Hi all,

I have looked around the net and cant find anything solid... I know the Ralliart has LSD, but am I correct to understand only from the TL and onwards did the VRX have LSD?
I just purchased a TJ VRX and I understand it has an exhaust system, remapped ECU and a modified Cam. Is that the only mechanical differences?

Cheers

The ONLY FWD Magna to have a LSD was the manual Ralliart.

Only the ralliart in manual guise came with LSD standard.

Oh, I read something about the TL getting it... guess it never happened or they were misinformed! Thanks for the replies :)

And it's a great one too!

From Ralliart Magna number 15 owner

Thanks for rubbing that in my face haha

I just purchased a TJ VRX and I understand it has an exhaust system, remapped ECU and a modified Cam. Is that the only mechanical differences?

Ignoring the Ralliarts, all 6G74s from H series to W series had the same ECU maps. My understanding is that up to around 2001 all 6G74s were fitted with #4 cams; after that they were fitted with #6 cams (#6s being better than #4s) except for the Ralliarts (which were fitted with #7 cams).

are those cam no. stamped on the cams ,do you know did they have more duration or lift???

Oh, I have been misinformed then! Are there any mechanical differences at all? Brakes, exhaust etc...
I thought having VR-X written on the engine cover actually meant something :S

VR-X has same brakes as base. Ralliart has bigger brakes front and rear.

VR-X has same exhaust as base, but with a free flowing rear muffler which gives gains of ~8kw. The engine itself is the same as the late model TJs and TLs afaik.

Different rear exhaust gives such gains? I thought the struts would be stiffer as a minimum...

Different rear exhaust gives such gains? I thought the struts would be stiffer as a minimum...

Stiffer struts? It sits 10mm lower with different springs. Some TLs got the ralliart Koni suspension. I believe it was the TL VR limited edition.

The standard exhaust is extremely restrictive, it is a triple flow type meaning exhaust gases have to back up before exiting. The free flowing muffler is just a straight through type. So yes the gain is pretty good

Oh, well thats something then! I guess some new shocks might be a worthy upgrade then...
I still think aesthetically it could do with a bit of lowering, though the front kit sits quite low already. As it is, I had to jack it up from the side.
It is nice to know I can say that my VR-X is quicker than a standard magna, even if only just :)

My understanding is that up to around 2001 all 6G74s were fitted with #4 cams; after that they were fitted with #6 cams (#6s being better than #4s) except for the Ralliarts (which were fitted with #7 cams).


So my series 1 VR-X has different cams to a series 2 as mine was a late 2000 build? Interesting, never knew that!

Oh, well thats something then! I guess some new shocks might be a worthy upgrade then...
I still think aesthetically it could do with a bit of lowering, though the front kit sits quite low already. As it is, I had to jack it up from the side.
Lowering my VR-X was the best modification I did to it. Looks better, and if you pick the right springs and shocks, you'll find a nice improvement in handling. I even preferred the ride comfort post-lowering compared to stock suspension.

8kw is a good gain, although would've been good if they spent a bit less on aesthetics and bit more on performance.

On a side note, does anyone know where on the cam the number is stamped? Can it be seen by removing the rocker cover?

I'm still confused if my cams would be TJ or TJ-2:
manual window winders
non tip auto
digital gluster
mandrel exhaust
no idea about cams
build date: 05 '02

Any other way of checking which cams without physically looking?

Non-tiptronic auto means you have a TJ Series 1 or MY02.

To my knowledge, all TJS2's had the #6 cams bumping the power up to 155kw's so I'd believe you have the 150kw version of the 6G74.

However, this many years on, you'll find that the 5kw or so difference would be much less due to wear. Engines loose power as they wear down, unless modified, I highly doubt there are many 6G74's driving around with still the same power as they had when they were rolled off the factory floor.

If in doubt, pull off your dizzy and look for the number on the cams.

As for the range of 2000 onwards Sports/VRX's, to my knowledge they ALL came with 163kw's of power from the factory. When they were originally released, that's what made them superior over the standard magna's.

Lowering my VR-X was the best modification I did to it. Looks better, and if you pick the right springs and shocks, you'll find a nice improvement in handling. I even preferred the ride comfort post-lowering compared to stock suspension.

Did you have problems with gutters and speed humps? Im assuming you put lows (30mm drop)?

are those cam no. stamped on the cams
Yes, on the opposite end to the sprocket.


do you know did they have more duration or lift???
Have no details, sorry.

Did you have problems with gutters and speed humps? Im assuming you put lows (30mm drop)?
With King springs, Lows are a 45mm drop, and Low SP are a 30mm drop. I went the 45mm drop.

Never had problems with speed bumps. As long as you take them slowly, you can drive straight up and down them without drama. There's not a lot of suspension travel though, so it's pretty easy to hit the bump stops going over a speed bump even when going slow.

Driveways were fine. Just take them slowly and at an angle. I did that before I had the car lowered so it didn't really affect things. It's inevitable that you'll scrape on a few driveways here and there, but it's not bad. I wouldn't go any lower though.

With King springs, Lows are a 45mm drop, and Low SP are a 30mm drop. I went the 45mm drop.

Never had problems with speed bumps. As long as you take them slowly, you can drive straight up and down them without drama. There's not a lot of suspension travel though, so it's pretty easy to hit the bump stops going over a speed bump even when going slow.

Driveways were fine. Just take them slowly and at an angle. I did that before I had the car lowered so it didn't really affect things. It's inevitable that you'll scrape on a few driveways here and there, but it's not bad. I wouldn't go any lower though.

im sure ive asked you this before but did you have lows all round? did the front have SL? i found my TE sat even with sl front and low rear

With King springs, Lows are a 45mm drop, and Low SP are a 30mm drop. I went the 45mm drop.

Never had problems with speed bumps. As long as you take them slowly, you can drive straight up and down them without drama. There's not a lot of suspension travel though, so it's pretty easy to hit the bump stops going over a speed bump even when going slow.

Driveways were fine. Just take them slowly and at an angle. I did that before I had the car lowered so it didn't really affect things. It's inevitable that you'll scrape on a few driveways here and there, but it's not bad. I wouldn't go any lower though.

Oh, I thought it was low and super low. Well I thought Id go for the minimum drop not to have too many issues. You know those concrete blocks bolted down at the end of parking spots... could the front bar get over that? They are what Im most afraid of... Im thinking, I forget to take care once and its all over :| Not at all afraid of scraping the bottom, its hitting the front that Ill be nervous about!

Non-tiptronic auto means you have a TJ Series 1 or MY02.

To my knowledge, all TJS2's had the #6 cams bumping the power up to 155kw's so I'd believe you have the 150kw version of the 6G74.

However, this many years on, you'll find that the 5kw or so difference would be much less due to wear. Engines loose power as they wear down, unless modified, I highly doubt there are many 6G74's driving around with still the same power as they had when they were rolled off the factory floor.

If in doubt, pull off your dizzy and look for the number on the cams.

As for the range of 2000 onwards Sports/VRX's, to my knowledge they ALL came with 163kw's of power from the factory. When they were originally released, that's what made them superior over the standard magna's.

Thanks PI... I think your right, not what I wanted to hear though :/
That just seals the deal, definitely getting 380 cams now.

I would be surprised if my engine has dropped more than a percent or two from factory... uses not a drop of oil over 10,000k services, no smoke, I think it's holding compression well. Where would you suggest the loss of power would come from?

Back on topic... Just swapped over the stock rear muffler for a VRX one and the pipes were different. They were both 2 1/4 but the exec bends were somewhere between mandrel and press bends whereas the VRX were genuine mandrel bends. Subtle but definitely different pipes (both were genuine factory Mitsi units).

Mine was a TJ1 and had the #6 cams. Its a very grey area. Mine was a september 2002 build IIRC

Engines typically make maximum output after 10,000-15,000 kms when run-in.

Engines with a lot of K's typically start losing output as parts become worn. Rings and bore wear contribute to power loss. With a well maintained engine i agree that 5kw is a typical power loss on high ks 6 cylinder motor

Oh, I thought it was low and super low. Well I thought Id go for the minimum drop not to have too many issues. You know those concrete blocks bolted down at the end of parking spots... could the front bar get over that? They are what Im most afraid of... Im thinking, I forget to take care once and its all over :| Not at all afraid of scraping the bottom, its hitting the front that Ill be nervous about!
Yeah, at 'Low' height, the front end scraped on a lot of them. The back bar has much more clearance so I always reversed into parks. Never scraped a concrete stop when reverse parked :)

Yeah, at 'Low' height, the front end scraped on a lot of them. The back bar has much more clearance so I always reversed into parks. Never scraped a concrete stop when reverse parked :)

I like the sound of that! I am generally a reverse parker anyway, specially having come from another mitsubishi with its legendary craphouse turning circle :)

Thanks for all your help!

Thanks PI... I think your right, not what I wanted to hear though :/
That just seals the deal, definitely getting 380 cams now.

I would be surprised if my engine has dropped more than a percent or two from factory... uses not a drop of oil over 10,000k services, no smoke, I think it's holding compression well. Where would you suggest the loss of power would come from?

Back on topic... Just swapped over the stock rear muffler for a VRX one and the pipes were different. They were both 2 1/4 but the exec bends were somewhere between mandrel and press bends whereas the VRX were genuine mandrel bends. Subtle but definitely different pipes (both were genuine factory Mitsi units).

All magna factory pipes are press bent and tj should be 2.5inch....

All magna factory pipes are press bent and tj should be 2.5inch....

Pretty sure all stock pipework is mandrel bent...

Mine was a TJ1 and had the #6 cams. Its a very grey area. Mine was a september 2002 build IIRC

Engines typically make maximum output after 10,000-15,000 kms when run-in.

Engines with a lot of K's typically start losing output as parts become worn. Rings and bore wear contribute to power loss. With a well maintained engine i agree that 5kw is a typical power loss on high ks 6 cylinder motor

When you say yours was a TJ-1 is that because it had a s-1 auto box? Is there another way to tell because build dates seem to mean little for some reason
Also re checking cam number MagnaPI suggested pulling the dizzy out, would that be the easiest way?
Cheers

Edit: Yep I would call them mandrel bends but the VRX bends looked almost seamless with zero pipe distortion on bends wheres stock pipe was maybe 5% flattened around corners with some sharper edges near bends. Nothing like old press bends though.
Pipes measured 56mm or 2.205 inches external - near enough to 2 1/4. Pipes flared slightly at flange point to to about 60mm internal.
Someone go measure one and back me up here!

Pretty sure all stock pipework is mandrel bent...

But it becomes like 15% thinner in the bends?

From Wikipedia:
"The 3.5-Litre was slightly modified giving it an initial power output of 150 kW (201 hp), increased to 155 kW (208 hp) - through a mildly higher compression ratio a Karman Vortex airflow meter - at the launch of a TJ series II."

What the? I thought everyone said it was just cams and muffler taking it from 150 - 163kw? I'm going to check my AFM...

Why would you quote Wikipedia, anyone could have written that...

Why would you quote Wikipedia, anyone could have written that...

^ what he said

Its pretty obvious if its a series 1, series two or inbetween the two by looking at the features on the car.

When you say yours was a TJ-1 is that because it had a s-1 auto box? Is there another way to tell because build dates seem to mean little for some reason
Also re checking cam number MagnaPI suggested pulling the dizzy out, would that be the easiest way?
Cheers



Auto transmission is one giveaway, but some S1.5 cars also got the old style 4sp.

There is also the digital display that moved from the dash top to the instrument cluster. That happened in the s2. The aircon controls were also changed

Why would you quote Wikipedia, anyone could have written that...

I'm not saying it's gospel, people get quoted on here all the time and they're just 'anyones' too, just quoting it out of interest... hard to know what to believe. I've heard a few different stories coming out of the AMC. Some say ECU was remapped some say no, I have heard the compression increase one before.

"Its pretty obvious if its a series 1, series two or inbetween the two by looking at the features on the car."

Yea I know Hayden... just trying to determine what power output I have, it's a bit frustrating. Maybe Steve Knight would know the exact order/specs for 3rd gens, I remember reading that he helped engineer them?¿

Another thread going around in all directions from the OP's question.....

To sum up

S1, 1.5 and 2 all got the same auto box, VRX and Sports got 5sp auto, others got the 4sp auto (I am not going to go into the Verada models here). The 4sp Auto box was used without filter from late in the TH series.

ALL TJ got the #6 cams
ALL had the same comp ratios
From the maps I have looked at (and believe me I have looked at many as have others) they all had the same maps
Only the Ralliart Manual had the LSD