is perfect @ 1000 rpm, why not just take off at 1000 rpm? " The engines in both my Mistsis are as smooth as. They will take off up a reasonably steep hill with no throttle - just on the ISC. It is only occasionally that the Pajero shudders. The engine mounts appear to be OK. It s only when it is cold, and typoically after towing my caravan (but not necessareily reversing it at the end of the day). Give it a boot full of revs and it is OK, but I don't like doing that, nor should I have to.

read those links (one is just a search in google) by what you are describing it sounds like your flywheel cushions are pooched.

Bellto:
Thank you very much for the links. I had a look at the photos of the friction and pressure plate I took back in 2001, and there are 4 dirty great big springs in the friction plate, so it is a single flywheel. The pressure plate shows rubbing on the inner band - maybe 40% of its contact area. The Friction plate showed rub marks on high spots near the rivets only. Original machining / finishing marks visible everywhere else. But there are 4 springs in the plate. It still doesn't explain why, after 43000 kn there was wear only on part of the pressure plate _ still say that the flywheel must be not flat. I guess I'll have to liveewith it - it doesn't shudder very oftern anyway.