I'm curious about the broken wave spring issue as discussed here (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97483).

Let's see if we can get some stats from those who have experienced this.
Poll open to all gens and not just AWD

Please post your comments in the other thread.

[EDIT] fixed poll. You can vote more than once if applicable.
Choose ALL options that apply to you! Choose one mileage range that most applies.

C'mon guys who've had this experience of a broken wave spring: pls vote so we can get some stats going!

mine broke at 167,167kms. Rebuilt aboiut 31,000kms ago with revised wavespring with the full rebuild :)

I'd be interested to know if any TW models have done a wave spring?

I'd be interested to know if any TW models have done a wave spring?

Great idea, but I don't appear to have ability to edit the poll!
Maybe a kind Mod could update it to include the following options:

Happened to my L series
Happened to my W series

C'mon guys who've had this experience of a broken wave spring: pls vote so we can get some stats going!

My old transmission spat out a chunk of wave spring when I dropped the fluid. It had 234500k on it.

My TW AWD has done 169,000 and trans is silky smooth. Last 12,000+ have been with 6G75 motor and it's all good.


mine broke at 167,167kms. Rebuilt aboiut 31,000kms ago with revised wavespring with the full rebuild :)

But your car still drove? How could it have been your wave spring? I thought it was just making noises and clunking...

I would be more interested in finding out how many people clock up over 200,000 km with the 4 speed transmission WITHOUT having the wave spring break on them, without concern for it being FWD or AWD, or model . . . .

Maybe add this to the poll?

Nooby question, What the heck is a wave spring LOL

Are 4spd auto 99 TH magnas included?

Cos we haven't had a single gearbox problem with ours and its at over 340,000kms, very unregular servicing, stock cooler.
I'd be surprised if the auto has ever been flushed since we've had it actually...

The car is second hand and probably had about 100,000kms when we got it, but maybe it had already been replaced before then? When did they start replacing it with the new spring?
I guess I could have a look through the service log

(Touch wood)



Edit: Wait, sorry is this just an AWD problem? Just saw that this is in the AWD Forum section, ours is a FWD so maybe disregard...?

Edit: Wait, sorry is this just an AWD problem? Just saw that this is in the AWD Forum section, ours is a FWD so maybe disregard...?
open to all gens and not just AWD. Probably should be moved to another forum.

Okay well I just checked the logbook and receipts and there is no mention of the automatic transmission having anything done other than flushes (the logbook is mysteriously empty after 2004 and 120,000kms when we got it though...).
Car is now at 345,000 kms.

Treat em mean, keep em keen I guess :P
(Double touch wood)

Mine was replaced at just 108,000km. Revised washer was fitted along with full flush. Putting in a tranny cooler and in line filter this w/end.
2003 KJ Veranda AWD.

@ Ando, Wave spring washer is found in the automatic transmission. It eventually lets go and if any of the pieces break through the filter, it can cause catastrophic damage. To replace this washer requires the removal of the transmission and for it to be opened and stripped down. An expensive repair!!

Still waiting to see an option like "not broken" . lol

Nooby question, What the heck is a wave spring LOL


Further to this...
...
@ Ando, Wave spring washer is found in the automatic transmission. It eventually lets go and if any of the pieces break through the filter, it can cause catastrophic damage. To replace this washer requires the removal of the transmission and for it to be opened and stripped down. An expensive repair!!

It looks like this...
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97483&p=1530906&viewfull=1#post1530906


By the way, I picked my TJ up at approx. 52,000 and I'm up to approx. 150,000 so far and my wave spring hasn't broken. [Puck runs away to touch LOTS of wood] :pray:

TJ SII Advance at 152,000 km - still not broken :)

TJ SII Advance at 152,000 km - still not broken :)

TJ @ 125,000 km - not broken.
TL @ 136,000 km - not broken.

I'd love to know what the actual failure rate of these cheap (to make) but expensive (to update) springs is. There are thousands of these boxes in cars all around the world, if we are talking about a few % failures, some of us could sleep better at night.

Wife's KJII Verada had wave spring break at 175K. Auto trans specialist (Fluidrive) quoted $1,850 to replace wave spring only and no warranty, or rebuild for $3,200 with 3-year conditional warranty.

My TJII AWD hasn't suffered a breakage and is currently at 247K.

TJ @ 125,000 km - not broken.
TL @ 136,000 km - not broken.

I'd love to know what the actual failure rate of these cheap (to make) but expensive (to update) springs is. There are thousands of these boxes in cars all around the world, if we are talking about a few % failures, some of us could sleep better at night.
I dont think that this poll can ever tell us that, unfortunately. I think what it may tell us is around what mileage it usually happens (if we get enough responses, and if there is in fact a pattern).

All so often the wave spring is blamed when it was fine and the oil pump let go or the planetary set let go, way too much is looked into the wave spring

I have customers with over 400k on the clock with original transmissions

Well, not many responses as yet but what we do have suggests that the mileage only needs to be about 80k+ for failures to start happening. 50% are between 80 and 120k while the remainder exceed 120k.
Of significance is the one which failed despite regular services of the ATF. My KH is at 200 so I guess based on these few stats its overdue :(

But really, not enough data yet to form any meaningful conclusions, so please vote if you've had a wave spring failure!

Well, not many responses as yet but what we do have suggests that the mileage only needs to be about 80k+ for failures to start happening. 50% are between 80 and 120k while the remainder exceed 120k.
Of significance is the one which failed despite regular services of the ATF. My KH is at 200 so I guess based on these few stats its overdue :(

But really, not enough data yet to form any meaningful conclusions, so please vote if you've had a wave spring failure!

Not wanting to rain on your parade or anything, but I'm unsure exactly what you hope to achieve with this poll. You wont really be able to draw any meaningful conclusion because you're only polling people who have had a failure. It's sort of like only polling the young liberals (or young labor) on who would form a better government.

You wont be able to conclude that 'most fail around the x kilometrage' because if the result is that the highest number of failure is around say 80,000km with 20 people reporting failure at that kilometrage... there may be 40 other people at that kilometrage who haven't had a failure, but you wouldn't know because you haven't polled them.

Even the conclusion that 'the mileage only needs to be about 80k+ for failures to start happening' is meaningless because you cannot measure it against the number of non failures. For example, if my car was approaching the kilometrage concluded in this poll as the time when wave springs fail, I might start thinking I should sell my car before it fails... but what if wave spring failure only occurrs in 1 out of every 100 cars? That would change my position and I wouldn't be thinking it was time to sell the car.

The poll should be ammended to include people who have not had failures at those km intervals, and for a more complete picture, a separate poll should be set up to measure failure or non-failure based on age of transmission.

You have a 50% chance of it failing, either it fails or it doesnt :P

Not wanting to rain on your parade or anything, but I'm unsure exactly what you hope to achieve with this poll. You wont really be able to draw any meaningful conclusion because you're only polling people who have had a failure. It's sort of like only polling the young liberals (or young labor) on who would form a better government.

You wont be able to conclude that 'most fail around the x kilometrage' because if the result is that the highest number of failure is around say 80,000km with 20 people reporting failure at that kilometrage... there may be 40 other people at that kilometrage who haven't had a failure, but you wouldn't know because you haven't polled them.

Even the conclusion that 'the mileage only needs to be about 80k+ for failures to start happening' is meaningless because you cannot measure it against the number of non failures. For example, if my car was approaching the kilometrage concluded in this poll as the time when wave springs fail, I might start thinking I should sell my car before it fails... but what if wave spring failure only occurrs in 1 out of every 100 cars? That would change my position and I wouldn't be thinking it was time to sell the car.

The poll should be ammended to include people who have not had failures at those km intervals, and for a more complete picture, a separate poll should be set up to measure failure or non-failure based on age of transmission.
Those are all valid points but if we had enough responses then it could still be useful.
For example imagine every car that ever had a wave spring failure was included in the poll and for the argument assume the failures clustered around 80ks. Then we could conclude that IF the wave spring was destined to fail in a particular car then it would most likely happen around 80ks. That could be comforting information in some ways.
But yeah, the poll can never be conclusive in any sense.
I hope we can see if regular maintenance makes any difference, I.e. out of the total of wave spring failures what proportion had proper servicing? So far only one.

Also, I already assume the proportion of cars with wave spring failure is very low compared with the total, otherwise there would have been an outcry by now.

Those are all valid points but if we had enough responses then it could still be useful.
For example imagine every car that ever had a wave spring failure was included in the poll and for the argument assume the failures clustered around 80ks. Then we could conclude that IF the wave spring was destined to fail in a particular car then it would most likely happen around 80ks. That could be comforting information in some ways.
But yeah, the poll can never be conclusive in any sense.
I hope we can see if regular maintenance makes any difference, I.e. out of the total of wave spring failures what proportion had proper servicing? So far only one.

Also, I already assume the proportion of cars with wave spring failure is very low compared with the total, otherwise there would have been an outcry by now.

Fair point, I hadn't thought about it that way.

One point about the poll.

Gathering statistics is all very well, but you must remember that they don't apply and aren't relevant to any one single case. Your car's wave spring breaks, or it doesn't. It's like saying that the chances of having an accident next time you drive is 1% as 1 in every 100 cars have an accident, but no one has a 1% accident, it's either you do (100%) or you don't. (0%)

We know the wave spring can break, and the chances increase with time and distance, no big news flash. But for every Mitsu box that self destructs, how many carry on to 350,000 km without a failure? Now THAT would be worth knowing!

My "solution" to the (possible) wave spring failure in my TJ and TL? Mobile phone in the car to ring for a tow truck, money in the bank to fund a rebuild. Less to worry about that way. lol

I think this poll is worthwhile, but I wanted to point out that a similar survey was started by SPETZ in July 2011.
It differed in that it covered all failures, not just those caused by wave-springs; despite which only 10 complete auto failures were reported.
No TL's were reported - but we know some have failed.
While no reliable conclusions can be drawn from just 10 reports, most of these were 3.5l
4sp TJs & failed between 120 & 155000kms.

Many of us would like to see a definitive, once-and-for-all survey with many more reports than was received by the earlier survey & (so far) this poll. The only way I can see to achieve that would be to email all members with gen-3 cars & appeal to them to respond if they suffered a failure. That would reach inactive members & others who haven't seen this thread.

Other questions that could be asked include towing (none/light/heavy/not known-prior owners) & driving style (gentle/moderate/harsh/not known).

. . . . . from just 10 reports, most of these were 3.5l 4sp TJs & failed between 120 & 155000kms.



lol My TJ is at 126,000 km. Any second now . . . . . SNAP, CLUNK, SPROINGGGG, etc. lol

Truth is, there is nothing you can do about it. Cars break, end of story. Any time you spend on worrying about it is time wasted.
Fix or junk will be my question, and then look for a manual Magna. lol But they are not perfect either. Taxi? Bus? Bicycle?

The only way I can see to achieve that would be to email all members with gen-3 cars & appeal to them to respond if they suffered a failure. That would reach inactive members & others who haven't seen this thread.
Hmm, would be an interesting survey, but could be a bit intrusive.


Truth is, there is nothing you can do about it. Cars break, end of story. Any time you spend on worrying about it is time wasted.
Well, but we can be informed without necessarily being worried. For me this is about understanding (if a pattern emerges), what mileage this happens at and whether regular servicing or a cooler makes a difference.

Wow, I notice that of the 7 failures so far, 3 happened despite regular servicing and 2 despite having a cooler fitted.

Wow, I notice that of the 7 failures so far, 3 happened despite regular servicing and 2 despite having a cooler fitted.

Metal springs break from poor manufacturing processes or metal fatigue. Fresh fluid and more stable operating temperatures would have no effect on the wave spring. That's not to say that the rest of the gearbox won't benefit from them though.

On the topic of failing transmissions. Mitsubishi has decided to drop the 10 year engine/drivetrain warranty because only 1.5% (from memory) of customers took it up as it is non-transferrable (http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/139E0C0C406E847BCA257A84002217AB) and will affect all MY13 models.

I would be more interested in finding out how many people clock up over 200,000 km with the 4 speed transmission WITHOUT having the wave spring break on them, without concern for it being FWD or AWD, or model . . . .

Maybe add this to the poll?

I have a KH Verada, done 240,000 no problems, but its does flare a bit going from 4th to 3rd

Okay, so apparently if you want a reliable car, you should buy one with over 250,000kms on it :P

I think the significant bit of info out of the poll so far is that 3 cars were fully serviced and 2 even had a cooler fitted. That's out of a total of 10 cars.
For me if that trend continues then that indicates that the failure is not due to poor quality ATF.
We already know, anecdotally, that this failure only happens to a small number of the cars so, in the absense of any ither plausible cause, it's pointing to a wave spring defect - manufacturing fault or design fault.

But not enough responses yet to draw any conclusions.

I really want to go on a VW Golf forum and do similar poll: "When did your DSG break?"

I think I could get a lot more responses, and a lot more <50,000 in particular...

I think the significant bit of info out of the poll so far is that 3 cars were fully serviced and 2 even had a cooler fitted. That's out of a total of 10 cars.
For me if that trend continues then that indicates that the failure is not due to poor quality ATF.
We already know, anecdotally, that this failure only happens to a small number of the cars so, in the absense of any ither plausible cause, it's pointing to a wave spring defect - manufacturing fault or design fault.

But not enough responses yet to draw any conclusions.

The only conclusion that can be drawn is that they fail, and although you can take steps to prevent it, or see the early warning signs, there is nothing you can do to "stop" it from happening.

210,000 and still no break.

Driving on a busy Adelaide road on Saturday Jan 6 2013,, my 2000 TJ Magna suddenly lost all drive. It was a very dangerous situation for me and other road users. I had no idea until told by the RAA mechanic who gave roadside assistance and arranged a tow, that this was a common problem with Magnas. How come nobody has sued Mitsubishi?? They should have done a recall.
This is the third Magna I have owned and have had it since new with regular servicing. It had the 180,000 Km service in October 2012, only two months ago.
Should I get it repaired (how much) or send it to the wreckers (shame because it is in otherwise good condition) seeing the vehicle is now only worth around $2K.
The RAA mechanic said that the probable cause was the breaking of the wave spring in the transmission. He said he had previously worked at a Mitsubishi dealership and had seen numerous cases of the transmissions failing in Magnas due to this problem.

How come nobody has sued Mitsubishi?? They should have done a recall.

Good luck with that, sue them for what? A recall on a sporadic transmission fault that isnt an immediate safety issue? lol

Driving on a busy Adelaide road on Saturday Jan 6 2013,, my 2000 TJ Magna suddenly lost all drive. It was a very dangerous situation for me and other road users. I had no idea until told by the RAA mechanic who gave roadside assistance and arranged a tow, that this was a common problem with Magnas. How come nobody has sued Mitsubishi?? They should have done a recall.
This is the third Magna I have owned and have had it since new with regular servicing. It had the 180,000 Km service in October 2012, only two months ago.
Should I get it repaired (how much) or send it to the wreckers (shame because it is in otherwise good condition) seeing the vehicle is now only worth around $2K.
The RAA mechanic said that the probable cause was the breaking of the wave spring in the transmission. He said he had previously worked at a Mitsubishi dealership and had seen numerous cases of the transmissions failing in Magnas due to this problem.

It's not a common problem. Only a small percentage of Magnas break the wave spring. The poll should have another option, like "no problems yet."

If it is the wave spring, it's probably caused by metal fatigue, and is unrelated to servicing. More linked to hot/cold cycles, and km travelled.

Other makes have auto box failures too, Magnas are not unique in this.

With a broken gearbox, a TJ is worth nothing. Get it fixed, and sell the car if you no longer think it is infallible.

Go ahead and sue Mitsu. Good luck.

I own two third gens with 4 speed auto boxes. If one breaks, I will get it fixed and not get hysterical about it. Life has it's little disappointments.

Bullshit max. Temp fluctuations have a huge effect and most trans specialists will tell you this

The threat of sudden wave spring failure, or "SWF" as I like to call it, is pretty scary actually.
If it happened at the wrong moment could be very dangerous.

Well even though this poll is not at all scientific, it's still interesting to note the trend it currently shows.
It seems the incidence increases from over 50,000k's rapidly up to about 180, then drops sharply.
Based on this then I'd say my KH is going to run forever while my KL will be fine for about the next year and then who knows?

Er, but still not enough data to form any meaningful conclusions.

The threat of sudden wave spring failure, or "SWF" as I like to call it, is pretty scary actually.
If it happened at the wrong moment could be very dangerous.


There are a million and one scenarios for points of failure on the road, you just hope that it doesnt happen to you. Luckily the law of averages is on your side. Current VAG cars equipped with DSG gearboxes are suffering far worse failures than the magna auto boxes. Its not unusual to hear of complete drive loss when driving along normally.

You dont see VAG owners chasing after anyone like a witch to a stake...

Should you not have included an option for people who have not had a wave spring failure?
And possibly one for over100,000km and one for over 200,000km etc

You dont see VAG owners chasing after anyone like a witch to a stake...

But DSG owners should be, its not at all uncommon for them to fail within 20,000kms

Sorry it shows nothing, you all assume that your trans stops and the wave spring is to blame.

Have any of you actually seen these bits of broken spring, do you know this was not caused by the planetary gears not coming lose, the valve body cracking, the oil pump letting go, the torque converter breaking the oil pump. These are all other common causes of transmission failure

Unfortunately as a transmission is run by fluid pressure, it is a risk in any car. Dont like, buy a manual and hope your clutch does not shred itself.

For pity sake, what happens if the fuel pump shits itself and the car stalls, the CAS dies and car stalls. So many things can cause a car to stop, if you are in a situation of danger then you are not driving properly as you should ALWAYS allow enough time in ANY car for other cars to avoid you if something goes wrong, is basic driving 101.

Yep, got to agree with Mal. Cars can mess their nappies for any number of reasons. Any mechanic, NRMA or tow truck driver who says "It's a Magna, wave spring must have broken" must have X-ray eyes.
No car is 100% reliable 100% of the time, even new ones. Been reading about the problems some owners have with their Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ. They didn't invent tow trucks and flatbeds for nothing. lol

If you are worried about your car breaking down while driving it *GASP, SHOCK, HORROR, PANICKkK!!*, just make sure you have your mobile phone, the number of a towing company, and a spare few hundred dollars on you when you go out. Works for me. lol

. Been reading about the problems some owners have with their Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ

Moreso the foolish people buying a first generation car with a brand new engine ;)

Should you not have included an option for people who have not had a wave spring failure?
And possibly one for over100,000km and one for over 200,000km etc
Ah yes, you're correct. Probably needs a few extra options, including model, driving style and so on. My understanding is that SWF is a very rare event.
Really, the poll is not showing us anything useful at the moment due to the very small number of responses. Hopefully people will add to it over time.

Hopefully people will add to it over time.

You are hoping more people will have their gearbox self destruct? Gosh! The fewer responses the better, I say! lol

You are hoping more people will have their gearbox self destruct? Gosh! The fewer responses the better, I say! lol

Hehe lol

maybe a poll to show how many k's everyone got out of their car before gearbox failure? my KH has done 245,000 and no problems, just wish it would change gears sooner then it does